The Man Code Sucks!
Barney and Robin, How I Met Your Mother
Dear Aunt Sue,
Do you think guys and girls can really be friends? Or does it always get messed up? My boyfriend and I recently broke up, and I really miss some of his guy friends. I hung out with them for more than a year, and now it’s like they’re off limits. I especially feel close to this one guy, and I think he feels the same way. We would both like to stay friends, but I’m not sure how it would work. Hanging out alone might be awkward, since we’ve never really spent time together like that. And we’re both pretty sure my ex would veto the whole situation. It just seems like such a stupid waste-we get along really well, so I just don’t understand why we need to give that up just because of my ex.
Also, I’m not gonna lie-he’s hot. I’m not interested in him that way right now, but there has always been kind of a vibe between us, though neither of us has ever talked about it. Also, I don’t know if it matters, but my ex broke up with me. Things haven’t been great for a while, but I wanted to work on it, and I was pretty hurt that he walked. He moved on pretty quickly to hooking up with someone new, so it’s not like he’s sitting at home missing me or anything. What should I do?
Jen
Dear Jen,
I’m glad you wrote, because this is a pretty common question, and I appreciate the opportunity to weigh in, i.e. bitch up a storm on the issue. First, let me clarify, by saying that you have actually asked two separate questions:
- Can guys and girls maintain a platonic friendship, or does it get too complicated in the sense that one person will develop emotional or sexual feelings for the other?
- How legit are the rules prohibiting getting involved with the friend of an ex?
With regard to the first question, my thinking about platonic friendships has evolved over the years. When I was in my teens and 20s I was convinced that it was impossible. Every friendship I ever tried to have with a guy got messed up by sexual tension. I always felt robbed when it got complicated – I didn’t understand why guys had to mess up a good thing by wanting to get physical. Once that drama was exposed, of course, the friendship was never the same and usually ended awkwardly.
Once I got into a long-term committed relationship, I counted many men among my friends. It was easy, though to tell the truth it was always easier when they were also in relationships. Now that I hang out with a lot of married couples, the friendships are really comfortable and devoid of tension. I think my experience is a pretty typical one. When people are in committed relationships, they usually choose not to act on the feelings of attraction that arise toward others. In fact, they neglect and repress those feelings so successfully that sexual tension does not have the opportunity to develop. There is no vibe, because both parties are strictly observing boundaries around commitment and fidelity.
However, when two young people are single and developing a friendship, they are not required to observe any boundaries. They are free to explore any impulses or urges that arise. So it’s very common for one person or the other to feel an attraction, and to communicate those feelings either in subtle or direct ways. If the attraction is mutual, the friendship changes as the relationship shifts. If the attraction is not returned, the friendship still changes, but now there is a problem to work through. Sometimes friendships survive that kind of drama. (In fact, sometimes friendships grow between people who were previously involved, though I must confess I have never had the desire to befriend an ex in that way.) It’s hard, though, and usually the rejected person benefits most from moving on entirely and getting past those feelings.
You mention a vibe with this guy, and that the two of you have talked about wanting to remain friends. I cannot see any reason why you should not become closer as friends. It sounds in this case like there may be a mutual attraction, though you are concerned about the timing; it is probably still too soon. Which brings us to the second question. The utterly ridiculous and absurd Man Code aka Bro Code. Originated by Maxim magazine, the Man Code gives guys permission to act like idiots.
Here is a sampling of rules from the Man Code:
- When questioned by a friend’s girlfriend, you need not and should not provide any information as to his whereabouts. You are even permitted to deny his very existence.
- The minimum amount of time you have to wait for another man is 5 minutes. The maximum is 6 minutes. For a girl, you are required to wait 10 minutes for every point of hotness she scores on the classic 1-10 scale.
- Never allow a telephone conversation with a woman to go on longer than you are able to have sex with her. Keep a stopwatch nearby, and hang up if necessary.
- It is the God-given duty of every man to assist any other man that may be in need of assistance in obtaining every guys’ dream (threesome with two girls).
Haha, rude. But there is one Man Code rule that has seriously taken hold and become law in the culture, and it’s making guys and girls everywhere miserable.
- Under no circumstances may you ever hook up with a friend’s ex.
In fairness, there are obvious examples where observing this rule makes sense:
- A guy who crushed your best friend.
- A guy who behaved badly toward anyone you care about.
- You should be sensitive to the timing of any breakup. A waiting period is the decent thing to do.
But never? Even if it was just a hookup? That’s harsh. I’ve had girls tell me they could never “go there” if their friend had hooked up with a guy randomly two years previously and it didn’t work out. OK, I understand, he hurt her feelings. But maybe that wasn’t totally his fault. Maybe she liked him more than he liked her. And you and he can never hang out and get close because of that ancient history? That’s just plain stupid. She needs to grow up and move on. There is a slightly less extreme variation that requires you to ask permission of said friend. But even that may be too limiting, if your friend is more emotional than rational.
As far as I am concerned, there is never any reason for anyone who has been dumped to seek permission from the dumper for anything.
Jen, you say that your boyfriend broke up with you, and has clearly moved on by hooking up with someone new. He has therefore proved, that He is Just Not Into You at All Anymore, and as such, has no right whatsoever to have an opinion on who you hang out or hook up with. In fact, I would argue that he has a moral obligation to wish the best for you, and if that means seeing you with his good friend, so be it. I just don’t see who gets hurt in that situation. Except his pride, and who gives a shit about that?
Screw the Man Code!
In summary, Jen, I think you an Ex’s friend should feel free to see whether there is the potential for something special between you, without any regard whatsoever for the feelings of Ex. In other words, go for it.
xoxo
Aunt Sue
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I love this post.
a) The man code is hilarious. It is a joke and should be taken as one. There is nothing serious about it except that it is seriously funny.
b) Ahh. Friendship with a guy (when you're a hetro woman and he is a hetro man). I agree that this seems to be easier when everyone is tidily partnered up in committed relationships. Since I am in my late 20s with no plans to partner anytime soon and the sneaking suspicion that I may never partner in a conventional way, I've had to think about being friends with men from the single state that is my present life. As I have gotten older I still don't have many male friends but I have observed two things about this dynamic:
Sometimes I lose a female friend to marriage. She gets married or gets a boyfriend or falls in love and drops off the face of the earth. We used to be THERE for each other. Now she is nowhere to be found. At this point in my life I am a little reluctant to become close friends with women because this has happened to me so many times.
But if a (hetro) male friend gets married or falls in love or gets in a relationship, he might not drop off the face of the earth but his wife/girlfriend/ball-and-chain might wish that I would drop off the face of the earth ASAP. And he has to make the choice between his marriage and our friendship. Her jealousy may be to totally unwarranted but it still leads to a rift somewhere at some point in time. This situation can be equally painful.
But I feel as if the sexual tension issue has slowed now that I am a little bit older. Friendship is very important to me and I wouldn't risk the friendship for a hookup. If there was this unavoidable insurmountable xfiles level tension, we would have a conversation about it. Because we are adults. And because we are good friends and trust one another. Anyone worthy of my friendship is going to be respectful of where I am in my life and visa versa.
So my suggestion is that you try and have a chat with your ex's friend. You can say: “Hey, I miss you. Do you think we can be friends? And by friends, I mean FRIENDS because I'm not looking for anything else at the moment.”
You don't need to say it like THAT (because that would be hella dorky) but maybe through the course of a conversation, you could communicate the same thing in your own language?
Singlutionary, you raise some very good points based on your own experience. It is so true that our friendships can get really complicated when one person gets involved with someone, and issues around jealousy come up. And I love how you describe that things are a bit different now that you are in your late 20s.
Re the Man Code, it is a total joke. But the rule about never ever hooking up with someone's “ex” gets observed to the letter. I just don't think there should be any rules. Every situation is different.
The Man Code maintains an order to the Universe.
Woman should never mess with The Code. Seriously.
Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.
Central to the Code is being Man, not male. Man must not ever put his hands on a woman, unless she likes it rough. Man must not harm a child. Have you seen battered women and abused children. Elder Men must “educate” young bucks on Man behavior. It's Love, Honor, Respect. Man puts Woman first- not last. There are thousands of males that need to have their Man Card revoked. Women must claim the Power of a Woman! It's called Mother Nature for a reason. That's Beauty, Wisdom and Innocence. About the Relationship aspect: if a male doesn't abide by the Code-he is a Princess and not Man. It's Ladies Choice!
The man code stands, don't try and mess with it. Lets say a girl breaks up with a guy then she hits on one of her ex's friends and then those two are friends and she leaves the second guy, where does that leave them? Don't mess with it, women can be real bitches sometimes.
Well, can't they all just deal with issues as they arise? Why have a hard and fast rule? If a woman is jerking two guys around, they should be able to get together and ice her out.
I recently caught up with an old high school friend and we kind of had a talk about this. I didn't realize that his friendship with his best friend had been ruined because of a girl. I guess what happened was they liked the same girl, but the girl liked him more. He ended up dating her unaware of how much his friend liked her. His friend stopped talking to him. Kind of like the Barney/Ted situation that happened with Robin. I never really realized before how much it can affect a friendship but some guys just can't get over it. I mean this was high school and they are just starting to talk again and neither of them remotely know what happened to said girl. It is hard but sometimes friends really do out weigh the potential relationship. In another HIMYM episode Ted was had gotten together with an old ex from college who told him that he couldn't hang out with his friends anymore. His friends didn't like his girlfriend, but he said they had to deal. At the end of the episode he says to Robin “My friends don't have to like my girlfriend, but my girlfriend has to like my friends.” Our friends become our family especially when we don't live near our family. I think, though awful, some of these rules are in place so guys don't end up ruining friendships for a girl because as the last poster said some girls can be real bitches.
The ex-gf doesn't owe her ex-bf anything. However, the friends needs to talk to his bro BEFORE he makes a move on the girl. That shows that he respects the friendship and can be trusted as an honest person. If the ex-bf is truly a friend, he will realize that their relationship has ended and there is now freedom for everyone.
Hi Sabs, thanks for reading HUS and making a comment! I think you're right – the ideal thing would be for the guy to talk to his friend (the ex) and let him know what's up before he makes any kind of moves. I don't think he is required to ask permission, but it does seem respectful to tell the guy straight up what's going on. Good additional point!
The ex-gf doesn't owe her ex-bf anything. However, the friends needs to talk to his bro BEFORE he makes a move on the girl. That shows that he respects the friendship and can be trusted as an honest person. If the ex-bf is truly a friend, he will realize that their relationship has ended and there is now freedom for everyone.
Hi Sabs, thanks for reading HUS and making a comment! I think you're right – the ideal thing would be for the guy to talk to his friend (the ex) and let him know what's up before he makes any kind of moves. I don't think he is required to ask permission, but it does seem respectful to tell the guy straight up what's going on. Good additional point!
I would just like to add that the man code is missquoted in the posts above.
the code includes a headsup or that the man asks for permisson of the ex-bf before attempting anything with the ex-gf.
The point of this is to be able to stay friends and avoid drama from a possibly aquard situation. For example the ex-bf being forced to socialize with the ex-gf.
For us men its just common sense
But for the original poster. Feel free to do whatever you want but the code applies to him. Most likely your mutual friend needs to speak with your ex. If he has a new girlfriend and says “offlimits” when asked he needs to state a legit reason why. If hes being an idiot he can be ignored.