What Guys Are Really Saying About You When You’re Not Around
I found this online, and I’d say it’s a pretty representative sample of what young women are up against. Here’s what guys are really saying to each other when they think you’re not listening.
When you’re swimming in shark infested waters, it’s hard to come out unscathed. The best thing you can do is come equipped with the most powerful shark repellent you can find. Yesterday’s post about holding your own in the struggle for love and sex is the best repellent I have to offer right now. (Click here to read.)
The bottom line: SELF-RESPECT
Remember, once a shark smells blood in the water, you’re done for.
Anon34
Join Date: Jan 2010
Re Continually Hooking up with Multiple Women in College:
Ok I have had this problem for so long it has gotten so annoying that I made an account on this website for help.
WHO AM I: Frat guy in prestigious college with lots of hot (but smart) chicks
WOMEN I HOOK UP WITH: I hook up. Most girls I hook up with I try to keep hooking up with. Not for relationship, just because I want to be hooking up with multiple girls. I don’t want a relationship, but I hate that one night stand bullshit.
MY PROBLEM: I’ll hook up with a girl and she will be really into me so I try to keep it going. But I tell them to keep it secret because we arent (and wont ever be) dating and they go bonkers, getting jealous that im hooking up with other girls and asking why wont we date blah blah.It’s gotten so bad that I’ll literally be at a party and know like 3-4 girls that like me – why cant i just fuck all of them all the time? How can I be continually hooking up with multiple women without the girls going ape shit on me? I dont care if they are hooking up with other guys….I just want multiple.Is there any other answer besides “Find the right slut(s)”? I’m tired of trying to convince girls to keep shit secret, etc. It never works and I always end up looking/feeling like a douchebag.
Pussy Hunter
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Colorado Springs, Colorado
Age: 23
Well, it sounds like you are bringing up the question of a relationship first. The girls are supposed to ask first. Don’t even tell them to keep it a secret. In college, the more buzz about you other girls are hearing, the better. Not telling them to keep it a secret, will make them come back, even if it is under the false assumption of them being in a relationship with you. You should watch the college game/social circle video’s on you tube. It will make more sense when you watch it.
Anon34
They are always the ones who ask “What are we?” Haha trust me I am the last person to bring it up. But it always comes up. What do I say to that to keep them coming back? My school is really greek so all everyone in the greek system (frats and sororities) knows each other.
Cockyshit
Join Date: Jan 2010
Age: 20
oh god i have the same exact problem. i’m currently cycling between 2 consistent hookups and a handful of random ones. its so damn hard to make sure i dont hook up with one while the other’s around.
They’re blind to your feelings, they swim really fast, and they’ll eat you up and spit you out without a second thought. They are animals, following instinct, and it’s the survival of the fittest.
Surprise them. Be the fittest.
Related posts:
Any single woman who's read *any* of the PUA stuff would be horrified. Frankly, I think it should be required reading for all of them.
Wow, this makes me want to cry a little bit.
“I always end up looking/feeling like a douchebag” ahhh, maybe it is because you are one? Maybe that's too harsh – the dude is just trying to get the “relationship(s)” that he wants, and maybe he deserves that?
This makes me so glad I went to Mount Holyoke. Guys thought I was either a. a lesbian. b. so desperate for penis I'd sleep with anything with one or fingers crossed c. both. When it came clear I was d. none of the above AND I studied physics they ran fast like lightening. And thank moses for that.
“WHO AM I: Frat guy in prestigious college with lots of hot (but smart) chicks”
Smart? Not from the sound of it.
Hahaha, Decoybetty, I was a Smithie. Same deal.
This is discouraging, and the part of it I find most unpleasant is that they are actively trying to dodge the “what are we” conversation and look down on girls who ask. Girls who ask are just trying to protect themselves.
These guys ARE douchebags, not because they're looking for the kind of relationship they want, but because they're looking for it with girls they know DON'T want it and they're trying to secure their “relationships” by using deception. Why don't any of them have the balls to say “Hey listen, I really don't want anything serious or exclusive but I like you and I'd like to keep hooking up” ? Because they know that it's unlikely the girls they're with will go for that.
Now, undoubtedly there are girls who would be down with casually hooking up with someone who was casually hooking up with others, but these guys aren't putting any effort into finding them. In other words, they care WAY more about getting laid on a regular basis than they care about ensuring that the person they're getting laid by is actually cool with the arrangement.
Three cheers for The Sisterhood!
You're very right.
D, yeah I couldn't get over that tiny crisis of conscience at the end. I don't believe he feels a thing – he's just tired of being called one. It's one more blah blah convo he'd rather ditch.
Yes, thank Moses for Mt. Holyoke. And while you're at it, thank him for Inspector Climate. (I know you're grateful for such a great guy, and you should be!)
angharad, hi, good to see you! The deception is the worst. “Pussy Hunter” (god, where do these guys dream these names up? so embarrassing even to type that) comes right out and suggests a strategy to get girls to hook up “under the false assumption of them being in a relationship with you [sic].”
You're exactly right, they're maximizing their own satisfaction at the direct expense of another person. Their win is by definition a woman's loss. It really stinks.
Unfortunately very true. IQ smart? Yes. Hooking up smart? No.
Baaaahhh, I couldn't resist.
Holy hell. “i want multiple.”
i feel like this attitude is complete male chauvinism w/ little to no regard for other people (women). sexism is alive and fucking well.
This is supposed to be shocking? It's incredibly mild compared to the kind of thing I heard in college. Girls- the guys who you have sex with the most don't consider you a lower sort of human being, they don't consider you a human being at all. But me telling you that won't change anything.
Hi, I went through this situation this weekend. I saw the guy I had a continuous hookup with and called him out..saying yeah, I get that you were trying to play me, why can't you just admit to it and he STILL couldn't. He kept saying he liked me but I knew he was just lying and trying to get an easy lay. I told him I wasn't going to fall for him again, and it's like he didn't believe me, but I'm so proud of myself because I didn't fall for it. He dropped me the first time when I WOULDNT have sex with him, and then a month went by, I came back from break and he started blowing up my phone again. THe first time, he PRETENDED he wanted a relationship by asking to hang out and telling me he really liked me, but obviously he didn't because he dropped me SO fast when I wouldn't move at his speed. This past weekend, it's like he wanted to “finish me” and have sex but I just kept defending myself. I think the best thing you can do is call the guy out and prove that you are a strong individual who deserves better. I haven't found a better guy yet, but I'm not going to take everything a guy says so seriously anymore, because a lot aren't serious. They want to hook up the easiest way they can, will say and do anything for it, and won't care about your feelings. It's sad but you just have to wait for the right guy.
Women, if you keep ending up with guys like the ones described by susana, try changing your behavior. Trying something different will get you a different result if you really want a different result.
I won't be holding my breath waiting for any woman to change.
I agree with you Steveo, the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result. This blog is all about women trying to make a change to better themselves. You espouse this in your comment but I wonder if you apply that to yourself as well? I see your posts on here time and time again, but I don't see your negative attitudes toward women really changing. I wonder why you expect a different result: ie, some of them being “willing to share” themselves with you, as you put it in Susan's last post.
I dunno. I feel so tremendously old sometimes. In my day? We would hunt down the 'frat rats' for sport and pick on them. They were rich 'mommas boys' or 'daddy's idiot 'legacy entrant' who knew next to nothing about 'real life', and expected to be sheltered from most of the vagaries of same and catered to 'hand & foot' while generally being lazy 'layabouts' who needed no extra jobs like the rest of us. They were some of the most silly, stupid, entitled drunken louts we knew. And we'd roll them for sport & profit. And yeah, they'd sometimes (but rarely actually) get their whole frat to defend them, but were still beaten at their own game. Not too many 'golden gloves' among their number way back then. But I guess it goes through cycles.
The real smart chicks? Would never be caught dead inside of a frat. Although some were indeed. Which was the point after all. They were generally considered dangerous wastrels capable of almost any heinous crime, and could and would get off scott free due to their crony 'connections' with various authorities. Did they get more sex? Do some people run after people with money? SSDD. Cheers, 'VJ'
Ha! Exactly! You're hooking up a few times, then you ask, “What are we?” all the while you're hoping for a relationship? In today's chaotic dating market, people need to be upfront with want they want.
Exactly. Most of them aren't even looking for sex. They're looking for something warm to masturbate into.
Aldonza, just to be clear, these are college guys who are finding tips on a PUA forum. When I wrote about Game the other day, I specifically highlighted these types as very dangerous for women. They're young guys who will take a tactic or two from the PUAs and run with it. And the success that Anon34 is having with his “mulitiples” is proof that women will buy into this kind of arrangement, no matter how foolish or stupid it makes them.
OK, yes. But come on, Anon34 hates and dreads those conversations, which he makes clear by referring to them as “why don't we date blah blah.” Do you think when a woman says she wants to date him, he honestly tells her that will never happen and shows her the door? No, he says:
Why can't we see how things go for a while?
Well, I'm not hooking up with anyone else.
I would be a terrible boyfriend, but I really like you.
I'm too busy to be in a real relationship, but I really like you a lot.
If a woman is upfront, the guy will either vanish or lie much of the time. Women “go along to get along” in the hopes that a guy will develop feelings for her, or love the sex so much he won't crave it with anyone else. And we all know how that turns out.
Further, if he had any game, he'd know how to manage a harem. Believe it or not, there are women who are willing to play the occasional hookup among many game. And those women are far more likely to be willing if they know the score, are treated with respect and the sex is good.
Hi, Nina, thanks for leaving a comment. Seriously, when I read that, “I want multiple” I was disgusted. He doesn't even care if she's hooking up with other guys.
Not only does this make him an STD playground, it also makes him a total a-hole. The guys on this thread are 100% insensitive to the feelings of the women they are having sexual intercourse with. Hence the shark analogy.
Well, I was shocked, and I'm not exactly new to thinking about this stuff. The sheer crassness and lack of empathy is shocking. Perhaps guys talking this way is nothing new, but women having access to these “private” conversations is new. Anonymity protects these guys online, but women would do well to understand what college men say to each other when the gloves are off.
You're right, there is no shared humanity here. This is what guys mean when they call women “cum dumpsters.”
Hey, collegegirl1! This is a GREAT comment from a woman who's living it right now. I'm really proud of you for standing up for yourself! It's like you already did what I recommended in the post about the book Why Men Love Bitches.
It is true that you have to wait for the right guy, and that can take a while, and be boring and lonely. All I can say is that it is better than giving in to a guy like you describe. As you say, a guy who will drop you if you want to take it slow is BAD NEWS, and doesn't care about you at all. Think about it: a woman says, “I don't feel ready for sex, I think that would be bad for me/mess me up.” What kind of a guy keeps pushing? A guy who doesn't care AT ALL about you or the way he treats women in general.
By the way, your standing up for yourself here could play out in a number of ways:
1. You never hear from the guy again = Good riddance.
2. He now steps up his efforts to score, your resistance has increased his determination, again. = He's still a very bad bet.
3. He will try to go back to square one and start over again, convincing you he has changed and wants to hang out. = Tricky.
Some relationships do begin with hookups, no question. But if someone has already treated you poorly, that's a terrible foundation for a relationship. You're better off holding out and waiting for someone mature enough to want real emotional connection with a sexual partner. That may be tough to find in college, esp. in the places where DBs congregate.
Great advice here, steveo. It's simple but says it all.
Aldonza, it's true, there are women who will go the harem route, but most of them are older than this crew. Most of these idiots will never know how to manage a harem, hopefully. Many of them will get to about the age of 27, and start looking like decent guys. They'll look back on their college days and freely admit they were idiots. Maturity will take care of a lot of this. But in the meantime? Caveat emptor.
The Greek scene varies by school, and even by region. However, even schools without one have similar alternatives, like “social clubs,” “eating clubs,” etc. The natural Alpha males will always find ways of grouping together and enjoying their status. And women will always gather round them. That's inevitable.
By the way, many guys going off to college who are not “naturals” will do everything in their power to join frats, so that they can hop onto the gravy train of NSA sex.
Well, the guy should be upfront and say that he doesn't want a relationship and accept the consequences and the girl should be upfront by giving her number and saying let's do something that doesn't involve hooking up at a frat party. You know, boyfriend-girlfriend stuff. If he treats her like a booty call she needs to deep six that shit.
VOMIT!!!
That is all I have to say. However I wish that this mentality stayed in college, but let me tell you it is alive and well in the “real world” As my friend told me recently, after a bout of me making some REALLY bad choices, “Wake up and smell the douchebag!!”
I agree 100%, that's kinda my reason for being and blogging, haha.
Yup, women need a wakeup call. If you wanna have sex with a guy, that's cool, just DON'T KID YOURSELF ABOUT WHAT HE'S REALLY THINKING. This post is a perfect illustration of what guys are thinking.
As a married woman who got hit on more when I got married than when I was single, I totally agree with Rebekah. Jerks still abound, and the worst are the middle aged married ones who hit on married women because they think we're “safe.” That means if we're dumb enough to have a fling with them, we'd keep quiet and keep it secret because it's to our best interest to do so, and they wouldn't have to worry about being found out.
I recall a friend of my husband's who actually called me 6 months after my youngest was born on the pretext of scheduling a soccer game for our eldest boys (alarm bells already at my end: why was he calling ME and not my hubby, who was his friend?) then lowered his voice and seductively said, “I hear you've been working out a lot–I bet your sexy body's back again, huh?” I frostily replied, “why don't you ask my husband? He's right here,” and proceeded to hand the phone to him. The douchebag NEVER tried again, and keeps a VERY respectful distance whenever we meet in social gatherings. And when other men try, I freeze them out right from the get-go. It doesn't flatter me in the least because, really, what other motivation do married men have when they hit on married women? Nothing good, period, and it's up to us ladies to send the message that we don't play that way.
Even in their 40s, guys STILL talk amongst themselves about women like this. A good friend of mine, also married, found out about this the hard way. I've been warning her about her flirting with another married lawyer, telling her it would get her a rep. She said, “oh, but we only flirt when there isn't anyone else around–who would know? Besides, it's harmless, we never take it beyond that.” Fast forward a few weeks later, when she realized she's now the subject of nasty rumors that she's ALREADY slept with this man. Now she gets a LOT of other married men hitting on her. That's when she realized the man she'd been flirting with was the one starting the rumors about her in the first place, bragging about a conquest that never happened, just for his own ego, and that other men picked up on it and now want to try if they can get the same action.
So girls, the take away lesson here is this–there are men who will NEVER grow out of being jerks, who will still try to get into your pants and treat you as nothing more than an easy lay. Keep watching your backs.
For many years I had a positive attitude towards women. What did that get me? Nothing but crap from women. Getting jack squat would have been an improvement.
Having a positive attitude towards women did nothing but get me crap from women so I did change my attitude towards women. I did follow my own advice.
Once i went in a road trip with a bunch of guy 'friends'. While in the car, i fell asleep but woke up to a conversation that completely disgusted me. They thought i was sleeping still and were discussing my group of girlfriends. They were counting who they had f.. with, what did they do with them, why they didn't like them (saggy tits; said one of them), and things they'd do and say to deceive them into keep hooking up. One of them, who was very regurlarly hooking up with my friend – she thought they were actually dating- he said, 'this chick is so good in bed, man, you have to try her. Let's get her drunk so you can f.. her and see yourself' –
Well, since i've always had close male friends, none of this surprised me too much, I kinda knew what guys really think when they're just hooking up. But it was a completely different experience to hear those things about my friends (and also, about me, since i was hooking up with one of them at the time). The most deplorable part is that those guys were not college frats, I'm talking about 29 -year-old's. Saddly, that mentallity is very alive in the real world for some guys.
OMG! That's as bad as this post! It's all pretty disgusting, but the worst is the deceit guys are willing to employ with ZERO regard for the well-being of the woman. This plan to get your friend drunk and share her is immoral. And by the way, the issue of consent is relevant here. How drunk? So drunk she doesn't know what's going on? I believe that's called rape.
The other terrible thing about this story is that the woman who is the target of this scheme THINKS THEY ARE DATING. WTF?
I don't even need to say it. You all know what she should have done differently.
Missed the point entirely, Steveo. You changed the wrong thing. This should be clear to you, since you've said it hasn't worked: you're still not getting any, right? I would argue that a positive attitude that not all women are hateful bitches and learning some game would be your best bet.
I also wonder though if sometimes guys embellish things and say things they actually don't mean in front of their friends just to appear as though they are the biggest alpha male / care the least about women / can be the most outrageous with their stories?
I know it's not really an excuse, and a lot of guys really do just think horrible things about women (read The Average American male for exact detail on how horribly a man can think day to day), but I have a hard time believing that all men are as bad as the man in that book or in this situation. I had a male friend tell me that while guys do think some things that are similar to what was in that book / in this situation, they more aspire to be that guy rather than are that guy. There's a lot of pressure on guys to appear like the hardest, biggest badass to their friends.
In any case, if that book and this scenario are really true of all men most of the time, it would make me want to erradicate all men from the face of the planet. Men don't want to be reduced to a wallet / child support payment? Women don't want to be reduced to their bodies and sex either.
verie, that's a good point. It's very possible that guy is saying that to impress his friends, but would never really be down for such a scheme. Research shows that guys on college campuses believe 75% of other guys had sex the previous weekend, even though the number is 5-10%. So obviously, they're not all sitting around complaining about a dry spell, they're making stuff up. Also, when guys describe their sexual exploits, they will often describe having made the woman writhe with insane pleasure, even though that's just a scenario they stole from some porn flick. The problem is that the guys hearing the story start to second-guess their own sexual experiences, where the woman remained control of her faculties, and they feel inadequate. When they finally do get some, they're likely to exaggerate for effect, so as to join the club.
Re the Chad Kultgen books, the Average American Male and The Lie are both so profoundly disturbing! While it's hard to imagine, they reflect reality, let's not forget that this post is real. This is the way guys talk when women aren't around. That's also profoundly disturbing.
The only reason a woman may find this offensive is that women (especially in the age of feminism) feel ENTITLED to relationships. There is nothing written anywhere that says you deserve anything other than sex – which is far more primal a need anyway than “relationships”. ALL men need and like casual sex – it is the female resource that men value most. So that if women are having casual sex ALL the men will want to have it and not want relationships. Why does that offend women? Women only seem to get pissed about men wanting free pussy when it's the BETAS who want to get laid but have no problem lavishing pussy on alphas.
In this day and age when women have declared themselves sexually and economically liberated, NONE of them should feel entitled to or even expect a relationship. Additionally, relationships are inherently unattractive to men because:
1. Relationships are almost completely defined from the female and feminist perspective.
2. Men are relationship objects to women, who are only valued for their social status, and whose relationship needs and experience is not taken into account by women AT ALL (see: this blog and many other female-centric ones like it, Sex and the City, all romance novels, chick flicks and soap operas, etc). The real needs of actual men are simply invisible and irrelevant to most women.
3. Relationships and “love” are the method through which women extract evolutionary resources from a man – time, emotional support, status, money, etc – and as such benefit women FAR more than they do men – ESPECIALLY in this day and age when men have nothing to get in return from women as women are not obligated to do anything – not femininity, sex, nesting/house chores, cooking, or any of the nice feminine nurturing/nesting things MOST men like and emotionally need from women. Men need a wife not a female husband. We do not care about status/power/career in women to the extent that women care about it in men – but of course this message will never sink into the heads of most of modern masculine women.
3. Men take a hit to their status by entering into a committed relationship, and only desire it if they feel they have satisfactory sexual wealth (casual sex, notch counts) as other men, and especially as much as women. This is why the current envirionment, where alphas and women hold all of the sexual wealth, and masses of men (betas) are in sexual poverty, only drives men away from relationships. Men CAN easily survive without relationships – feminists are about to see their bluff called – but NOT without less casual sex than other men (and certainly not less than women).
4. Men resent sexual dependency, ie having to enter relationships simply to get consistent sex. MOST men are in this situation, aside from of course alpha males. This means men do not actually select a woman for relationship qualities or actually enjoy the relationship, but simply enter into relationships for “sexual survival”.
5. This is why men need sexual independence via sexual outsourcing and replacements (legalized prostitution, virtual porn, etc), male reproductive rights (male birth control, paternity rights, choice 4 men, etc), and Game, to improve beta male status relative to alpha males and to improve the status of all males relative to women (women don't respect men who are “equal” or less than themselves) – ultimately to reduce the sexual wealth gap between beta males and alpha males/women. Women need to start spreading the pussy around, so that not only alphas are getting laid but also betas, and until that happens, men collectivel will simply go on a relationship and marriage strike. It is already happening.
Wrong. Sex is far more a primal need than relationships? Not really. Sex is for making children, which relationships are necessary to have in order to raise. So a man's need for sex is equalled by a woman's need for a relationship — you need both to satisfy nature's pull on each of the sexes to procreate.
Women feel entitled to a relationship because the point of sex is to create children and it takes 18 years of hard work from a male and female parent to raise a child. It would be a different story if a woman was raising a clone of herself, but as it happens, she's also raising 50% of the man's genetic material as well if she's not in a relationship or depending on the man in any way.
1. Relationships are not really defined by anyone in any way anymore. That's why everyone is just feeling around in the dark unless things are stated outright — see the poster's comment above you, the woman thought they were dating, the man clearly only saw her as a fuck buddy.
2. Yeah, let's just make huge sweeping statements like “Men are only valued for their social status and whose relationship needs and experience is not taken into account by women AT ALL.” I could counter this with “Women are only valued for their appearance and sexual performance and their feelings about being traded out for a younger/different model of themselves is not taken into account at all” but I'll avoid the huge generalizations that are clearly not true of all men.
3. Women take a hit to their status by sleeping around with a lot of men who are not in committed relationships with them. Men CAN survive without relationships but unhappily do so. Men who have gotten a lot of ass like Neil Strauss & other pickup artists admit at the end that the endless string of women is ultimately unfulfilling and empty. Neil ended up in a serious relationship with one woman when he arguably could have been with 2 different hotties each night, and Mystery has girlfriends as well rather than a bunch of one-night stands. And you said that masses of men (betas) are in sexual poverty, which only drives men away from relationships. However, before that, you said “if women are having casual sex, ALL the men will want to have it and not want relationships.” So why should women have random sex? It's not in their best interest to get a relationship BY YOUR OWN ADMISSION. That's why the love isn't being spread, my friend.
4. Women resent having to have sex (arguably their best card) before being in a relationship and few women would choose to do so if they could be committed first. Men enter a relationship for “sexual survival”? Well a lot of times women have sex first with a guy to have a chance at a relationship with that guy. So women aren't any better off.
5. I agree that women need to start considering beta males more, but I disagree that they should “reduce the sexual wealth gap” by having random sex with betas. That will only result in women getting even fewer relationships than they currently do. The solution for women (maybe not for your optimal result, sorry) is to demand something in return for sex from anyone (ie, a relationship), but to do so with the genuinely good guys — usually betas — who actually care about them (of which population I'm not sure you're a member of).
Darktruth, you are speaking of women in aggregate here, and I don't accept that. I agree 100% that women prefer relationships to casual sex for the most part. Throughout history, until the last 50 years or so, access to sex was generally granted by women in exchange for commitment. We know that's all been thrown out the window. Now we have Alphas (20%) scooping up about 80% of the sex. The only winners here are the Alpha males, and the women who find to their amazement that they can score with Alpha for one night. Everyone else is miserable, men and women. Most men aren't getting any sex, and most women aren't getting the relationships they crave. Alphas are pretty much having tons of sex with Girls Gone Wild, which I estimate to be about 20% of women.
The rest of the women are trying to find a relationship, feeling discouraged, humiliated and frustrated a good deal of the time. The beta males feel shut out and angry. My point is that not all women have declared themselves economically and sexually liberated. Women are capable of earning their own way, and wish to. That fulfills a basic human need. There are some women who embrace “having sex like a man,” but in my experience most women find this very difficult to pull off.
If you take the time to read my recent posts (and I know you've been reading several), you'll see that I am all about women broadening their search for quality men, many of whom are natural Betas. I've openly stated that I married a Beta, and he is quite happy to acknowledge that as well. Betas make great partners, as they have many of the qualities women seek in a mate.
But honestly? A beta with a crappy attitude, hating on women? He's not going to get laid, EVER.
A man could “hate” on women as much as he pleases and still get laid at a reasonable pace as long as he understands Game (most men do not yet) which is why it has quickly become the core component of the Male Rights Movement. IOW, sexual independence from women and their hateful and oppressive choices. You can't wage 50 years of gender warfare on men and expect us to want to give you anything you want. I and most other men (alpha, beta and otherwise) raised under feminism (Gen-X and Y) are proud misogynists. We absolutely loathe women – and rightly so, only needing them for the one thing they still can provide. Our dream is to kill relationships, marriage and chivalry forever and simply use women's liberation/feminism against them – to turn them into sex slaves.
Its been clear to me for awhile that there is no rational discussion to be had between the genders and WAR is the only answer. As is routinely discussed in the MRA and PUA communities, the key to winning this war (which men didn't start, btw) is outsourcing women and the services they provide (legalized prostitution, virtual porn, import foreign women, affordable surrogacy), as well as improving male sexual market position via Game/PUA (use women for sex, go on relationship and marriage strikes, kill chivalry and all social/gov't support of women) and male rights (mandatory paternity testing, pre-nups, choice 4 men) – to drastically reduce the “price” of pussy and therefore female power over men forever.
In a free society it is inevitable that women will choose (due to evolutionary hardwiring) to have the most sex with alpha males. Which gives neither alpha nor beta males incentive to have relationships with women. Alphas are living it up, betas are resentful, omegas have dropped out of the game. Women are all femi-skanks. There is no use for relationships, women are only good for sex. Sorry.
*carefully ignoring the femi-skank comment*
Evolutionary hard-wiring isn't a simple matter. Women do have innate sexual attraction for alpha behaviors. We also have equal (if not stronger) hard-wiring to seek relationships. The tricky part is, we also have other competing instincts along with higher brain functions to mediate.
That is, I have innate urges that I ignore all the time for my better good. My evolutionary ancestors had a marked preference for sweet foods, but if I indulged in that continually it would be against my best interests.
I feel very sad that you see women as such the enemy and so one-dimensionally that you've taken yourself to the point where you've become a one-dimensional caricature yourself.
You made no new points that weren't already stated in your original argument, so this paragraph is boring to read. The one new thing you did say was “women are only good for sex.” If you really feel that way, then stop whining that “men are relationship objects to women, who are only valued for their social status.” If women are to be reduced to pussies, men should also be reduced to their money / social status. In this take no prisoners world, I guess that just makes you evolutionarily unfit; the beautiful women and rich/powerful men win, you and all the beta / omegas lose, and so do all the women who are HB7s and lower. Game over. Sounds like everyone gets what they want in your universe, huh?
I guess this post is wholy appropriate as women should see what kind of men are out there and what they say about women anonymously / to each other.
This doesn't even deserve a response. You need therapy, honestly. And NO, most other men raised under feminism are NOT proud misogynists. Only in your twisted mind is that true, since you clearly have a lot of trouble seeing things from anyone else's viewpoint. I have tons of guy friends who absolutely respect & love females, and who are in great relationships with wonderful women. Even if they weren't regularly getting laid, they wouldn't use their own shortcomings as an excuse to hate on 50% of the world because chances are, it's not women as a whole/society that has the problem, it's you, Darktruth.
And as other countries begin to also grant women more rights (it's happening in the middle east, eastern europe, and some parts of latin america), how are you going to continue to outsource? Sure, you can pay for sex & porn, but that's not part of reducing the price of pussy now is it? Having a mother who is from one of these countries American men collect brides from (no my dad isn't American), the women know what's up over there. They know that a lot of you looking for a wife there either 1. couldn't get an American wife because you're too low-status in the US or 2. want to take advantage of their less liberal society to use them in various ways that an American woman wouldn't put up with. What you don't realize is that a lot of these women will get their green card and then leave your ass for greener pastures once they're in the US if you treat them poorly.
It's really sad to see you and other men in such a dark place, but I just hope women spot you and any other MRA / PUA womenhaters that read this blog (I know you're out there) before they get involved.
Consider yourself banned, Darktruth. Why did you come here? To hurt women? You disgust me.
Touche, Aldonza, and good riddance Darktruth. Banned.
Verie, watching you debate Darktruth was painful, due to the difference in reason and intellect. I applaud you for your patience and civil tone.
A beta with a crappy attitude, hating on women? He's not going to get laid, EVER.
So it works for alphas either natural or simulated with game? The answer seems to be yes.
The beta males feel shut out
We don't “feel” shut out. We are shut out.
Sure, some women are too stupid to stay away from men who loathe women. That's because those men are naturals or have tight Game, as you say. Those women will be miserable soon enough.
A guy without natural abilities or Game to arouse sexual attraction who loathes women? That's not a winning combination.
A beta guy who is a man of good character and displays positive self-confidence around women, even if he hasn't been schooled in Game? Yes, this guy won't be a Player, but he can do quite nicely for himself in a relationship.
Many guys with a negative attitude of women get laid and get relationships with women all the time.
Women are the gatekeepers of sex, as Susan said. But I think the following should be a little more explicit: men are also gatekeepers, not so much of sex (most of the time this gate is open if not nearly begging to be gone through) but of emotional validation, of affection and such things.
The tragedy is that many men either don't know and understand how to use their position as gatekeeper to the mutual benefit of themselves and women, either make gross abuse of that position (such as leading a girl into thinking that they are “dating” while they only want a fuckbuddy).
The analogy can be taken further: if women should be enthusiastic about sex, so should men be enthusiastic about fulfilling the emotional needs of women. Men don't need much encouragement for sex, and neither do women for fulfilling emotional needs. Their techniques may need some finetuning (occasionally a total overhaul) but the wish is there, generally speaking.
So, girls and women, don't just join facebook groups such as “45 things a girl wished her boyfriend knew”, make sure they know what to do and give them awesome sex in return when they do it. And walk when they are only after pussy and ass (except when that's the only thing you want at the moment).
And men: don't just join facebook groups such as “we want more miniskirts at university X”, make sure you know how to make a girl happy – and make her happy – before getting to the awesome sex (and other perks) you should get for making her happy.
It doesn't matter too much who starts the virtuous circle of awesome (and much) sex in exchange for emotional care and tenderness, as long it gets started. Probably it's best to start with an emotional connection, both because of the greater risk the woman has by having sex and because sex seems to be much better when done with someone you care for.
Just make sure everyone knows it's an exchange where they have to give to get. Otherwise we get either hooking up as it is now, or its inverse but with women at the top instead of those alpha asshats – but maybe beta's would even then be better off, since they would at least be getting some sex for emotional tenderness: women seem to want relationships much more, and sex is probably important enough for women also to get some. More demand for relationships would be good, since beta's would then probably get more in them.
I hope this was somewhat coherent and interesting (without too much awkward grammar and/or spelling).
Vjatcheslav, wow, this is an awesome comment. It's great advice for both sexes. Thanks for jumping in. It's very valuable to cut to the chase in this way – men need to step up emotionally and women need to step up sexually. It doesn't matter if we think that's fair to individuals–that's how we're built, and if we're going to make it work, there's got to be real effort on both sides.
BTW, your English is excellent, no worries.
Bullshit. I've dated more than a few “betas”. In fact, those labels are so fluid and distorted by the PUA camps as to be almost useless. Is a low-value guy who learns a few PUA tactics and starts having sex really an “alpha”? What about a guy who is successful in his career, family relationships, community, but just doesn't get a lot of casual sex? Is he really less alpha than the loser couch-surfer banging the club hos?
“Beta” is a poorly defined term, but it generally, when used disparagingly, it means being passive, clueless about girls, or just lacking that predator mindset. The girl expects the guy to be the physical aggressor. She stands around wondering why the guy doesn't just kiss her already. A beta is more likely to go the traditional date route, all the while nervously thinking he's totally screwing it up, rather than go for the drunken hookup at a party.
A male is not taught how to win the heart of a girl from his father. He gets advice from his mother, his sister, and his sister-in-law. He hears, “be yourself,” and “girls like flowers,” and “give her a compliment,” but he doesn't hear, “Take charge and plant one on her, or have you balls dropped off?” Without a manual (for game) a beta male is hopeless in the dating arena.
That's an important point you made! Fathers need to tell it like it is! That would seem to me to be an important responsibility, something a father should take seriously.
So when is someone going to ask the WOMEN to take some responsibility and NOT sleep with a man until they've been dating for a good few months? Afterall, if its “relationship” that these women want, why don't they put the time and effort into creating one BEFORE sleeping with a guy?
I don't get it.
Hi womanist, welcome. That's actually a lot of what I do here – encourage women who want relationships to have sex once they care for a guy and know his character. I don't specifically say a few months – that's HIGHLY unusual in today's world. But I do urge women to have standards, and to uphold them when getting involved with men.
Yeah, but they have what you don't: game. Get some and then let's talk.
Hahaha. Listen up, Steveo – she's giving you good advice!
Because with sex, the woman will have something the man can not take back.
It is not as if a man can break up with a woman and take his sperm back.