Do Pretty Girls Have it Harder?
If you want to be happy for the rest of your life
Never make a pretty woman your wife
So from my personal point of view
Get an ugly girl to marry you
Jimmy Soul, 1970
Do beautiful women have a harder time finding real love? I bet Jennifer Aniston thinks so. The woman in this photo writes the great blog Live.to.the.point.of.tears, and is the author of Words to Date By, which I posted a few months ago here at HUS. It’s clear that like everyone else, she’s had her share of disappointments and douchebags, though I have a hard time imagining that she doesn’t get and keep whoever the hell she wants.
Conventional wisdom and research provide lots of evidence that good-looking people enjoy many advantages in life. They make friends more easily, get more promotions at work, and presumably have no trouble attracting members of the opposite sex. They are perceived to have a very high mating value.
So why do I know so many beautiful unhappy and lonely women? I know what you’re thinking: Cry Me a River.
To the rest of us, beautiful people are coasting on their looks, getting all sorts of stuff they didn’t have to work for. When I was in middle school, my family moved from New York to LA. In New York, I’d been feisty and outspoken, confident in my smarts and my Irish looks. When I got to LA I realized right away that things were not going to go so well for me there. Where I was short and curvy, with dark hair, the ideal California girl was…well, you know exactly who she was. She was the woman in this photo.
In the end, guys didn’t like me much in high school, but the girls did. I wound up as court jester to the most beautiful, perfect blondes on campus. I was granted a full array of priveleges, such as going over to help them get ready for formal dances, or coordinating the publicity for their various elections. They effortlessly reeled in all the hottest guys and made them boyfriends.
What’s changed? Well, for one thing, in that era guys derived social status from being able to attract and keep a hot girlfriend. They were pretty much the only guys getting regular sex. Today, that’s been turned upside down. In his 2008 book Guyland, Michael Kimmel makes some interesting observations about the way men aged 18-26 view relationships today:
- “Because Guyland is so homosocial, it requires the relentless assertion of heterosexuality.”
- “The guys who appear the most disinterested are the ones who end up being the coolest, and that the girls find most attractive. When women decline sexual advances, they threaten masculinity. That’s why guys like porn so much: the women are compliant.”
- “Sex in Guyland is guys’ sex. Women are welcome to act upon their sexual desires, but guys run the scene. Many young women are biding their time, waiting for the guys to grow up and start acting like men.”
- “If sex were the goal, a guy would have a much better chance of having more (and better) sex if he had a steady girlfriend. Instead, guys hook up to prove something to other guys. The actual experience of sex pales in comparison to the experience of talking about sex.”
For guys, scoring sex becomes the most important goal on any given evening. Therefore, it is important to maximize your chances for success by avoiding girls where the risk of rejection is high. Hooking up with a girl deemed unattractive by your buddies is explained away by your drunkenness, and is vastly preferable to “not getting any.” This leads most guys to pursue whatever woman they feel is most likely to accept their advances.
Beautiful women, expecting to have a high mating value, find themselves targeted by only the most sexually aggressive men. These tend to be men who are extremely good-looking and have a strong track record of hooking up with whomever they want. It is they who have the highest mating value, sexually speaking. If they were interested in a relationship, they would likely target girls of similar attractiveness, but few of them are. Often, very good-looking girls discover that they are only the newest challenge, the most difficult sexual conquest, for a popular guy. As long as guys derive status from “banging bitches” instead of having girlfriends, none of this is likely to change.
This short film, Not Pretty, Really was shown at Sundance in 2006. It’s less than three minutes, so hang in there -- I especially want you to watch the woman who comes on at 1:50. It’s powerful and moving.
Last semester, a very good-looking young woman got the following text on her phone late at night from a frat star she barely knew:
ur so hot i wanna cum on your tits 2nite
When she told me about it, she sounded very much like the woman in this film. She said, “Guys say disgusting things to me when they’re drunk. I wish I could meet someone who wanted to get to know me, someone who would get me.”
What happens as men age and presumably become more interested in having a real relationship?
In researching this question, I discovered that the question of why beautiful women are often perpetually unattached is a very popular one on dating and relationship forum sites, which cater to singles in their 20s and older.
A representative sample of male responses:
“I find pretty women intimidating. I would rather approach a less-attractive woman who might accept my advances.”
“Most men are intimidated by good looks. They think that because she looks good, she must be high maintenance, hard to get, already dating, and snobby. The few men that do approach her are all players who like to play head games just to get into her panties and claim her as a trophy. Some men that date beautiful women know this. They know that in most cases, beautiful women are single, fed up of head games and craving for a real man to approach them and desire them for who they are and not solely for their bodies.”
“Guys don’t want other guys drooling over their girlfriend.”
“Men do not like to approach women that they believe everyone wants.”
“Yes, guys do find it harder to talk to extremely attractive girls. Not intimidation necessarily, but a conviction that they’re just not in her league. Girls need to make themselves approachable. They need to try to initiate things, make eye contact with guys that they like. They should smile and be cute.”
“This girl must have already heard all possible pick-up lines and would not welcome an approach.”
“As far as looks go, “cute” is accessible, “pretty” is inaccessible, and “beautiful”, unattainable. A client of mine used to be a fashion model in New York. She’s smart and she has been around long enough to know it’s her looks that guys are interested in, and she won’t put up with it.”
“Remember in school when the quarterback got the prettiest girl? Believe me, guys remember, and not many of us were the quarterback. Men also have problems with self confidence and when presented with a choice between a cute girl that we have a chance with and a pretty girl that seems like a long shot, we are going to play it safe and go with cute. And relationships also have economics- the more attractive the women is the more resources a guy needs to get the girl- a fancy car, nice house, good job, or at least that how it works in a guys head. You can tell me how true that may be, but even if it’s not, the perception may well be more important then the truth.”
What’s a gorgeous girl to do?
- Bide your time, your day will come.
- Do not allow yourself to be objectified and used as an opportunity for some player to boast about having nailed you.
- Focus on friendships first. A guy who cares for you as a friend is less likely to use you, and more likely to develop real feelings.
- Be approachable, so that nice guys consider taking a chance. When you like a guy, find ways to let him know that he has a shot.
And the rest of us?
- Hey, their loss is our gain. Most relationships today develop from hookups, and if you’re more likely to get the hookup, you have a better shot at the relationship.
- Don’t kid yourself, though. You’re just as likely to be objectified and discussed with his peers the next day. If you want a relationship, be smart about who you have sex with.
- Ditto the rest of the advice: Focus on friendships first. A guy who cares for you as a friend is less likely to use you, and more likely to develop real feelings.
- Be approachable and friendly. And be yourself, because you are beautiful!
The truth is, we all want to be known, men and women alike. We seek short-term validation, but what we really crave is for someone to really see us, and to love what they see. We may get there at different times, we may get kicked to the curb a few times in the process. All of us, the beautiful and the less so, have an equal shot at happiness and real love with the right person.
Related posts:
“Do pretty girls have it harder?” Umm not usually. And not untypically it's certainly a 'two way street'. they're also looking for the 'pretty boys' who like share in some of their characteristics, issues & problems. That's only part of the central problem here.
The other of course is the supreme tragedy that like, they get paid more 'cause they're prettier, hired more often because of it, liked more for this, (yes, resented for it too), given free gifts just for being 'fabulous', and yeah they seemingly & often age better too. So yeah. Just speaking for my short fat slobbo self (and those of my fellow countrymen), I feel for them. I just can't tell you where.
But No, “Do beautiful women have a harder time finding real love? ” Not anymore than anyone else. It's what they're seeking that's often the problem. If they seek to consistently demand a 'premium' of attention/worship/reward/status/riches Just because they're 'beautiful'? They're going to be often disappointed. As are the rest of us who were/are 'lucky' enough to date a few of these 'high bred' wonders. Then we come to realize that no one's ever mentioned to them about possibly adding any 'value added' features to their pretty faces and/or 'banging' bods. Like high intelligence. Or a cultivated interest in the world around them and serious study of some aspect of this. Perhaps a knowledge and participation in the arts. Some real empathy for the suffering that goes on all around us. This is what makes people truly beautiful. It's the cultivation of things concerning beauty & truth & justice. And truly, beauty w/o brains? Is really boring, just as one might suspect. It gets old very fast. Faster than anyone might suspect too.
But yeah we do not often find this in 20 somethings or even 30 somethings, and so much the mores' the pity for it. So I strongly suspect that things 'even out' as we age. The aging beauties slowly discover the rest of the world & become friendly with more the 'normals' or 'mere mortals'. They let their hair down and come to appreciate life more for what it is and their roles in it. That's when real love can blossom for anyone. IMHO. Cheers, 'VJ'
I hear you, VJ, and I expected this response. I know this does happen, beautiful women expecting to be worshipped and adored. But honestly? I personally know at least a dozen young women who are the whole package: Lovely to look at, smart, curious, funny, interesting, generous. And they're all unattached. It strikes me as bizarre. Of course, they're not alone – many young women who would like to be in a relationship are unable to find one, at least a quality one. But it's been my observation that the real knockouts often get only the kind of attention from men that no woman wants (unless she's walking the streets).
This is generational. You and I did not live through this while young. Women under, say 30, are having a different experience. And that age will keep rising, because, graduating college students are bringing hookup culture with them into post-grad life. Hooking up well into the 20s, and even 30s is pushing back dating, relationships, marriage, for better or worse (one guess one where I weigh in on that one).
I agree with you Susan that the hookup culture has hurt this aging gracefully and normalizing things out. I know that a core group of my older single girlfriends feel that they are now being passed over. Many of these girls would be considered beautiful, but they are now competing with the young 20somethings for the 30 to 40 something men. I'm not sure if it evens out as we age anymore because of this hookup culture. Dating is so impossible IMO regardless of how beautiful you are or you think you are.
I have to say I enjoyed this article and especially agree with the above comments. I think dating is hard for everyone whether you are short, tall, chubby, skinny, blonde or brunette. After watching that short film you posted Susan – I definitely agree with the last girl who was tearing up. I see myself as descent looking gal – I know Im not unfortunate looking but I don't consider myself the most beautiful woman in the world either.
I'm a medical student & last year I had a professor who would single me out in front of the class. He would call me America's Next Top Model rather than my name. In class we were learning how to do patient exams and I was always being called to demonstrate how to exam the male genitalia and always being asked about dieases related to the penis. This was on a daily basis and I began to hate going to class – I kept thinking I'm hear to learn so just ignore all the sexual innuendos. I complained every day to my mom that semester. I tried not to draw attention to myself during class like downplaying my dress or sitting further towards the back…really nothing worked. I remember getting dirty looks from other girls in class and the guys really couldn't care much (of course!). That semester was rough and I did not feel pretty really. Its kindof ashame that people thinks its ok to make inappropriate comments to any girl, maybe they think some girls are use it so its ok. Whatever the reason – I agree with what was said in the article about most players are usually up for the challenge with hot girls – so there is no quality whateversoever & most women want the quality despite their own looks. I guess the saying applys- never judge a book by its cover – even if its pretty!
Ugh, it is so frustrating that when the guys are finally ready for something real, there's a crop of young babes in their early 20s! On the other hand, those women are also saying their not getting any quality attention. Someone's gotta get into relationships if we're going to propagate the species…
I think things may get a bit worse before they get better, but the pendulum ALWAYS swings back eventually.
Skanti, nice to meet you, thanks so much for leaving a comment about your own experience. OMG, that professor is such an asshole! That kind of sexual harrassment is inexcusable. You're smart, a serious student, and you're being singled out in the most demeaning way. How could you possibly feel pretty in that setting – it's exactly like the woman in the film.
You also make another interesting point. Women get envious of each other, and that doesn't help. I do hear of women being excluded by other women in the workplace and in social settings, and I believe it's often because they are very attractive. They don't want the competition. All you can do is make friendships where you can, hope another woman will give you a shot even though you are pretty. It's ridiculous! Dissing a pretty woman is not going to make you any prettier, it's really not going to get you any more guys.
You are so right about not judging people by their looks, one way or the other. We all have feelings and emotional needs.
I know you knew I'd have to weigh in on this. To put an evolutionary spin on it, this is a perfect example of how our consistent, innate evolutionary strategies adapt to a changing environment. It's also a disturbing and stark clarification of a basic concept of natural selection: *Evolution doesn't care if you're happy. It cares if you reproduce successfully.*
The cultural value of long term monogamous relationships has gone down very significantly in the last half-century. In and of itself, this is neither good nor bad. Many women have been liberated in significant ways, and women have more choices now than they've ever had, from full time mom to full time career, and they can accomplish pretty much any of them without social stigma. The price for that is that men have adapted to women's new dating strategies.
The uncomfortable truth about very good looking women is that they are still women, and still likely to follow the female dating strategy, which, as you know, often involves occasional cheating. It's just a sad truth — whether they *want* to be high maintenance or not, beautiful women are offered the moon on a regular basis, and if their men are not keeping up with the hundreds of Joneses, eventually, there's a good chance she's going to like one of the offers more than she likes her man.
Men, being slightly smarter than portrayed on sit-coms, realize that keeping beautiful women (especially in the hook-up culture) is very, very difficult, and many of them automatically put beautiful women in the hookup-only category.
The flip side is that very attractive men make lousy long-term partners, on average. The male drive to have sex with lots of women is just as strong in them as any other man, with the notable difference that they really can pretty much have as many women as they want.
Where it gets really nasty is that both beautiful men and women still have an instinctual understanding of their own worth. A ten knows she can date a ten, and let's be honest — fucking a ten is really exciting, even if you happen to be a ten yourself. Since we've bitten the bullet and admitted that looks do matter, we see the conundrum. A ten will feel like she's “settling” if she dates a stable 5 who isn't going to cheat on her. She'll know she could do better, and every new ten that crosses her path will make her question — “Is he the one genuinely nice ten who would be faithful and stable?”
Of course, this isn't to say that all beautiful people are assholes. Clearly, there are beautiful people who are also very nice. But let's be honest, like when we admitted that looks matter. The more beautiful someone is, the more they can have if they want to take it. Mating *is competition* and it's just not in human nature to try not to do as well as you can. We humans also tend to think of ourselves as “special individuals.” You can see it in the video. We all think we're different from the crowd. We think, “Yeah, I'm a ten, but I'm not like all the other tens. I'm nice and caring and wonderful and smart.” We overestimate our own potential for remaining faithful. Women look at the guys who pass them up because they're too pretty and think, “WAIT! I'm not like the other girls!” The thing is, maybe you're not, but guys, like girls, play an ODDS GAME when dating. The odds are not good for dating a ten, either in getting her in the first place, or keeping her. Most men prefer to go after what they know they have a good chance of getting.
It's natural to take it personally, but not accurate. If you look like other beautiful people who hook up all the time and don't make good long term partners, that's what people are going to think you are. They aren't being mean to you personally. They're just playing the odds. Here's a hint, though. If you're genuinely beautiful, find a way to stand out from the other beautiful people. I rarely, if ever, approach beautiful girls at bars, but if I saw a beautiful woman in the science section of the book store, I'd almost certainly approach her. (In other words, if you want people to know you're not a dumb blonde, prove it.)
Haha, Hamby, I knew you'd weigh in, and I had a pretty good idea what you'd say! (I'm just about ready to start finishing your sentences for you.) I'm really glad you said it. What I really like about your perspective is that you set the conundrum up as a problem to be solved. Which is exactly what it is. You point out the need for a specific strategy, and I love it! And the thing is, most beautiful women don't want to be hit on in bars, because those are the guys who will probably send a disgusting text at closing time. But to be approached in the science section of a bookstore? How romantic! (It's also in keeping with my recent post “How to Find a Great Guy”, which says pursue your interests first, and get out as much as you can doing so.)
I also appreciate getting the male point of view. For example, I never thought of this:
“Men, being slightly smarter than portrayed on sit-coms, realize that keeping beautiful women (especially in the hook-up culture) is very, very difficult, and many of them automatically put beautiful women in the hookup-only category.”
Specifically, I hadn't thought about hookup culture making women more difficult to hang onto from a guy's point of view, but it makes total sense.
So thanks.
Oh my god Susan, I'm just scrolling through and I almost didn't recognize myself. Ha! I'm so flattered. Thanks for the shout out, as always. I'll be blogging about this later … have a lot to say on this topic.
bblove, I would LOVE to hear your views on this topic. When I found this pic on your blog I knew I had to use it. Your appearance vs. your sharing in the universal struggles was just too mind-blowing to ignore. BTW, today's post touches on this theme as well. Maybe you're too perfect!
Terrible advice:
What’s a gorgeous girl to do?
•Bide your time, your day will come.
Congratulations, you've hit menopause and will never be a mother.
•Do not allow yourself to be objectified and used as an opportunity for some player to boast about having nailed you.
Femenists are the worst. If you get the feeling the guy is trying to play you, reject him. If you don't get that impression, don't invite it.
•Focus on friendships first. A guy who cares for you as a friend is less likely to use you, and more likely to develop real feelings.
Push a guy who's attracted to you into the friendzone, he'll hate you for life.
•Be approachable, so that nice guys consider taking a chance. When you like a guy, find ways to let him know that he has a shot.
Approachable gorgeous girl? -> Saved for Christ, or STDs.
Here's real advice: When you're in a sexually charged social environment (bar, party, club), be above it all. Have fun being with you're friends, talking to people, joking around. Don't try to fit in with the bright-eyed prey. If you do, there MUST be something wrong with you.
Instead, be open minded to finding a love interest in situations and places where sex doesn't take precedent (grocery store, chamber of commerce event, blockbuster, DMV). If you act conducive to romance when a guy isn't anticipating it, he is more likely to search for a justification of chemistry than reducing you to game.
Hey Dashiell, thanks for commenting. We always appreciate getting the Y chromosome view around here. You make some excellent points, I do have replies:
1. By saying bide your time, I really wasn't thinking years. What I'm saying is that you are going to draw lots of douchebags, and if you are in a hurry to find someone, you are likely to engage in wishful thinking and waste time on an unworthy guy. It can be very, very difficult to tell a good guy from a jerk early on. Jerks have a way of being really attentive and sweet until they score the touchdown (doesn't apply to PUA types, obvs.) So what I mean here is take a deep breath, dial down the anxiety, and let things proceed naturally. But your point is well taken. Women wait too long all the time, and then fertility becomes a major problem. We were designed to procreate by the age of 13, so delaying a full 25 years is very risky.
2. First of all, using the word objectify doesn't signal my political leanings. And as I stated above, women are not very good at getting the feeling a guy is trying to play them. If they were, it wouldn't happen so much. How does one invite a guy to play them? How does one prevent it, or “not invite it?”
3. I'm not suggesting pushing a guy into the friend zone. What I have seen work very well is a situation where the girl is super hot, the guy not as hot. He doesn't make a move, b/c he knows he is not in her league. But he is happy to be part of her circle, her crowd. As she gets to know him, if she likes him (because women select men on a variety of qualities, not just looks) she can signal her interest. The second he thinks he has a reasonable shot he takes it. He can't believe his good fortune. She must work to convince him she really likes him. The end.
4. Re being approachable, see above. You're wrong about beautiful women not being approachable. Guys think that women will only go for a less hot guy if he has money or status. Not true. I've seen girls get really into guys without either, because they looked for and found other qualities in him. Like humor, self-confidence, kindness, intelligence, creativity, loyalty in relationships. Guys don't want to believe this. They think the Beta has no shot. Wrong. Game won't get you anything real. Being real will get you something real. By the way, because casual sex is so readily available, most guys with options are more reluctant to commit. This scarcity of relationship opportunities means that women (even beautiful women) will have to cast their nets wider. Hence the increasingly popular term: Boyfriends are ugly.
Your real advice is right on. I've written about the best way to meet new people (see How to Find a Great Guy) – it's to pursue your own interests, get out of the house as much as possible, maximizing your number of interactions per day. And take that cell phone off your ear. We're on the same page there.
Hey Susana,
I really appreciate your response to my post. I apologize if it had been a little crass. I didn't take time to read more than this article before posting my response to those four points of advice.
To touch on your first response, with regard to waiting, I find it very interesting that you acknowledge the biochemical preconfiguration of women (girls) to be hormonally and reproductively active mid-puberty. This could be the subject of a very interesting article, as I forsee the politicization of 'age of consent' and 'gap between childhood and adulthood' culminating in a pervasive societal dialogue, drawing upon human biology, the history of marital conventions, zoology of human-like species, agency of young adults, and of course countered with just as many arguments and evidence points around nuclear family politics, socio-religious conceptions of decency, the notion of proper edification and child rearing. Unfortunately I imagine that things will get worse before they get better, with horrendous stories of perverse injustices, and the draconic punishment of benign transgressions. Where the chips will fall is anyone's guess.
And to your second point. This one had me excited to reply.
One invites getting played by presenting a fear of getting played with helpless or futile gestures of chagrin.
Let's say a guy talking to a lady, in a sex environment (bar), just picked up on an indication that this lady thinks he's hilarious. This guy is now confident that this lady will giggle through the entire telling of his favorite recollection; he's in the driver's seat, she's on board: he's psyched. Figuring that attraction is not an obstacle at this point (either they are both attracted to one another or have qualities of the nature you mention in paragraph 4), his main focus at this moment is to stroke his ego by eliciting forth her adorable smile (doesn't matter if she's hot or not, we adore making the ladies smile) and he likely has the intention of taking this conversation, evening, night, weekend, relationship, as far as she's willing to go.
Here's where she screws up.
Realizing that she is smitten with this gentleman, the fear of being mistreated or cast aside in favor of the next better thing sets in. Her chin draws in, her gaze down. When he leans in for a kiss, she meekly inquires 'are you just going to use me'?
He is now.
She has just offered herself as available to be used. She has let him know that if his answer to that question is 'of course not, babe' that he can have his way with her any way he likes and then be done with her when he so chooses. And of course the guilt is already diminished because she was the one who set up the expectation of getting used. Furthermore, she has just blown his buzz, having gone from engaging, curious, suspenseful, passionate chemistry to: 'make me a promise of intention for commitment and I'll fold my hand and give you my chips'. BAD.
Alternative ways she should have handled this:
Play him. Ask nothing about him that he doesn't offer to share about himself. Express more interest in filling your drink than any idle conversation. Be the one to guide the night to its final destination (if that is your desire) or be the one to call the night over when and where you say so.
Nothing is going to make that guy more attracted to you than the impression that you were out to use him. One, it indicates that you are somehow interested or attracted to him. You don't even have to let him have a kiss, so long as you acknowledge that he was your consort for the evening. Two, it shows that you can take charge of your own romantic destiny, that you value your time, importance, goals (This also indicates that you don't have a history of being trampled by assholes. Guys HATE getting that impression, and will usually either bail or take up the role of asshole and put you through the shredder once again.) And three, 'she doesn't want some kind of commitment?' is a great quandary to leave him with. You're probably wondering 'won't he think I'm a slut?', and the answer is no. He'll be trying to tell himself 'alright, a lady with no strings!', but what he'll really be dwelling over is, 'why doesn't she want to make something real of this? what am I going to have to do to make her want me? how am I going to be able to prove that we're compatable for the long term?' Now you've got a guy that's going to work for you. Does that mean you're in the clear? no. Does this work 10 out of 10 times? no, especially if you're really having to act to pull it off.
Now, if you're the kind of gal that refuses to kiss a guy until he's made an oath of fealty, there are ways of doing so without setting yourself up for disaster.
Firstly, if you are this type of girl, then you're probably a cock-blocker to guys doting on your friends, and an all-round buzzkill for most things exuberant. But this isn't necessarily the case. In fact, on the other hand, this attitude/behavior should prevent you from being considered a tease (I say 'should' – this behavior doesn't give license to lead guys on) and should establish you as a person to be taken seriously.
It is paramount that you do achieve being taken seriously, as many men will read this prude behavior as mindless enslavement to convention. There are three vehicles of communication that will command a man to take you seriously in this scenario: 1) be blunt (not brusque, but like a cowboy over a spitoon: you're on your time, no one is rushing you, you have your questions, and you're unabashed about expecting answers) 2) be impassioned (fiery, not lugubrious: 'I will cut your balls off' – guys love to hear the ladies threaten violence) or 3) be humorous, which is perhaps the best way to be taken seriously in all walks of life, and in this case it more easily allows for the poise necessary for the first two options to work.
She, “Promise me you'll never cheat on me with your secretary.”
He, shocked, and confused, “What!?”
She, “I'm serious, no necking, no spanking. Nothing.”
He, “I don't even have a secretary.”
She, “Someday you will.”
He, “Well, yeah, I suppose I might somehow. Ok, fine.”
She, “Promise me.”
He, “Alright, I promise. I'll never cheat on you. I don't know why you'd think I'd be the kind of guy-”
She, “You had better not. I swear I'll cut your fucking balls off.”
And there we are, a romance is born. And believe it or not, this could be a first encounter exchange. And if you think her phrasing this joke having set up the expectation that they were likely to spend their lives married together would send him running, you're wrong. It hints at a confirmation that she takes him seriously as a candidate for the long term (or that he would have to be for a chance at getting anywhere, and many of us are happy to play by those rules), but it can also be taken as an anecdotal setup for a joke that clearly seeks to be taken seriously as a 'you had better not screw around' statement, and in no way suggests that she expects to rush in to marriage. (PS – if you try using this dialogue and the guy accuses you of wanting to marry him, take it and run with it; doesn't matter which direction, but if you don't have something funny or pithy to follow up with, the situation could turn around on you pretty quickly).
The point and purpose of this exchange is that the next time cheating pops into Guy's head, and inevitably it will (whether he has any intention of committing the act or not, it is a thing that occurs to people) this exchange, and her subsequent threat, will quickly come to mind, and it will occur to him that She is a cognizant, participating party in this bond, and hopefully – my thought – he will think to respect her, for her agency, her humor, her contribution, and her threat of cutting off his balls.
Bottom line, do not plead, that is asking to get trampled. And a direct demand is only a step up if he thinks you're intelligent (humor = direct + intelligent). My advice would be to avoid the expectation of adultery entirely, and if you must address it, use one of the three vehicles mentioned above.
3. I'm sorry, but I disagree. I have heard enough women tell me that they 'know whether or not [they] would ever want to sleep with a guy in the first thirty seconds' that there must be some validity to it. And I believe this truth contributes a lot to the etiquette of introduction and is one of the underlying purposes of immediate displays of wealth and refinement (poise and rolex), but that is another topic.
Ladies are welcome to play hard to get. However, indicating a desire to cultivate a friendship is a grave insult to man that wants to make you his. Plenty of men are spineless enough to endure this charade, but Hollywood has made this form of relationship appear a lot more passionate, inspiring, and hopeful than it really is.
The hypothetical that you provide… I'm trying to wrap my head around it, but honestly, I can't. A guy that 'can't believe his luck' being able to retain the attraction of some super-hot lady – who is 'league' hot, which is a very different thing from super-hot on its own, as 'league' hot would indicate that she, he and others are aware of the value of her hottness – simply doesn't make sense. For, if she is one to recognize the value of her attractiveness, then an enduring attraction to man who lacks confidence in himself, requiring that she PROVE she really likes him, is hard to fathom. I mean, is this guy some sculptor working for an NGO who happened to find the cure to this lady's mother's degenerative disease? Even if that were the case, where is his confidence then? Why can't this guy at least trust in the chemistry between them? This story ends with her getting snatched up by a proper alpha capable of communicating that her affection is appreciated and reciprocated without giving way to weakness.
4. They 'LOOKED FOR and found better qualities in him'? Well, I think I've made it obvious that I am no fan of idealism, and the notion that anyone seeks out qualities in others to be attracted to is certainly idealistic. However, I do subscribe to the notion that women can be moved by qualities that are not physical-attraction-oriented. After all, aesthetic appeal is not our strongest suit on the overall. Nonetheless, advocating that men 'be real' is a cop out. Being 'real' can mean different things at any given moment. Most men have a conception of what it means to be charming, and most men will try. Unfortunately, often times you will see a failed attempt at charm mercurially descend into bitter invectives, as many men do not take well to rejection, and that IS being real, and it is very unattractive.
As for your allegedly popular term 'boyfriends are ugly', propagating such an outlook would be terribly corrosive to womankind's self-esteem, which in turn would lead to more 'readily available casual sex' and, of course, even more reluctant men. “I don't want to be ugly.”
I look forward to reading more of you work. Thank you once again for your reply.
Dashiell, that is awesome! There is so much good stuff here, I'm gonna tell you right now that I'm going to rip it off and use it. Love, love, love the male point of view. Your advice on how not to get played is priceless. My only objection, and it is a big one, is that these techniques are so artificial, so contrived. As a marketing person, I'm willing to acknowledge the effectiveness of the message, but honestly, can't we ever just let our hair down and relate to each other? I'm a big proponent of strategy, but I'm exhausted just reading your recommendations, valid though they seem.
Re #3, it's true that there are some men that have it made sexually within 30 seconds. But the nature of woman is such that her attraction can grow as she becomes acquainted with a man and sizes him up. Because we are not utterly beholden to the good looks piece, we often get the hots for a man as we get to know him better and discover other qualities in him. I am 100% sure about this. I have seen this happen many, many times. The message to men is: you may know you want to bang someone right away. She may not be sure. You need to invest time to relate to her on an emotional level – that is where her sexual desire will come from.
Finally, I'm not suggesting that “Boyfriends are ugly” become the new slogan of young women everywhere. It's just something I've heard from young women, and guess what? They're willing to consider it! Honestly, women may be biologically programmed to want Alpha, but we are very torn. Betas can be such good boyfriends, and that's what we want more than anything else.
You may be interested in my new post, which explains how the Pill is tilting women increasingly toward choosing Beta. Interesting research.
Dashiell, I know well how time consuming it is to leave a thoughtful and lengthy replay. I appreciate your effort, thoughtfulness and articulate explanations a great deal. As a woman, I NEED to know what men are thinking in order to give any advice that's worth a damn. I need both sides of the story. So thank you.
I get so many vulgar comments/requests from men.. I started to think it was because I looked like an easy lay. The nicest guy I've ever dated was one I met when I was over weight for a little while. Recently, I lost more weight and have gotten much more male attention.. even was stopped on the street a few times. Yet, the men always end up asking me for 'pictures' or talk about how they want to take me from behind or whatever. It's perplexing. I can totally empathize with this article. Also, it's not necessarily easier, especially as an attractive woman, to get better jobs or promotions. It's assumed that I'm probably not very intelligent or not taken seriously for some reason.
Nicole, thanks so much for leaving a comment. From reading this post and the comments, you know that you aren't alone. One thing that happens, I think, is that when a guy encounters a girl who he knows is way out of his league, he has nothing to lose by being rude to her. He knows he can't attract her with conventional lines, so he goes for broke. I can't imagine it ever works, but who knows.
It's interesting to hear you bring up the issue of weight. I have heard from women before who feel uncomfortable with a lot of overt male attention as they just walk around, etc. Putting on weight, dressing down, and so on is one way of giving really pretty women some anonymity.
You also make an interesting point about the workplace. Beautiful women are much more likely to be harrassed or objectified. If you look like Madeleine Albright, for example, you can go about your work without sexual tension getting in the way.
Nicole, thanks so much for leaving a comment. From reading this post and the comments, you know that you aren't alone. One thing that happens, I think, is that when a guy encounters a girl who he knows is way out of his league, he has nothing to lose by being rude to her. He knows he can't attract her with conventional lines, so he goes for broke. I can't imagine it ever works, but who knows.
It's interesting to hear you bring up the issue of weight. I have heard from women before who feel uncomfortable with a lot of overt male attention as they just walk around, etc. Putting on weight, dressing down, and so on is one way of giving really pretty women some anonymity.
You also make an interesting point about the workplace. Beautiful women are much more likely to be harrassed or objectified. If you look like Madeleine Albright, for example, you can go about your work without sexual tension getting in the way.
Yes Pretty girls IMO have it harder. All my life I've been told how beautiful I was, smart and funny. I'm 27 years old and I am still single. I honestly don't know what guys want. I'm attractive, smart and well educated and I am not a conceited bitch. I just don't know!
Hi lisamg, thanks for leaving a comment. As you can tell from my site, and the other comments, you are not alone. For beautiful women, I think being perceived as approachable and attainable is key. But it's important to focus on the right guys. You know exactly how to identify a player, and you should avoid him at all costs. There are lots of great men out there who want love and a real relationship. But you are never going to find one in a bar trying to hit on women. You've got to figure out a way to get out there and interact with more people overall, and different kinds of men specifically. Too many women waste their youth and beauty on douchebags!
Ugh! That text! Look, men have always been interested in sex and always will be. That's fine. But I hate it that they show so little respect for women, objectifying them in this way. So many women get a lot of the wrong kind of attention from men. No woman wants to walk down the street and be ogled by strangers.
The really awful thing is, these tactics must work at least some of the time. This guy must find that he gets a lot of sexy texts back when he says that kind of thing. Women need to demand more respect, and punish guys who don't offer it.
The thing is that text is inappropriate – because his attentions are unwelcome. If they were welcome then it would be a bold flirting gambit to which you might respond differently. The problem is, whether he should or not, he doesn't know if they're unwelcome or not.
Yes he should have left such texting until it's appropriate to your relationship, but maybe he figures it's a short cut to finding out if he has a chance. It's also possible he likes you, but is rather clueless about interpreting people/women, so has somehow got the idea you would welcome such attention. I guess he's no longer under that misapprehension.
I should make clear his style is very different from mine, but if you want to understand what's going on it's helpful to focus less on your own reaction to him (which as I pointed out might have been different had he been more attractive to you) and more on what he may have been trying to achieve. I doubt that being disrespectful was his intention. I also don't think this necessarily 'comes back to sex' despite its obvious sexual overtones. He doesn't sounds like the most clue-in guy about approaching women. He probably had a few drinks and completely overplayed what sounds like an already poor hand.
Hey, Sam, just want to say welcome to HUS! There are a lot of great discussions happening on various posts about relationships and dating, so have a look around. Thanks for commenting.
This is a really interesting topic and I have oft thought of the various issues attractive women have to deal with-and its enlightening to hear some stories.
However I must just get one thing straight in my mind – I dont think in any way attractive women have it worse than more moderate or less attractive women. I just think that they have a different set of problems. Given the multitude of benefits available to attractive women I cant help but feel a little sardonic about the idea of beautiful women exclaiming about how hard they have it…and a less attractive woman often leads a very testing life ending up working hard and give her energy selflessly to strive for self-worth….
Im sorry if that sound cynical but I have to vocalise it…
Ok now I have stated that – I do sympathise with the grossness that women have to put up with. I was walking home with a friend from work the other day who is a gorgeous and lovely blonde – and some motorist came past us and turned right and as he did it he shouted ‘I’ll have sex with you tonight’. I have to say I was flattered but guys arent really my thing-and the car he was dri….
Seriously tho she was perplexed and I honestly didnt know what to say about it – to check if she was upset…It must be pretty unpleasant to be objectified like that by some random beast.
I think it comes down to what type of person you are and how you learn to deal with your looks. If you are sensitive person – you might be upset by the rampant attention. I totally sympathise with that – as it might often be a bit too much what with the way guys are sometimes. Ive recently put on a bit of weight due to a health problem – but previously I have had been regarded as very handsome. There have been times when Ive put on one of my extremely sharp tailored suits to go out in and I walked into a place and felt a strong sense of people staring at me – and got a lot of attention. Although I like to look good – being quite sensitive and if I felt low that day – I actually didnt always like that extra attention – it felt a bit much. The thing is this adoration has not been earnt.
On those occasions I remember thinking to myself ‘this is what women must have to deal with ALL THE TIME-being stared at whilst having no idea about who they are inside’…that must be difficult.
If you are not sensitive you might be narcissistic then good looks might become a power issue and something that leads you to be manipulative…or maybe you can learn that good looks are just one level of who you are and associate with others who have a strong sense of self and feel the same?
Anyways just comments – Im learning a lot from this blog thanks Susan and others for the discussion. Particularly enjoyed your extended monologue Dashiell. Sadly Im not so lucid or eloquent today…but I guess….at least I got to say lucid and eloquent in a last gasp attempt at proving my articulacy in a slightly absurd way-trying to be funny. And a little sleep deprived. Bye!x
Hi Steve,
I hear you – and I think you’re right that beautiful women just have a different set of problems. One of the reasons I wrote this article is that so often women feel that if only they were as hot as “so and so” they’d have it made. Also, it depends on what a person wants. There are probably many beautiful women who love getting free stuff and lots of attention from random strangers. However, those who would like a monogamous relationship can find it a real challenge. The men confident enough to approach them are often players, and they intimidate lots of other men.
I think you make an excellent point about earning admiration. A beautiful woman may get a lot of guys chasing her, but she will often feel that they don’t see the real her. Her looks get in the way. And as you say, gratuitous sexual attention is offensive.
I will agree that narcissists are often good looking, and I’m not sure which comes first. Are they people who have lazily learned to rely on their looks to get them ahead? Or are they narcissists who can be especially toxic due to their good looks?
The science section of the bookstore is not exactly conducive to conversation.
Grocery store again ?
Since when do people meet in grocery stores? Or Blockbusters? Or DMV’s?
Do you really think it is a good idea for me to loiter around a grocery store, Blockbuster, or DMV from opening to close just to meet someone whom I would want as a girlfriend?
Where do people get these ideas?
This might seem like a radical idea, but maybe those women, who do not want to initiate being approached by players, should approach men to whom they are attracted.
Michael´s last blog ..Michael is now friends with eldorado Restaurant lounge
“One of the reasons I wrote this article is that so often women feel that if only they were as hot as “so and so” they’d have it made.”
Very fair point – yes I hear this sentiment a lot if indirectly…actually that made it a lot clearer!
“However, those who would like a monogamous relationship can find it a real challenge. The men confident enough to approach them are often players, and they intimidate lots of other men.”
This makes a lot of sense – and it must over time become a point of disillusionment…probably at first it is exciting while younger…
Yeah – men and women’s value is in so much more that their image and appearance. The subject of narcissism is an interest of mine and I recently read a very revealing book on the subject. Many people view narcissism as someone who loves themselves. However narcissists dont and cannot love themselves or others. They are obsessed with creating a fixed mask to hide emotional numbness. They cannot accept their true authentic ‘self’. They seek power (in their image) to dominate from a deep fear of being humiliated. Its something thats thought to be caused by some emotional trauma in childhood…the source of which is outside the scope of this post…
But there is a wider concept of narcissism in our society now days that did not used to exist to such an extent. The image – how we look and display ourself – is of huge importance in our society. This is my opinion is out of balance. Core values of dignity, respect and authenticity in our society take second place now to appearance and power. Previously in cultures an individual would gain high status from having a dignified and wise character. However now we have the age of celebrity where people will do anything to gain power through fame – they are prepared to trash their dignity in order to get it.
How does this relate to female issues? Well its understood by some that looks count for females – more so than males. I propose then a narcissistic society will only take this (proposed) evolutionary norm and drive it out of balance. And so no wonder beautiful women feel disillusioned by men who are not interested in their true ‘self’ – their character and who they are on a deeper level.
Im still developing my thoughts on this so please excuse me if something doesnt quite sound right or some of my generalisations are clumsy….but the more I understand the more I see the lack of value of the feminine nature that exists in our western society. As opposed to the surface image-to which huge value is attributed. No wonder beautiful women feel angry-its like they are being put on a pedestal for only one fraction of their potential. So rarely do I ever hear of anyone praising how nurturing, caring, loving a girl is. And at worst if someone is very caring they can even be manipulated or used-rather than adored and praised for this trait. All billboards ever display is physical beauty. I never read an advert that says ‘She blooms life, she pours love and nurture into her children to create positivity, The foundation of life is built on her love – the glue that holds the family unit together…’.
Maybe thats just not sexy enough and sex sells – our society is obsessed with a sort of immature form of sex – rather than a true representation of what sex is. Narcissistic also I guess.
Just like us humans are not living in balance with the earth at the mo (destroying it and trying to control it), I also believe our society is completely out of touch with the importance of the feminine nature. Its kind of shameful when I think about it…of course there are worse examples (Sharia law etc) – but still – its something that often people dont realise how important it is perhaps because we are now so bombarded by image all the time rather than taught the issues of real value in life.
It can be. Random encounters are the fourth most common way that dating couples meet. Approaching women during the day in a place where you may have common interests is good strategy.
Yes, I encourage this. A good start is a smile and three seconds of eye contact, which is the threshold for attraction.
Would it be a good idea for me to loiter in a particular section in a bookstore, from open until close, until I find someone I might possibly like?
And it is fairly obvious that loitering in a grocery store just to meet girls is not a good idea.
Michael´s last blog ..Michael is now friends with eldorado Restaurant lounge
Steve, I agree completely. Does the book you read go into this more contemporary view of narcissism? I’m quite interested in this topic. Actually, I just put up a post that addresses what you’re talking about here. It’s not really my usual fare – we’ll see how it goes over.
NO! Loitering around hoping women will come in is creepy. Just live your life and pursue your interests. Be open and friendly. Say hello, offer to help, etc.
Honestly it sounds so conceited to agree with this but even last night I had numerous uncomfortable situations related to this topic (people think I’m conventionally beautiful)… I went to town with my mixed group of friends to play pool, I was just wearing jeans, ballet shoes and a peacoat, and I still got drunk guys saying the rudest things to me. I also got called a snobby bitch twice by different guys after I didn’t respond to their passing comments (even though I smiled politely). Wow. Then on the drive home my flatmate asked me again why I don’t have a boyfriend and told me I was really weird because of it (he had been constantly hitting on me lately which makes my life so uncomfortable). Lastly I talked to a guy I met recently and have hungout with a few times and talk to a lot online… super funny, smart, good looking.. which I thought was finally a good sign and that he liked me or whatever… then he proceeded to tell me that he was ‘pleasantly suprised at how pleasant I was’ after getting to know me. I questioned this, to which he pretty much stated he expected me to be dumb because I look like a shallow and fashionable person, and that he was suprised that I love to read and know about things he doesn’t. Like Kierkegaard. Or Lutherism. Um, is that a compliment? I look like a dumb snobby bitch… thanks. By this stage I wanted to cry myself to sleep. Ha. Also last night found out my incredibly beautiful best friend from high school ( like Megan Fox, Angelina Jolie beautiful!) is on heavy medication and suicide watch because she tried to kill herself 2 weeks ago. So please don’t think people who are ‘good looking’ have life easy because no one does. P.S. I’m only 20 so sorry if this reads like a ramble in Cosmopolitan.
Lily, thanks for leaving a comment. I wrote this post because I have heard a lot of stories like this from really attractive women. So often people believe that if only they were better looking they’d have it made and be happy. Of course, it doesn’t work that way. We all have our problems. I’m sorry your friend is so troubled- I hope she will get help and get better.
This is a great post! There’s no way of saying this without seeming full of myself, so I’ll just say it: I’m a noticeably attractive woman. By that I mean that I get a lot of compliments from strangers daily, I get stared at a lot, and occasionally I’ll get something free.
But, I wasn’t always this way; I used to be 80 lbs heavier and I was virtually invisible to most men. The attention and perks are all VERY new to me (it started in January when I moved to the most shallow city in existence- LA) so I know how it is to be on both sides of the tracks. Life really is… different for pretty people. I’ve watched the difference in my own life, and those changes are both good and bad.
While people are much nicer and trusting towards me, I really do feel like a lot of the new friends I have only like me because I’m pretty. And I’m certain that I only got my newest job as a hostess at a restaurant because of my looks. While at work I get a lot of unwelcome comments from male customers, and older men seem to think that it’s perfectly fine to touch me without my permission. And like Lily, if I reject a guys advances I’m immediately called “snobby” or a b*tch.
Also, lately I’ve felt like a lot of guys I date think of me as some sort of accomplishment. Like, they’ll immediately take me around their friends and I can’t help but think it’s because they want to show me off. And on top of this, I think that a lot of guys with good intensions are afraid to approach me or show interest in me for fear of rejection, so I have to make it painfully obvious that I like a guy before he’ll initiate something with me.
Don’t get me wrong, overall I’m loving this newfound attention and popularity, but this article is very true. It doesn’t bother me too much though, I feel like because I attract more guys, I’m more likely to eventually meet a really good one.
Miranda, that’s fabulous, congratulations! Of course you are enjoying the admiration of men! It’s very interesting that you’ve experienced it both ways and can be objective about the difference in the way you’re perceived now that you are thin.
I agree completely that by attracting many guys, your odds of meeting a good man are high. It’s good that you recognize the need to signal your interest, so that a man who isn’t cocky or a player will still feel confident approaching you.
I wish you all the best!
Miranda, you had a boyfriend take you around to meet your friends because he wanted to “show you off”, I’ve had the opposite! I was involved with a man who, while everyone else said I was beautiful, was ashamed of me because I was not his usually “ethnic type”. It feels horrible to be thought of as “attractive” by everyone but the man who is supposed to “love” you.
This actually isn’t true. I actually have (had?) a crush on him — I think he’s really an all-around amazing person. His approach totally sucked, but if he were to ask me out I would definitely say yes. He also knows girls well enough to know what kind of interaction works, I know this for a fact. The fact that he chose that one to use on me is disheartening, that’s all I’m saying.
that is so true! im in the same predicament as you darling!
I joined a new gym a couple years ago and there was girl who was good looking and I think she was a little taller than me. I saw her running on the treadmill and noticed her but never assumed that she would be interested because I had always assumed that tall girls wanted tall guys. Well a week later I was stretching in a small stretching area near the treadmills and I sat down next to her because it was crowded there was no where else to sit and stretch that day. I looked over to see the people running and I saw that she was staring right at me. I looked away and then back and she was still staring at me. I was in total shock and I couldn’t even talk. I was embarrassed about that, and I did eventually manage to talk to her, although I thought I had blown my chance by the time I spoke with her. (If the same thing were to happen to me today, two years later, I think I handle it much better.)
So I think that pretty women do have it harder because sometimes even if they do give guys eye contact, the guys don’t know always what it means anyway.
“I personally know at least a dozen young women who are the whole package: Lovely to look at, smart, curious, funny, interesting, generous. And they’re all unattached.”
Oh really? Prove it. Personally Susan, I call BS on your claim. Experience and the school of hard knocks lead me to my conclusions.
“I personally know at least a dozen young women who are the whole package: Lovely to look at, smart, curious, funny, interesting, generous. And they’re all unattached.”
Oh really? Prove it. Personally Susan, I call BS on your statement quoted above. I base my opinion on personal experience in the school of hard knocks.
The problem is that a lot of those women are so jaded that if a decent guy did chase after one of them, they are often very distrustful and frequently do extremely annoying things to scare him away. No guy wants to be with a woman who is very distrustful.
“The problem is that a lot of those women are so jaded that if a decent guy did chase after one of them, they are often very distrustful and frequently do extremely annoying things to scare him away. No guy wants to be with a woman who is very distrustful.”
You said it yourself: They’re ‘so jaded’. And why do you think that is, sir? Hmmmm, I wonder….
After having experienced so many womanizing, frat and pretty boy-dogs, is it any wonder that a woman may become distrustful? Hmmmm, maybe that was a rhetorical (sp?) question, lol.
Those women may have experienced womanizers, but that was because those were the guys that those women wanted or hung out with. There are lots of decent guys who get ignored by many women in college. A decent guy who was ignored by most of the women in his college days is not going to settle for a jaded woman if he can help it – he won’t tolerate a distrustful and angry woman and will pursue women who seem nicer and more appreciative.
Thanks for this article! I know I get damn offended when people assume that I have it all laid out for me because I’m pretty, intelligent and well-groomed, because in my experience it just isn’t true. When I was a plain, dorky teenager with frizzy dishwater hair boys would talk to me; as soon as I grew out of my awkwardness, being a late bloomer, they just completely dried up. On the other hand, all my less pretty friends have bagged wonderful men as long-term boyfriends.
The only guys who approach me now are douchy let-me-buy-you-a-drink-and-spike-it types who make it absolutely plain that they’re only after bragging rights. If I reject them coldly and so make myself look unattainable – ladies, would you feel good about knowing that the only men who don’t treat you like a pretty leper are only after descriptions of how you do in bed?
Thankfully, nature’s given me options so I don’t have to settle for rubbish men. Thumbs up for that, Mother Nature – I appreciate it greatly.
A.M., thanks for leaving a comment. I have a question – Mother Nature gave you options – but how do you connect with men if they’re intimidated by you?