‘Cause it’s a woman’s world
Might as well face it
Yeah they got what we want and we’re willing to chase it
It’s a woman’s world, boys like it or not
Men buy the drinks, girls call the shots
Steve Holy
Should men buy drinks for women? It’s a topic I’ve heard hotly debated recently. Most of the heat comes from men who feel they’ve been suckered for long enough, and have sworn off buying women drinks forever. I’ve also encountered women who feel slighted if they go out and wind up paying for their own drinks. They’ll also contemptuously dismiss a date who doesn’t insist on paying the whole tab. Though men buying drinks for women is nothing new, this question is the latest salvo in the ongoing battle between of the sexes.
In my view, the problem can be broken down into two distinct but related components:
- Effectiveness
- Ethics
The Strategic Effectiveness of Buying Drinks
In Hollywood classic films, men in nightclubs routinely send champagne to women they’ve got their eye on. Or, if they’re feeling emboldened, they’ll walk right up to her and ask if they can buy her a drink. It’s playful, and it’s definitely an invitation. It’s foreplay.
In 2010, men still follow the same script, but its effectiveness has worn thin.
1. Often a group of guys will send a round of drinks over to a group of girls, then approach in hopes of combining forces. This strategy is like buying a lottery ticket – a win is possible but very unlikely. From the guys’ perspective, it’s unclear which, if any, of the women are available or interested. And it’s unclear to the women who’s after whom. Who’s the target? Who’s the wing?
Cost: Low
Risk: Low
Payoff: Low
2. A guy may send a drink over to one particular girl, reading her response carefully to determine whether he has a shot. The question is: A shot at what?
- Sex? Tonight?
- A phone number? For a date, or a booty call?
- Scintillating conversation?
Many women are wary of being singled out from afar in this way. They aren’t sure what the expectations are. Refusing a drink that’s already been prepared and delivered feels rude, but accepting it makes them feel obliged. If a woman looks up to identify the sender, and finds him attractive, how should she respond? What if she is not the least bit attracted to him? A girl practiced at accepting drinks from strangers may know how to play this moment expertly, but many women have no idea whether they are signaling thanks or an invitation to walk on over if they smile and wave.
A man who has sent the drink faces the risk of rejection, but his physical distance from his target mitigates his embarrassment. For many men, this is easier than a direct approach, but it’s also easier for a woman to turn down a guy from afar. He may well have no opportunity to charm her.
Cost: Low
Risk: Moderate
Payoff: Low
3. A man walks up to a woman in a bar and asks her if he can buy her a drink. If she accepts, he feels that she has indicated interest. Or at least he feels that she should be interested. He will be very annoyed if she accepts the drink and then turns her back to him. The woman accepting the drink figures the offer is unconditional, or should be. If a woman is definitely not interested, and wants to discourage any further conversation, she may say no thanks. Or she may take advantage of the guy, holding out the promise of a later reward while he pays for her drinks all night.
Cost: Moderate to High
Risk: Moderate to High
Payoff: Low to Moderate
4. Sometimes a man will start buying a girl drinks with the express purpose of getting her drunk. His strategy is to deliberately obscure her good judgment in hopes that she will act impulsively and have sex with him. Of course, he may overshoot and find that he is holding her hair back while she pukes on the sidewalk at closing time.
Cost: High
Risk: High
Payoff: Low to High
5. Finally, there is the option of a man approaching a woman and introducing himself without offering to pay for a drink. Once the guy feels secure in her attraction, he may offer to refill her drink, or get her one when he gets another for himself.
Cost: Low
Risk: Low to Moderate
Payoff: Low to High
Conclusion
The best overall strategy a man can follow is to approach a woman he finds attractive and introduce himself. He will have to display the necessary social skills to get her attention, but if she does indicate interest, he will know clearly that she has no ulterior motive and does not feel any sense of obligation due to his expenditure of resources. Once a rapport has been established, he may feel inclined to generously offer to buy her a drink, prolonging the interaction and signaling that he is willing to invest resources in getting to know her better. This is his call and is not required, though it may be effective in flattering his target.
One exception: When a woman finds a man attractive, and wants to make him aware of her presence, sending a drink over to him is a feisty and daring move. It is so unexpected, it is guaranteed to flatter the recipient, which is never a bad start. It’s a high-risk, low-cost move, otherwise known as What the Hell.
The Ethics of Buying and Accepting Drinks
There is no single source or consensus on what is appropriate behavior in this area. So I’ve created one.
Susan Walsh’s Rules of Ethics for Buying and Accepting Drinks
Guys
1. Any drink sent to a woman without her advance knowledge is 100% unconditionally offered. As a man, you have no rights whatsoever in this scenario, nor should you have any expectations. A woman who accepts the drink and then refuses to even look your way may be rude, but she is not technically taking advantage of you. She did not invite you to approach her. She may even refuse the drink, which again, is reasonable.
2. Drinks sent to a group of women are unlikely to be refused – it is too difficult to ascertain the intent of the gesture and reach consensus on the spot. Again, this does not obligate the women to invite you over at all, much less spend the rest of the evening in your company.
3. If you approach a woman and offer to buy her a drink, and she accepts, you have the right to expect that at a minimum she will engage you in conversation. She should thank you and be receptive to whatever game you’re ready to spit at her. It’s your one shot, and if you blow it, don’t blame her. Essentially, her agreeing to accept a drink bought you an audition. That doesn’t mean you’re right for the part, and it doesn’t entitle you to anything.
4. Make your honorable intentions clear. A woman will feel nervous wondering what you want from her. Reassure her that you are interested in talking, period.
5. You are in no way obligated to offer to buy a woman anything. Indeed, as I’ve stated above, your best strategy is to hold off until you’ve got a sense that the attraction is mutual. Any woman who gives you grief for not plying her with drinks is a slush and should be considered unworthy of your attention.
6. If you are hitting it off with a girl, and offer to buy her a drink, and she accepts, you may feel encouraged, but you should not feel entitled to any specific reward. In fact, no amount of drinks entitles you to sex. If you want to get sex after dropping a couple of hundred dollars, there are more direct ways to achieve that.
7. If several guys are buying the same girl drinks, you are all being taken for a ride. A woman who is interested in one person will direct her focus and refuse the attention of other men.
8. NEVER buy a woman drinks with the express intent of getting her drunk. It’s beyond shady, and it proves that you can’t get laid by a woman in control of her faculties.
9. NEVER call a woman out angrily, calling her names, etc. If you believe you’ve been taken advantage of, walk away, and try a different strategy next time.
Girls
1. Accepting a drink from a man NEVER obligates you to:
- Give him your phone number
- Focus on him for the rest of the evening
- Make out or have sex with him
- Leave with him
It does obligate you to treat him with appreciation and respect.
2. If the drink has been sent over, you should seek eye contact, and thank him. When he approaches, you should be friendly regardless of your level of attraction to him. If you are not attracted to him, refrain from flirting or sending other encouraging signals.
3. Women often try to let guys down easy by telling them they’ve got a boyfriend. This is a good way to allow a man to save face. However, once you do that, you may not encourage another guy in front of him. Therefore, it’s best to say a simple “No, thank you” after a brief, friendly interaction. That way, you have done nothing misleading and can enjoy the rest of your evening without feeling awkward and guilty.
4. Never lead a guy on by allowing him to bankroll your tab for the evening. It’s selfish, rude and trashy. It gives all women a bad name.
5. Never accept a drink from a man when you are already engaged in talking to another man who is clearly interested. I’ve heard of women on dates accepting drinks from other men. Totally unacceptable!
6. Never accept a drink when you don’t want one. If you are interested, you can make that clear in ways other than accepting a drink you have no wish to consume. Don’t allow a well-intentioned guy to waste his hard-earned money.
7. Never accept a drink and pass it to a friend. I have heard of women who are driving accept the drink and give it away, a sort of present to a friend. This abuses the guy by diverting resources he wishes to spend on you to a woman he has shown no interest in.
8. Never penalize a man for not offering to buy you a drink right away. If on the other hand, a man goes to refill his own drink without offering to get you one, you may consider him cheap and stingy.
9. If you are interested in getting to know a guy who buys you a drink, it is appropriate and fair for you to offer to get the next round. This has the added benefit of letting him know clearly that you have no intention of taking advantage of him.
Signaling your attraction to someone by buying them a drink is an old-school, classy move. It remains one of the best ice-breakers for meeting new people in a public setting. As a device, it can be used effectively by both sexes. If both men and women adhere to the principles of decency and generosity, there’s no reason for anyone to feel demeaned or abused by the practice.
So get out there and take your shot. When you see someone out who you find really hot, don’t go home wondering “What if?” Introduce yourself, make eye contact, turn on the charm. And if a bit of alcohol lubricates the interaction, that’s OK, no matter who’s paying.
{ 26 comments… read them below or add one }
I'm a little surprised you didn't clue your readers in on the PUA strategy regarding drinks. Here's a hint: If you're flirting with a guy, and he teases you about how you ought to buy HIM a drink… you're dealing with a pick up artist.
Most PUA “instructors” tell their students never to buy anything for a girl until AFTER she's had sex with you. I suppose there's nothing inherently wrong with this strategy, but it does seem to be particular to this group of guys. Just an FYI.
One thing worth mentioning is NEVER EVER accept a drink brought to you by anyone but the staff. A guy may have slipped you a roofie as he walked back from the bar with your drink. Do not let your drink out of your sight, even to go to the bathroom.
Yes, all very quaintly amusing. Let's take this from the top shall we?
“1. Any drink sent to a woman without her advance knowledge is 100% unconditionally offered.”
Perhaps violating every known law of human nature too. It could happen!
“Drinks sent to a group of women are unlikely to be refused…”
For obvious reasons, and yet this may be more uncommon given the expense.
“3. If you approach a woman and offer to buy her a drink, and she accepts, you have the right to expect that at a minimum she will engage you in conversation. She should thank you and be receptive to whatever game you’re ready to spit at her.”
Indeed a rationally minimal expectation that is somehow only occasionally met in any realistic or meaningful way.
“4. Never lead a guy on by allowing him to bankroll your tab for the evening. It’s selfish, rude and trashy. It gives all women a bad name”.
If this is Not happening several times a night at your local do check the venue, you could be in Saudi Arabia. Or in jail of some sort.
“5. You are in no way obligated to offer to buy a woman anything. Indeed, as I’ve stated above, your best strategy is to hold off until you’ve got a sense that the attraction is mutual. Any woman who gives you grief for not plying her with drinks is a slush and should be considered unworthy of your attention.”
Hence you'll either never know, or always come up wanting. SSDD. And why even go out to the bars then?
“6. If you are hitting it off with a girl, and offer to buy her a drink, and she accepts, you may feel encouraged, but you should not feel entitled to any specific reward. In fact, no amount of drinks entitles you to sex. If you want to get sex after dropping a couple of hundred dollars, there are more direct ways to achieve that.”
Yes, and with logic like that they might as well shutter all the bars then too, right? And where might you spend a 'couple of 100 dollars' on drinks, but in some sort of sleazy strip club? and if you can't buy some decent attention via that route? You might want to die happy some other way.
“7. If several guys are buying the same girl drinks, you are all being taken for a ride. A woman who is interested in one person will direct her focus and refuse the attention of other men.”
Umm no, not necessarily. She may just enjoyably slobber them all up and pass along the 'overflow' to her gals, and giggle all the way home. Once again. Like they do every other Sat night at a round robin of local clubs they use the same 'golden gal' ploy on.
“8. NEVER buy a woman drinks with the express intent of getting her drunk. It’s beyond shady, and it proves that you can’t get laid by a woman in control of her faculties.”
Again somehow this never seems to happen. Well nowhere I've been able to discern. It's in fact one of the most time honored basics in the Western tool kit of seduction. See: Wine & Greeks for 300 Alex!
Going on:
“1. Accepting a drink from a man NEVER obligates you to:
Give him your phone number
Focus on him for the rest of the evening
Make out or have sex with him
Leave with him
It does obligate you to treat him with appreciation and respect”.
Display a modicum of 'appreciation & respect' for more than say the de rigueur nano second (if that)? Forget about it!
“2. If the drink has been sent over, you should seek eye contact, and thank him. When he approaches, you should be friendly regardless of your level of attraction to him. If you are not attracted to him, refrain from flirting or sending other encouraging signals”.
Ah, but flirting and playing with the hapless & luckless 'losers' who'll willingly ply you & your lovely gal pals with drinks Is the reason going out to the bars is so much Fun!
“3. Women often try to let guys down easy by telling them they’ve got a boyfriend. This is a good way to allow a man to save face. However, once you do that, you may not encourage another guy in front of him. Therefore, it’s best to say a simple “No, thank you” after a brief, friendly interaction. That way, you have done nothing misleading and can enjoy the rest of your evening without feeling awkward and guilty”.
Again some simple logic may be lost on many of the lushes. This will go on several times a night on a decent 'girls night out'. 'My husband's overseas in the service' is still one of the favs in some precincts.
“4. Never lead a guy on by allowing him to bankroll your tab for the evening. It’s selfish, rude and trashy. It gives all women a bad name”.
Yep. But if it's not being done openly & laughingly at a table near a you? You just might not be in the US anymore! Check for your Blackwater handlers and see if you're being 'transitioned' to one of those secret holding cells somewhere around the world.
“5. Never accept a drink from a man when you are already engaged in talking to another man who is clearly interested. I’ve heard of women on dates accepting drinks from other men. Totally unacceptable!”
[Done & Done. See No's 2& 4 above here].
“6. Never accept a drink when you don’t want one. If you are interested, you can make that clear in ways other than accepting a drink you have no wish to consume. Don’t allow a well-intentioned guy to waste his hard-earned money”.
[Ditto. See No's 2& 4 above here.]
“7. Never accept a drink and pass it to a friend. I have heard of women who are driving accept the drink and give it away, a sort of present to a friend. This abuses the guy by diverting resources he wishes to spend on you to a woman he has shown no interest in”.
Sorry, but a standard part of the whole 'amusement package' here'. [Ditto. See No's 2& 4 above here.]
“8. Never penalize a man for not offering to buy you a drink right away. If on the other hand, a man goes to refill his own drink without offering to get you one, you may consider him cheap and stingy”.
Ergo, if he shows up and somehow Does Not pay for your drinks? He's regarded automatically as 'cheap & stingy'. Just for showing up. And not really knowing you. Yet.
Again, SSDD. Happy New Years Suckers! Cheers, 'VJ'
Here is what I do when accepting drinks from men.
When a drink is sent over and I ask who it was from. When the waitress points him out if I am NOT interest I simply raise the glass in acknowledgement and then set it in the table, and don't touch it again. I have one girlfriend who thinks this is rude. I don't believe so. I didn't ask for the drink, and I politely acknowledged that it was sent over. Nowhere is it written that I actually have to drink it.
Now, if the drink is sent over by someone it looks like I might be interested in. I raise the glass in acknowledgement add a smile and take a drink. This clearly shows my graitude, and the flirty smile lets them know they are free to come over if they wish. Or, in cases where I am feeling a bit more bold, I will go over and thank him personally.
It may not work for everyone, but in the past few months this technique has worked for me.
Thanks, Hamby, that's a very good point. I didn't focus on PUAs because I am aware that they don't buy women drinks. In fact, they are some of the loudest voices online objecting to the practice. They consider it Chump behavior. And they do have a point, in that many women take advantage of men in this way, and then disrespect them.
I should write a post, soon, though, about how to spot a PUA. There are definitely telltale giveaways, and women are better off if they know who they're dealing with.
Hey, Kristie, another excellent point! Yikes, I didn't even think of that. I've heard horror stories about roofies being slipped into drinks at frat parties and big house parties, but not in bars. No reason it can't happen though, and I'm sure it does.
BTW, I spoke with one woman who had that experience, and she said she literally felt physically paralyzed. She was unable to make any decisions or move away from the guy. Very scary stuff.
That is VERY cynical, VJ. Not all women, even those in bars and clubs, are out to ridicule guys and get drunk at their expense. Many young women go out with their friends to bars in hopes of meeting a nice, cute guy. It's not the best strategy, but it definitely deserves a spot in the rotation.
Anyway, I just wanted to go on record as stating what I think ethical behavior is on this issue. In particular, I want to encourage guys to NOT buy drinks too soon, or with unrealistic expectations. Both women and men should be earnest and honest in their dealings with each other. Seduction need not be based on deception, Game notwithstanding.
Rebekah, I like that! That's a great strategy! Even if the guy isn't aware that you don't sip from the drink, you know it. You can feel that you've behaved with integrity. Great approach.
I also love the visual of you taking a sip while maintaining eye contact. That must bring them over every single time! Pssssssttt!
Another great article Susan and another one we will definitely point our users too. We have a couple PUA's on our site and some have mentioned the idea of not buying a girl a drink. Other men that have been successful picking up women believe it's just part of the territory and don't consider buying the drink to be good or bad in the process.
No one's ever sent me over a drink! Although to be honest, I don't go to bars that often and if I do I am usually dancing like the fiend I am. But still!
I have to say, as a non drinker, this issue has been fairly easy for me to deal with. I say “no thanks, I don't drink” and if I am interested in the guy I'll ask him what he is drinking. and if I am not interested I then turn around and start dancing with my friends again.
Being non-drinker in social settings creates a whole new set of problems though. I often have felt like guys just ignore me because they think I won't be fun if I am not drunk. ouch!
D, haha, I can just see you tearing up the dance floor! I think you're right about drinkers not trusting non-drinkers. It's silly – why should alcohol be a requirement? I daresay you are full of life without any. But I too have found that people who are drinking do not want to drink alone — they'll literally let a lack of drunkenness end an evening. My grad school roommate wouldn't drink at all, and she was always the craziest girl at the party. Me? A total lush. But I don't think you should have to be!
I believe VJ's point is that alcohol and higher brain functions typically don't mix and therefore expecting people to be ethical at bars is largely an exercise in futility, especially since alcohol seems to interfere with people's ability to reason (or at the very least giving people the excuse to act on their primal instincts).
Of course this is all contextual because it depends on the type of establishment you're going to and the culture there. I've been to some places that are basically free-for-all hookup playgrounds and others that are more like social-mixers. Being social-mixers, people have to be drunk enough to take to the floor but sober enough to avoid nausea/lack of balance. By extension the women tend to listen to their crotch less (naturally us men persist with our crotch-thoughts).
On a different note, have you seen this bit of news?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/8439000.stm
The Journal of Sexual Medicine conducted a study on 1800 women and concluded that the G-Spot is a myth. All 1800 women were twins, both identical and non-identical. The assumption was that if one identical twin felt that she had a g-spot, the second identical twin must have one as well. This did not turn out to be true though and identical twins were no more likely to share a G-Spot then the non-identical twins, thus implicating that the G-Spot is not a physical/genetic feature.
I actually got a roofie by mistake once. That is, someone intended the drink for a girl, and I ended up spending six hours in a bush somewhere on the local university campus. Definitely keep an eye on your drink.
Hahaha, Hamby, I'm sorry but this cracked me up. It's like something from a Judd Apatow movie. I'm sure the perp wondered why his roofie didn't have the desired effect on this target.
Hey wookie, good to see you, happy new year! I agree with your point about context and culture. There is no question that alcohol consumption leads to more impulsive sexual decisions. In fact, studies have shown that a large number of women deliberately drink to excess in order to lose inhibition and successfully hook up.
However, if you go into a bar here in Boston on a weekend night, you will see some people acting pretty drunk, but many are drinking within reasonable limits. They're using alcohol as a social lubricant, but hopefully, once they're into their mid-20s, they're not looking to get blackout drunk. Of course, college and frat parties are a completely different story, but generally the booze there is free, so it doesn't pertain to this post so much.
That's a very interesting article on the G-spot. I confess I have searched for it, and have indeed found the area, which is described with specific physical characteristics (different texture, mostly). However, I did not find that it contained any particular sensitivity. I don't care, frankly, I assume everyone is different in the way they get off. Any woman who feels guilty for not having a G-spot is being ridiculous! If she's got a clitoris, she's got the necessary equipment.
I've been absent from your blog for so long!!! I thought you had quit posting simply because my reader is malfunctioning and won't update past the swine flu. I have to figure it out because my blogroll isn't updating either!
Anyways, great post! I like it when someone goes out on a limb and proclaims their interest. I like directness. Buying a drink is pretty direct. And it is kind and generous. And it can end there too. Simple. Clean Easy.
Singlutionary, I am so happy to see you! I hope all is well with you – last time I checked you weren't blogging as much – that was around the time Abstinent Admirer got weird, and the Teapot was on the scene! Haha, this must sound crazy. I'll swing by and get caught up! Thanks for checking in.
As for directness, I'm with you 100%. In fact, if anything I'm too direct. It's gotten me into a heap of trouble, but I can't change my stripes. For me, the worst nightmare is a New England WASP who is reserved, with all sorts of subtext percolating beneath the surface. Torture!
Buying women drinks is a sexual contract. Unfortunately for men it is a very weak contract that we usually can't enforce, but it is a sexual contract nonetheless. Thinking the drink is “unconditionally offered” is pure delusion. There is, however, a way the woman can void the sexual contract after accepting a drink: Buy the man a drink back. That would be an ethical way to tell him to buzz off after buying her a drink.
Of course, PUAs don't buy drinks but instead use deceptive tactics designed to lower the cost of sex to less than the price of drinks — to zero, even. Buying drinks is actually a very straightforward and honest attempt to get sex by offering value. A PUA on the other hand will pretend his value is so high that he doesn't need to get her anything besides sex in return for sex. Since sex is a female resource and so just sex for sex is an unequal exchange that is always a bad deal for the woman, it is truly astonishing that PUA tactics work. It means women are far more gullible than previously thought.
Hi Elvind, welcome, and thanks for commenting. How can a woman enter a contract if she has not been consulted? I agree that when a woman accepts a drink that has been offered, she has entered into a contract. In my view, her obligation is to give the guy a shot–as I say in the post, he's earned the right to audition, essentially. However, a drink that's been sent over to her without her participation? She owes him nothing. To take the point to an extreme, imagine Megan Fox enters a bar. 36 guys send her a drink. What is her obligation to those men?
Buying drinks may be an attempt to get sex, by offering value, but if a guy expects sex after spending $6, he's valuing his target at a very low level. Buying drinks makes sense as a conversation starter, a way to break the ice. If a guy expects more than that, he's likely to be disappointed. The value a woman wants to see demonstrated is in the male himself – does he display the traits that make him a potential mate?
Yes, PUA tactics do work. They have been developed with a pretty clear sense of female psychology. They don't rely so much on a woman being gullible, they target her self-esteem and her need for validation from men. All women will be susceptible to this to some degree – that's why it is important for women to recognize these tactics and guard against them.
I meant after accepting a drink. If the drink is just put in front of her without her participation, then that doesn't obligate the woman to anything. Certainly if she doesn't even drink it there is no contract.
Of course sex is worth far more than the price of a drink, and I agree it really just buys you an audition with any particular woman. The expectation is that if you buy drinks to enough women, then sooner or later some of them will sleep with you. The cost per notch that way can be very high indeed, and when it finally succeeds you don't really think you just spent $6 but the thousands of dollars since last time you got laid. I am trying to become a PUA now, but that is the way it went. The only way this can look cheap and easy is if you observe the time it works and ignore the hundreds of failures in between. Yes, it is a lot like gambling.
That's why I suggest that men don't buy women drinks to introduce themselves. A man can easily demonstrate value by approaching a woman with confidence and something interesting to say. I believe that most women would prefer that to being offered another drink. Meeting someone with real romantic potential beats getting drunk on someone else's dime every time.
I think it's more precise to say the *first* drink a man offers to a woman is a statement of intent to enter into contract negotiations. It's sort of like the millions of dollars the Red Sox paid to even be able to talk to Daisuke Matsuzaka about a contract.
Once a woman has accepted the drink and engaged in conversation, she's listening to the proposal.
I'll be honest… I don't buy drinks for complete strangers. Whether it's a PUA strategy or not, I think it diminishes my value somewhat if I'm willing to drop five bucks on some random woman. It kind of reeks of desperation. While I don't adhere to the whole PUA strategy of never buying drinks before sex, I would say that I generally buy drinks as a way to cement something that's already well into “negotiation phase.” And typically… I buy them as part of a “good faith trade.” In other words, I get something I want, whether it's some alone time, a game of pool, or something. “I'll tell you what… I think I want another drink… Do you want another drink? I'll get the next round, and let's you and I go sit over here and chat while we drink.”
This kind of approach does a couple of things:
1) I'm not really “buying her a drink” in the cheese-ball sense. We've got something going on already, and I'm “buying the next round.” (I want a drink, so it's as much about me as her.) If things go well, I didn't look like a cheapskate. If things are not progressing after this drink, I can let her know by saying something about “her turn to buy” if the topic of drinks comes up again. (In other words… I'm proving that I'm not going to just keep buying drinks if there's no escalation of negotiations.) As a secondary note, if I mention her turn to buy, and she buys… how nice for me. I get a drink. If she gets upset, then I know she was just milking me for drinks, and isn't interested, or is just cheap, or whatever. I'm also demonstrating that I'm into reciprocity. That when I give, I expect to get. Maybe it's a little cocky, but trust me… anyone, man or woman, who doesn't expect reciprocity is going to have a hard time in relationships. (Remember, I can opt to buy the next drink if it feels right, but I've given myself an out as well.)
2) I don't waste time on girls who haven't expressed any interest in me whatsoever. I'm hedging my bets and saving some money that would probably just be wasted.
3) Again, since there's something already going on, buying a drink during “negotiations” is a much more sincere compliment. Instead of saying, “Hey, random chick. You're hot. Drink this,” I'm saying, “I think this is going very well, and I think it's worth my while to invest something into these negotiations.” I think this approach is much more likely to illicit feelings of reciprocation in women. At least it seems to have been true in my case. (It's always hard to isolate variables when we're drinking!)
4) Refer back to your sales manuals, page 57. The way I phrase it, I'm basically telling the girl to leave her friends and come hang out with me, but I'm phrasing it in a way that makes it much less creepy. “I want another drink. Do you want another?” When she says yes, she's committed. At this point, when I say, “I'll get the next round, and let's go do X, Y, Z over here while we drink,” I'm eliciting an immediate sense of reciprocity in the girl. It would be impolite for her not to come with me after we've already invested time together, and I'm buying her a drink. Any girl who says no to this is just SCREAMING that she wants me to get the hell away.
Seriously, I should charge for this shit. I'm giving away all the nice guy alpha secrets.
Haha, yes you should charge for your advice! I like your approach–it's fair, but most of all it makes strategic sense. No one is giving anything away for free too soon. I like it that you are willing to take the initiative for the first round – that's why I say in the post that if a guy gets himself a drink without offering you one, intending to come back to chat, you may consider him cheap and stingy.
By the way, often times when a girl does offer to pay or get the next round, guys will refuse. They insist on paying. There is something here re evo psychology, I think–if things are going well, the man enjoys the sense of being the provider in this small way. If a woman offers, and a guy won't let her pay, it's all good b/c everyone is getting something that makes them happy, IMO.
“If a woman offers, and a guy won't let her pay, it's all good b/c everyone is getting something that makes them happy, IMO.”
Yeah. That definitely taps into the guy wanting to be the provider and the girl wanting to see that he's a willing and able provider. I've found that this can be tricky territory for a guy, though. For 20-25 year old women, sure. Go ahead and insist on buying when she offers. Half the women this age still call their Dad for help with the credit card bills. A father figure provider taps into something they still value highly.
Once women get a little older and go through their first divorce from that guy who promised the moon and then drank all the take-home pay, they get a little more jaded. It can be insulting to some women to insist on paying. They think, “Dammit! I'm a grown damn woman, and I can take care of myself!”
Personally, I don't find that very attractive. Battle scars are not sexy on women. (Sad, but true.) However, there are also women out there who are professionals, and want to politely assert their willingness to be reciprocal… they want a 50/50 kind of arrangement, and want you to know it off the bat. If you find one of these women, let her pay, and then say a prayer of thanks to whatever deity makes the most sense to you.
Haha, I love that! Looking back on my early days with my husband, I did what felt natural at the time, and we really didn't worry about money. He was paying his own way thru grad school, and was basically broke most of the time. He would fix me pasta dinners, buy me used books, and stuff like that, but he just didn't have much money. I, on the other hand, had my parents helping out, and had a nice little monthly allowance that made life pretty easy. I did not hesitate to pay for stuff for the two of us. It wasn't constant – I didn't make him a gigolo, haha, but I did do that. One weekend we went away and I paid for the B&B, for example. It seemed fair. Once we graduated and moved in together, we combined our checking accounts right away, even though we wouldn't get married for another couple of years. I recall that my boss at the time was horrified to learn this, but I never worried about it. And to this day we have never (well, hardly ever) argued about money and who's earning what (lucky for me).
I like these guidelines.
(The roofie part scares me though.)
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