When You Fall For Someone Who’s Taken
Kama Sutra in the Office
I’ve been getting a lot of questions from readers lately, which is awesome! Recently, a number have touched on the same dilemma: how to handle a strong chemistry with someone who is already in a committed relationship. Obviously, circumstances and details will vary considerably from case to case, but there are some general rules that I believe should be followed in all such cases. The following letter is pretty representative of how this happens, and how it affects the people involved. Read on, I think you may be surprised by what I have to say. And don’t forget to vote in the poll at the end!
Dear Susan,
I am in the most confusing situation! HELP! There’s a guy at work who I’ve known for about six months. I’ll call him Jason. He’s in another part of the company, but recently our departments have been cooperating on a project, so we’ve been thrown together quite a bit. He has a girlfriend, I’ve known that from the start. We get along really well and we’ve become pretty good friends. I don’t want you to misunderstand, nothing at all has happened between us. But there is SO MUCH going on below the surface. When we first met and started hanging out at lunch, etc. he would talk pretty openly about her, their social plans, etc. He has never indicated how serious they are, but I know they’ve been going out for a couple of years (we’re both 25). I’m not in a relationship right now, but I’ve always told him my crazy dating stories. We laugh about them, and he gives me really good advice from a guy’s point of view.
At some point, I’m not sure exactly when, things really started to feel different between us. I would catch Jason staring at me in meetings, getting distracted when we were talking, etc. I know he’s off-limits but once I noticed his attention, my attraction for him began to grow. He is a really good guy, and we are very compatible. This chemistry between us has changed everything. He never mentions his girlfriend anymore, and when I try to bring up another guy, he changes the subject. It’s obvious his days of giving me advice are over. The last couple of weeks have been really awkward and intense. He alternates between acting like he hardly knows me, and seeming really close and connected. He’s hot and cold, but I totally understand it.
I don’t want to be a homewrecker, I am not that girl. The project will be over soon, and then I’m unlikely to see him much unless we plan it. I don’t want to lose Jason or his friendship, but I don’t want to just stay platonic either. And I don’t even want to go out with any other guys right now! Obviously, the timing is terrible, but I really think he could be the one for me. I suspect he feels it too. I am miserable, and would appreciate any insight you might have.
Courtney
Dear Courtney,
This is indeed a very complicated situation, with a number of moving pieces, and a couple of elephants in the room. Let’s tackle them one at a time. First, let me say that I am not going to tell you to forget about him. Strong chemistry that grows out of friendship is a great foundation for a relationship, and it doesn’t come along often, so I’m reluctant to dismiss it.
The Facts
- Neither of you is married.
- You have behaved with good character.
- He has behaved with good character.
- It sounds like you are in love with him.
- You want an action plan that will get you the guy.
- You work for the same company.
Appropriateness of Your Behavior
No one ever wants to be “the other woman,” but you don’t see men getting all hung up on the guilt thing. It’s another antiquated double standard. You go so far as to refer to your role as a potential “homewrecker.” For me, the word implies that the man is married at the very least, and probably has children. It’s an old-fashioned term that recalls the days when women were financially dependent on their husbands, raising the children full-time. If a husband left his family for another woman, he would often be putting his family in a precarious financial position, leaving them to fend for themselves. I don’t find the term relevant today, especially if there is not a physical home being shared.
Having said that, I do believe that deliberately setting your sights on someone in a committed relationship is deplorable. It is natural for us to find others attractive even when we love our SO, and for someone to capitalize on that for personal gain is inexcusable. That is not what you are describing. You portray a situation where the attraction snuck up on the two of you as you got to know each other, with neither party trying to “lure” the other in any way. It happens, and from what you’ve written I can’t see that you have done anything wrong.
Appropriateness of Jason’s Behavior
Again, I really don’t find fault here. Jason has not flirted with you openly; you have caught him watching you. That’s hardly an offense. He didn’t get drunk at the company picnic and try to hook up with you, as many guys would have done! He has redefined your relationship by changing what he is willing to discuss, and how much time he is willing to spend with you.
Feelings
It seems pretty clear that both of you have caught feelings for each other. I have to assume that Jason is perfectly aware that you have feelings for him, and is ambivalent about that. It would be easier for him if he had a crush, but knew that you were not interested. The sexual tension has been ratcheted up because both of you sense that it’s mutual. I have no way of knowing whether Jason is considering a) leaving his girlfriend or b) getting involved with you. If he is, it needs to happen in that order. When there is a third person in the picture, there should be no overlap. If he feels strongly enough about you, he will end his relationship in order to explore a relationship with you. If he feels that he’s got a good thing going with his gf, and may see her as “the one,” he will continue to drift away from you until the project ends and the two of you are not thrown together anymore.
A Strategic Plan
You are in no way obligated to remove yourself from the picture. I don’t know what your chances of success are, but if you’re all in on this guy it doesn’t matter what the odds are. I am not suggesting that you go after him, flirt with him, entice him in any way. But I would certainly let him see how wonderful you are at every possible opportunity.
- Be professional. You are paid to do a job, and you need to do it to the best of your ability. Do not allow yourself to become distracted and preoccupied at work.
- Be a good friend. Try to put him at ease about the situation by dialing down the tension if you can. Avoid the topics of his gf or other guys. Recall why you got along so well from the beginning and nurture those platonic aspects of your friendship.
- Don’t take the bait. Even though he is not being open about what he is feeling, he has created the awkwardness by giving you those longing looks. Ignore them. Return to working productively by not allowing those moments of intensity to occur. You do that by not playing. Your goal is to be neither avoided by him, nor feel “close and connected” to him.
- Work it. Make every attempt to be your most fabulous self. You are strong and confident. You have a life filled with friends, dates and social plans. You do not pout. You do not give him angsty looks. Your mantra is, “I am the object of desire.”
- DO NOT stop seeing other people. Waiting around for a man to leave someone is a very bad idea.
Jason is not married. People break up all the time because one of them has met someone they like better. That’s life. You are not obligated in any way to help Jason preserve his relationship. I am more concerned about your own emotional well-being. I wouldn’t spend a lot of time on Jason. Many women have sad tales to tell about men who never did get around to making up their minds. If what Jason feels for you is real, he’s likely to figure it out sooner rather than later.
Office Romance
Whether or not you wind up in a relationship with this guy, the question of romance while working together is one that must be addressed. As the average age of marriage keeps getting pushed back for both women and men, college is no longer a place to meet your future spouse. Americans are also working longer hours than ever before. The workplace becomes the next logical place where young people get to know one another outside the singles/online dating scene. Research shows that 47% of Americans have dated in the workplace. Anthropologist Helen Fisher likens the modern-day office to a “romantic Petri dish.”
It’s definitely happening. Therefore, it is essential that we find ways for co-workers to date successfully, rather than ruling it out categorically.
If you follow these rules, you should be OK:
1. Understand your company’s rules or culture around this issue to avoid blunders.
2. Minimize career risk by not dating a boss or a subordinate. Office politics are often ruthless, and any suspicion of favoritism can be very destructive to your career.
3. If you do date a co-worker, you need to stay 100% professional at the office. Absolutely no PDA. Don’t keep it secret, but don’t broadcast it either.
4. If things get really serious, it’s often best for the relationship if one person leaves the firm.
Of everything I’ve written, I would have to say that the most important take-away is NO OVERLAP. Don’t even kiss this guy if he’s attached to someone else. He needs to make a clean break or it’s no-go. Because otherwise, you really will have become the other woman, and that is something to feel terrible about.
Best,
Susan
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What do you mean – “but you don’t see men getting all hung up on the guilt thing”. Of course they do.
I have and many of my mates have, so don't say things as fact when plainly they're not. Guilt is an emotion that both sexes have. I can't think of a single emotion that both sexes don't share.
Hi Susan! Oh God. My heart did a little skip when the page loaded and caught the title of this post….and kinda writhed in both pain & relief when I read the rest of it….haaa. Pain because it's totally what I went through (Is the letter for real?!?! I was in a project with the guy I mentioned to you and it has just ended….less excuses for us to talk now). Relief because I'm not alone in this situation and I've more or less been doing what you've mentioned in the strategic plan.
Yes – the longing looks, the intense stares….it drives me nuts sometimes because it's all sooo ambiguous and subtle that half the time you're thinking you must be imagining it all. But it can't be, you say to yourself…because your heart is thumping like mad.
NO OVERLAP – Agree 100%. My take is this, if he's really serious he'll take the necessary steps to be with me. If he doesn't, he's probably just not that into me.
Even though we have great chemistry and share a lot of the same fundamental values, we are probably are not focused on the same things at the moment. I'm kinda pass all the partying, ready to settle whilst he seems to be enjoying Friday nights with his buddies sans girlfriend.
Like you said – there are so many moving pieces….I try not to think about it too much and be as light about it as possible. It's the only way to keep sane!
Thanks for this post. Hugz
Hey Strangely Perfect, are you? I'm not, so I'll apologize if this came across the wrong way. I didn't mean to say that men don't experience guilt. I agree that both sexes share the full spectrum of emotional responses.
Here, I was referring to the fact that “the other woman” is a cliche in popular culture, often referred to as a “homewrecker.” I've never heard comparable terms for a man who's the reason for a breakup. In fact, since men compete with one another directly for women, stealing a woman away from another guy is often perceived as very masculine, and a victory.
In this scenario, I don't think anyone should feel guilty, because it doesn't appear that anyone has misbehaved or been deceitful in any way.
Anyway, sorry if I bungled that and offended you.
I've only had a crush on a taken guy once…he'd been an relationship with his girlfriend for years…he flirted with me like no one has ever flirted with me. He used to pick me up and throw me over his shoulder, he was always touching me. But it was just flirting. He was never interested in me at all…and now we're good friends.
One of his friends hit on me. and when I told Taken Guy that he was all “oh, that guy's married” I was horrified. I've never been so disgusted by a man who showed interest in me in my life.
I tend to think that if the only reason that a relationship is ending is because of another person then the new relationship probably won't be that great anyway. If that makes sense…and I definitely think cheating – which often happens – is totally wrong and horrible. I really don't know what I am talking about though, clearly.
Brionycc, haha, I was keeping you all anonymous, and now you've gone and blown your cover! Actually, I received three very similar emails in the last couple of weeks about this subject. This letter is one of the three (not yours, specifically, obvs), but with some features from the other two thrown in. I didn't know about the project, that's a coincidence, weird! I think yours did include the fact that he's stopped mentioning his gf, I thought that was pretty interesting. Anyway, since you already got my customized response, haha, this was probably all review.
It's interesting that you mention that you guys seem to be in different places right now. And that he spends one of his two weekend nights SANS girlfriend. Maybe he is just a guy's guy, but I wonder.
You do sound very sane. I give you enormous credit for seeing the humor as well as the angsty drama. As I say to my daughter from time to time, will you please ask that guy to give me call? (It never works with her either.)
Hi Susana.
I'm no more strange nor perfect than any other person on the planet. It's merely an epithet to get people thinking, and it's amazing how many hackles rise because of it. However, my “about” page should make this clear.
Your words don't offend me – I just seriously disagree. And you've done it again…
I disagree with you that men compete with one another for women, because your hidden meaning (or assumption) is that women don't do likewise, but vice-versa.
It's obvious to me that women compete in exactly the same was and for very similar reasons, if they choose to.
There are a lot of cliches in culture, not least the host of weird American hang-ups, especially compared to the usually accepted mores that exist in France & Italy, say. But because they are cliches, doesn't make them commonplace, in the same way that every time I see a butler, I don't automatically assume he's done a murder, as in Agatha Christie's stuff. Or that every time I see a black youth, it doesn't mean he's loaded up with drugs and knives?
These are all cliches, some made the more so by a rapid news culture, but I don't run my life by them.
Of course you know what you're talking about! This is one of those situations that we can think about hypothetically. It's not something I would wish on anyone, obviously, because someone has to get hurt.
Some people are just very flirty by nature. I guess if their partner is fine with it, it's OK, but I wouldn't care for it. I don't like it at all when a man is with a woman and openly stares at other women. Women know men like to look (both at real women and at porn), but it seems only respectful to tone it down when your SO is present.
Re Married Guy, that is very sketchy, I agree. Like, what exactly are you offering here? Sex with a cheater? I definitely also believe that any relationship that gets formed through cheating of any kind is probably doomed. It's just a terrible way to start out.
I did once have a guy approach me who was in a relationship. I had noticed him, thought he was hot, but we had never made eye contact and I didn't even realize he knew who I was. He came up to me at a party and said, “I want to be with you, but I have a girlfriend. I'll call you once I've ended it with her.” It was so bizarre! I was excited because we all thought he was dreamy, but it was also hard to credit. Well, he wrote a song about his feelings and sent it to me, then called me in two weeks to say he had broken up with her. It was unbelievably intense. Needless to say, she was never a fan of mine after that. We dated six months, and then his emotional intensity just kind of freaked me out — after a fight he broke into my apt. in the middle of the night to leave tormented letters on my table. I still have no idea what he saw in me!
hey susan, love your advice on this subject. xo S
Here's my reasoning on competition in mating strategy differences by sex. It's rooted in Evolutionary Psychology:
Women have far more at stake than men when choosing to have sex. Even if they are using birth-control, our brains are wired in exactly the same way they were many thousands of years ago. We run the risk of pregnancy, followed by many years of responsibility for offspring. We therefore need to be very selective when mating, choosing the man with the best possible array of attributes for investing in nurturing and protecting our young.
Men have very little at stake when mating. Speaking biologically, their biggest risk is being cuckolded, and having to raise the offspring of another man. Research has shown conclusively that men are not selective when choosing a partner for sex. In fact, three different studies have shown that 75% of men agreed to go have sex with a stranger, while 0% of women took the bait.
So. Lots of men want to have sex with just about anyone. Women want to have sex with very few men. That means men must compete arduously with one another to get laid. This isn't my opinion, it's all hard science. See David Buss's The Evolution of Desire to start.
Therefore, woman stealing man from another woman = homewrecking bitch. Man stealing woman from another man = high five, nicely done mate.
I'm glad to hear you don't run your life buy cliches, but all cliches have an element of truth in them, as do all stereotypes. A cliche is an observation that has been made so many times as to become an assumption in the culture.
Finally, I'm not sure what weird American hang-ups you refer to, compared to “usually accepted mores” in France and Italy. My daughter is studying in Florence at the moment, and men pat her backside as she walks down the street. Call me weirdly hung up, but that seems intrusive and creepy.
Susan, thanks, I thought of you flying on Friday the 13th! Can't wait to hear all about your trip.
I do always feel very gratified when I get your Therapist Seal of Approval!
Cliches do have an element, but some of them belong in the past. Like pea-souper fogs in London, which are a cliche that seems to hang around the American mind but haven't existed for nearly a lifetime, I suggest that many of the cliches to which you refer also belong to an olden age, despite what you say about different breeding strategies… I also know all about the natural chemical warfare going on in women's vaginas that is all part of our evolution from my university studies for my degree… but still, you know, our brains can control an awful lot. It's mind over matter. You don't have to go and shag anyone who stands still for long enough.
I phrased the American thing badly, so sorry… I know exactly what you mean about Italy, although the men in Cuneo seemed to be perfect gentlemen if they weren't swaggering mafia types.
I meant that both cultures on each side of the Atlantic have their own set of weird hang-ups. (I include us in the UK, and anyone else for that matter). They're all weird. For the US, Terry Thomas in “It's a mad, mad, Mad World” summed it all up quite well and that was in the early 60s. Italy's PM has done his fair share of weird things as has Sarkozy when he dumped his wife in an instant after becoming President. In France, it 'appears' that everyone has a mistress. The natural assumption here is that these mistresses have to come from somewhere, and thus, many of these must be in a relationship anyway because I don't believe that there exists this pool of women, all desperate to be mistresses, and that alone? So that is a cliche, the stereotype of the French Mistress, and where does Evolutionary Psychology fit into that?
I don't know where you live, but in Bridgwater, Somerset, it's my observation that almost everyone wants sex with everyone else on a Friday and Saturday night. This is completely at odds with your statement that most women don't.
Granted, Bridgwater is somewhat special though. The DNA in the town is continuous from the retreat of the ice because DNA in the Cheddar caves and elsewhere can be directly traced to modern people. Because of this and the very close family relationships, I've learnt to be very careful about what I say about anybody because the slightest remark is guaranteed to offend (I'm from elsewhere, originally).
It's very common for women by the age of 20-23, say, to have at least 3 children all by different fathers, and for them all to know each other and generally get along. (It's been like this for generations.) By the time they are 25-30 they can have 7 say, and then be grandmothers at 35.
This I find very weird.
But this sort of evidence must be included in any dogmatic statement to fit into any theory, or else, it's a duff theory and can't be construed as being wholly correct. I think there's lots more work to be done.
Great advice!
One twist on this kind of situation that particularly sucks is when the gf is absolutely dreadful (haha, I'm thinking about Glee here… I just saw episode 2, I guess in the US you're way ahead… Anyway, they showed completely opposite ways of handling the situation).
But I can think of a guy or two that I have fantasized about rescueing, haha. Good thing they're not friends of mine or anything. Single guys are more than enough challenge for me
Yes, morning glory I think you have your hands full, no heroics please! I'm trying to remember Episode 2 of Glee. Is Quinn the dreadful gf? How about Shu's wife? That's a case where I am absolutely rooting for Emma, but even there I would hate to see overlap. He needs to leave his crazy wife and take up with crazy Emma (what's with the germ phobia?)
You make a good point, though. Sometimes a relationship is in trouble, and one party starts confiding that to a third party, then they develop feelings, and it's a real mess, because they've developed all this intimacy about how the existing relationship is not working. Not a good way to start out.
And then there's the situation where you really like the other person. Maybe they've even become a friend. I guess then you just can't go there.
I think Decoybetty was right – a relationship that starts out with heavy baggage may be an uphill battle. It will require very open communication, that's for sure.
Haha yeah that's me! I wear my heart on my sleeve though I've learnt to be less so these days.
To be honest I'm not sure what's going on with him and his girl…why did I say he wants to be committed? Well, he was flying half the world to go see her like 5, 6 times over a span of one year or so. If that's not commitment I don't know what is!! There were signs of trouble in the relationship at one time but then before I knew it he flew off to help her move back. Previously he'll find some way to tell me if he was going away (he just tells me where but not the purpose…but we both know I know. !!!!!) but that time he just went, I was beside myself when I heard the 'news' from someone else – to say the least. Not that I was gonna to take advantage of the situation but it was just such a sharp turn of events. I guess they worked things out. I remember telling my friend I was happy for him….in a most bitter sweet way. Yes I'm quite hopeless like that…
Uh huh, I wish you could call him and put me out of my misery. Say hi to your daughter, hope she finds someone great that deserves her
Dramaaaaaa!!! What a great story!
I have to disagree regarding men respecting other guys who seduce married women. The only guys who respect that are players, who are in the minority. Most every man who finds out another guy had, even once, just tried to get with a married woman, much less succeeded, will put that guy into the same category they put any thief. Namely, that this guy cannot be trusted, as if he will steal someone else's girl, he might try to steal yours. And if he is willing to do that, then what else may he decide he can steal for himself? It is unlikely other men will be anything more than civil to him and not trust him with anything.
Story time: At my first post-college job I developed a friendship with two coworkers. Let's call them Bob and Tom. I would go out with them on Thursday nights to a local bar for a few drinks and maybe some pool. Bob was married, and he worked two jobs to support his family. His wife, let's call her Candy, was a stay at home mom, and despite the fact she had a CPA and could make more than both of his salaries she had no interest in joining the workforce. Well, eventually Bob had to get a third job in order to pay the bills. He asked Tom and I to let his wife join us in his place on Thursday nights as she had little adult contact. And so it went for about two months before my best friend's wife, who was also a coworker at the time, told me that Candy was having an affair with Tom. Bob had emails, pictures, and witnesses. The worst part about it that Tom and Candy had been telling Bob that I was with them the entire night on Thursdays, when in fact I would go home at 10pm so I could be properly awake for work the next morning. Basically they used me as cover for their activities, and it took Bob some time to figure out I was completely in the dark over what was going on.
I was almost as angry as Bob over this. I had been an unwitting accomplice in Bob's cuckolding, I felt incredibly naive and used, and I was also afraid that people would think I had been ok with what Tom had been up to. I am afraid I went a little nuts and after Bob quit the company I made sure everyone there knew what had been going on.
Do you know which group of people came out of the woodwork to defend Tom? The middle aged married women. Poor little Tom was just a misunderstood, young little guy who was just got caught up in feelings beyond his control. He never meant to hurt anyone, of course. They then tried to tar me as being just as bad by spreading rumors about me and my best friend's wife. They used the fact that she and I would head out to lunch together; what they did not mention in their gossip is that she and I would go out to lunch together because we were carpooling to meet her husband for lunch. The people who were hardest on Tom? The men. Especially the married men. Basically, we drove him out of the company and even the state.
Just some food for thought for you.
Aw, thanks. Allright, if he's flying halfway around the world, that would certainly be called a commitment. I admire you for taking the high road. If I were you I'd be hoping she got hit by a bus
Haha, yeah, I've got a few of those up my sleeve! I had a tendency to bring the crazy out in people.
WOW! What a story! It's amazing how when people behave so badly, they get all kinds of innocent bystanders caught in their web. How awful for you to have been used as cover, and then have to work hard to salvage your own reputation. That is incredibly selfish behavior on Candy and Tom's part. Honestly, the minute you said she refused to work while her husband worked three jobs, I suspected she was selfish and would turn out to be the villain in this story.
Sounds like Tom charmed everyone – no doubt those middle-aged women would have liked a piece of him. And don't even get me started on women and office politics – I hate to have to say it, but I have always preferred working with men over women. And any woman boss I've ever had has been a total shrew. That's just my experience, and I started in an era when women were competing for a small number of professional spots. Perhaps it's changed, but women at the water cooler? Vicious!
In any case, I'm really glad the married men rallied to push Tom out. You've seen it first hand, so I stand corrected. Glad to hear I'm wrong about that. Monogamy is often difficult, and those who resist the temptation to cheat deserve credit. I'm glad men have a code of conduct around this, and hold each other accountable.
P.S. What on earth was Bob thinking sending his wife out to a bar full of men to shoot pool?
I don't think you are completely wrong. I think that people with the 'player' mentality will treat it as a competition and egg each other on in their attempts to have affairs with married women. Since they do not really value the women in their lives, what is there to be jealous over? And when they have gotten what they want they really don't care if some other player gets ahold of her. The men who value women, especially the women in their lives, have only contempt for these men, though.
As far as Bob goes… she played on his sense of responsibility for his family. He also had way to much trust in her and in our capacity to keep her out of trouble. I think that is the real tragedy in this situation. He and I have both lost alot of our capacity to trust others because of this. It also took me awhile to let go of the sense of shame I felt in being used as cover for their adultery and for my obliviousness to the affair occurring right in front of me.
In the end I have taken away from the experience a 'Trust but verify' mentality for relationships. You cannot stop people from behaving badly, but you can look out for such behavior and try to enforce consequences in response. Trust in your love is a necessity for a relationship to work; but blind trust is poisonous. Besides, being attentive to your partner not only fills their needs for attention, but makes it so much harder to pursue affairs. And, just as Jesus said it is not wise to tempt God… it is not wise to tempt your partner's fidelity by leaving them in prime hookup spots.
Anyway. I just put all the above out there in the chance someone who is tempted will think some on the consequences… or for someone who may be putting their partner in bad situations to take their blinders off and protect their relationship before it is too late.
I have used “trust but verify” on this blog! People are capable of great selfishness and deceit, and you're better off learning you're with one of those people sooner rather than later.
Re your obliviousness to the affair, I hope you have figured out how incredibly masterful people can be at deception to get what they want. You were not looking to “trust but verify” in that instance, it was not your role. As I've suggested, Bob probably used very poor judgment, altho he must have figured that out pretty quickly if he had all that evidence. It's a sordid tale, but you bear zero responsibility for any of it.
Can't say I've not had thoughts of those nature but better get a grip of myself. What if I get to meet her one of these days and she's NICE? *Aghast* I don't want to meet her.
Haha, agreed. Don't meet her! It never helps to put a face to someone you are determined to loathe.
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I don't really agree on the 'no overlap'. That strongly depends on the personality of the person you are dealing with. Just because I'm attracted to a girl, on any grounds, doesn't necessarily mean that I want her to be my girlfriend.
If you have any experience under your belt (which you usually do by 25), your criteria for who is 'girlfriend' material is going to be stringent enough that you actually have to date the person; and be assertive and open about your intentions, your values, et cetera and have that assertiveness reciprocated before you can truly judge.
Partner selection doesn't happen in a vacuum. You have to know the options arrayed before you. He might percieve his co-worker as available and receptive, but he isn't necessarily giving her justice in those perceptions, because his whole frame of reference is one of platonic friendship; no matter any underlying attraction.
Your recommendation that she withdraw some of her interest I think is just advice to be coquettish. I understand that women find that aloofness attractive in men; but most men are almost exactly the opposite. She should start conversing with him as if she was his girlfriend already. Flirt with him, and pique his interest as much as possible. Don't sleep with him; but at least get him to come clean about his attraction and come clean to him. If he wants sex, and everything else, the old girlfriend has to go first.
Keeping him in her life after the project, if he isn't interested in a relationship, or he might not be, but they are both attracted to each other is a recipe for disaster. She should just find out what's going on, or if things could go anywhere and then be done with it all, one way or the other.
Hey, Kyle, welcome, thanks for commenting. Your perspective on this is very interesting — it has the ring of truth and experience to it, so I take it seriously on that basis alone. Plus, you're a guy – and we love to hear what guys are thinking!
It sounds like you think Courtney may just be imagining the longing looks and increased sexual tension. Or perhaps it's just sexual, but has no other meaning? And it would not interfere with his intentions to remain platonic?
I hear what you are saying about overlap, and that it is not realistic to expect Jason to make a choice between his gf and a co-worker he doesn't know very well. In this case, I meant no overlap in a physical sense. If he winds up cheating with her, that's a pretty bad way to get a relationship started.
My advice to Courtney to withdraw interest is not encouragement to be coquettish – mostly I'm concerned that Courtney is going to wind up with a broken heart, and she needs to nip this in the bud. It sounds like she has really fallen for him, and he is not available. Piquing his interest is going to be a disaster if, in the end, he has absolutely no intention of leaving his gf. Because all that flirting feels risky and gets her invested.
I actually love your advice about coming clean to him, laying it on the line. In fact, I wish I'd included that in my post. Laying it on the line is always high-risk. But it also is potentially high-reward. As you say, it would enable her to know what's going on once and for all. Women have difficulty being forthright and direct, but I have found that men are good at communicating in this way. She's likely to get the truth from him, even if it is something she doesn't want to hear. Either way, she's better off.
I don't really agree on the 'no overlap'. That strongly depends on the personality of the person you are dealing with. Just because I'm attracted to a girl, on any grounds, doesn't necessarily mean that I want her to be my girlfriend.
If you have any experience under your belt (which you usually do by 25), your criteria for who is 'girlfriend' material is going to be stringent enough that you actually have to date the person; and be assertive and open about your intentions, your values, et cetera and have that assertiveness reciprocated before you can truly judge.
Partner selection doesn't happen in a vacuum. You have to know the options arrayed before you. He might percieve his co-worker as available and receptive, but he isn't necessarily giving her justice in those perceptions, because his whole frame of reference is one of platonic friendship; no matter any underlying attraction.
Your recommendation that she withdraw some of her interest I think is just advice to be coquettish. I understand that women find that aloofness attractive in men; but most men are almost exactly the opposite. She should start conversing with him as if she was his girlfriend already. Flirt with him, and pique his interest as much as possible. Don't sleep with him; but at least get him to come clean about his attraction and come clean to him. If he wants sex, and everything else, the old girlfriend has to go first.
Keeping him in her life after the project, if he isn't interested in a relationship, or he might not be, but they are both attracted to each other is a recipe for disaster. She should just find out what's going on, or if things could go anywhere and then be done with it all, one way or the other.
Hey, Kyle, welcome, thanks for commenting. Your perspective on this is very interesting — it has the ring of truth and experience to it, so I take it seriously on that basis alone. Plus, you're a guy – and we love to hear what guys are thinking!
It sounds like you think Courtney may just be imagining the longing looks and increased sexual tension. Or perhaps it's just sexual, but has no other meaning? And it would not interfere with his intentions to remain platonic?
I hear what you are saying about overlap, and that it is not realistic to expect Jason to make a choice between his gf and a co-worker he doesn't know very well. In this case, I meant no overlap in a physical sense. If he winds up cheating with her, that's a pretty bad way to get a relationship started.
My advice to Courtney to withdraw interest is not encouragement to be coquettish – mostly I'm concerned that Courtney is going to wind up with a broken heart, and she needs to nip this in the bud. It sounds like she has really fallen for him, and he is not available. Piquing his interest is going to be a disaster if, in the end, he has absolutely no intention of leaving his gf. Because all that flirting feels risky and gets her invested.
I actually love your advice about coming clean to him, laying it on the line. In fact, I wish I'd included that in my post. Laying it on the line is always high-risk. But it also is potentially high-reward. As you say, it would enable her to know what's going on once and for all. Women have difficulty being forthright and direct, but I have found that men are good at communicating in this way. She's likely to get the truth from him, even if it is something she doesn't want to hear. Either way, she's better off.
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