I Pissed Off a Gen Y Feminist
“All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.”
Arthur Schopenhauer, German Philosopher
With my latest post How to Stimulate Demand in a Relationship Recession, I made Mary Lingwall of Austin, Texas really angry. Check out her article here: Things That Piss Me Off: Relating Sexual Interactions to Economic Phenomena
Mary demands that I “shut the hell up.” While I can’t offer that, I will happily welcome a healthy debate. In the four months since I started Hooking Up Smart, I’ve actually been a little surprised by the lack of controversy. After all, I’m addressing head on questions about sexuality and relationships, and some of my views are not, er, shall we say, PC with the Gen Y Feminist crowd. So I thought it might be useful for me to clarify my views and respond to Mary’s objections.
I write Hooking Up Smart to address the rampant dissatisfaction among many young women with regard to their sex lives and their relationships. Having heard many stories of women feeling discouraged, even depressed about their experiences hooking up, I try to offer support, including my thoughts on how to best navigate the realities of the hookup culture while remaining true to yourself. (The About page of HUS includes my Mission Statement, which explicitly addresses the concerns of women who would like to be in a relationship.)
If you don’t want a relationship, and casual sex meets your needs, that’s cool. (In fact, Mary mentions at the top of her post that HUS is one of her favorite blogs, yay.) If what you want is casual sex it’s all good, because it’s easy to obtain, and a lot less time-consuming than a relationship. But if you want to have relationship sex, then your hooking up behavior probably shouldn’t look exactly like the girl’s who wants nothing to do with commitment. That’s why this blog is called Hooking Up Smart, rather than Don’t Hook Up.
Here are my responses to Mary’s specific objections:
1. “I am a young, fairly respectable girl, who could be okay with the possibility of being in some sort of relationship at some future point in my life. Wouldn’t this post inspire a girl like me? Hell no.”
I’m uncomfortable with the connotation of respectable in this case. The only respect I care about is the respect you have for yourself. I support your right to enjoy your body and do with it whatever feels right for you.
2. Mary claims that there are two distinct groups of guys: those who are only looking for No Strings Attached sex, and those who are looking for the comfort and stability of a relationship.
That is simply not the case. Think about it:
- Hooking up casually is the way most romantic relationships begin. While that happens only 12% of the time, it is still the primary pathway to relationships.
- A guy initially looking for casual sex can develop feelings for a girl and form an attachment.
- Guys experience enormous peer pressure to keep it casual and refrain from getting “whipped” by one girl. So a guy who might prefer to have sex in the context of a relationship must brace himself for the disapproval of his buddies. I have heard many accounts of relationships that ended early because the guy couldn’t tolerate the constant ridicule from his peers.
- Guys change their preferences at different times. A guy who has been having a lot of casual sex may tire of the hookup scene, while a guy who has just come out of a long-term relationship may want nothing but casual sex for the foreseeable future.
3. Mary states that “decent people that fit well into you life are few and far between” and that casual sex is the cure for being horny. “Safe casual sex satisfies a valid need in the lives of thousands of men and women.”
I agree. Those men and women are probably not reading, or needing, Hooking Up Smart.
- I’m reaching out to women who are having casual sex when what they really want is to have sex with someone who loves them.
- I’m speaking to women who aren’t having any sex because all the guys who pursue them treat them disrespectfully, drunkenly pressing up against them in a bar and saying things like, “You’re hot. You have nice tits.”
- I’m trying to support young women who hook up with one guy for a while and develop feelings for him, only to learn that he doesn’t want anything serious with anyone right now.
Because that’s the norm. That is what the research shows. (See Sources). Casual sex is the cure for being horny, but it doesn’t address the longing for someone “decent” in your life.
4. Mary is offended by my suggestion that relationships will continue to be in short supply until women reduce the availability of sex in the marketplace.
“I say shut the hell up. Has she ever stopped to wonder why there is casual sex? Perhaps it is because not all women are looking for a long term relationship!!!! …relationships by and large are not that great.”
That’s Mary’s experience, and that’s fair enough. But Mary does not speak for the majority of women. The vast majority of women prefer sex within the context of a relationship. No one is saying they should feel that way. Women are saying that is what they want. And they can’t have it. It’s not available because men no longer need to offer anything at all in order to get access to sex. Not even kindness and respect.
5. Mary is incensed by my likening women to a luxury product that will be “marketed.”
“No one should have to sell themselves in order to gain love.”
I agree. I am not suggesting that women sell themselves. I am suggesting that women understand their own worth and not give themselves away to an unworthy douche.
“Love is not what happens when you doll yourself up and browbeat a cute boy into submission and longing.”
Damn. That’s too bad, cuz that sounds really hot. And I believe guys think so too. (See Bitchslap That Dude to Make Him Heel.)
6. The title of Mary’s post: Things That Piss Me Off: Relating Sexual Interactions to Economic Phenomena
Using “economic” terms to discuss other topics, including relationships, is nothing new. Economics is the study of the production, distribution and consumption of goods and services. It includes the study of transactions between parties. A transaction is defined as “a communication between two people that influences and affects both of them.”
Here are some other relationship terms that are derived from the realm of economic transactions:
- Do not sell yourself short.
- You are precious to me.
- He is not worth crying over.
- You are the whole package.
- He’s a really classy guy.
- I’d hit that [bid].
- He is a diamond in the rough.
- He has an alibi, but I’m not buying it.
- She had a boyfriend, but now she’s back on the market.
7. “Maybe you do want to be a conniving, manipulative bitch who uses your sexuality in order to control others, in which case this is a nice how-to guide.”
Hooking Up Smart is not about using your sexuality to control others. It’s about you being in control of your own sexuality.
- It’s about taking the time to be thoughtful about what you want, and thinking strategically so that you are not always undermining your own objectives.
- It’s about enjoying your sexuality, and engaging in sex when it feels right. It’s about feeling good about yourself and your choices.
- It’s about avoiding random sex with some unworthy dude if it is going to make you feel like crap afterwards.
Young women today often express guilt that they feel regretful after casual sex; they think something is wrong with them if they can’t experience sex like a guy. Women and men are so dramatically different, chemically and hormonally speaking, that it’s absurd to think we would experience sex the same way. What’s fantastic is that men and women complement each other; their differences are exciting.
What I find most disturbing is that it is not guys who are making women feel guilty. Guys understand that some girls are DTF and some girls aren’t. No, it’s women who are pitting themselves against one another. That’s crazy! I’m not telling you not to have casual sex. I’m telling you not to do something if it makes you feel like shit. And no woman should be telling another woman that she is uncool if she chooses to deny a stranger access to her body.
I appreciate Mary’s feedback. It’s straight from the heart, and it’s important for me to hear. I want to know what you’re thinking. I want you to tell me when you think I’m out of line. We’ll discuss it. So?
Note: Source for above pie chart is Moi.
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This is awesome. It definitely makes me rethink using some of the more angry language I use.. my page has, until now, only been read by my circle of friends and it is written for that audience. But this is really amazing. I enjoy being a part of the dialogue and I thoroughly respect your opinions and I honestly do love you blog.. I read it everyday, in fact.
Thank you for responding to my post!!
I am so happy you commented, Mary! I'll probably write other stuff that annoys you from time to time, and you should always call me out on it! The best thing about blogging is the conversations, and I appreciate your initiating a meaningful one.
i'm just an observer. intelligent debate like this makes me happy. kudos to both of you ladies; keep up the good work
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Susan,
That is such great advice. I would love to hear your comments on my future posts. I checked out your website and definitely will be checking back frequently.
What do you think about the fact that he gets on my nerves sometimes though? LOL
Thanks!
http://lasweetpetite.blogspot.com/
Hmmm, just read your latest update. He does seem a little, um, laid back. I would like to shake him and tell him to grow a pair! If you have a gut feeling that you are not attracted, then……you are not attracted. Trust your instincts. It sounds like you need to keep him in the friend zone, unless he can man up, make a plan and make a move. That might make things interesting.
I got this comment in an email from a guy, and I think he makes a valid point. What do you think? Would you treat a guy this way?
“You want to know what men want? I'll tell you what this one wants. I don't claim to represent all men, or even a small majority. But here's what I want. This is the total no-shit truth: I want a girl who will give me a fair chance and not be a hair-trigger. Every single girl I meet always passes judgement and pushes me aside. A couple weeks ago I got stood up by a girl. She hasn't spoken to me since, no explanation, no apology. I can only surmise that this is because I left an angry message because I didn't like being dragged across town for nothing, and the date was HER IDEA. I'm sick of dealing with women who take zero responsibility and act like if I do not act absolutely perfectly and display emotions they don't like (when they are totally in th wrong no less) than I must be gotten rid of post-haste. I'm human, I have emotions and can't act rationally 100% of the time. It's to the point where I simply do not believe a woman will do as she agreed. This is academic anyway since it is rare they ever take the chance and would rather stick with the un-thinking un-caring men they always go out with and SURPRISE things don't get better for them. Rather than make supply and demand problems out of relationships (which I like by the way) attempting to feel out why the men women end up with are low-quality, my advice is to make better choices and to start acting like adults. I don't really want sex, or to hook up. I'm a man, and commitment doesn't scare me at all, it scares women.”
I find this sort of dialog helpful since we have run into similar complaints to our campus programming on “hooking up.”
It's particularly funny to me as I come to this as a Third Wave/Gen X Feminist who has had only positive experiences with both relationships and Friends With Benefits. So the idea that our presentations are sex-negative or promoting old-fashioned sex-role stereotypes just stuns me. But then I may have had the same thoughts when I was that age…hearing what I *thought* was being said, rather than what was being said.
I do find it so confusing, and part of the reason is that feminism means something different to each generation. I came of age in the Betty Friedan/Gloria Steinem era and feel a great debt of gratitude to them. Two “waves” later, I find that I am sometimes viewed as anti-feminism. It's a minefield!
Hello! I found this post through google search. I was interested in what feminists (or maybe just women) think about friends with benefits. I found myself facing a strange situtation. What I thought that I wanted was a boyfriend. But when I found a guy who was a good candidate and who did not keep me guessing about his intention to have me as his girlfriend, I strangely was not interested. Even though my friends with benefits experiences so far have left me feeling unsatisfied I still like the exitment of such neboulos relationships, at least in the beginning. What actually disappoints me is that it doesn't go any further, doesn't develop into anything more. This post helped me to understand what I wanted from relationships and so I am now closer to getting it. Thank you for putting this into right words for me.
Ann, welcome, and thank you so much for commenting! I'm glad you could relate to this post – stop by again and check out the Best Posts page for more about relationships.
Susana,
With the danger of being repetitive, Mary is right in some sense: many girls of today enjoy their sluttiness. If they can handle it emotionally, it can be rewarding. Those girls use their beauty in order to play men…they enjoy the power play and usually dump guys before being dumped. It gives them a sense of power and control that probably they don´t get from work, intellectual or personal development. See how hypersexed most are: it is a psychologuical need, more than a physical one. Even sex with two strangers every week can become boring after some time.
Sensitive men must be alert not to fall into this huge trap.
Marcos, um, let's not use the word sluttiness, OK? Unless you're willing to include man whores, that is. In fairness I have to say that women feel more pressure than ever to have casual sex, because guys won't give them the time of day without it. Research does show that most relationships come about through hooking up, so I think women often perceive it as a necessary step to finding a boyfriend. Of course, hookup culture in the U.S. is probably different than in Brazil…
Susana,
With the danger of being repetitive, Mary is right in some sense: many girls of today enjoy their sluttiness. If they can handle it emotionally, it can be rewarding. Those girls use their beauty in order to play men…they enjoy the power play and usually dump guys before being dumped. It gives them a sense of power and control that probably they don´t get from work, intellectual or personal development. See how hypersexed most are: it is a psychologuical need, more than a physical one. Even sex with two strangers every week can become boring after some time.
Sensitive men must be alert not to fall into this huge trap.
Marcos, um, let's not use the word sluttiness, OK? Unless you're willing to include man whores, that is. In fairness I have to say that women feel more pressure than ever to have casual sex, because guys won't give them the time of day without it. Research does show that most relationships come about through hooking up, so I think women often perceive it as a necessary step to finding a boyfriend. Of course, hookup culture in the U.S. is probably different than in Brazil…