I've made the mistake of dating guy friends a couple of times. and that is just what it's been: a mistake. I've lost people really close to me. I am not saying I wouldn't do it again, but the truth is I'd rather not see their penises. I think i mostly just like the ease of it - they already have gotten to know me, I already trust them and I can tell when they like me which I like.

Edited to Add: I think that over all the ease of it is what makes me fall in crush with the platonic friend and not so much of a sexual spark.

I do think that the sexual spark is the key ingredient when deciding whether to take the relationship to a new place. (Hence, the "Do you want to see his penis?") If you're not feeling it, then it becomes FWB at best, a pity f**k at worst. I remember a post-sex moment with a dear friend - he started telling me about his father's funeral, kissing his father at the wake. If we'd never had sex, that conversation would have been something I would have handled really well, like a true friend. Because we were naked, I felt over-exposed, and in over my head. It ruined our friendship. I just couldn't take the vulnerability plus sex. I behaved very badly after that - used that horrible technique of driving him away with my bitchiness. It's one of the things I remember and regret many years later.

So, yes, there's the ease up front. But boy does it get complicated down the road.

From a guy perspective, the whole platonic thing is a bunch of crap. We want to get into your pants unless you are super fat, super married or our boss (and we really want our job). "Super married"? This means a good solid marriage. Not super? How can you tell? The female is complaining about her spouse to her male "friend". The danger for the spouse, or I guess both partners is that the male part will pounce if the female indicates dissatisfaction with her marriage. He may be a long time in pouncing, but he will do so eventually. The friendship turns into a "emotional affair" followed by the inevitable hookup. So boyz, if your wife has a friend since college or high school and is keeping in touch with them, guess what, it could easily turn into something more. I don't blame either male or female but it happens. I have seen it with co-workers and others.

Oooohhhhhkkkaaaaayyy, Sad Mail. I think I liked you better when you were Psycho Male. I buy it that basically guys want to get into everyone's pants. That's a given. But there's something sad and tawdry about a married person keeping a high school or college friend in reserve for decades, only to turn to them for a pathetic emotional affair at some point. It's just so predictable, so 25th reunion.

Also, friendship dynamics with the opposite sex are completely different once you're married. This post assumes that all parties are single and available to go with the flow. If you're married, and you're having an emotional affair, you need to tend to your relationship, obviously. Emotional affairs are dangerous territory. And by the way -- the newest thing? Your avatar having an affair with another avatar in Second Life, or some other virtual world. I know of one marriage that ended when a wife caught her husband's avatar cheating.

i have a had a lot of married guy friends have a crush on me. I don't buy it that marriage changes things. Sigh. its hard being friends with the opposite (straight) sex.

Yeah I was going to comment on the age grade questions here, but I can't help from snickering a lot too.

"Emotional affairs are dangerous territory. And by the way -- the newest thing? Your avatar having an affair with another avatar in Second Life, or some other virtual world. I know of one marriage that ended when a wife caught her husband's avatar cheating."

OK Why? And how do you explain that to Gramps & Granny? Here's how that conversation went with 'Janey': 'Yes, I caught your precious little Phillip 'The Grand Pizer Wiz' canoodling with that little furry slut in 2nd life!' 'Again!' 'Why yes, they'll All sort of cartoons'. 'Umm, no, fluids were not exchanged'. 'No of course not, she lives in NZ, it's not like she can jump a cab & visit. No, they've never met!' 'What happened then?' 'Well she was splayed out on yes, our dream couch in this lovely fantastically huge bedroom, her tail between her legs wearing nothing but a come hither look, and then...' 'Why are you laughing?' 'No, this is a no fault divorce state & yes the court was sympathetic'. 'No I'm Not Crackers!'

Yeah. Like that. But on the larger topic. I've got to say for once you people have little imagination. Truly. I'm long happily married (again, once the 3 least common descriptors on the WWW), and I find myself doing most of the things mentioned in 1-2 regularly. And sometimes with 'Church ladies', well twice your age actually. And we Both enjoy the experience. (And no, at those ages, no one wants to see anything. Think beef jerky here people. No, really!) You know you're a sterling success when you can get some 80+ YO matron to tell you some of the dirtiest filthiest jokes she knows, tittering all the way. Or when you tell her she double dated with Grant & Sherman when they came through. Quality entertainment people!

So yeah. And I'm with DBetty here. For most of the time, this is the strict MO from most women, even if they're suspecting: "Whatever you do, don’t pretend it isn’t happening [But they DO!] and hope that it will fizzle." Yeah. Number one answer here.

And so yes, "Also, friendship dynamics with the opposite sex are completely different once you're married". It's just a bit more challenging & rewarding to flirt successfully. Even when Mrs. Crabapple last saw 'action' during the Korean conflict. It livens the old birds up. Whenever anyone asks a gaggle of the older crew with me 'what are you talking about?', I say instantly, 'Sex, misery & memory'. It always gets a good laugh & that about covers it.

Me? If I'm at a party even with the wife, I make a beeline for the most interesting people. Many times it's the 'other half' of a lesbian couple, and the wife gets a good chuckle out of that. 'You've hit another same sex couple, right?' So yeah. No shame in my game. It's all entertainment! Now that's the way to party til you drop people. Cheers & Good Luck! 'VJ

I have several guy friends. A lot of them are not interested in dating they just like the attention having female friends.

renu, it sounds like you have great friendships with guys. I'm always happy to have people prove me wrong!

Here is the story!! I am MADLY IN LOVE with my best friend of 3yrs. We were just acquaintances until one night, I became a victim of rape. He went from being an acquaintance to being the only person there for me. Every single person called me a liar, told me I provoked it; including my family. He saw me through post traumatic stress disorder, severe depression, and my suspension from Syracuse University. He risked suspension by letting me move into his dorm room and crash on his futon for 4 months while I went to a community college out there. He gave me shelther, gave me food, paid for my transportaion, he took care of me and I never once asked him to. We literally became inseperable. Everyone would ask us if we were a couple, when we would say no people would say what are you guys waiting for. It's been 3 yrs since and I consider him my angel. He saved my life by being there for me in my time of need and never gave up on me.
He has done the most romantic things for me. I visited him in Boston for the 4th of july weekend and he took me whale watching during sunset, it was magnificant. The on our ride back to the harbor we saw the boston skyline nad fireworks going off in the background (AMAZING!!!). This year when I visited for his birthday weekend I already knew I was crushing hard so I amped up the flirtation by breaking the touch barrier. I pretended not to know how to bowl so he can stand behind me and show me. In the pool (wearing my very very small skimpy red bikini) I play fought with him kept trying to dunk him. He would pick me up and carry me around till he would dunk me. Then he surprised me again!! He blindfolded me, drove me to a secret location, walked me over to our destination, gave me this amazing speech about how he would go there to get away from his rough family life, how he went there and wished for someone that is AMAZING and that gets him, loves him, and would do anything for him. That's when he met me after he told me how amazing he thinks I am he took off the blindfold to revveal the boston skyline. We were standing on a boardwalk at 12am with no one around with this amazing view of the city. I was tearing because of everything he said and all I wanted to do was kiss him. Only one problem HE HAS A GIRLFRIEND!!!
It seems as though we are never single at the same time but it doesnt stop him from doing all these amazing things for me. I got drunk on Halloween and told him that I love him and that his girl is so lucky to have him because I would love to be with him. He told me that he loves me, misses spending every second with me, that he never knew I felt that way fro him. Then he changed the topic on me. We havent talked about it, we are pretending like it never happened. I have no idea if he feels the same way but everyone says he has done all that stuff because he loves me too!! HELP ME!!!!!!

Oh yeah, he loves you. No question. Wow, what a story. The boardwalk at midnight gave me goosebumps. The question is, WHY IS HE BEING SUCH AN IDIOT? The perfect girl for him is right under his nose!

I'm glad you told him how you feel, even if you were drunk :) Obviously, you caught him by surprise, and he needs time to think. The fact that he is in a relationship means that he has an obligation - I'm sure you wouldn't have wanted him to go for it that night if it meant cheating.

Just sit tight, and give this some time. The connection you two have has lasted through a lot. Don't bring it up again. You guys may be pretending it never happened, but both of you know that it did. And I would definitely refrain from flirting, etc. The ball is definitely in his court.

This is SO intense. I wish you all the best.

I hope he does love me as more than just a best friend. I have caught him checking me out a few times and he has verbally told me he finds me attractive. When I was with my ex-bf he never asked about our relationship and when he did he would call him my "gf" because he was "a little sissy". When we would have arguments he would tell me that he isnt worth it to leave him that I deserve better. When they met he barely talked to him, he just hung out in the background observing how we would interact and when I would go spend time with him my ex would hang back and watch how the 2 of us interacted hahah!! Very Awkward to say the least.

He used to tell me everything about every girl he has ever liked, he'd come to me for all types of girl advice. Now that he has a girlfriend I know absolutly nothing about her, what ever I do know comes from his roommate (our mutual best friend). He has told her that his best friend is a female and if she has a problem with that she can keep it moving because I will always be number one. She seems fine with it, in fact, she constantly raves about how much she wants to meet me. Some people think it's because she wants to see who she is up against... I don't know what to think.

Every time I visit him he tells her not to come up because it's best friend weekend and she isn't invited. When he visits the City (NYC) he will see me, lie by tell me he's there for a day, then spend the week with her in L.I. Why does he feel the need to lie to me? No clue!! Why does he feel the need to seperate her and I? No clue!! Now that he knows how I feel he WILL DEFINITLY not be mentioning her to me or make attempts for us to meet. :-/ From what I hear she is little Miss Perfect; she is beautiful, perfect body, used to model, plays softball, is intelligent, majoring in the same thing he is, funny, sweet, not jealous, cooks, gets along great with his family. She is PERFECT grrrr >:-)

But he tells everyone about me. When I meet his family for the first time I had people giving me enormous hugs like "So this is the one you are always talking about", friends of the family, his friends, all the females he's ever talked to know about me. One time he took some girl to the beach at night, water crashing against the rocks, full moon, and instead of being all romantic with her he spent 3 hours telling her about me.

But he has never made a move, he barely even hugs me. We have slept in the same bed numerous of times and never once does he creep onto my side. He barely compliements me, but I have caught him checking me out. He always talks about his bathroom issues with me, like I'm one of the guys. We have sat there and he's checked out other girls (while I sit there agreeing or disagreeing with his selection). There are times he treats me like I am one of the guys. Now he does all this romantic stuff for me, he doesnt tell me about girls as much (not at all lately). I don't really know where he stands.

All I know is that I am in love with him. I have never loved someone as much as I do him. I would do anything for him, I hurt when he hurts, I cry when he cries. I have his initials tattooed on my back (yes he knows)!! I want to spend the rest of my life with him, I want to get married, have kids, and grow old with him. He's the one for me... I just hope that one day he will open up his big brown eyes, see what has always been in front of him, and takes the chance. I know he is afraid it will mess up the friendship because he had a little crush on one of his really really really close female friends (before we became close) he told her how he felt and their friendship fell apart. He may be scared it will happen again (but I already told him I have a monster crush on him all he needs to do is make the move).

Oh man! I want to go find him here in Boston and give him a kick in the butt! I hate, hate, hate it when the gf is "perfect." I can see that you are very frustrated. Obvs, if he isn't talking to her about you and vice versa, he knows there's an emotional component that she wouldn't like. And now, of course, he knows you don't want to hear about her either.

It does sound, though, like he has you in the friend zone in a lot of ways. I have NO IDEA what to predict here. Keep me posted! Fingers crossed.

I will keep you posted :-) I'm fustrated only because I am impatient. I don't want to sit it out on the sidelines waiting for her to mess up so I get a chance to step in the game. Grr!! Maybe I should speed the process along and kidnap her, and ship her to China. I know thats horrible. I need to just see what happens and stop being so impatient. Hopefully, it works in my favor.
Despite how I may feel for him, I am his Best friend and therefore if she makes him happy I will grit my teeth, smile, and bear it.

That is truly the mark of a true friend. Just so you don't feel too badly, I want you to know that I keep a mental list of people I hope will get hit by a bus. No luck yet.

hahaha!! Hmm I'll rent a trolley and we can go kidnap the "perfect" gf and run over people along the way : )

So, As a male who stumbled upon this site, and wandered for some time, I thought I'd go ahead and give you more insight into the male world which has evolved as a result of this generation.

While this is all anecdotal, and I realize as a result of my own personal trends, it's liable to be a result of something about my own personality which leads me to often the same situations, I find it important to note that I'm aware that it's liable to be the case. However, I do believe that it does come quite contrary to what you may personally maintain, and perhaps is either a dated mentality, or a new, perhaps unusual mentality.

I have found over the years, that maintaining, and keeping female platonic relationships not only a damning expertise of mine, but to be the single-most frustrating portion of my personal love life, as well as the single best way to create a void within a person, emotionally. I do believe, that men are not only capable, but find it essential to cultivate platonic relationships with women.

My entire life, I have been oft-plagued by being a friend to anyone, but I noticed quickly that I took to being more understanding toward women than I ever did to men. (Before you even think it, I'm not gay.) This interest isn't merely sexual, although I could have potentially derived some sexual hopes one day, as a result of these friendships. I did find one common thread that brought me back to always seeking female friends: Emotional awareness.

As a male who is not only brutally aware of his emotions, but doesn't repress them (as we are promptly trained to do so.) actively, I found immediately that speaking with women was just more to my tastes, as women better understood me than most men did.

However, this yielded to the most difficult experience of my life, as well as the most fruitful, and painful relationship with any person I'd ever experienced in my life. A girl I met online during the days of Instant messaging being ever so popular, who lived in the same city (And attended the same schools as I) became incredibly close friends. To a point, we spoke daily, often for hours. I never have known a person as well as she, nor do I believe I ever will. (Lest I do actually get married.) She spoke to me of all the men she'd date, everything between them, ranging from attitudes, to the sex, to the things she loved about them. Granted, I fell for her long before, yet believed that I was deeply entrenched into the friend zone, and I aptly never was able to act upon it until nearly a decade later.

After having dating one of my closest friends several years before, and having more or less fallen from touch, we met at a non-profit event I organized, and by the end of the evening, cuddled and kissed for the first time. We became closer as a result, as we're speaking regularly again, yet it created an oddity in our relationship.

But, this situation is all to show that while being with her would have always been ideal, during our friendship, it was never, ever the motivating factor in my own actions. Often, we (men) will lie to each other, thinking that if you're there for her when she's with someone else, you'll be a ripe pick once that other guy messes it all up. And more over, you'll have the advantage of knowing what not to do! This is all a lie. Men may lie to themselves about it, but they're also befriending her because there's simply something that women offer us that men simply can't.

Our relationships among other men function in ways that require us to constantly maintain our status within other men: be this dating beautiful women, having regular sexual relations, benching the most weight, earning the most money, having the most power, knowing the most people. We, as men, are judged almost entirely by what we do, opposed to how we appear (Which seems to be the plague of women, unfortunately.) as thus, we propagate our own misfortune by maintaining these types of relationships amongst other men. However, women offer us a unique, and free platform by which we can grow without the limits of our male regulations.

Naturally, the first question which we would find ourselves asking, is why do these cycles proceed as they do, and how are they actually occurring in our world such that we don't see the evidence of these unique cycles? Naturally, when we're seeking out the woman we want to date, we're innately finding her to be the person wherein we can confide these excess needs, which allow us to better perform in front of the men with which we're associating. However, I find that more often (Again, purely anecdotal, and unsupported), gay men in particular, are drifting toward women and creating these relationships successfully. Much in what I had with my friend, until it evolved unexpectedly.

A major problem with us as men, biologically, is that yes, we're going to be seeing almost any platonic relationship shifting to something romantic or sexual to some extent with any woman we may find attractive. This is an unfortunate consequence of our biological wiring. Thankfully, with some measure of mental training and will, you can eliminate this to some extent, there are ever-present drifts. I remain unsure as to the total effectiveness of this system, but I believe that it yields a very unique male, different in approach toward women, and capable of executing a platonic relationship.

I apologize for the extraordinarily lengthy comment, and the complete lack of concrete or statistical evidence. I do, however, hope that you consider unique situations such as these, as they do often exist, and the perpetual-friend-zone male does exist, and he may become a much more prominent figure over the years, as men continue to break down the archaic structures we had in place over the previous centuries.

Eric, that is an AWESOME comment! I really appreciate your looking around my blog and taking the time to leave such a thoughtful description of your own experience. I love it that your evidence is anecdotal - I really like to hear from individuals about their own views and how they've developed. This is especially true for men, since I'm flying blind to some extent when I talk about what they want. As you have seen in this post. I can only describe what I have observed. I'm not privy to all the locker room talk, or what goes on in the male mind.

I think it is admirable that you have cultivated platonic friendships with women, and that you recognize the emotional awareness benefit. I agree with you here - I also happen to believe that men who are more emotionally available and astute make much better long-term partners. It can be hard finding the right person, because often women reward guys who keep them guessing, and a guy can stay stuck in the friend zone forever, being taken for granted. It sounds like you've had that experience when you describe your expertise as damning and frustrating. In these situations, it can help to assume a bit of that "bad boy" attitude and take control. Confessing your love to a good friend rarely works. I recently wrote a post about this:

How to Stop Falling for the Wrong People
http://www.hookingupsmart.com/2009/11/10/hookin...

I love it that you recently reconnected with that woman and had an opportunity to create some romance. I'm hoping for a happy ending!

You sound like a sensitive and mature man, deserving of a woman with those same qualities.

As promised, here is the most recent update. This weekend, after not speaking for some time due to our hectic schedules, my best friend hits me up to chat. He was on his way to visit his "perfect" girlfriend, but he wasn't pleased about it. He was telling me how he doesn't feel like dealing with her or people in general. He called it a phase, but because I understand him better than he does himself I was able to point out what the issue really is. He goes to school, is a part of a frat, organizes programs and fundraisers, and works two jobs. He rarely ever has time for himself and when he does his girlfriend is always around. He kind of just wants to have "him" time which is completely understandable. So I tell him that once he sees her he will be excited to be there. All he responded was "Doubt it".

Naturally, once he told me all of that I decided it was best to give him some time and not contact him, especially since he was spending the weekend with her. The entire weekend he was texting me non-stop while he was with her. He texted while they were laying down watching t.v and when they were hanging out with her friends. He even texted me when they went on a dinner date, at a restaurant he took me to in Boston. He kept telling me how much the place brought back those memories of our fun filled weekend together with two of our other good friends.

Those are good signs, right? He is with her , yet texting me about things that remind him of previous things we've done. That means he is thinking about me while he is with her. That's good, right? I got really excited thinking there may be hope for me after all but I don't want to read to much into it.

alkdfj;alkdj;alkdas yes he is clearly thinking of you all the time. Any reasonable person would say, surely he will dump her soon and show up at your front door telling you that you're the one. However, WHO KNOWS! Actions count louder than words, including all those text words. You are very smart, though, in the way that you are handling it. Nicely done. Keep up just what you are doing, not saying anything bad about the gf, or anything intended to sway him. He knows how you feel, perhaps he needs a bit of time to extricate himself. You will know soon, I think. P.S. Check out yesterday's post on Falling for Someone Who is Taken. It's not exactly like your situation, but some of the advice definitely applies. Good luck!

You were right he does like me as more than just a best friend. Today , we were talking and he randomly asked me if I ever thought about what it would be like if him and I were in a relationship? I told that we have everything that people search for in a partner. When I asked him if he has ever thought about it? He responded with "Yes I have thought about it. Some times I wonder why we never got together since we are so close, we are so much alike, and we understand each other better than anyone else possibly could." He went on to tell me that he wanted to kiss me on our whale watching trip. He said that he planned that trip thinking it would give him the opportunity and set the mood to do so but he couldn't because I had a boyfriend at the time and he didn't think I liked him. He was afraid he'd ruin our friendship. I told him I felt the same way. I wanted to kiss him then too but punked out because I figured he was not interested in me. We talked for a while about it how we were scared we would lose each other.

I am currently smiling from EAR TO EAR. I haven't been able to stop in fact I think my face is stuck like this hehehe!! We eventually changed the subject and kept conversation going. I don't know what is going to happen next. He is still with his girlfriend and he doesn't have the heart to cheat (nor would I let him). I do not know where this is going to go but I hope now that it is in the open that we both have feelings for each other we can progress to more. I am not pressuring him into making a decision. I want him to figure things out for himself, wether he decides to stay with her or try us out I will be here for him no matter what.

Aw, I love hearing how happy you are! That is truly the best feeling in the world. You are so awesome, willing to be patient, and giving him time and space to figure it out. I do believe you will get what you want in the end, because based on what he has said to you, he does not love her. And he does love you! YAY! Thank you so much for letting me know. I do love a happy ending, so if you two wind up together and you are not a confused chocolate chip anymore, I hope you will post it! xoxox

I met my platonic best friend my freshman year of highschool. We're currently juniors in college now, so it's been a solid seven years. We were friends in highschool, but it wasn't until we moved away to college that we became extremely close (we coincedentally went to the same university). We were both in long-term-dysfunctional relationships with people that did not go to our university or any college for that matter. We were both very lonely living in the dorms and relied heavily on each other for a shoulder to lean on.

I'm going to preface this paragraph by stating how completely oblvious I was to our perfect, platonic relationship. I was completely engaged in my loser boyfriend and wasn't physically attracted to my best friend- so the thought of loving him absolutely never crossed my mind. Looking back, I can't believe I let such a beautiful, budding, romantic relationship slip by.

My best friend and I ate lunch together on campus daily. We went to the gym together. We smoked cigarettes (we have both since quit) for hours bitching to each other about our significant others (I know I know, I'm such an idiot for not realizing). He took me to a baseball game. We even got caught in the rain together walking home from class...

One summer, we were both (well, all if you include both of our significant others) back in our hometown for the summer break (by the way, the four of us were friends together). I got a call from my best friend, and he said he desperately needed to be picked up from the side of the road... Of course I couldn't leave him hanging, so naturally I drove to pick him up and take him home. It turns out he had just gotten in a serious argument with his girlfriend and they "broke up". I listened to him the whole way to his house, and when we got there I said a "see you later" kinda thing. He insisted that I come in and have tea with him since I had no other plans. I agreed, and I continued to listen.

Out of the blue, he leaned in to kiss me. I pulled away, A) because I had a boyfriend and B) I viewed him as a brother... we had never actually touched each other (ie: had never hugged or anything). He smiled, was very cool about it and continued to "tease me", saying things like, "Really? Why don't you try kissing me? I've known you forever, I just want to know what your kisses are like" Suddenly, flashbacks of lunch dates, laughing hysterically, complaining about our sigo's and getting caught in the rain flooded my mind. His remarks certainly didn't help, and next thing I knew we were kissing very passionately.

I made sure that all we did was kiss. I finally had the strength to stand up, exhale, and get the hell out of there. Since that day, this boy has me on a chain. To sum up a lengthy story, he got back together with his crazy ex and I maintained my off and on relationship with my crazy boyfriend. I ended up leaving the university and moving home to go to a community college, so our best friendship was sort of put on the backburner. However, when we'd see each other at parties or whatever we would both light up. One time, while drunk unfortunately, we snuck away to talk and ended up kissing again (JUST KISSING!). He refuses to give me any sign of affection except these random make-out-sessions, but it's always after he pours his heart out or complains about this girl. Besides, the fact that it's kissing and not going anywhere else leads me to believe it's not "booty". Plus, I would really hope that he wouldn't sacrifice all of our therapeutic hang out sessions just to get laid once or twice.

Finally, here's the end of the story. I've seen him a lot more recently than I have in awhile, and we're back to the whole 'we can totally hang out and it's not weird' thing. I finally got my joke of a boyfriend off my back, and I'm in much greater spirits without him. One night, I got super drunk with some of my OTHER guy friends (I really much prefer the company of guys to girls... always have) and admitted my crush. They thought it was hysterical, and I ended up calling my best friend and "proclaimed my love to him". I turn bright red just thinking about it... OMG why would I do that...

Anyway, he now knows, for sure, that I love him. The day after proclaiming my love he invited me to a party. Half of me thinks, huh, maybe he's just trying to keep things on the cool side and continue being friends with me without making things awkward. The other part hopes and prays that he took my drunk dial seriously and may be trying to start some sort of relationship with me. I accepted the invite and brought along a girl friend so it wouldn't be as awkward. We played it cool around each other and conversed as we always would, but when we ended up back at his place my chick friend passed out and once alond we couldn't look each other in the eyes. He told me he broke up with his girlfriend that day... and I ended up passing out right next to him (though nothing happened).

This is such a long post- and I'm sorry. It does feel good getting it off my chest. I just need to know, does he love me too? If so, not that I give a shit at all about our exes, but they would probably murder us if they ever found out (they of course despised our closeness). Lastly, yes we've kissed but it's been brief and it's been a very long time. It's unfortunate because I imagine us finally admitting that we have feelings for one another, but after that I imagine it being incredibly weird and akward. Do we just... date? Kiss? Hold hands? Because he's such a great friend I have such a difficult time imagining us as anything more- but I want it. I feel like the best boyfriend/girlfriend relationships are when they're best friends. We know we're great friends, and he's hands down the best kisser I've ever kissed....

Emery, wow, what a story! I am so glad you shared it. I'll give you my impressions...

1. I LOVE friendship as a foundation for an intimate romantic relationship. It's awesome when a person that you would do anything for becomes something much more. Having both kinds of intimacy is the absolute best, and relatively rare I think.

2. I'm glad you liked kissing him! There is no question in my mind that one of the reasons you were so into it is because of what you feel for him. Any kind of physical contact is so much more intense when you're really feeling it emotionally.

3. It is impossible for me to know what he is feeling, but I think it's interesting that he broke up with his gf the very next day after you drunk dialed him. It doesn't seem likely to be a coincidence.

4. I love it that you told him what you were feeling! I'm a big believer in saying what you need to say. You took a huge risk, and you should not be ashamed or embarrassed about it. Caring deeply for another person is what life is all about. It's perfect if they return your feelings, but either way, it's nothing to be ashamed of. You can tell someone you love them and hold your head high no matter what their response is. Because it's real. How could you fake it, knowing each other for this long?

I have to say I'm glad that you've only taking it as far as kissing so far. Adding sex into the mix would be very complicated. He needs to be totally free of his gf in order to have something real with someone else. As for his gf and your ex, I agree with you - who cares what they think? They are not allowed to stand in the way!

Please, let me know what happens. I've got my fingers crossed for you. Yikes.

xoxo
Susan

OMG I HAVE TO HEAR FROM CONFUSED CHOCOLATE CHIP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


THE SUSpense Is KiLING ME!!

It's kind of like The Office...lol. I loVE THAT SHOW!

Hi Rach, thanks for commenting! Come on over to the new threads, she is giving all kinds of updates in the last few posts! Haha, I'm gonna tell her what you said.

Back by popular demand, just kidding : )
First, let me say YAYYY EMERY!!! We are paddling in the same boat but you are 2 steps ahead of me. Not only have you guys kissed (on multiple occassions) but he even left his gf for you. YAYY!!! Girl it's time to pounce haha!! Seriously, though, I think you were wise not to let it progress physically. The last thing you want is to complicate things far more than they already are. I hope it all works out for you in the end :)

Rach, thank you for your interest in my crazy complicated life. I wish I had more news to share but unfortunately things haven't gone anywhere from the last time I updated. With finals around the corner, we havent had time to really talk or anything. Aside from that I have been dealing with other issues related to my ex, whom will be receiving a bra and some tampons for Christmas since he is such a GIANT PUSSY (excuse my langauge)!!!
I am a little fustrated, I know I need to be patient and wait for things to pan out. At the same time he needs to step his damn game up!! We disclosed that we have feelings for each other, that we have both thought about what it would be like to kiss each other, to be in a realtionship with each other; still no move has been made. I have already sent a picture of my bare ass to him (I was drunk) how much more DIRECT CAN I BE? hahaha!! But it is ok, in order to get what you want you need to put in the work. I normally send him funny Christmas gifts (because of our inside jokes). The last one was diapers lmfao!! The first time he ever had a girl go down he got so excited that after he finished she continued and he ended up peeing on her hahahaha!!! He was so embarassed but it was so hysterical I could not let him lie that down haha!! Anywho, this year I was going to send him a first aid kit with ice packs, lots of superhero bandaids, and lollipops for being a good patient lol!! Over his summer break he went rock climbing fell backwards, the rope got tangled around his leg and had him dangling in mid-air. He hurt his leg pretty badly but luckily it healed up nicely. Thanksgiving break he sprained his ankle. Christmas break is coming so he needs to be prepared!! I also thought it would be cute if I send him a box filled with Hershey Kisses with a note saying "Now you can't say I never kissed you". It's simple, cute, and a flirtatious reminder that I am still interested in him. Kind of like a "WAKE UP CALL". If that doesn't work I may need to invest in Neon signs saying "MAKE YOUR MOVE FOOL!!" Well that's it for now I'll be sure to keep you posted

"I remember a post-sex moment with a dear friend - he started telling me about his father's funeral, kissing his father at the wake. If we'd never had sex, that conversation would have been something I would have handled really well, like a true friend. Because we were naked, I felt over-exposed, and in over my head. It ruined our friendship. I just couldn't take the vulnerability plus sex."

Hi susan, could you extrapolate a bit further on the bit where you "couldn't take the vulnerability plus" bit

Hi Valmont, it was just a sense of being overwhelmed with his need. I remember he was emotionally tortured telling the story - he had kissed his dead father on the lips, and when he pulled away, the makeup came with him, and it really freaked him out. He kind of lost it telling the story, and I felt like I didn't know what to say or how to help. If I had been a platonic friend, I would have hugged him and been nurturing, just like I would act with a woman friend. But because we were involved his vulnerability frightened me a bit. I felt responsible for making him feel better, and I didn't want that responsibility. It felt like he was naked physically, plus naked emotionally. It was too much, I wasn't ready.

I do understand you... it would have scared me away too.however there are a lot of people online who are saying that guys should open up and reveal all their vulnerabilities and communication all their emotions asap, and wear their hearts on their sleeves and that doing other wise (i.e. holding emotions) is "playing games".

Wrong! I disagree! A man who reveals his emotions asap is doomed. I think you've seen me say this before - women want a man who is not afraid to reveal a vulnerability, but he should pace himself. Too much too soon comes off as clingy and needy - the kiss of death. A woman should have to earn intimacy and trust, just as a man should. When a couple becomes intimate, they've already established they have feelings for each other, then he should make it clear he cares. Once the woman is invested, she needs to hear that. But she doesn't want him putting himself in a one-down position. So, for example, he might say, "I'm really into you. Let's hang out again soon." That reveals his interest, with confidence. It's better than, "I had a really nice time. What are you doing tomorrow?" It's all about balance, and timing.

haha,this is really good :)

Thanks, katee! Come back again!