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Sex is Chemistry, and It’s Never Casual

Hooking Up Smart has a fairy godmother, she just doesn’t know it yet. I cite her frequently, because she is doing the most interesting work around on relationship science. She is Dr. Helen Fisher, a professor of anthropology at Rutgers University. Recently she joined Chemistry.com (a subsidiary of Match.com), where she is the chief scientific advisor.

One of the reasons I really like her work is because she produces findings using the scientific method. No women and men yelling accusations at each other, saying “You just don’t understand!” No anecdotal evidence that can be twisted and turned every which way. We may not always like what she learns, but there is comfort in facts. Once we know what it is we’re really facing, we can begin to map out strategies to deal with it. Action always feels better than inaction. Movement feels better than inertia.

Dr. Fisher’s recent work actually highlights some good news, for both men and women. Check out her recent TV appearance on Fox:



Here’s the detailed information from her web chat:

Q: Seems like casual sex varies a lot for men and women. As a recent college grad, seems like I saw a lot of young men using it as a tool for empowerment and in turn, young women feeling used. Despite outward appearances, do you think engaging in casual sex is ultimately negative for men, too?

  • Casual sex can be very disappointing for men, as well as for women.
  • The data show that men get less depressed about a failed hook up than women do, perhaps for a Darwinian reason:
    • A man who has failed to trigger romantic love during a hook up with a would-be partner has still had the potential opportunity to spread his DNA.
    • A woman has endangered her reproductive future by possibly getting pregnant during a brief encounter.
  • Men are just as romantic as women are. In fact, men are far more likely to kill themselves when a relationship fails, and they tend to be more dependent on their partnerships than women are, because they have fewer intimate male friendships.

Q: How do you think modern “hook-up culture” affects relationships?

  • Having sex escalates dopamine in the brain and can trigger feelings of romantic love.
  • With orgasm, the release of oxytocin and vasopressin can trigger feelings of attachment.
  • Casual sex is never casual: unless you are to drunk to remember it, something happens–a person is either turned on or off.
  • In one recent study, some 50% of those who hooked up, did it to start a relationship–and 1/3 succeeded. So I think a lot of men and women initiate or engage in a hook up to start a partnership.
  • But it can be damaging. Many fail to achieve what they set out to do, and then feel used.

Q: Is there any hope for an on-again, off-again romantic relationship that’s been going on for five years without either person willing to make a commitment as in proposing marriage?

  • Sometimes, one partner finally gives up and leaves and the other suddenly realizes what they have lost and decides to make the commitment.
  • Or some sort of other event occurs that makes both partners come to their senses, such as a death in the family, an illness, or a long time apart. But I don’t advise trying to make something work forever. I would recommend you set a deadline for yourself, and if he/she can’t commit, you find love with someone who will.
    • Life is short, it’s not a dress rehearsal, and there are other fish in the sea.
    • People who won’t commit generally have a reason.

Q: I care for my girlfriend very deeply — indeed I love her. But I don’t feel a hugely strong passion or raw attraction for her. Is that an impediment in the long run? Can we still build a long-term bond?

  • The intense passion of romantic love actually dampens several areas of the brain and can make you blind to the problems in a partnership.
  • If you have a calmer, more stable feeling for her, you can see more clearly what she will be like years down the road.
  • If you love her now, you are likely to keep on loving her.

Q: Is it possible to be in love and in lust with someone at the same time?

  • These two brain systems are very well connected. Lust is driven by testosterone and romantic love is driven largely by dopamine.
  • And testosterone and dopamine trigger one another.
  • This is why you feel so sexually attracted to someone as soon as you fall in love with them.
  • Or you may feel sexually attracted to someone, and the testosterone trips the dopamine switch, causing you to fall in love with them.


Why am I so encouraged?

1. Fifty-two percent of guys hook up in hopes of starting a relationship. I like those odds.

2. Dr. Fisher says casual sex is never casual (unless you’re blackout). So having sex with someone will make them like you either more or less. Your odds are 50/50, which is better than I would have guessed!

3. If you can get someone’s sex drive going, you can trigger the dopamine switch.


I’m hopeful that one day Dr. Fisher will invent and market a Dopamine Switch. It’s probably not far off!

In the meantime:

  • Go for the hookup with someone you think has relationship potential (just be smart about it, as always).

  • Don’t hook up with someone you really like while you’re both blackout drunk. It can’t possibly mean anything, and it just creates awkwardness, which kills any relationship buzz.

  • Be hot in bed. Make it memorable. This sounds difficult, but it’s not. You don’t need to read Cosmo. The ingredients are enthusiasm, boldness, and focus. (You can learn all the skill you need in one long weekend bed session with someone you really dig.)

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  • http://kallaydoscope.com/ Kallay

    You're right! This is very encouraging for those of us that are still looking and wondering if the next guy is going to be “the one”. I haven't dated anyone in about 3 months since breaking up with my boyfriend. We were very much the same type of person. We thought alike and never fought. We had amazing chemistry, but he didn't want to think about the future. After over a year of friendship and 6 months of dating, one would think this would have come up sooner. I guess you just never know unless you ask the hard questions. I never thought to ask them because since we had everything else in common I just assumed (danger!danger!) that we were on the same wavelength. Clearly not! He still writes me occasionally and wants to talk like old times, and it's frustrating. Why would he want to keep pursuing a friendship when it was so easy for him to throw away the deep love that we had for each other?

    This is where the hormonal relationship confuses me. He doesn't want to be in love and looking toward a future with me, but he doesn't want to let me off the hook either. How does *that* come into play with chemistry? I don't have a desire to be with him after what happened. I felt really betrayed and a lot like he led me on. So I let it go. Just like that, I was over it. (Thanks in large part to some of your excellent advice.) I feel like I'm getting too old to play these games. So how do you distance yourself if chemistry is such a large part of all of this? How can you be so in tune with someone and then it all just suddenly ends, VERY abruptly? He wasn't cheating, he's still not dating anyone, he just didn't want to think about the future and was dead set against marriage. Just all of a sudden, he didn't want to think about our relationship in those terms. Obviously I haven't seen him since the break up, so there's not a friends with benefits situation going on, he contacts me, not the other way around. So what do I do with that information? Do I just keep ignoring him? He's acting like we can just go back to being friends and I can't.

    Is this sudden urge for a connection with me a chemical thing? Are his friendly gestures a hormonal need to be in touch with someone that he was really connected with? I don't get this. I wish it was as easy as “Please, just leave me alone.” But we've been down that road and he didn't respect those boundaries so now he's trying this friendly IMing crap.

    Any advice? Where do hormones come in when it's a long distance separation?

  • synthesis

    LOL, I like the part where Dr. Fisher pretty much says love is a chemical reaction. It reminds me of a Calvin and Hobbes script where Calvin yells for his mom in the middle of the night and asks if love is just a chemical reaction that ensures the passage of our genes. She replies with, “Whatever it is, it's what's keeping me from strangling you right now.”

    About getting guys to commit, people need to stop marrying for love and start marrying because they want kids. Love fades. Marrying for love is a modern luxury. It wasn't too long ago that people were shamed into marriage because they were horny but were taught to not have premarital sex. Think guys have a problem with video games, porn, and not growing up? It's because they aren't getting married and supporting a few kids.

    Susan, they already have drugs that affect dopamine in the brain. Cocaine and amphetamine block the reuptake of dopamine which makes more available for the synapses. Antipsychotics block dopamine from activating receptors and can cause anhedonia–inability to feel pleasure.

  • susanawalsh

    Kallay, wow, you have posed some really good (and difficult) questions here. I wish I could get Dr. Fisher on the line! I may be in over my head here, but I'll take a shot.

    1. Asking the hard questions is, well, really hard. It sucks for women, who are almost always the ones asking. Of course, asking can save a lot of time and heartache, but women worry that if they ask too soon they'll derail things just when they're going well. However, I never cease to be amazed at how differently a man and a woman in a relationship can view their situation. Talking about it is essential, there is just no shortcut. You gotta pick your moment and go for it.

    2. I hear a lot from women that men who they've broken up with want to keep in touch. They IM, text, etc. This almost always happens when the man ended the relationship, so it hard to understand. It gives women hope that the guy isn't totally over them, but I think it speaks more to the man's need to be validated. He enjoyed being loved by you, and he misses that feeling. He wants to take it, but not give it back. It's very selfish to keep someone on the line when you know you can't give them what they want. He should feel sorry that he hurt you and do whatever you think is best to enable you to move on.

    3. Re chemistry, I'm not sure exactly how that works. If dopamine causes us to fall in love, then falling out of love must be accompanied by a drop in dopamine. So the testosterone – sex drive hormone – could still be active with a person, but the dopamine switch has been triggered to off. And I'm not sure if it can be turned back on. I imagine it can, because Dr. Fisher talked about on-again, off-again relationships. Missing a person can trigger it. It's possible that your ex is feeling that way, but I would think he would let you know, not just go for friendly banter.

    4. I agree that you would be better off not being in touch with him for a while. If you cut off contact, and he misses you, he will have to revisit the question of commitment. Since he doesn't respect the boundaries you have set, I would work hard to avoid him. When he IM's you, sign off immediately. Or just don't respond, if you can stand it. Your only obligation right now is to yourself. If the break is permanent, then you're much better off if it's clean.

    5. Re long distance, that's a good question. I do know that Dr. Fisher says both dopamine and testosterone can surge through online contact alone, which would be similar to long-distance. So I'd think you could fall in love with someone long-distance, or stay that way, provided you find a way to satisfy your sex drive.

    Women are often too nice to exes. Don't stroke his ego, don't let him know how hard this is for you. Just cut him off. Then get back up on that horse and go meet some new guys.

  • susanawalsh

    Hey, synthesis, welcome back. Haha, I love Calvin! It's interesting that you say people should start marrying because they want kids. In a recent post, I wrote about a woman who became a single mother by choice, but now wishes she had “settled” for a good man instead of going it alone. It is true that marrying for love is a modern luxury, and there are still many places where it's still not the norm.

    Wait, are you saying that cocaine and amphetamines allow you to experience a more intense dopamine sensation? Does it feel like falling in love? Obviously, it would be temporary, but that's pretty interesting.

    Re other drugs, even the SSRI's can affect both testosterone and dopamine. Dr. Fisher urges anyone looking to fall in love to avoid anti-depressants if possible.

    It's a bit off topic, but I've also written about how the Pill changes the way women smell to men. Strippers on the Pill make about half the tips of strippers not on it. It evens out the hormonal cycle and masks evidence of ovulation. This is all very interesting stuff!

  • synthesis

    The chemistry is a bit more complicated than how you summarized in this post. If anything is a “love” chemical, it is oxytocin, but really all sorts of chemicals are implicated. Dopamine is also a lust chemical. It motivates you to find food when you're hungry and to find some tail when you're horny. After orgasm, prolactin is released which causes dopamine levels to drop along with the guy's hard-on. Antipsychotics do both these things to prolactin and dopamine, which is why they can cause impotence.

  • synthesis

    They say ritalin is like cocaine, but ritalin does not feel like falling in love. My experience with vicodin when I got my wisdom teeth pulled made me feel in love with the world, but not like I was in love with a girl. My experience with valium was kind of like falling in love in that it made me kinda stupid and happy-go-lucky. If I took all 3 and didn't die, then maybe I would like I was in love with a girl.

  • http://FT.com/ VJ

    Umm No. If you took all 3 drugs, you'd likely be in some trouble & distress. Besides, all the ones you mentioned are CNS depressants, and the 'natural/ endogenous ones' (besides Oxytocin) are not.

    I lurves me some Helen Fisher, but she's not really saying: 'Be hot in bed'. Make it memorable.

    For most people, especially when young? It'll always or usually be memorable, for one reason or another. For most of the rest of humanity? Showing up and happy to be there with you & able & willing to perform is typically a really good start. The sexual athleticism is usually for the professionals, posterity as recorded, or those who fortunately enough are still lithe, young & limber. Again, for the vast majority of humanity? It's simply a loving expression of your affection & mutual enjoyment. Nothing too difficult to pull off. And it can be done at 90 and by Galapagos turtles @ 150 & so slowly that you could wait & come back from lunch for the 'big finish'. So 'hot' probably is in the eye of the beholder. And again? Probably superfluous for what needs to be accomplished. Really.

    I'd also suspect that the stats are a bit skewed in the 'hopeful' direction here too. Take the 1/3 number as the harder more reliable one. That too is more hopeful than (~20%), but it's still one out of 3. (No don't get too technical here pal!) If you chose right, you can manage to find yourself in a relationship. That's still a ways off from an 'engagement' 'marriage' or even a successful LTR. But it's a start.

    But being hopeful is also knowing that after a few years? The sex can still be very good. But the 'hawt'? Is really few & far between for many good reasons. It's great when it happens. But even at younger ages & when perfectly wildly 'swinging' single, it's not going to be like that either all or most of the time. Nice, good, even respectable sex is of course still worth it. But the 'Hotness' really is pretty elusive for almost everyone. No matter what they're doing with whom or how or how well equipped, skilled or endowed the partner you're with. It's like any other human interaction, fraught with plenty of chaos, mystery, hidden fun & waiting disasters. You never can tell or predict it well. Cheers & Good Luck! 'VJ'

  • 3dshooter

    Hmmmm . . .

    From this blog entry: “It sucks for women, who are almost always the ones asking.”

    And from your previous blog entry: “Oh boy, do I hate statements like this. If you are going to generalize about what all or most women want, then provide the research or the stats.”

    Generalizations – pot – kettle – black.

    Seriously, do you gals ever stop and consider whether you have a consistent ideology, or opinions much less? Are the logical fallacies foreign where women's opinions are concerned?

  • synthesis

    “Umm No. If you took all 3 drugs, you'd likely be in some trouble & distress. Besides, all the ones you mentioned are CNS depressants, and the 'natural/ endogenous ones' (besides Oxytocin) are not.”

    Did you see where I wrote, “If I don't die…?” Ritalin and DAT inhibitors are stimulants. It could counteract the CNS depressants to a certain degree. Also, “endogenous ones” refers to what? Your ambiguous language sounds like, “natural / endogenous [CNS depressants] (besides Oxytocin) are not [CNS depressants].”

    Besides, I was imagining the recreation of a very SUBJECTIVE feeling of falling in love, not reproducing the exact psychopharmacological state in the brain during that period.

  • susanawalsh

    First of all, I'm happy to respond to your point, but don't care for your tone. I am only one “gal,” so if you want to criticize my debating skills, don't lump in my readers. Secondly, you are generalizing about women's opinions, committing the exact error you accuse me of.

    Dr. Fisher's finding that half the guys hooking up want relationships surprised and pleased me. I am not aware of any study that looks at who initiates THE RELATIONSHIP TALK more often.

    In my own experience, I'd say the ratio is about 10 women having to bring it up for every guy who wants to be exclusive. I assume this is because even if a guy is really into a girl, he is less biologically programmed toward monogamy. He prefers sexual variety. The female prefers a declared commitment with a man who theoretically will help her raise her young. Both men and women understand this. So when things are going along really well for a couple in the early days, the woman is more likely than the man to be anxious about where the relationship is headed. She risks far more than he does during sex, i.e. pregnancy. She also has a deadline on her fertility, so wasting time with men who won't commit reduces her chances of becoming a mother.

    However, they worry that asking about a guy's intentions too early will come off as needy or desperate. So they go along to get along, reading the signals as best they can, only to find out six months down the road:

    “I enjoy your company, but I enjoy hooking up with other women too.”
    “I'm not looking for anything serious right now.”
    “Whoa, I view us as Friends with Benefits!”
    “I'm young, I just want to have fun.”

  • susanawalsh

    No, Dr. Fisher is definitely not saying be hot in bed! That's me extrapolating from her research and here is my reasoning:

    1.Testosterone can trigger dopamine.
    2. Casual sex is never meaningless. When you have sex with someone, you either turn you on or off.
    3. It seems reasonable to assume that testosterone is more likely to trigger the dopamine switch if your partner turns you on, and less likely if they fail in the sack.
    4. Therefore, turn on your partner to increase your dopamine odds.

    Hookup sex is not always or even usually memorable for women, VJ. Guys have orgasms during hookups 44% of the time, compared with 19% for women. Hooking up can mean as little as kissing, or obviously the guys' number would be a lot higher. Still the point is that men often have a better time than women during hookup sex.

    I totally agree about the stats. Basically, one-sixth of men who hook up get into a relationship. Other research has stated the the number of hookups leading to relationships is only 12%, so I like the improved odds. However, I agree that it's too soon to book the reception hall. Still, good news perhaps for women aged 18-25 or so.

  • aldonza

    Guys only orgasm 44% of the time during hookups? Wow, that surprises me. Actually, the 19% figure for women surprises me too. Perhaps I've been blessed with sexually good hookups?

    It was nice to hear someone with some education in the field talking about how the species isn't doomed because of the culture today. Relationships still happen. Even long-term, monogamous ones. Yay!

    So which chemicals are more in play when you hookup and have crazy good chemistry? Is that a sign of high levels of both? Or just high testosterone?

  • hambydammit

    Most men are in a pretty constant state of testosterone induced sex drive. We don't particularly need the dopamine to have the testosterone. The dude's horny. That's all.

  • hambydammit

    Susan, one of my high horses is women's approach to sex in relationships. Frankly, it's probably a little unpopular, but I think I've heard you say some things that are similar to my views, so who knows.

    Anyway, with the obvious disclaimer that people have different kinds of sex drives, I think every young woman ought to be taught that relationships are contracts. Women want a lot out of men. Most women want a man who will only have sex with them, who will give them financial support, emotional support, and promise to stay with them even when their breasts sag and the c-section scars are hidden by wrinkles.

    Honestly, the least that women can do in return is give good head and put out most of the time when their guy is horny. After all, there's nothing genetically more limiting to a man than monogamy. We really do have a hard time with it.

    Way back in the day when I first read the Kama Sutra, I was impressed with the idea that older women teach young women how to be good lovers. I think that's awesome, and I wish we in America were comfortable doing the same thing. Instead, we have this silly morality of teaching women that if they're too good at what they do, they'll be thought of as sluts. HOW AWFUL!

    Yes. Absolutely. Women should work at being good lovers. Let's not kid ourselves about this. All things being equal, the woman who drives her man wild in bed all the time will keep him longer than the woman who treats sex as a chore and just lays there to let him do his thing.

    Also, the single woman who rocks a man's world in bed is MORE LIKELY to get into a relationship than the one who just lays there. Women who hook up and perform well are the ones guys go to for repeat performances. Repeat performances are what we call a “casual relationship.” Casual relationships sometimes lead to serious relationships. Duh.

    The logic of all this is obvious, but our silly morality of abstinence and inexperience before marriage messes with our ability to think about it.

    (Oh, and yes, I think men should also work at being great in bed, but you're writing to women, so I didn't stress it. But yeah, if a guy gives a girl an earth-shattering orgasm on a hookup, guess who's getting another booty call in a few days!)

  • susanawalsh

    Hi aldonza, thanks for commenting. Well, you've certainly been blessed. It could be any one (or more) of the following:

    1. You orgasm easily.
    2. Your partners have been considerate of your needs.
    3. Your partners know their way around the almighty clitoris.
    4. Your hookups have occurred in a state other than severe intoxication.

    Re the guys 44% number, as I say above, some of that is hookups that just don't go that far. Also, alcohol can limit a guy's ability to have an orgasm, or maintain an erection. Hooking up is highly correlated to alcohol use, so it's a definite factor.

    Based on Dr. Fisher's comments, I'd say when you hook up and have great chemistry, you're in testosterone territory. If you really like the person, you'll hope to trip that dopamine switch, which is the romantic love brain chemical. When both are high, I think you're crazy in love having awesome sex. YES!

  • susanawalsh

    Sadly, I agree based on the evidence presented here. His dopamine switch did not get tripped. It's good that Kallay is determined to move on. It's time to go fishing.

  • susanawalsh

    Hamby, some of what you say is perhaps a bit un-PC, but I agree with all of it. A woman has every right to say no to sex, at any time, or indeed all the time. However, she needs to understand there will be consequences if she chooses to do so. She will lose the attraction of her mate.

    You're right, I have written about this before. I recall saying that for women, part of a long-term monogamous relationship means having a lot more sex than you want to. I think I freaked out a couple of young women, who can't imagine ever wanting it less than constantly, haha. When they're covered with spitup, sleeping poorly, utterly exhausted they'll want to say, “Don't even think of coming near me tonight.” That's understandable, but I advise them to grab a shower and suck it up. Most of the time, they'll wind up enjoying themselves. Once the sex dies in a relationship, it's very, very hard to get it back. It may go on life support now and then, but women are wise to make it a priority to keep their husbands happy.

    It makes sense that men would be likely to want to see more of a woman who is great in bed. Women often find this very intimidating. One doesn't need to study the Kama Sutra to please a lover. It's about enjoying sex and figuring out what drives your partner crazy. For this reason, relationship sex is usually better than hookup sex.

    In my experience, what men find really sexy is women who love sex. I read a guy describing the best BJ he'd ever had, and when asked what set it apart, he thought about it and then said, “She was really into it. It was like she was worshipping my cock.” What man wouldn't prefer that kind of energy to a woman who's passive and rote in her approach? That's why I said the key ingredients are enthusiasm, boldness and focus. A woman who is inexperienced can learn very quickly if she is an eager pupil.

  • Decoybetty

    I have no real comment to make about this – as I've known for a long long time that casual sex wasn't for me.

    But Inspector Climate and I, when we're cuddling in bed before we fall asleep, always joke with other stuff like “this relationship would be great…if only we had a chemistry, you know?” Because the truth is, I find it very hard to keep my hands off him and that's not in a we're doing it all the time way, it's just things feel so much “right-er” when we're holding hands, or his arm is wrapped around me, or whatever.

    All I am saying is that if only we had chemistry together, I think the relationship could work, you know?

  • hambydammit

    Maybe I'm just beating a dead horse here, but I think this goes back to my post (inspired by your post) on casual relationships. I haven't really thought much about this specific context, but one of the things I've noticed with some girls I've dated (or friends have dated) is a feeling of protective entitlement. That is — an overinflated sense of “It's my hot body, and I'll do what I want!”

    Surely it must also be connected to the 50s, when women were effectively forced into domestic and sexual servitude. I don't imagine it feels particularly nice for a woman to think about having to have sex when she doesn't want it. It must feel awful to think about having to do that on a regular basis.

    HOWEVER…

    Sex is the most effective and valuable currency with which women can buy long term relationships. As you say, there are consequences to both giving freely and holding back constantly. It doesn't feel romantic to think about sex as currency, but it is, and the women who can get over the loss of magic fairy tale love generally have much more successful relationships.

    There are women out there who want sex all the time — as in three or four times a day, seven days a week. (Incidentally, I'm currently single, if any of your readers fit this description!) But they're about as rare as unicorns. In reality, most men don't want it that often for the long haul, but generally speaking, as relationships progress, the frequency of sex does decline. The important thing is that both partners respect the others' desires.

    Another aspect of this that women need to keep in mind: Sex is to men as cuddling, nurturing, complimenting, and supporting are to women. If you're a woman, think about the last time you were in a relationship with a guy who would only be physical with you during sex, and never reinforced his love for you with kisses, cuddling, affection, and non-sexual signs of attraction.

    Feels absolutely horrible, right?

    That's how we men feel when you don't give us sex.

  • susanawalsh

    D, I'm not sure I understand what you're saying here. Do you feel that your relationship with IC lacks chemistry? That would surprise me – I thought you really had the hots for him. Certainly, feeling compelled to touch him all the time clearly indicates your desire to be connected in every possible way. Or are you being funny D?

  • Decoybetty

    Whoops damn the internet and not being able to verify tone. I'm being funny.

    We're full of chemistry.

  • susanawalsh

    “Sex is the most effective and valuable currency with which women can buy long term relationships.”

    I began HUS with this premise. Since the dawn of time, women have been the gatekeepers to sex, exchanging it for commitment. Well, um, until recently.

    Three or four times a day, seven days a week? PLEASE! NO WAY! Haha, there isn't enough lube in the world to make that feel good. Early days, perhaps. Very early days. When we don't mind walking around sore – the soreness is a reminder of how crazy we are about a guy.

    OK, hamby, I have to say. Most of the young women I hear from are very interested in sex. How big a problem do you really think this is?

    One last thing: I have a question for you and any other guys who care to answer it. Dr. Fisher says that no sex is casual, that a sexual encounter either flips your switch on or off. How do you square this with the popular assumption that guys are easily able to separate emotions from sex? If a guy is just as vulnerable to getting his dopamine switched on, then why do so many guys seem happy without relationships? Why are they much happier than women in FWB arrangements? If a guy seeks sex repeatedly with the same woman, as opposed to going after new women, does that imply he has become attached to her in some way?

  • susanawalsh

    Haha, so glad to hear it! That's what I thought, but you are so right, online humor can be tough to grasp. Yeah, I was under the impression you two can't get enough of each other. Sooooo happy I was right.

  • AT

    An older woman, a relative, gave me what just might be the best marital advice I've ever received, right before I got married. Very un-PC, when you think about it, but it hit the nail on the head. She said, “You'd better be his slut in bed, rather than have him look for one outside of it.” That meant making sure he always looked forward to sex, and that he had lots of it.

    Thirteen years and counting now, and he's still as hot for me as he had always been. Having long time exclusive sex CAN be sexy, but it's stupid to think it'll just happen. You have to constantly work at it, which means, for the ladies, making sure you're always attractive to your partner (men ARE visual, there is just no going around that, no matter what you do), and for the men, listening to what your partner wants. Sure, there are days you just don't feel like it, but you try to keep that to a minimum. Sometimes I think it's the media's portrayal of “happily ever after” that's screwed things up, because most people don't realize that the real hard work comes AFTER you've said your vows.

  • susanawalsh

    Amen to everything you've said, AT. Very, very valuable advice to the young readers. At 53, I want to know that I have my husband's attention. It's not automatic, I have to make an effort. There are times, of course, when it's not gonna happen, and if he makes moves, it pisses me off, because he should know better. But I would be an idiot to play that card more than once in a blue moon.

  • Rebekah

    Hamby, I couldn't agree with you more. I recently heard a statistic that said most women were happy to have sex 1 or 2 times a week at the most and be happy, and men 4 to 6 times. These numbers didn't really surprise me. What did, was this young woman who called in and was disgusted that her boyfriend seemed to want sex all the time, and she was surprised when he left her. Well duh!! I don't understand the mentality of women seeing sex as a chore. It seems pretty basic to me. Give your man what he needs or someone else will.

    Which leads me to whole heartedly agree with what Hamby says about the least a woman can do is give good head and put out. Yea, it might be un-PC, but its the truth.

  • hambydammit

    Well, Dr. Fisher is certainly more qualified than me to answer that kind of question, but I would guess that she was generalizing for effect. I can't think of anything off the top of my head that's identical between males and females in sexual behaviors, so any kind of sweeping generalization is going to require a few asterisks.

    What comes to mind first is that the “dopamine switch” isn't really an on/off switch. Same for testosterone. There aren't preset dosages that are released with every sexual encounter we have. Instead, each encounter releases a coctail of lots of different chemicals.

    Also, dopamine is a drug, and there are some similarities to cocaine. That is, when we're getting a lot of it, the effect diminishes over time, but when we suddenly stop getting our hit, we go through withdrawal. Where someone is in this cycle would seem to be a big deal, too.

    Finally, I would think that for men, vasopressin would be more immediately important than dopamine, since it's been linked to monogamous behavior in mammals, and seems to induce feelings of bonding in males. In other words, to get a man to commit, you have to trip the vasopressin switch. For women, you have to trip the oxytocin switch. Dopamine is involved in the process in both cases, but we're talking about two chemical processes.

    And just for the record, of course I was being hyperbolic talking about the frequency of sex. Yes… some people do that at the beginning, but there are very few people who do it that often for long. But Rebekah is just about spot on, I think. In just about all the long term relationships I've been in, I've wanted sex several times a week more than my partner. And frankly, there are a lot of men who do want sex 10-12 times a week, so more than once a day. I've been a ten a week guy since I was 18, and being thirty-something hasn't slowed that down at all. (But a lot of that is because I'm a morning sex guy, and then fun date stuff happens at night…)

    One other thing I didn't think of that makes a big difference in long term relationships — men tend to view sex as stress relief a lot more than women. For me, if I've had a long, aggravating day at work, the best quickest cure is sex. Most of the women I've known want anything BUT sex after a hard stressful day. All the work that's needed to get a woman “in the mood” is just too much when she's already been working. Guys have been building up tension all day, so they're ready to release. Now.

    I know that's been the pattern with me. When both me and my girlfriend have been working hard, that's when the disagreements over sex start… because my sex drive goes up and hers goes down.

  • susanawalsh

    Thanks, those are some very interesting insights. I think you're right about what happens when the sexes get stressed – they do respond in opposite ways. One thing I know for sure is that an orgasm brings on sleep. That's a duh for guys, but it's true for women too. That release relaxes all the muscles and promotes sleep, especially during times of stress. Those are the times when quick sex works for everyone – if two people know each other's bodies very well, you can be in and out of there in under ten minutes, haha. It's healthy.

  • aldonza

    I don't think I'm an anomaly for how quickly I orgasm. I am selective about partners and will disregard anyone who shows signs of selfishness *before* bedding him. You are correct that I don't drink much as I've found that it inhibits my ability to orgasm too. I won't say that my number is 100%, but it's probably in the mid to high 80s. As for him? I can't remember one of them that didn't orgasm. Yes…I am that. damn. good. LOL!

    The problem I have is, seeing as most of my hookups have been in the good to very good range…when I stumble across an “OMG!!!” it's hard to maintain an degree of objective thought on the matter. I'm like an addict. I'm no longer satisfied with “very good”. I crave “OMG!!!” I sometimes think it would be better if I had a bunch of bad experiences. I'd be content with “very good”.

  • aldonza

    I mostly agree with this. I think that men underestimate the emotional needs that women have in a relationship and women underestimate the sexual needs that men have. Lots of my female friends joke about going long periods without sex and rolling their eyes at husbands who want more of it.

    I just cringe.

    That said, I also remember being the woman with the spit-up, exhausted from lack of sleep and a man who thought going to work everyday was harder than me staying home with two small children. (For the record, I've done both, work is way easier.) Did I resent him pawing at me at times? Yep. For me, fantastic foreplay would've been “I'll do the dishes and put the kids to bed, you go take a bath.”

  • aldonza

    Hehe, I wonder if there will ever be a drug to induce vasopressin in men. Women on the prowl for relationships could drop it into unsuspecting men's cocktails before taking them home for a hook-up. LOL!

  • susanawalsh

    No way! Crave OMG and don't settle for less! It's a sign that at least one major piece of the relationship would be awesome. I kind of felt sorry for the guy above who asked Dr. Fisher if he could have a long-term bond with his girlfriend even though he didn't feel passion for her. He should hold out for a stronger spark, IMO.

  • susanawalsh

    Haha, yup, I've been there too. Also, don't know if you experienced this, but when I'm breastfeeding? Don't touch them, they're not for you. I felt that way for ages!

    I have a friend who is very disappointed – her husband rarely initiates sex. It breaks her heart. Women should be careful what they wish for.

  • susanawalsh

    Love it! Roofies for guys! (Just kidding, I'm pretty sure that would be illegal.) Tempting, though.

  • aldonza

    Oh yes, when I was tandem nursing, I finally understood the phrase “touched out.” It wasn't just breasts. It was me. Like…he'd reach for me and I'd go tense and my mind would scream, “DON'T ****-ing touch me!!!”

    Thankfully it was a temporary time. It's also something I tell all couples with small children. “This is sexual survival mode. It doesn't last forever, I promise.”

  • susanawalsh

    Aldonza, are you a therapist? You seem like you really know your stuff, and you're talking to couples…

  • hambydammit

    Susan, I've never been a girl, so I can't really say this for sure, but I think a lot of sexual disagreements come from a frame of mind that says sex has to be magical to be worthwhile. As you say, it's amazing how a ten minute quickie right before sleep improves and promotes good sleep, and frankly, you don't need lots of foreplay and feelings of passion for it to work. And also, as I mentioned, the same ten minute quickie after work and before dinner can change a guy's mood from tense and high strung to relaxed and happy.

    Again, it's not romantic to think of relationships as contracts, but it's healthy. It's also healthy to view sex as a multi-purpose tool, not just as a way to express passion and love.

  • susanawalsh

    Hamby, I'm glad you replied, as I typed that I wondered what you would think of the quickie. I figured you'd be down – the ten minutes is more likely to be an issue for women than men. That's why I said this can work bets when you REALLY know your partner's body. You need to go straight to pushing the right buttons.

    Yes, women want romance with sex, but when you're having sex to please your husband, quick is probably best anyway. An O for you is a bonus.

  • hambydammit

    Susan, this whole conversation has really got me thinking. I'm going to have to dig through some journals to see if I can find any data on this kind of thing, but in the meantime, I want to know your best guess on something. How many women in say, the 18-25 age range, do you think view sex as their contribution to a healthy relationship? What I'm trying to get at is this: Is there a big problem of young women thinking of sex as something they *get* out of the relationship without realizing that it's part of what they need to *give*?

    I know in my generation (Children of the 80's) there seem to be a lot of women who view sex as something he'll get when he's lucky enough to get it. They view it as leverage. It's my personal belief (backed up by a lot of damn good research) that for a relationship to be truly healthy, men need to be freely giving with affection, gifts (whether material or effort), and silent listening, and women need to be freely giving with sex and sexual release. (In other words, get your guy off pretty much whenever he wants it.) I don't believe either sex should withhold these, as they are the foundation of creating feelings of love and safety in men and women, respectively.

    What I'm wondering, in a nutshell, is whether or not anyone is telling this generation how this stuff works.

  • aldonza

    Nope, not a therapist. Just your average, garden-variety geek. By “couples”, I mean just friends and such.

  • aldonza

    I'm in agreement that an occasional quickie can put everyone in a good mood. But there is a problem with taking even 10 minutes when kids are cranky and hungry and dinner has yet to be started. Further, a quickie before bed is also fine, so long as the “no foreplay, 10 minutes, snore” doesn't become a habit…which it can.

    What you call magical…I call an orgasm.

  • susanawalsh

    Well, I'll tell you – and I've been surprised to come to this conclusion – this generation of young women exhibit sex drives as active as mens'. Seriously, I was talking with a group of college women home over break, and they were saying “it's great to come home and get some ass without all the drama of a new hookup.” They view it as a pleasurable distraction, no strings, being with guys they hooked up with last summer, as comfortable as putting on a pair of old slippers. They made getting laid a priority. They give to get, in other words — it's mutual.

    I basically happily kept up with every guy I ever was involved with UNTIL I had kids. The dynamic really changed then, and my guess is that this generation will have that experience too. Before then you can give and get simultaneously pretty much, and everyone is happy. Once you're parenting, working, maintaining a household, you don't care about getting as much, and it's annoying that your husband does. So what has always been a plus is now an obligation. Overall, I think women deal with that pretty poorly. Many of my own friends have only occasional sex with their husbands. (Like a few times a year.) I don't know how or why the men tolerate it.

    One other thought: for me, giving my body over to pregnancy and then breastfeeding made me feel conflicted about sex. I felt like my body was for mothering, and I know that many women don't want their breasts touched sexually when they're nursing. It's a bit complicated.

    I think women used to use sex as leverage more than they do now, because they could then. Perhaps it's a feature of hookup culture – if men can get it easily, women will have to put out or be alone. It no longer buys them affection, effort or listening/empathy. Although I agree with your comments above — if sex precedes emotional investment, good sex is more likely to lead to a relationship.

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  • hambydammit

    I agree that ten minute quickies should not become habit to the point that they take away from more satisfying sex. I would also add that it's not always fun, and sometimes a lot of effort for you to take ten minutes when there's other things you'd rather be doing. And that's why a good, loving man will appreciate and hold onto a woman who does it for him — especially when she'd rather not.

    “No,” can become the standard response very easily. Dinner always needs to be cooked, and kids stick around for eighteen years (if you're lucky. Longer if you're not.) Women expect consistency, reliability, and increased effort from their men when life gets more complicated. In return, women should provide consistency, reliability, and increased effort in the area that men want most. That's being loving — giving someone something when you'd rather be selfish.

  • verie44

    Heh, I laugh when I read your comments. You're clearly so angry and full of venom toward women, and you accuse them of being illogical (How surprising! A misogynist using stereotypes about women) when you are the one freaking out and making all kinds of accusations when you can’t use logic to argue yourself out of a situation like in Susan’s past post.

    Let’s recap, shall we?

    “Me – ‘How is having sex, an activity that is mutually pleasurable for both parties, but only results in permanent consequences for one (the woman) in terms of financial & time burden as you would have it, “the essence of equality?’

    3dshooter — Because that is Nature's way. Let's face it you, like most women, want equality with a safety net. If I had to worry about getting pregger's you can be damned sure I'd be doing something about it and not looking to stick someone else with the bill for my choices – unlike yourself perhaps looking for society's laws to cover your poor choices? You strike me as nothing more than a whining woman seeking gender preference.

    Susan – “Oh boy, do I hate statements like this. If you are going to generalize about what all or most women want, then provide the research or the stats. I don't make categorical statements on my blog without backup links, and you shouldn't either.”

    Stop trying to be petty with your comments, 3dshooter. Susan made a statement, the likes of which are usually readily verifiable. You, in contrast, had an opinion about what all women are like: whiny and seeking gender preference, clearly untrue by any measure and clearly your own estimation of what most women are.

    Did you even bother to ask her whether she had proof of her statement before accusing her of being illogical and then generalizing the argument to include all women that are reading this blog to also be illogical? Of course you didn’t. But I’m not surprised, misogynists look for any opportunity to use stereotypes about women.

    So here’s a study for you: 94% of women vs. 6% of men have the DTR (define the relationship) talk. Here’s the citation:
    Wood, J. T. (1998). Gender Communication, and Culture. In Samovar, L. A., & Porter, R. E., Intercultural communication: A reader. Stamford, CT: Wadsworth. Look it up.

    Don’t bother posting if you’re going to be inconsiderate. And hypocritical. You say women are inconsistent? You yourself are. You say everything should be equal between men & women meaning (in your world) that women should foot the bill, childrearing, and time-consumption because “women fought for choice ” but yet you admit that “it’s nature’s way” for things to be unequal since women have the children and men don’t. Get your facts straight. Those two are opposing arguments – if one sex is penalized with an activity that is pleasurable for both, there has to be a penalty for the opposite sex, or else what kind of contribution is the man making to bringing the race forward?

    In the past when there was no birth control and no support for women if they had birth out of wedlock, there was MUCH LESS sex outside of marriage. It is hard raising a child on your own with no support (whether it’s financial or emotional/time share). It’s not fair either, again going back to the spreading of the genes issue. You want a return to 1950s style sex where you have to marry someone (and thus make her secure financially) before you can get into her pants? You can try and advocate for it, but I think most men would want to strangle you.

  • susanawalsh

    verie44, I went looking for the Wood study and found a plethora of great information, but couldn't find the stat you mention. It would be a great one to add to my sources – do you have a link?

  • verie44

    No, I just have the book, unfortunately.

  • 3dshooter

    Apologies for taking so long to respond, I have kids on Wednesdays and every other weekend – a thirteen percenter like so many dads. When I have them I don't spend much time in the ether.

    Relationships are about time and common interests. In the short term most anybody can accommodate the peculiarities of a sexual interest. Whether there's relationship potential is strictly a matter of time – measured in years, not months. If you don't know the answer and have to ask, you shouldn't be asking.

    As for my tone, I've earned it. After 24 yrs of being faithful and strictly committed to my family I found my ex had a spending problem. In addition to running up 10's of thousands of dollars in credit she also raided my dead father's estate account for a tidy six figure sum and already had an attorney on line. The state's answer – she gets to tear apart the family (primary custody to SAHM's 90%+ in my state), the house I paid for (see SAHM), half of what was left and to add insult to injury I get to pay $20K/yr under threat of the myriad c$ statues.

    I don't want to hear whiner's like Verie44 talk about how “hard it is”. I want equality. Assets divided according to contribution to community, c$ based on actual needs (food, clothing). And I'm willing to 'bitch-slap' anyone, male or female, who will not acknowledge that when it comes to whether a child is born is solely a woman's choice in our legal climate.

    And with choice comes responsibility – thus my repeated question – Equality or Preference, they are mutually exclusive and it doesn't matter one witt (sp intentional) how hard it is.

    Equality means – Your choice, your body, your re$ponsibility. And if a man is willing through 'Free Association' to stand by you, then you should thank him regularly. If that free association breaks down, his money goes with him (thus my offending comment that “you should kiss his feet every day”).

    Preference – is just that, a preferred position. In today's world, for women it seems, tissued with the thin veneer of equality. Equality with a safety net. And since 90% of men are non-custodial, less than 10% of women see the ugly side of the law and really have no awareness of it. Anecdotally, my lady friend whom I've been seeing for a couple years is now working with her ex to arrange 50/50 with no c$ after seeing what I've been through. My ex, on the other had lives quite nicely on her stipend and is as nasty as the day I caught her.

    So, as you 'might' be able to see, my tone comes from experience and years of researching the law, the movers behind it's passage, and the effects it has on men's lives. Where readers of yours like verie44 are simply idiots that cite debunked feminist tropes. She's not worth the time respond to because ultimately she will go to the old reliable fall backs of 'it's not fair' and 'it's so hard'. That girl needs to step up to the real world plate and live with her choices – then again why when she can be a monkey on someone else's back?

  • 3dshooter

    Verie, you are a misandriast idiot who does not warrant a response. Life is hard – get over it. That doesn't make it an excuse for you to be a monkey on someone else's back. No amount of research is going to convince your little feminist brain otherwise – and there's plenty out there if you get out of the debunked fem literature.

    You choose – you pay. it is as simple as that. Stop trying to make your turd smell like a rose – ain't happening.

  • verie44

    If I don't warrant a response, then why are you responding to my post, mentioning my name in another response to Susan, and (again) resorting to namecalling in the post above?

    Again, once I disprove your point that women and men can be equal in the bearing/raising of children, you just ignore that and change your argument to rationalize: “life is hard/unfair for women. Deal with it.” Again, that is the opposite of your original point that things should be equal.

    You can call me an idiot all you want, I recognize quite clearly that you disagree with me, but at least I do have research and facts to back me up while all you do is restate your opinions with no proof. If these “feminist tropes” that I'm citing are so debunked, please enlighten me & give me some research studies like I gave you where I can read how wrong I am. I will change my mind if there is good evidence to the contrary of my current opinion.

    I'm sorry you had such a horrible experience with your ex-wife, it sounds like she really took advantage of you. But your past experiences are clearly tainting your views in a negative, irrational way.

    By the way, you keep accusing me of not wanting to own up to my responsibility, implying that I am living off some poor guy using a child as a means of income, but you know nothing about me. If you'd read any of my past posts, you'd realize how untrue those accusations are. There is zero chance I would give birth to a child before I planned to, I would have an abortion first. I am just arguing the rationality of the point.

  • susanawalsh

    3dshooter, I agree that the ultimate potential of a relationship takes time to assess. However, many guys have zero interest in being in one, or in sacrificing their preference for sexual variety. When a woman is looking for a relationship, it behooves her to hold off on sex until she has figured out what kind of guy she's dealing with.

    Thank you for sharing your story – it is horrible. I am aware of the unfairness of many of the laws to men around divorce, custody and child support. I support those inequities being addressed, which is a complicated effort requiring mobilizing men, educating women, lobbying lawmakers, etc.

    So I agree that you've earned your bitterness and anger. What you have not earned is our patience. It is totally inappropriate for you to vent online at blogs such as mine. I'm trying to build a community of men and women who are interested in relationships. You don't know verie44, and you haven't argued with her in good faith. She has made valid points about the risks the female assumes in reproduction. I resent your calling her or anyone else a whiner, an idiot, or any of the other labels you've thrown around.

    You're welcome to comment here and participate in productive dialog. You have some important points to make, some of which we can discuss. But if you can't keep your tone civil, I'll ban you.

  • susanawalsh

    See above. Stop it or say goodbye.

  • 3dshooter

    Susan, you are a somewhat reasonable voice – as I had expected after lurking awhile after being pointed this way from a MRA site that I like reading. I know you have written in the past about the inequalities of our legal Juggernaut with regards to the treatment of me (though I doubt you could possibly understand the real personal extent of it). But, it is my observation that yours is the exception and not the rule when it comes to women's opinions.

    I may not have earned your patience, nor do I necessarily desire to do so. What I expect is equality – a state that seems to be gender specific to some of your following and, dare I say, women in general.

    You see – to me Hooking Up Smart means that both parties go in with the expectation that they and they alone are responsible for their actions. And if biology has dealt one gender greater risks for doing so, then they have the greater responsibly for ensuring a mutually satisfying outcome (without resorting to hiding behind misandriast laws that put others in a state of indentured servitude). It is as simple as that.

    What you get out of a relationship should be proportionate to what you put in. And today too many women expect to live lives as daddy's little princess on the back of some guy whose only redeeming attribute for them is his wallet.

  • susanawalsh

    3dshooter, I agree that equality is the objective. I'm glad to see that you acknowledge that biology has indeed treated the sexes differently – not a better deal, not a worse deal, but different. And I also agree that a woman needs to be responsible for her own body–it's foolish to rely on someone else for her physical safety or well-being. However, you must allow for the possibility of error with regard to birth control. The only method that is 100% effective is abstinence. A woman can take full responsibility and find that she is pregnant anyway.

    You rightly object to the practice of a woman using deceit to snare a guy into unwilling fatherhood. I don't know how to separate this schemer from the woman who has sex in good faith with all necessary precautions. The laws as written rely on DNA only, but perhaps there is another way. Intent seems relevant here.

    I don't doubt that there are many women who behave in the selfish way you describe. A woman like this will show her true colors very early in a relationship. She will demand that a man spend money on her from the first date, and will not be interested in dates that are not about money, e.g. bike ride, museum, etc. I write a lot of women needing to judge a man's character, but men would do well to think beyond the question of whether a woman is hot before he has sex with her. Even in a one-night stand, this question of character can change a man's life forever.

  • aldonza

    Except…as the PUAs are so quick to point out, how often do you run across an “OMG!!!” reaction with a Good Beta Male? This seems to be the crux of the problem for me.

  • susanawalsh

    That's why the PUAs have a valid point. Beta males need to step up their Game if they want to make women weak in the knees.

  • 3dshooter

    “A woman can take full responsibility and find that she is pregnant anyway”. Yes – and that can be dealt with as need be. If she “chooses” to carry it forth unilaterally, then that is her decision and one she should be solely responsible for that decision.

    “Intent seems relevant here. ” Intent should be the only basis of legitimate law, nothing else.

    “A woman like this will show her true colors very early in a relationship. She will demand that a man spend money on her from the first date, and will not be interested in dates that are not about money”.

    Personal experience forces me to disagree with this one. You see my ex had her last oops moment (and before you even go there, he's the apple of my eye and loves cooking with me) at 40, a Downs son and two years into pilfering my dead father's estate account. Seems child $upport is a pretty safe insurance policy for women when they know they've f'd up and can expect it 90%+ of the time. Just like the article that started this dialogue – dad only comes into play where $'s are involved.

    In addition I've sat having dinner by myself in public places where I've overheard women openly confiding in their friends that they were going for sole custody to get more child support. When an behavior becomes that socially acceptable it is beyond anecdotal – it has become a social pathology.

    So, I respectfully disagree that their true colors come out early. Their true colors only come out in times of distress. Their true colors may not come out until you catch them under the sheets with some other dude or up to their armpits in the family financial cookie jar – that's when you find out what they are truly made of.

  • ExNewYorker

    I'll add a male perspective here, that hopefully will be useful.

    The likely reason the guy wants to be good friends, after breaking up, is to keep “the avenues open”, if things don't work out for him outside the relationship that ended. It doesn't cost him much to contact the ex…and heck, it might bring some benefits on the side without much effort, if need be.

    The hardest question for a lot of women is: “Is what attracted me to him the same qualities that made him not interested in commitment?” To get a sense of the guy in question, it takes some amount of effort…what's his relationship to his family? What types of friends does he have? How does he treat people outside his immediate circle? If it's a mask, it'll be readily apparent to the observant…but it requires work, and not jumping into things at first sight.

  • susanawalsh

    Yes, I see that you have been truly burned by a bad woman. I'm sorry for that. All I can say is that I hope you will keep an open mind about the women you meet in the future. I imagine you don't intend to marry again, but we're not all bitches on the make….

  • susanawalsh

    “Is what attracted me to him the same qualities that made him not interested in commitment?”

    Very well said. I think there's a post in this!

    Thanks, ENY.

  • 3dshooter

    You are correct to assume that marriage is forever 'off the table' for this dude. And I also make sure that my son's are aware that in the current legal climate they should never marry either – for us guys it is a bad deal that should be avoided at all costs.

    Interesting that you fall back on the old fem line, or a variation thereof, “We're not all like that”. The problem is not that you are not all like that but that when you decide to be, the laws are decidedly biased in favor of women who do.

    Which brings me full circle to the original premise that started my comments on this thread:

    1) Default 50/50 custody, take the kids out of the divorce bullseye.
    2) Abolition of state mandated/enforced child $upport (custodial parents, primarily women, and state gov'ts, through Title IV-D funding, profit handsomely from the corruption of this abusive system and it has become so corrupt it is beyond reform).
    3) Distribution of assets based on financial contribution to the community – eliminate the 'Gold Diggers'.

    These three things will end much of the bickering and probably result in much lower divorce rates as women will no longer come to expect a 90%+ chance of cashing in on the practice.

  • alinafarace

    I tell you one of my favorite blogger got me thinking about how I have sex in the shower…logistically. Yes, there are space constraints, running water and slippery surfaces to contend with, but sex in the shower can be amazingly work. ? In fact, I’ve found sex in the shower to be incredibly hot and a welcome change of pace from the usual spots. If you are interested to today's night girls then join dating sexy girls clubs.
    http://www.adultxdating.us/blogs/sex-position-o

  • bluebird

    I met a guy thought a friend, we had sex (no drinking involved) after 3 times going out and when we still on the bed he asked me, was that just for fun, right? I need to be honest with you because apparently we have knowing each other very short and I just broke out with my girl for 3 month. Okay, I knew that we have seeing each other only few times, but I really don’t expect him to ask me our sex is just for fun, I didn’t answer him, I gave him a wired face, and he said aww you make me feel bad right now. and after that day he still calling me, we still going out and sometime we just sleep together without sex and he holds my hand or hug me through the night, I feel that’s very sweet of him, and he made comments on my facebook whenever I update my status or posting new pictures. He seems a very sweet guy, but he told me he doesn’t want to get a girl friend right now, girls are nagging, but for me I don’t want to waste my time on a casual friend, I want a real relationship, how should I tell him or hint him? I don’t know if our relationship can be real in one day.

  • http://www.hookingupsmart.com Susan Walsh

    @bluebird
    I’m sorry, but I do believe you are wasting your time with this guy. Please read my latest post, which deal with this question! He has already said, from almost the beginning that he is looking for fun only. Tell him that you do not want to see him anymore because you are looking for something more than casual sex. You can let him know that if he decides he wants a relationship, he is free to give you a call. Otherwise, you need to be done!

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