Douchebag Math, or Player Population Control
Posted by Susan Walsh on Dec 8, 2009 in Hooking Up Realities, Relationship Strategies, What Guys Want |
Baaaahhh, I’ve just spent two days learning how to make a video! I’ve been wanting to do a video post for a while, so here’s my first attempt, made with my iPhone. I’m afraid it’s crudely done, but I think you’ll get the point. I really have only one burning question for you: Do I sound like Fran Drescher?
Related posts:
That was good..
Thank you Rey!
love love loved it! so true! can't wait for your next video, and no you don't sound like fran drescher
Could that have been more perfect after what I e-mailed you today!!! LOVED IT!!! Totally brilliant and spot on!!!
First of all, I loved the handmade presentation! I'm sick of powerpoint (5 years of powerpoint lectures), and I believe that when you truly know your subject, you can explain anything with pen and paper
I especially loved “skull-sperm” at the end, haha
I had a question, though. According to your math, 40% of American girls are Girls Gone Wild. It kinda freaked me out. Is it really like that over there? Because over here, we do have “those” girls, but sadly for our male citizens, they're fewer and tend to keep a much lower profile.
The funny thing is, apparently the nasty 20/80 exists in nature as well. It has been said that 80% of the flu transmission is due to only 20% of the infected population (super spreaders). I even started looking around a bit while I wrote this comment and discovered the Pareto principle. I love this blog so much… In what other place would I learn about dating and economics simultaneously?
I'm really looking forward to the next video, and even more to put to practice the theory to (hopefully) find a nice, geeky, artsy guy.
And, no. There are still reruns of “The Nanny” around here. And you don't sound like her at all
XOXO MG (who, by the way, is pleased to report that she's been on her best behavior during her first two weeks of DB rehab, haha)
Your description of the problem is great. However, your solution needs a lot of work as in how to convince women of this.
If women really wanted to choose the “dad”, then they would have already done so, and we wouldn't have this problem. Telling women to choose the “dad” isn't going to change anything because women don't want the dad. Here is a man who gets it. He points out that women would rather become SINGLE MOTHERS than get together with “dads”, and that is what we see happening right now. Women would rather choose to be Tiger Woods' mistress #14 than get together with a dad. The behavior of women screams that they don't want “dads”, and this must be what they really want because otherwise they would change their behavior to pick “dads”.
OK the numbers are a bit troublesome here, but even more so was the essential history. Here it is via Wiki:
“Although the FDA approved the first oral contraceptive in 1960, contraceptives were not available to married women in all states until Griswold v. Connecticut in 1965 and were not available to unmarried women in all states until Eisenstadt v. Baird in 1972.[14][18]“
The social effects followed on from the technological breakthroughs. No easy availability of contraception (and abortion BTW), no 'sex revolution'. So it all started earlier (1960), and took awhile to gather real deep momentum in the population. The year 1967, '68 are not 'magical' no matter how much they're played up on late night TV or in the imaginations of those who can only speculate on the matter.
But the next issue is one of real life stats. Yes, 'most' & 'many' should be used liberally here. There are some 'slow' guys & gals having some sorts of sex. It might not be often enough to satisfy anyone, but it's indeed happening in many places. Few folks are actively 'shut-out' entirely, but yes, this is where the 'blowback' bitter reactions are coming from. From both men & women BTW.
My suspicions remain that the premier potential 'dads' league pairing with the 'smart gals' will involve about 10% of the population straight away. The idiots (happy & otherwise) pairing with the cads (real, play or imagined) might present the bulk of the reproductive cycle with about 60-70% of the pairings. The remaining 20-25% are crossers or various intermediate forms that can and will represent a fairly comfortable medium for many. reformed 'bad boys/girls' (it happens!), recovering whatevers, the 2nd-3rd chance mommies & daddies, the very late starters. So more realistically it's about 70-30%, with many aging out of the bottom into the top, and yes a few falling out of the top, to the bottom. (The late in life wild 'switch hitting' granny & swapping Gramps say.)
But there is movement & all this is tremendously variable & dependent upon very particular & unique circumstances. Whether Sergi ever got that 'pity screw' from that simple but playful not so secret middle school skank in 8-9th grade. Whether homely & lonely Sally ever went to the school dance with that polite budding physics scholar. Whether said physics/stats/math scholar ever got up enough nerve to ask out the one girl he liked in school who was at all nice to him. There's plenty of people who are not highly skilled in social situations and indeed may never be. In the past, this has not represented a very high 'barrier of entry' into the dad/mom sweepstakes. Nowadays? Seemingly more so.
But I'll also contend that other than trying to avoid some sort of tragic horror (Ginny, stay away from that 'nice' Republican co-worker Ted Bundy, there's something Very creepy about him and he lies like a rug!)? There's not much that can practically be done than to try and avoid the obvious pitfalls of an unwanted pregnancy or a tragically ill-suited marriage. And for the most part? Many of the smarter kids/young 'adults' today do just that. That's the main reason they're postponing marriage and serious LTR for so long, just to be 'certain'. And sometimes that works well, & sometimes not. Mostly it seems to do fine in the 'muddle along'/ 'good enough' mode & form of adventure. 'The situated conduct of partially knowing subjects' as it were.
In the end the situation is not as dire as it may seem, nor as tragic. It's just a huge waste of time for the many. And it will & seemingly does waste much of the 20 something decade for many doing not much but preening & primping & preparing for someone you may not even really like or fundamentally desire as a serious mate. Just to get some action or get laid. Now that may seem like a lot of wasted effort all around, but it's also our biological imperative & heritage speaking too. But you'll be damned before you ever get any action on a typical date by daring to mention that either! Cheers & Good Luck! 'VJ'
1. you couldn't sound LESS like The Nanny.
2. That was some great hand acting, Susan. Which makes me sound sarcastic (try saying it without sounding sarcastic, I dare you), but I promise my compliments are genuine.
3. Um, in response to someone else, why aren't girls doing this? because we're sick of waiting around for the dad – the cads ask you out! the cads are there and visible. It's like the hidden job market – it's always the best option for finding a job, but it's hard to tap into it. And we all want to get tapped – or something?
4. Hm, guess I don't have a four.
Haha, thank you Laura. I don't know where I got that New York accent! But I'm glad you liked my low tech old school video. New one in development!
Haha, Rebekah, when I got your email I thought, CAD! I hope I have motivated you to hold out a while longer!
Hey, MG, so glad this went over OK, thanks for the feedback. Re the GGW math, let me say right off the bat that I'm not using research there. I don't think that number has been quantified, haha. Also, the lines are blurry – there are a lot of girls who are acting pretty wild at the moment, but who would never grope another woman for the camera on Spring Break, for example.
What's really happened in the States is that there is media saturation with lots of GGW images and characters. And of course, men are watching a lot of porn. So there is enormous positive reinforcement from guys for openly sexual behavior. A girl can feel pretty “popular” if she is willing to act like a wild and crazy girl. Guys will want to make sure she is at every party. This is what drives more risk-averse girls to make poor choices. They don't want to be “that girl,” but they are under considerable pressure to be “fun.” Essentially, wild girls have redefined the behavioral norm.
Most men will understandably choose one long bachelor party over a monagamous relationship. Even if some nights are a bust, and things remain tame, there is always the promise of a wild and crazy chick showing up and putting on quite a show. It's embedded in the culture, and most of the guys in that 20% see no earthly reason to be someone's boyfriend.
By the way, there's a whole subset of porn that is “real college parties.” Basically, these companies show up and film people having sex right in the middle of a party. Usually it's just a few people going at it while everyone else watches with their beers in hand, but there's no question that they're real. And there are always tapes like this made at Mardi Gras too. It's a small percentage of parties, no doubt, but they are happening, and they're getting posted online.
Hmmm, how did I know you were a Spearhead type?
From the article: “young men appear to be a lot more wary even of long-term relationships with young women than they were only ten or fifteen years ago. Of course, the sluttiness of young American women is off the charts these days, so there isn’t much motivation for the young men to hook up long-term.”
Yes, we are in agreement on trends in American culture. But I do not share the outlook of these men who believe that marriage is always for suckers, women are always going to take their husbands to the cleaners, women will happily get “used up” by Alpha cads, then turn to Betas to provide for them. Are those women out there? Yes, and they come directly from the Girls Gone Wild part of the female population. There are many, many women who do not fit this description, who are seeking a real partnership. It's not reasonable or fair to paint a whole sex with this broad brush. Geez, these men advocate expatriating to Southeast Asia or South America to find a good wife and a good life. To them I say, “Don't let the American door hit you on the way out!”
Agreed re the Pill, abortion and timing of the Sexual Revolution. Hey, VJ, why are you letting these facts, I mean details, get in the way? The truth is the 60s was a heady mix of numerous technological breakthroughs coupled with the general anti-establishmentarianism engendered by the war.
Yeah, the cads and Girls Gone Wild will indeed reproduce, hence the scary looking sperm. Who knows what society will look like once they get a crack at parenting. Many of them will rise to the occasion, but I suspect the divorce rate among these folks will be very high. They will, after all, have had little relationship experience to fall back on. The most sexually experienced women will find their fun-loving ways a tough sell in a few years, and the most sexually experienced men will have been raised on a steady diet of no-strings sex and porn. Mutual respect and partnership seems like a lot to ask for from this group.
I agree that mostly what we're talking about is wasting time. I refer to it here as a waste of youth and beauty (and I could add fertility) for women. Their biological imperative is time-sensitive and at risk.
Decoybetty, you hit on a crucial point here (and the subject of a future blog post). The Dads need to step up big time. Get off your butt and man up! (Like Inspector Climate did!) There's a better way than mimicking awful guys who are all about the one-night stand. The truth is that many of the men in that disgruntled group would be a good match for a real relationship, but they need to be able to say to a woman. “You're cute, let's have coffee.” Unfortunately, the further apart men and women get, the more out of practice these guys are. Lots of confidence (and self-knowledge) comes from experience having relationships, both successful and unsuccessful. Far too few young people are getting the chance to practice.
I love love loved this video presentation. Not only is your view of the situation accurate but it was very entertaining. It is true the Dads need to step up there game ASAP!!
My best friend is by far the nicest, sweetest, and the funniest guy on the face of the Earth. Every time he confessed that he had a crush on a girl or made a move the girls would shut him down, no mercy. Both females were his closest friends (before me) and it ended up destroying their friendships. Now that he has pledged a latino frat he has gained confidence and with the loving help of his frat brothers has turned into a little bit of a jerk. He has even disclosed that he has betted on bagging a girl before, and he has lied to me about sleeping with a girl he was never with. He went from being someone who respected females even when they didnt respect themselves to acting like a jerk I know he isnt. Much to my surprise the females came flocking all of them trying to get with him. After I tore him a new one for acting like someone he wasnt he stopped the crap and is now in a committed relationship.
My other best friend is truly just a big lovable bear lol!! He is so sweet and caring. A wonderful guy but because he does not put himself out there he is not even on the radar of almost all the females on his campus. The girls that do know him have automatically put him in the friends zone because he is so nice, sweet, and caring. He really does listen when you have a problem and he is hesitant to make a move so girls toss him to the side without even giving him a second thought.
Hey, CCC, thanks for those testimonials! Ugh, I'm not surprised. I hope at least the Latino frats do not have toga parties! Seriously, though, you make an important point. And that is that frats and other organizations for guys, including sports teams, are important sources of friendship and bonding for men. There's a lot about the experience that I think is good for guys. Obviously, I wish they had a different attitude towards relationships, but the truth is, we have to draw the line in the sand. I'm glad you were able to call your friend out and that he stopped the nonsense. but until the females stop flocking to these guys nothing will change. That's why I suggest short-circuiting the whole process and going after the good guys.
Decoybetty you said it!! The dads need to step up. I believe that if more “dads” stepped up and gave the douchebags a run for their money we would be better off. But the dads are sit back and don't do anything.
Well to be honest while you are angry at him for turning into a jerk, he needed to. Not just so he could gain confidence but so he could have sex. I've always been wondering how people married each other as virgins. The ex must've been terrible, especially for the girl. At every point in someone's life they have to run wild. And to be honest I think it was a bad thing that you stopped him. You gave him a taste and then scolded him for chewing the meat too long. If you think he is done being that way i respectfully disagree with you. He now knows he can get some ass and the next time he gets a chance to get some ass with a girl that “looks” better than his LTR he might just take it. Mostly for the thought that “I wonder if I still got it”. Considering he was a long time beta his ideas would win throughout. Trust me, I was one too. So then I just started acting like an ass/ stepping my game up/ douching to an almighty level, and I got the sexual relationships I wanted. great stinking piles of meaningless crap. And then the inner Beta kicked in and I just thought “hey that was fun, but let's get back to real life”. Now I'm a graduate watching my friends going through the same transistion. So I'm telling you don't be suprised if he switches back to his latino frat self. He has to own that part of himself. See it to it's fullest extent, and then make a decision on how he wishes to be.
Oh. My. Gosh. Susan. You are freaking HILARIOUS. I died laughing at the part when you were describing the douches (sunglasses indoors, lifting up shirts, etc.). Thanks for the shot of humor on this dreary, rainy Wednesday!
It's so true – it's difficult to stay in that little box waiting patiently, and sometimes we girls (me, at least) venture off above into that bigger box and make some poor choices. Although that box may seem completely restrictive now, I have a feeling it's totally worth it in the end.
P.S. You totally don't sound like Fran. You actually sound very young!
Amazing! No, you absolutely do not sound like Fran! I've only commented once before, but just wanted to let you know I do read quite often. I find that your posts keep me motivated to keep holding out for the right Dad! Also, I find myself referring my beautiful friends who fall for douchebags to your site to quite often to share the wisdom! Love it!
Yeah. Loving the comments here too. But back to the actual history. (Shhhh, Have we lost the crowds?) See the bottom line? The 60's weren’t the 60's not really. It's reputation was media created and wildly hyped & over interpreted. They were really more like the 1970's. And despite all the media hype? For most of the population away from the big coastal cities? All that tremendous social & sexual change? Really took some time to sink in. Like 20 years or so actually in many places. And this can be followed using various social markers, demographics & statistics. 1970 is actually a decent dividing line, as is 1972-74 & 1980. Because really? In most respects most of the 1960's were not a whole lot different socially, (macroscopically) than much of the late 1950's. 1968 is a big year. But anti establishment? Hardly. A majority of the populace still supported the Vietnam war. Even after Tet too. It took a relatively long while for all the change to make itself felt or known widely. That's what I'm saying here.
And of course it's just that sort of yes, accurate historical quibbling that made the ladies hot for me way back when too. Yes indeed… Why I'm married to a once history major I guess too.
Getting back to the central premise here: the desired but troublesome “Mutual respect and partnership seems like a lot to ask for from this group”. Yes. And every social trend since seems to be pulling the sexes apart on this one axis of relationship and the (once) natural expectations of both women & men of a stable marriage partnership & family life & child rearing etc.
There's not much left to do but try to understand where we're at and how generally we got here. But overall? It's the women who ultimately choose the mating partners here. In apes as in humans. They decide & dictate what's the likelihood of encountering the 'funny, nice, sweet, caring' dudes in the general population. Mostly? They seem to be kicking many of these guys to the curb for most of their 20's, and yes, that does have some unfortunate consequences down the road. Delayed marriage is one, and fewer kids is another obvious one too. Now some of this is unfortunately economically determined too. But the trend for the middling ages (the women who are desiring to reproduce as adults or professional adults 28-36+ say) is not towards pairing with many older more 'secure & mature' gents siring many of these kids. That's where the numbers tell the tale. Plenty of 20 somethings 'pimp daddies' macking on teens from the 'hood & 'hinterlands' making for the 'baby daddy' phenomenon. But for the 'smart women/foolish choices' crowd? It's as ever the same old story. The cad more often gets the V card and the potential 'dad' gets the 'friend' card. Until years later when you'll perhaps get this strange regretful call of letter/note from a 40 something former paramour you lost out to that 'motorcycle dude' 20 years ago.
But there you go. Yes the 'shy guys' need to step up and become less shy. But really? It's far, far easier just to become an A-hole. That kills 2 birds with one stone. You lose the shyness, and you don't have to work on yourself much beyond the essentials of 'the game'. Everything else will fall into place for you. Conversely? Even if the shy guys 'step up their game'? They'll often be found 'wanting' somehow. They're naturally 'less exciting' than the cads. Most women (& guys) in their 20's thrive on and crave excitement & entertainment above all things. It's part of the youth culture deal, and all the media caters to it. I literally know plenty of nice talented guitar playing, singing, entertaining, joke making friendly, funny caring single guys in their 30-40's. Somehow it was never quite enough. And now they've more or less 'aged out' of most of the interest of the opposite sex.
So yes, there's plenty of hurt & frustration & anger behind all that PUA & 'outsourcing' deals & talk on the internet. Everyone sees what's going down, and seems mostly helpless to do much about it all. And above all everyone's afraid of (horrors!) Ever 'settling' for '2nd best'! I hate to tell you this folks, but most people? Pretty middling talents, mean intellects & wholly unable to spout either poetry or jokes on a whim. Even the sterling talents among us have just one or a few rare things about us. We might be unique. But were really not as entertaining as most of even silly TV. And certainly not as competitive visually at least to lots of even poor porn. Where are all the dudes? Indoors with the best entertainment options for their scarce dollars. Where are the ladies? Ditto. Reviving age old 'rescue'/princess/heroic fantasies that will never come to pass. Waiting for the hopeful glancing pass from that 'cute' but drunk DB/cad. Rejecting the hopeless, clumsy but genuinely shy approach from that studious but under socialized 'Beta/Omega' dude, who's not seen much action in years. A chronicle of fortunes foretold. Again & again, night after night. Until we get it right, or age out of the game. Cheers, 'VJ'
Susan — Fabulous work! an instant classic. I love the old-school format, it shows a lot of heart and really worked to get your points across.
DBetty & Rebekah — It's very easy to say that the solution to a problem is for people in the other camp to do more work! Does it seem possible to you that the boys/men in the Dad box are, actually, already stepping up? but that they're just getting rejected left and right? See chocolatechip's remark below re “the girls would shut him down, no mercy”; how much of that, really, should a decent man or boy to have to endure? Your proposed solution seems to be that boys/men should volunteer for nearly-continual rejection, taking all the immediate risk on themselves; while not even suggesting that girls/women need to do anything differently, like widening their vision or being more approachable (or, heaven forbid, actually making the first move themselves). Is that really what you mean to say?
>Hmmm, how did I know you were a Spearhead type?
I only found them a week ago. That makes me a “Spearhead type”?
>But I do not share the outlook of these men who believe that marriage is always for suckers, women are always going to take their husbands to the cleaners
I have seen men from every walk of life, rich or poor, urban, suburban, or rural, etc. get butt raped in divorce court. Friends, acquaintances, coworkers, etc. The list goes on and on. Do you actually deny this is happening? Do you deny that this is unconstitutional and the greatest denial of freedom today? Your “difference in outlook” does not change the reality men are dealing with every day.
>Get off your butt and man up!
Do you seriously think guys are just sitting around waiting for a girlfriend to fall on their lap? Susana if you can get past blaming men for getting rejected, maybe you can see what's really going on.
>Even if the shy guys 'step up their game'? They'll often be found 'wanting' somehow. They're naturally 'less exciting' than the cads.
This means the problem is female behavior, and the only solution is changing female behavior. However, Susana isn't going to do it with “choose the dad not the cad” because if women wanted the dad they would pick the dad, and we wouldn't have the situation of 80% of women going after 20% of men. Susana keeps saying they're miserable picking cads. That can't be since if women were miserable with cads they would stop going after them to end the misery. No one is holding a gun to womens' heads to make them pick cads.
>I literally know plenty of nice talented guitar playing, singing, entertaining, joke making friendly, funny caring single guys in their 30-40's.
It sounds like I'm going to age out next month when I turn 30 and become a 30 year old virgin that has never kissed and never had a girlfriend. Well, outside of a miracle in the next month.
So I figured out this week that I found a dad. I was in accident on Monday. I am doing fine but one guy friend spent two nights with me at the hospital while other girl/guy friends came to just visit. He stayed in the chair next to my bed, worked from the hospital, and even bought me flowers. I realize that I shouldn't let a guy like this go. He has never done anything to make it seem like he wants to be more than friends. I would think he would do this for any friend. So how do I let this guy not slip through the cracks?
Well, you referenced the Spearhead article, and I went to read it, and check out the comments as well. There I found two different men whaling on me as a punching bag, basically, calling me a stupid woman and bad mother. That's rough, because a large part of my identity is wrapped up in being smart and a good mother. I hope you can understand that? So I'm a little defensive when it comes to those guys…
I am no expert wrt divorce law. However, I do believe that most women enter marriage with every intent to make it work. There is a lot of complaining in the man sphere about men being persecuted for missing two child support payments, but it's also true that there are many deadbeat dads who are AWOL in caring for their own children. I've also heard a lot of complaining about alimony, but the women I know who have divorced are receiving zero alimony. One of them is actually paying alimony to her ex, because she was the primary bread winner and he was Mr. Mom. There are two sides to every story.
Aw, Dilithium, you are fast becoming a favorite of mine. You have legit beefs, but you are earnest and you seek to solve the problem, not just complain about it.
Re Decoybetty and Rebekah – Dilithium, you have to understand that for every pissed off and frustrated guy there is a disappointed woman. Is it so unreasonable for women to expect good men to go after what they want? Women are not aware of how men feel about this – it is human nature that we understand our own feelings, and must work to put ourselves in someone else's shoes. Until recently, I myself was not aware of the anger and resentment men are feeling.
I think women do need to be prepared to make some moves – I'll post tomorrow on that topic. However, that does not absolve men of responsibility. Step up and say what you want. Be prepared to say why you deserve it. Women will not be sexually attracted to a man who cannot do this, no matter what I say about the good guys.
ESCARONDITO! Welcome back, old friend. You speak great wisdom here. I understand completely the choices you have made. I give you credit for stepping your game up, that was good strategy. But I'm also happy that your inner Beta kicked in. I do love the Beta males. I married one and gave birth to one!
All in all, you seem like a man who wants the best for himself, but acknowledges that sex without real feeling is inferior. I respect that.
Haha, Jacqueline, you are most welcome! Yes, you are one of the women holding out for the Real Deal, and as I said in the video, I commend that, because I know it is hard. I respect your decision to wait for a man who is worthy of you and willing to take sex seriously. In my opinion, sex is serious business, there's nothing casual about it.
Jacqui, thank you for commenting! I really appreciate your feedback, and also your spreading the word about HUS. If there's ever a topic you want to see covered, or a particular question you have, shoot me an email!
Steveo, I'm sorry to hear that. If it matters all that much to you (and it might), I'd look for some professional help. The ones w/o the professional psyche degrees. (Not necessarily needed we imagine). For the gals it's easier to dispose of the original 'V card' here. Yes, even for the average looking gals. For the guys? It's like a complicated chess game sometimes, depending on any number of highly complex & moving variables. Just break it down and buy some. Wear the rain hat & always play safe though. And no, I cannot imagine this actually making much of a real difference to any future serious relationship, and of course, no one needs to be told of it either. But really? It's everyone's problem. The suffering and misery of the many should never easily be tolerated by the few.
And renu? Any serious display of such serious kindness & caring especially by a friend and no relation should be likewise carefully considered & appreciated. It's a really good indication of their adult & mature approach to human relationships, even ones that might not be 'rewarding' them in any great or discernable way presently. It marks him as a good risk & bet for a good partner in a LTR, and really? Little else will do that definitively. This does & will. Mark it well & at least recognize it and appreciate it. And tell him that you deeply appreciate it. It'll grow from there hopefully. Cheers & Good Luck! 'VJ'
Oh, VJ, it is rather late for me, and I need to sleep, but your observations are always worth considering and responding to!
You're right about the 60s and the media. Hippies made for great press coverage. Kent State ditto. But hippies were never a majority – even then we knew that they were outliers. The media couldn't get enough of it, though, and through the ages we romanticize that era, just as we have romanticized every prosperous era.
Re the cads vs. dads dilemma: I don't think women are figuring this out as late as you think they are. This is perhaps different by race, education level, etc. However, nearly all of the women of my acquaintance married dads, not cads. And they did so in their late 20s to early 30s, generally.
OK, VJ, I've just read your last couple of paragraphs, and I find it all too, too depressing. “Until we get it right, or age out of the game.” Yes, that's it. We always seem to be at cross purposes. So many people wanting to connect and failing to do so. It's overwhelming, all this sadness. It makes me want to take charge and arrange all the marriages. I am quite certain I could do a fine job. Because these young people are so risk-averse, so calculating in their methods, I imagine many forfeited opportunities for happiness. Such a waste.
Steveo, Of course “dads” aren't waiting for a girlfriend to just fall into their lap. But just like the girls are not making smart decisions in going for the cads, many times the guys aren't making smart decisions going for girls. I don't think Susan is blaming the guys for getting rejected. That's horrible.
>If it matters all that much to you (and it might), I'd look for some professional help. The ones w/o the professional psyche degrees. (Not necessarily needed we imagine).
What matters more is what it represents, total rejection by women everywhere. I'm undecided on going to a “professional” at this point. I would want to do it where it was legal so there is a bit of planning involved. My big decision is figuring out whether this would makes things better or worse. It could cause me to start thinking the only way I can get sex is by paying for it. I also might do a girlfriend experience which is the bad scenario makes me think the only way I can get a girlfriend is by paying a woman to pretend she's my girlfriend.
Of course, if this goes on for another couple of years (and I'm certain it will barring a miracle), I will probably do it anyway.
>But really? It's everyone's problem. The suffering and misery of the many should never easily be tolerated by the few.
And this is what is most telling about all this. We know the problem is female behavior. Susana wants to believe that women just “don't know” to pick dads. The fact is the only way this is happening is by women knowing exactly what they are doing. And this represents a fundamental lack of human decency on the part of (most) women.
Of course that isn't want I meant to say. In fact I don't think I really said anything bad about dad-guys at all. I used to have a theory that I'd give my number to anyone who asked because it happened so rarely – how's that for a widened vision? I totally sympathise with your side. Rejection sucks. Dating kind of sucks though it often ends in hurt feelings on both sides and both sides are at fault. But being in love kind of rocks – so hold out. Aw, Shucks, Inspector Climate has pushed me even more to the optimistic mushy side! Ye Gods!
Haven't you heard Steveo? Don't blame the playa, blame the game
I am kidding.
Sort of.
That's the point that's often lost here. The guys? Have to be able to eventually get used to rejection Every Fri/Sat night. Potentially? Yes, perhaps even for years if not decades. Sorry, that's the sad facts of life. That's why the Game is useful to better your odds here. You've got to go out & be willing to take it on the chin, and try to learn a bit each time you fall or fail. It's the ultimate hard brutal facts of life. And no, most women will never really know or fully appreciate that fact. (Don't worry, we don't understand childbirth or much of childhood bonding either).
So yes since time immemorial, guys have been enduring such 'near continual' rejections, & bearing most of such immediate risks themselves. For women, the risks come during pregnancy & after and typically were of longer duration. Less acute, baring unacceptable violence, but lasting far longer.
Ideally the 'sexual revolution' was supposed to be able to 'liberate' women to be actually able to ask men out, simply, perhaps even non dramatically. But really? This almost never happens for some strange reason. (Probably too much influence from 'Rules' loving ill guided 'tradition bound' gals & frustrated mommas). Ditto for the women paying for any of it, typically too. Why is that? Why is it that there's plenty of 'hooking up' for some, but really little action by & for women asking the guys out? Why are we somehow wedded to these ancient strictures long after they've ceased to apply to 'modern society', or are much useful at all to anyone? Who does it help that we're constantly be remonstrated by almost all women that 'You Must Never, NEVER call Him!!'
In this modern age it's seemingly difficult enough even get noticed. But to get a phone call actually returned by a 'live girl' in a timely fashion? That evidently requires some missing intricate calculus of 'is he worthy enough to speak to me?' Or 'What do my friends think of him?' Or 'my friends have to first see him to approve of him!' But here's the rub! You've got to, Repeat GOT TO actually 'make the Ask By Phone!' No, they'll seemingly never even consider 'dating' you if you dare a.) first text/IM them or b.) or (Oh the calamity old man!) Email them! No matter how long you've known them or how well. There's only one Gold Standard. The telephone, invented in yes, in 1876. And often very busy in any girls/woman's life. So yeah, try actually calling the average of 20 something gal for a date. Weeks later, after none of your dozens of phone calls have been returned, (Such! A Lame Guy!) then get on a conference call with a half dozen of her pals quizzing you on various & sundry to see if you'll meet to their group expectations. Just to get to a first date! Now do that doggedly, routinely for oh say the 10 years between 17-27 say. Then tell us just how tired & frustrated you might be.
Then step up ladies. It's a job & you've got to be part of the process & possible solution too. If you want kids before everything goes South & 'dries up'? Before you need 20K+ a throw for the IVF injection and/or adoption route? Try just walking up to a likely prospect, smiling and simply asking. I'm betting you'll seldom be rejected. I've got no idea why it's so damn difficult though! Cheers & Good Luck! 'VJ'
>you referenced the Spearhead article
I referenced the comment by “whiskey”, not the whole article. (Regardless the article is correct.) I couldn't find whiskey attacking you anywhere.
Maybe it would help to learn what's going on with divorce. I have traveled plenty and met men from all walks of life. They all are getting the message that marriage is dangerous. They could end up losing all of their assets. They could end up losing their kids. They could end up paying child support for children they didn't father. They could end up in jail because of a vindictive ex makes up a story that they abused them or their children. etc. etc. etc. Why are men (rich or poor, black or white) from all walks of life coming to this conclusion? Because they have seen it happen to men they know, fathers, brothers, uncles, coworkers, friends, etc. This is an epidemic and its very hard to miss. Even if you think we're all crazy, you better find out why because millions of men are coming to this conclusion.
Screw that. I've had it. I'm blaming the players and the playettes, all of them.
>many times the guys aren't making smart decisions going for girls
You don't know that since they aren't getting any. You have no way of guessing what their decisions are since the results are rejection only.
The problem is that even if the good guys make a move, it's usually not in the same way that the alphas and cads do. So, instead of it being welcome, the poor beta's advances are seen unfavorably: “I wish we just could stay friends”. So the beta is damned if he doesn't (“I wish the dads would step up”) or damned if he does (“I don't feel that way about you”).
Now I can understand the attraction of the alpha and cads. They can be very charming (of course, they “share” that charm with lots of other women). They know what they want and go for it (of course, they want if from more than one woman). They have can have a strong personality (which they share with more than one woman). Heck, I like hanging out with them myself once in a while, since it can be a load of fun (and you can learn the reality of what really attracts a majority of women). The sad thing is that for the average beta, it does take adopting some of the cads/alphas qualities to be in the dating game. And it's sad because once one tastes success that way, it's not that hard to really go the jerk route and stay that way. It's hard to argue with success.
Which always amazed me about women: it really is in their own best interest to make some moves (and they don't need to world changing moves) and pick out the best betas early. I saw the cleverer women do that in college, which is the perfect time for it…where else are your marks that easy to study (their friends/family,studies) and weed out? Some other women weren't ready yet then, and waited till their later in their 20's, but they often relied on their friendship networks to make sure they were still getting good betas. But after that time, it becomes harder. The remaining betas can be bitter, or they can afford to be picky themselves (if they've learned some techniques from the alphas/cads). Or they've dropped out, in which case, the women really do have to make the first move (and a lot more strongly).
Of the friends my wife and I each had in college, most of the women did marry “dads, not cads”, most of which they met within their undergrad years. Of the friends we made after college, at least half suffered from early divorce, or had some bad relationships. So maybe there was something in the water of our colleges that made those relationships strong.
My wife works in a field where it's mostly women, and the younger ones are in even more dire straits these days. The men aren't even trying nowadays, but if our company holiday parties are any indication, why would they? They can get all the hookups they want and more, so it's nirvana for the cads.
I do remember over a dozen years ago or so ago, my Mom and a friend of hers jokingly mentioning that they needed to set me up with some of their friends daughters. However, after seeing the parade of cads the daughters actually preferred, they didn't really pursue that line of humor anymore (heck, they actually then counseled me to postpone marriage as much as possible). So color me a little skeptical about the “arranged marriages”
Though, it probably wouldn't be any worse than today's situations…
Not all betas remain nice betas after tasting success behaving as an alpha (being a cad as some benefits). And I can't really blame them for following the Dark side.
But I can understand the inner beta returning…particularly if it being a cad conflicts with one's true personality. For some of us, it's hard being a cad permanently…
However, I do think that any beta guy in a LTR MUST retain some alpha/cad qualities (the assertiveness, decisiveness and confidence). This doesn't necessarily mean being a jerk (though that works too, sadly enough), but a guy needs to be able to be a decision-maker and have a healthy self-esteem. Otherwise, you can revert to being a pushover, and most women don't care for pushovers.
i agreed with your video analysis, but what is scary is that among the 80% idiot girls there is a huge number of them who are smart, but because it is becoming a norm to hook up ,be sexually active, and be desirable they indulge in stupid relationships. but things change as they get older, i know two girls on campus, one is a 21 year old beautiful girl who keeps complaining that she cant find the right guy because she attracts or falls for douchbags and she knows its wrong but she says” i am 21, its the age, so i do as what a 20-25 would do”. and the other one is 29 year old who lived a wildlife, and now has a nice guy from the bottom 80% percent of your men chart, and she says she is falling in love with him but she would not have even considered him if she was 20-25. so i decided, since i bar tend, and i dont have any hard finals this semester, to ask girls about this, and the result was that most of them know they engage in stupid affairs but because, its the age to do it, its fine. they postulate that .. now is for fun, a degree, a job , more fun… then later maybe, we think about Dads etc… ironically this is all a result of economics and our inclination to become irrational consumers of everything offered to us via the media and other social paradigms, resulting in an ideology that says “hey its ok to hook up” because it is much cheaper to hook up than actually date, and as susan stated there is an enormous supply of women for small amount of men – that being especially for students , and i am guilty of it too- and furthermore the social conditioning of young men and women by our media that allows idiocy to grow with shows about kim kardashian , jeresy shore, the hills, and everything else MTV and similar venues provide for us… , it feels like as if we are cattle who just consume what is given to us… and let it be. and that is scary
Susan Walsh is utterly unqualified to discuss the subject of contemporary dating.
Men should 'man up'? Hogwash. American women stopped being women long before men started to reject them in favor of foreign women.
PlusPlus, you conveniently ignore that feminists have made divorce laws such that marriage is no longer an attractive prospect for men. The men who still marry today are simply uninformed of the laws.
Telling men to 'man up' while backstabbing them with feminist laws is ignorant on your part, and reveals you as unqualifed to discuss this subject.
Your discussion on qualifications is stupid. Susan is more qualified than most of the dating experts out there — she's been to one of the top three business schools in the country and applies the kind of formulaic problem solving they teach there to this problem. You can't say someone's unqualified & ignorant simply because they don't agree with you.
Anyone can say anyone is unqualified for anything. You yourself are unqualified to comment on this topic, especially as an anonymous poster — anything less than a JD accompanied with a degree in American studies, international relations and psychology makes your opinions invalid by this kind of reasoning.
I know from your comments about “foreign women” that you're not referencing any foreign Western European women (who act very similarly to Americans), but are probably talking about women from third world countries. Having a mother that comes from such a country (and who was fortunate enough to escape with her family at a young age), I can tell you that these women that you idealize so much are desperate. They will shack up with a foreigner to get away from their poverty & often misogynistic culture in a heartbeat. Men who are 2s and 3s out of 10 in desirability in the US can feel like gods in these places where women are desperate to get a green card. So yes, some men are trying to “get foreign women” in this manner. Sounds like they're taking advantage of a bad situation though, doesn't it?
But before I say more, I have to ask what your definition of “acting like women” is.
Steveo, I know that you are correct in that the problem of anger among men re divorce and finance is real. A couple of weeks ago the New York Times magazine feature article was about the men who are paying child support for children who turn out to be someone else's (biologically speaking). The number of children thought to be unrelated to the men who believe they are the father is estimated at 8-15%. So yeah, there are a lot of women behaving badly. And a lot of men feeling pissed off. When one looks at the picture of marriage trends in the U.S. over the next 10 years, it is troubling.
However, the mating game will continue, right on until humanity becomes extinct. We are meant to reproduce. And along the way, each one of us will encounter many bumps in the road. Why I'm trying to do here is support the individual in his or her search for that mate. I'm writing about the bumps in the road, and how we can avoid crashing and going up in flames when things get a little rough. I'm trying to help people get to the destination I'll call Love, as corny as that sounds.
ENY, you and I are totally on the same page here. Only it sounds even more compelling coming from a man who's lived it. My own sense is that the solution to the problem is going to require girls and guys to meet halfway. Women are going to have to take responsibility for making more moves and indicating their interest to Dads, who are understandably gun shy. Women tend to rely on the old script where Prince Charming shows up and confidently declares his undying love. Well, Prince Charming is AWOL, and women need a new script. And it's going to be one where they have a lot more lines.
Guys also need to step up their game. The idea of Game, or using a knowledge of female psych to attract women is not inherently bad. I have no problem with it. My own objections come about in the way this knowledge is sometimes applied and, in my view, abused. I think there is room for men to learn about women and what makes them attracted in a way that benefits both sexes. Guys won't find that on the seduction sites, though. As you say, in the end it's much easier for them to imitate cads.
But I believe if we can break the cycle of extreme negative reinforcement, we will be onto something. That is something that has to happen person by person, interaction by interaction.
“Then step up ladies. It's a job & you've got to be part of the process & possible solution too. If you want kids before everything goes South & 'dries up'? Before you need 20K+ a throw for the IVF injection and/or adoption route? Try just walking up to a likely prospect, smiling and simply asking. I'm betting you'll seldom be rejected. I've got no idea why it's so damn difficult though!”
THIS IS IT, RIGHT HERE. THE SECRET TO SUCCESS. Women must become active rather than passive. Your ovaries are counting on you!
Yes! I've spent some time commenting on Game sites, and the biggest question I have is how Game can be put to effective use in LTRs. Not surprisingly, the general response amounts to “What the hell are you talking about? We're just trying to get laid!” haha. However, this knowledge of female psychology is essential. It's not playing games, it's really about personal development. Even if a guy “fakes it till he makes it” he will over time naturally inhabit those qualities of assertiveness and confidence. What becomes a real burden for men is assuming the qualities of a cad, i.e. using deception and lack of affection to keep women guessing and interested, when it's not part of their nature. That is the opposite of personal development.
Renu, I am so sorry you were in an accident that required you to be in the hospital! I am relieved that you are OK enough to be commenting on HUS!
Re the idea that he would do this for any friend? No way! No guy is going to make that kind of effort and personal sacrifice for a platonic friendship. He is telling you in every way he knows how that he cares for you. You need to let him know immediately that you value him enormously in your life. Just tell him he is very important to you, and that it has been incredibly wonderful having him nearby. He'll undoubtedly be able to take it from there. But he'll need a sign from you (and soon) that he isn't making an idiot of himself.
Steveo, do you know Omega Man? I think you would like his blog, he is doing good work. I recently read this post on his blog and I highly recommend it:
http://gameforomegas.wordpress.com/2009/11/19/s...
Steveo, reread what ExNewYorker has said here. The reason that women are responsive to cads is because they display social dominance with their cocky attitudes and aggression. Why would this appeal to women? Because 10,000 years ago those were the men who brought home the bacon, so to speak. And humans evolve a lot more slowly than society changes. This is where Game has it right about women. I don't think women lack decency, I think that often (not always by any means), particularly when they are young, they haven't learned to resist those destructive impulses. In their naivety they choose short-term gratification over long-term fulfillment.
Nasser J, you have made a very important point. Not all women in college are looking for a serious relationship. There are plenty of women who feel that they have a very full plate with studies, work, etc. and adding a boyfriend into the mix just sounds like too much work. The problem occurs when these great girls go into a FWB arrangement, or hook up casually, and wind up feeling used and rejected. This is very common, and that's what your beautiful friend is complaining about. She knows hooking up with these guys is making her miserable, but that's the scene. If her alternative is to sit home in her dorm room every night, she's going to go for the hookup.
And yes, the cultural buffet of sex served up on screens in the comfort of our own homes – it's leading to really warped ideas for both sexes on what's “normal.” studies, both women and men tend to assume that 80%
the first tennant of game is self-respect. to respect yourself, you cannot mentally put other people (men or women) above you. do not worship the company of a woman, do not put them on a pedestal. that doesn't have to mean you mentally keep women beneath you (though that obviously works, hence asshole game), but you certainly cannot keep going believing getting laid will solve your problems.
i learned game in 2004 from david deangelo (http://www.doubleyourdating.com – don't bother buying any material, simply read the site and subscribe to the email updates). this was before the rise of the roissysphere. the advantage of his techniques over roissy, is that they are free from politics and judgement. when a man would write him and ask how to win back an ex-girlfriend, the reply would always be to ignore the ex and find somebody else. keep the bitterness and anger at bay, it instantly kills attraction.
i know the anxiety is crushing. i had a friend that didnt lose his virginity until he was 27. i, myself had a four year dry spell in my 20's. i completely agree that this is a silent epidemic, but the tools are there to fix it. learn to tease a woman you are interested in, practice online where rejection will have zero impact on your social status in real life, and go from there. i wish you luck stevo, if this high school/college loser can get married, then there is hope for my fellow losers.
I did thank him at the hosptial and later when I arrived home. I couldn't have imagined being there all alone. I am still working on getting my full strength back so we shall see what happens.
Gaaaahhhh, keep me posted! And if you are attracted to him, communicate that. He will think he is in the friend box unless you flirt or make some other move. Even contacting him and saying you'd like to see him would be a great start!
I honestly like what you're saying here. I'm not against learning “game” per se, and I think it is helpful to a lot of guys who have no idea how to think and act to attract women. I have a friend who is a pick-up artist and says that eventually, it becomes second nature and you are the confident person you portray. He used it to go from not very attractive to women to very successful, but he doesn't use women or secretly hate them, he literally told me he wanted to be able to find the best woman to marry and not let her get away once he had met her. Sweetest thing ever, he's now dating a great woman & has told me he plans to propose soon.
I feel like the danger is that a lot of guys, once they have success with women with these techniques, tend to abuse it because they're bitter at all of the time they've spent without getting any attention. So they take it out on the women they now have some measure of power over. I have mixed feelings about the pick-up community for this reason because I think there's a lot of vindictiveness sometimes, but I think the pickup thing can be great as long as it's not abused.
Well, I do agree with you to an extent of course. He did need to gain his confidences and learn how to put himself out there. You can be confident, assertive, and have other beneficial Alpha qualities without being a complete ASS. If he wanted to bag girls left and right then by all means live life. Just have respect when doing it. Don't bet on a female, don't get a girl drunk and then try and bag her, do not sleep with one girl at a party then go back to the party to sleep with her best friend. THOSE ARE DOUCHEBAGS!!
I have come across guys that have that confidence and can walk away with any female they choose but they are upfront about what they want. Sex with no strings attached. You'd be surprised how many females are down for the same thing. There is no need to be a freaking jerk to get what you want. That was my problem with his behavior bag as many females as you want but have respect when doing so.
I've also been a cautious advocate of “Game”, though I personally see it as a form of confidence building and self-improvement. But the idea is generally the same.
However, I say “cautious” advocate for a reason. And here I'm spilling some “game-improved” beta secrets: Beta-men self-improving like that isn't necessarily going to help the average woman. In fact, it'll probably make it worse for them.
How so? There are two scenarios:
In scenario one, beta-male now finds his cad/alpha attitude make him more successful with women. And he LIKES it, so much so that he really doesn't care to “settle” anymore and stick to one woman. To him, the cads/alphas were getting a bounty of women and now he can partake and fully enjoy the hookup culture. So what happens here is the beta in fact becomes a cad, and he doesn't want to change back. As you can imagine, the average woman now has one more cad to deal with, and one less good guy to find. In some cases, if the newfound alpha tires of the constant womanizing (it can happen, I suppose, or the jerk personality really doesn't fit), then they may move on to scenario two.
Scenario two consists of improved beta males who don't care to do the pump-and-dump of the cads (or scenario one guys who tire of that). They're looking to find a good quality woman for a long term relationship. With the game improvements, they too can date a lot, but not with the sole goal of just getting laid. They're actively looking for a worthwhile woman, like the guy verie44 mentions. In this case, Average Jane doesn't benefit because improved beta is going to be PICKY. He may date a lot of women, but he'll be quick avoid committing to or getting involved with someone who he doesn't feel is really worth it. So, how will be picky? Well, women with large number of past hookups are out, as are those who dated various alphas. Women who put careers in front of everything else are probably out too. And the guy will likely prefer somewhat younger (2-5 years), so yet another filter, and with no children or past divorces. The improved beta isn't being a jerk here, he's just being picky…just as the cleverer women were a decade before when they had the pick of the best betas.
Now the criticism of scenario two is the guy is passing over a lot of potential women with his pickiness. That's true, but if the guy in that case is patient and self-confident, and he's willing to wait for the right woman: why shouldn't he be picky? And as an improved beta, he dates as well, so he isn't lonely or lacks companionship. He may be a little bewildered by how few good women are out there, but he has time on his side, and he knows the good ones are out there.
I speak of scenario two from personal experience. I had a big crush on a girl in college who was a couple of years older than me. But, as a beta, I wound up just being friends, even though I did manage to ask her out, various times. But I wasn't assertive enough, and wound up flailing, more or less, and she just saw me as a friend. She was smart, pretty and not into flings or hookups, so she was a worthwhile woman. I continued to pine over her, even when visiting from grad school, but she just wanted me as a friend, even though I had the qualities she said she wanted in a guy. Half a dozen years later, out of the blue, she reappears and “asks how I was doing” through mutual friends. But I had adopted some of the alpha/cad behavior, so I had other options. And I had met a cute girl at a friend's wedding, a nursing student who hadn't partaken in hookup culture because she was shy and came from a working class family that couldn't afford her treating school as a party zone. So my college crush lost out when I changed my beta ways…and if she'd caught me a couple of years earlier, it might have been otherwise for her.
So. guys “stepping up” and learning game won't necessarily help the average woman out there…
The only solution is women changing their behavior?? Well, we are damned if we do and damned if we don't too.
If we sleep with you to early we're sluts and whores and not relationship worthy.
If we don't sleep with you soon enough we are prudes and frigid.
Yes, it's the ultimate inescapable logic that's so delicious here. There's some middle ground to be had, but it's got to be pretty inventive and subtle too. Which of course most immature drunken horny louts of both sexes just don't do in their 20's. I think most thinking folks will just write off much of the decade, or need to be looking for those few who are actively living 'apart'; from the toxic media culture that surrounds them. And yes, even something as simple as yes, more 'friendliness' can and does go a long way too. Surprisingly enough. So is the simple act of actually listening to each other. Even if you think 'Jack' across the table is deeply unworthy of you or your time, and you want to leave after seeing him secretly pick his nose or (horrors!) scratch his butt. Being willing to give people a 2nd chance at 'explaining themselves' (in a non Tiger sort of way here!). I can't tell you the number of single women I know who go out on dates and after an hour or so come back with 'Meh. Nice guy. Good Job. Funny, decent & polite & talented. But I was not feeling it. There was no spark'. Repeat as necessary until the music stops and the guys get much older in their 50's & more (and you're in your mid-upper 30's & early 40's). Then folks finally learn to listen a bit harder & more carefully. And they become a bit more tolerant of the 'lack of an immediate spark' at the 1st or 2nd date. All good thoughts that almost always come too late for the masses. Learning is hard on & for everyone evidently.
But as ever it's a complex puzzle that does indeed sound like we're caught in a cosmic 'Ground hog day' when often we can only incrementally try to improve life around the edges mainly by perfecting ourselves. Many guys do that, again to little or no avail in their 20's & 30's. It often goes wholly unrecognized for the time & effort it took. I can be the most sophisticated guy in my small town in many dimensions, and perhaps only my wife may actually be able to perceive this. It matters so little to many. Looks matter more. Height matters more. 'Tall dark & handsome' dudes with game, matter more to more women. The trick is to find those women who are actually Hard to deceive on those measures of true humanity that are available to be seen. Again that's rare to be found anywhere, and you need to be looking for it carefully. Cheers & Good Luck! 'VJ'
That's true…some women in college aren't ready for a serious relationship, particularly if they really are into their studies. Which happens, but it's too bad, cause those years are often the most productive for being able to pick off the best beta males. But if one is not ready, then there's no point in trying to force that. But it's still not a bad idea to make friends during those times. A couple of your of combat dating after college can make that old “just friends” guy seem a little better, and maybe he's grown up a little to boot…
And commenting on the video, Susan, you don't sound like Fran Drescher. I look forward to the next video production.
DBetty — When you write
“because we're sick of waiting around for the dad – the cads ask you out!”
it makes you seem completely committed to the idea that men should do all the asking, while if no one asked you would just sit around. This is quite traditional, and you may have reasons of your own to strongly prefer this arrangement. But you might do well to recognize that this insistence on your part comes with some real costs for you, even from a purely selfish perspective (and I'm really thinking beyond just the obvious here).
Think about this. The men who are most likely to ask you out, are the ones who do a lot of asking. Now, what kind of men are those? In order to do a lot of asking, a man has to suffer a lot of rejection, and to keep asking he needs to have a way to deal with all that rejection and still carry on. How are men likely to do this? Approaches vary, but a lot of the news is not good here. One way that a lot of men deal with extensive rejection is just not to let it get to them, by becoming very emotionally guarded and closed. Even if they're outwardly communicative it will be hard to develop a real connection with these men. Another way men deal is to devalue the rejectors, to decide that women's opinions don't count for very much, because women are shallow or stupid. These men can actually be very charming at first, but deep down are likely to be misogynistic and not good relationship material. You've probably seen numerous examples of both of these conditions in men; but I don't know if you realize how crushing the burden of non-stop rejection can be, to drive them to these reactions.
These are just the most common examples, but the main point is quite broad: men in the “Dad block” experience a whole lot of rejection, even by the time they're in college, and that _has_ to take its toll on their personalities. The result is typically bad, which shrinks the long-term supply of the kind of good men that you might want to have relationships with. At the same time, insisting that men always make the approach and then grading them on how well they do so, will preferentially select for charlatans and con men, those who spend a lot of time developing their openings but not so much on their actual personalities. So the “men do all the asking” arrangement that you seem to think is natural, does come with a rather high cost, both for them and for you.
[Update: Ah, I see this is just in time for Susan's next post!]
Thanks for sharing your story, I've always been curious about it and it's a great one. I love the happy ending. You know, I have no problem with you or any other guy being picky about what he wants. When you describe the dealkillers for an “improved beta,” you are talking about the choices a woman has made and should be held accountable for. That is fair. If you were talking about things beyond her control it would be different. But a woman with an extensive sexual history? Fair game. Or a woman who prioritizes career over relationships? Again, her decision. You prioritized finding a woman for a long-term relationship. You have every right to require similar values in your partner.
So yes, some women do lose out when betas step up their game. But I believe that quality women (NOT GGWs) benefit. And those are the women I'm rooting for!
[...] Original post: Douchebag Math, or Player Population Control | Hooking Up Smart [...]
Don't be such a moron. Stop making excuses when you know your behavior is the problem.
Double my dating? There's a problem here. 2 times 0 is still 0 so it won't make a difference for me.
Sorry I couldn't resist making that joke. The problem with all dating self help is that they assume that you have had at least a little bit of experience to draw on. There's nothing for the (soon to be) 30 year old virgin. They just assume that I can't possibly exist.
Don't know if you've seen this, but it's truly hilarious!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8tqEBQjWRws
Hi, msignal, thanks for commenting. Yes, I love that video! In fact, I used it in this post, The 12 Step Douchebag Recovery Program:
http://www.hookingupsmart.com/2009/11/17/hookin...
Don't know if you've seen this, but it's really hilarious.
We are douchebags
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8tqEBQjWRws
Hi, msignal, thanks for commenting. Yes, I love that video! In fact, I used it in this post, The 12 Step Douchebag Recovery Program:
http://www.hookingupsmart.com/2009/11/17/hookin...
I love love LOVEEEEEEEEEEE this video. Seriously Aunt Sue, this made me feel so much better about my current situation. I was on the verge of wanting to become a “girl gone wild” last year, but this seriously made me reconsider. I can't keep falling for these douchebags. I actually know a guy who is very sweet, polite and smart, he's so shy but one of the “nice” ones for sure, and I'm actually rethinking my situation with him because I'm finding myself slowly being attracted to him for some reason (he's had a huge crush on me in the past but I was young and immature and avoided him, but we're reconnecting now) breaking my never-ending streak of wanting to attract douches!
What you said was very true, and I totally agree with Nasser_J above me. So many girls my age hook up and think it's nothing, but I know I am not that type of girl and deep down I can NEVER be. After taking Douchebag 101, I will make SURE I never compromise my own beliefs just so I don't have to feel alone.
Thanks so much, your site is totally bookmarked.
Hahaha, Mani, thanks for appreciating my old-school, low-tech presentation! Nice to meet you, thanks too for commenting. Ah, I am rooting for sweet, polite, smart and shy! It can't work without attraction, obvs, so it's good that you are feeling drawn to him. Weaning ourselves off of the bad boys can be a challenge, but not doing so is certain misery.
I look forward to seeing more of you!