Douchebag Math, or Player Population Control
Posted by Susan Walsh on Dec 8, 2009 in Hooking Up Realities, Relationship Strategies, What Guys Want |
Baaaahhh, I’ve just spent two days learning how to make a video! I’ve been wanting to do a video post for a while, so here’s my first attempt, made with my iPhone. I’m afraid it’s crudely done, but I think you’ll get the point. I really have only one burning question for you: Do I sound like Fran Drescher?
Related posts:
Yes! I've spent some time commenting on Game sites, and the biggest question I have is how Game can be put to effective use in LTRs. Not surprisingly, the general response amounts to “What the hell are you talking about? We're just trying to get laid!” haha. However, this knowledge of female psychology is essential. It's not playing games, it's really about personal development. Even if a guy “fakes it till he makes it” he will over time naturally inhabit those qualities of assertiveness and confidence. What becomes a real burden for men is assuming the qualities of a cad, i.e. using deception and lack of affection to keep women guessing and interested, when it's not part of their nature. That is the opposite of personal development.
Renu, I am so sorry you were in an accident that required you to be in the hospital! I am relieved that you are OK enough to be commenting on HUS!
Re the idea that he would do this for any friend? No way! No guy is going to make that kind of effort and personal sacrifice for a platonic friendship. He is telling you in every way he knows how that he cares for you. You need to let him know immediately that you value him enormously in your life. Just tell him he is very important to you, and that it has been incredibly wonderful having him nearby. He'll undoubtedly be able to take it from there. But he'll need a sign from you (and soon) that he isn't making an idiot of himself.
Steveo, do you know Omega Man? I think you would like his blog, he is doing good work. I recently read this post on his blog and I highly recommend it:
http://gameforomegas.wordpress.com/2009/11/19/s...
Steveo, reread what ExNewYorker has said here. The reason that women are responsive to cads is because they display social dominance with their cocky attitudes and aggression. Why would this appeal to women? Because 10,000 years ago those were the men who brought home the bacon, so to speak. And humans evolve a lot more slowly than society changes. This is where Game has it right about women. I don't think women lack decency, I think that often (not always by any means), particularly when they are young, they haven't learned to resist those destructive impulses. In their naivety they choose short-term gratification over long-term fulfillment.
Nasser J, you have made a very important point. Not all women in college are looking for a serious relationship. There are plenty of women who feel that they have a very full plate with studies, work, etc. and adding a boyfriend into the mix just sounds like too much work. The problem occurs when these great girls go into a FWB arrangement, or hook up casually, and wind up feeling used and rejected. This is very common, and that's what your beautiful friend is complaining about. She knows hooking up with these guys is making her miserable, but that's the scene. If her alternative is to sit home in her dorm room every night, she's going to go for the hookup.
And yes, the cultural buffet of sex served up on screens in the comfort of our own homes – it's leading to really warped ideas for both sexes on what's “normal.” studies, both women and men tend to assume that 80%
the first tennant of game is self-respect. to respect yourself, you cannot mentally put other people (men or women) above you. do not worship the company of a woman, do not put them on a pedestal. that doesn't have to mean you mentally keep women beneath you (though that obviously works, hence asshole game), but you certainly cannot keep going believing getting laid will solve your problems.
i learned game in 2004 from david deangelo (http://www.doubleyourdating.com – don't bother buying any material, simply read the site and subscribe to the email updates). this was before the rise of the roissysphere. the advantage of his techniques over roissy, is that they are free from politics and judgement. when a man would write him and ask how to win back an ex-girlfriend, the reply would always be to ignore the ex and find somebody else. keep the bitterness and anger at bay, it instantly kills attraction.
i know the anxiety is crushing. i had a friend that didnt lose his virginity until he was 27. i, myself had a four year dry spell in my 20's. i completely agree that this is a silent epidemic, but the tools are there to fix it. learn to tease a woman you are interested in, practice online where rejection will have zero impact on your social status in real life, and go from there. i wish you luck stevo, if this high school/college loser can get married, then there is hope for my fellow losers.
I did thank him at the hosptial and later when I arrived home. I couldn't have imagined being there all alone. I am still working on getting my full strength back so we shall see what happens.
Gaaaahhhh, keep me posted! And if you are attracted to him, communicate that. He will think he is in the friend box unless you flirt or make some other move. Even contacting him and saying you'd like to see him would be a great start!
I honestly like what you're saying here. I'm not against learning “game” per se, and I think it is helpful to a lot of guys who have no idea how to think and act to attract women. I have a friend who is a pick-up artist and says that eventually, it becomes second nature and you are the confident person you portray. He used it to go from not very attractive to women to very successful, but he doesn't use women or secretly hate them, he literally told me he wanted to be able to find the best woman to marry and not let her get away once he had met her. Sweetest thing ever, he's now dating a great woman & has told me he plans to propose soon.
I feel like the danger is that a lot of guys, once they have success with women with these techniques, tend to abuse it because they're bitter at all of the time they've spent without getting any attention. So they take it out on the women they now have some measure of power over. I have mixed feelings about the pick-up community for this reason because I think there's a lot of vindictiveness sometimes, but I think the pickup thing can be great as long as it's not abused.
Well, I do agree with you to an extent of course. He did need to gain his confidences and learn how to put himself out there. You can be confident, assertive, and have other beneficial Alpha qualities without being a complete ASS. If he wanted to bag girls left and right then by all means live life. Just have respect when doing it. Don't bet on a female, don't get a girl drunk and then try and bag her, do not sleep with one girl at a party then go back to the party to sleep with her best friend. THOSE ARE DOUCHEBAGS!!
I have come across guys that have that confidence and can walk away with any female they choose but they are upfront about what they want. Sex with no strings attached. You'd be surprised how many females are down for the same thing. There is no need to be a freaking jerk to get what you want. That was my problem with his behavior bag as many females as you want but have respect when doing so.
I've also been a cautious advocate of “Game”, though I personally see it as a form of confidence building and self-improvement. But the idea is generally the same.
However, I say “cautious” advocate for a reason. And here I'm spilling some “game-improved” beta secrets: Beta-men self-improving like that isn't necessarily going to help the average woman. In fact, it'll probably make it worse for them.
How so? There are two scenarios:
In scenario one, beta-male now finds his cad/alpha attitude make him more successful with women. And he LIKES it, so much so that he really doesn't care to “settle” anymore and stick to one woman. To him, the cads/alphas were getting a bounty of women and now he can partake and fully enjoy the hookup culture. So what happens here is the beta in fact becomes a cad, and he doesn't want to change back. As you can imagine, the average woman now has one more cad to deal with, and one less good guy to find. In some cases, if the newfound alpha tires of the constant womanizing (it can happen, I suppose, or the jerk personality really doesn't fit), then they may move on to scenario two.
Scenario two consists of improved beta males who don't care to do the pump-and-dump of the cads (or scenario one guys who tire of that). They're looking to find a good quality woman for a long term relationship. With the game improvements, they too can date a lot, but not with the sole goal of just getting laid. They're actively looking for a worthwhile woman, like the guy verie44 mentions. In this case, Average Jane doesn't benefit because improved beta is going to be PICKY. He may date a lot of women, but he'll be quick avoid committing to or getting involved with someone who he doesn't feel is really worth it. So, how will be picky? Well, women with large number of past hookups are out, as are those who dated various alphas. Women who put careers in front of everything else are probably out too. And the guy will likely prefer somewhat younger (2-5 years), so yet another filter, and with no children or past divorces. The improved beta isn't being a jerk here, he's just being picky…just as the cleverer women were a decade before when they had the pick of the best betas.
Now the criticism of scenario two is the guy is passing over a lot of potential women with his pickiness. That's true, but if the guy in that case is patient and self-confident, and he's willing to wait for the right woman: why shouldn't he be picky? And as an improved beta, he dates as well, so he isn't lonely or lacks companionship. He may be a little bewildered by how few good women are out there, but he has time on his side, and he knows the good ones are out there.
I speak of scenario two from personal experience. I had a big crush on a girl in college who was a couple of years older than me. But, as a beta, I wound up just being friends, even though I did manage to ask her out, various times. But I wasn't assertive enough, and wound up flailing, more or less, and she just saw me as a friend. She was smart, pretty and not into flings or hookups, so she was a worthwhile woman. I continued to pine over her, even when visiting from grad school, but she just wanted me as a friend, even though I had the qualities she said she wanted in a guy. Half a dozen years later, out of the blue, she reappears and “asks how I was doing” through mutual friends. But I had adopted some of the alpha/cad behavior, so I had other options. And I had met a cute girl at a friend's wedding, a nursing student who hadn't partaken in hookup culture because she was shy and came from a working class family that couldn't afford her treating school as a party zone. So my college crush lost out when I changed my beta ways…and if she'd caught me a couple of years earlier, it might have been otherwise for her.
So. guys “stepping up” and learning game won't necessarily help the average woman out there…
The only solution is women changing their behavior?? Well, we are damned if we do and damned if we don't too.
If we sleep with you to early we're sluts and whores and not relationship worthy.
If we don't sleep with you soon enough we are prudes and frigid.
Yes, it's the ultimate inescapable logic that's so delicious here. There's some middle ground to be had, but it's got to be pretty inventive and subtle too. Which of course most immature drunken horny louts of both sexes just don't do in their 20's. I think most thinking folks will just write off much of the decade, or need to be looking for those few who are actively living 'apart'; from the toxic media culture that surrounds them. And yes, even something as simple as yes, more 'friendliness' can and does go a long way too. Surprisingly enough. So is the simple act of actually listening to each other. Even if you think 'Jack' across the table is deeply unworthy of you or your time, and you want to leave after seeing him secretly pick his nose or (horrors!) scratch his butt. Being willing to give people a 2nd chance at 'explaining themselves' (in a non Tiger sort of way here!). I can't tell you the number of single women I know who go out on dates and after an hour or so come back with 'Meh. Nice guy. Good Job. Funny, decent & polite & talented. But I was not feeling it. There was no spark'. Repeat as necessary until the music stops and the guys get much older in their 50's & more (and you're in your mid-upper 30's & early 40's). Then folks finally learn to listen a bit harder & more carefully. And they become a bit more tolerant of the 'lack of an immediate spark' at the 1st or 2nd date. All good thoughts that almost always come too late for the masses. Learning is hard on & for everyone evidently.
But as ever it's a complex puzzle that does indeed sound like we're caught in a cosmic 'Ground hog day' when often we can only incrementally try to improve life around the edges mainly by perfecting ourselves. Many guys do that, again to little or no avail in their 20's & 30's. It often goes wholly unrecognized for the time & effort it took. I can be the most sophisticated guy in my small town in many dimensions, and perhaps only my wife may actually be able to perceive this. It matters so little to many. Looks matter more. Height matters more. 'Tall dark & handsome' dudes with game, matter more to more women. The trick is to find those women who are actually Hard to deceive on those measures of true humanity that are available to be seen. Again that's rare to be found anywhere, and you need to be looking for it carefully. Cheers & Good Luck! 'VJ'
That's true…some women in college aren't ready for a serious relationship, particularly if they really are into their studies. Which happens, but it's too bad, cause those years are often the most productive for being able to pick off the best beta males. But if one is not ready, then there's no point in trying to force that. But it's still not a bad idea to make friends during those times. A couple of your of combat dating after college can make that old “just friends” guy seem a little better, and maybe he's grown up a little to boot…
And commenting on the video, Susan, you don't sound like Fran Drescher. I look forward to the next video production.
DBetty — When you write
“because we're sick of waiting around for the dad – the cads ask you out!”
it makes you seem completely committed to the idea that men should do all the asking, while if no one asked you would just sit around. This is quite traditional, and you may have reasons of your own to strongly prefer this arrangement. But you might do well to recognize that this insistence on your part comes with some real costs for you, even from a purely selfish perspective (and I'm really thinking beyond just the obvious here).
Think about this. The men who are most likely to ask you out, are the ones who do a lot of asking. Now, what kind of men are those? In order to do a lot of asking, a man has to suffer a lot of rejection, and to keep asking he needs to have a way to deal with all that rejection and still carry on. How are men likely to do this? Approaches vary, but a lot of the news is not good here. One way that a lot of men deal with extensive rejection is just not to let it get to them, by becoming very emotionally guarded and closed. Even if they're outwardly communicative it will be hard to develop a real connection with these men. Another way men deal is to devalue the rejectors, to decide that women's opinions don't count for very much, because women are shallow or stupid. These men can actually be very charming at first, but deep down are likely to be misogynistic and not good relationship material. You've probably seen numerous examples of both of these conditions in men; but I don't know if you realize how crushing the burden of non-stop rejection can be, to drive them to these reactions.
These are just the most common examples, but the main point is quite broad: men in the “Dad block” experience a whole lot of rejection, even by the time they're in college, and that _has_ to take its toll on their personalities. The result is typically bad, which shrinks the long-term supply of the kind of good men that you might want to have relationships with. At the same time, insisting that men always make the approach and then grading them on how well they do so, will preferentially select for charlatans and con men, those who spend a lot of time developing their openings but not so much on their actual personalities. So the “men do all the asking” arrangement that you seem to think is natural, does come with a rather high cost, both for them and for you.
[Update: Ah, I see this is just in time for Susan's next post!]
Thanks for sharing your story, I've always been curious about it and it's a great one. I love the happy ending. You know, I have no problem with you or any other guy being picky about what he wants. When you describe the dealkillers for an “improved beta,” you are talking about the choices a woman has made and should be held accountable for. That is fair. If you were talking about things beyond her control it would be different. But a woman with an extensive sexual history? Fair game. Or a woman who prioritizes career over relationships? Again, her decision. You prioritized finding a woman for a long-term relationship. You have every right to require similar values in your partner.
So yes, some women do lose out when betas step up their game. But I believe that quality women (NOT GGWs) benefit. And those are the women I'm rooting for!
[...] Original post: Douchebag Math, or Player Population Control | Hooking Up Smart [...]
Don't be such a moron. Stop making excuses when you know your behavior is the problem.
Double my dating? There's a problem here. 2 times 0 is still 0 so it won't make a difference for me.
Sorry I couldn't resist making that joke. The problem with all dating self help is that they assume that you have had at least a little bit of experience to draw on. There's nothing for the (soon to be) 30 year old virgin. They just assume that I can't possibly exist.
Don't know if you've seen this, but it's truly hilarious!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8tqEBQjWRws
Hi, msignal, thanks for commenting. Yes, I love that video! In fact, I used it in this post, The 12 Step Douchebag Recovery Program:
http://www.hookingupsmart.com/2009/11/17/hookin...
Don't know if you've seen this, but it's really hilarious.
We are douchebags
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8tqEBQjWRws
Hi, msignal, thanks for commenting. Yes, I love that video! In fact, I used it in this post, The 12 Step Douchebag Recovery Program:
http://www.hookingupsmart.com/2009/11/17/hookin...
I love love LOVEEEEEEEEEEE this video. Seriously Aunt Sue, this made me feel so much better about my current situation. I was on the verge of wanting to become a “girl gone wild” last year, but this seriously made me reconsider. I can't keep falling for these douchebags. I actually know a guy who is very sweet, polite and smart, he's so shy but one of the “nice” ones for sure, and I'm actually rethinking my situation with him because I'm finding myself slowly being attracted to him for some reason (he's had a huge crush on me in the past but I was young and immature and avoided him, but we're reconnecting now) breaking my never-ending streak of wanting to attract douches!
What you said was very true, and I totally agree with Nasser_J above me. So many girls my age hook up and think it's nothing, but I know I am not that type of girl and deep down I can NEVER be. After taking Douchebag 101, I will make SURE I never compromise my own beliefs just so I don't have to feel alone.
Thanks so much, your site is totally bookmarked.
Hahaha, Mani, thanks for appreciating my old-school, low-tech presentation! Nice to meet you, thanks too for commenting. Ah, I am rooting for sweet, polite, smart and shy! It can't work without attraction, obvs, so it's good that you are feeling drawn to him. Weaning ourselves off of the bad boys can be a challenge, but not doing so is certain misery.
I look forward to seeing more of you!