Today’s post is a reality check, a down and dirty look at the culture of sexual congress at America’s colleges. To those readers who attend or have recently graduated from college, this post is not likely to reveal anything suprising, though I hope it will amuse. For the many readers who may not have been on a college campus in the last few years, I bring you a handful of real examples from the sexual marketplace, circa 2010. This post is likely to surprise you, at least I hope it will. It didn’t fail to shock me, and I am more aware than the average person of these shenanigans. I was inspired to write this after a reader wondered just how intense male peer pressure is around hooking up. My thoughts immediately went to the incredibly popular website Bro Bible.
Launched in the fall of 2008, Bro Bible exists for no other reason than “Every bro has a story.” You are encouraged to sign up and be part of the Brommunity, where you can muse about important topics such as jerking off at work, or whether you hate goths or hipsters more. In the last year their daily traffic has gone from 2,000 visitors to about 175,000. JEALOUS! I learned of it when a few women readers reported that it is wildly popular among their college guy friends. While the site is dedicated to everything bro, there does seem to be a strong representation from the Lacrosse Community. I think it’s fair to say that we’re talking about a pathologically testosterone-filled audience here.
One of Bro Bible’s most popular columnists is a dude who calls himself Waffles McButterface. Here are some choice excerpts from his Top 10 Reasons to Stay Single This Summer:
Spending your summer in a monogamous relationship is about as festive as spending your childhood in an orphanage. It’s like waking up on Christmas morning only to realize that you are a fucking Jehovah’s Witness… or poor.
This isn’t a list of reasons why you should dump your girlfriend and fuck everything that moves (although, not a bad idea). So if you found someone worth holding on to, by all means, grab that 6.5 by the horns (cause chicks under a 7 usually have them) and ride her hard.
10. When a man is bogged down by a broad, and I mean really on a short leash, he is no longer fun, he is instead a convivial shell of his former self.
9. Never bring your own sand to the beach. When you make the commitment to spend your weekends in a beach town (I suggest you all do this at least once in your life), you’ve not only made an obligation to yourself, but you have made a giant commitment to your dick.
8. Sex with random broads. Um, yep, no explanation needed here. In fact, if you need one, get the fuck off this site.
7. Summer is bound to leave your bank account in complete disarray. Now, try and toss some freeloading floozy into that mix and, well, that’s just not fiscally responsible.
6. Even that fucking soggy cum sock New Jersey has some fine beachside properties in the summer months. But, if you’re attached to a lead sled you might have to wave your Bros, and countless moments of breathtaking road-trip belligerence, goodbye because you forgot that you promised your girlfriend that you would go to her younger brother’s ballet recital.
5. Once the weather warms up, every chick — save for the ugly ones who are yearlong alcoholics, battling mirror-induced depression — starts drinking like prohibition just ended. On top of that, they wear considerably less. And what does that mean for you? More pussy is going to be up for grabs.
4. [Last year you] did something that completely sucked with your summer, like circumcising third-world infants and then making modest shoes from their recently shanked foreskin. A summer full of despicable behavior, unfettered sex, and a complete lack of compassion will get your life and chay back on track.
3. Every single night of the summer, your boys are going to be out scouring the village for pussy to pillage while you are at your chick’s house scrapbooking while “Gossip Girl” fills the extended gaps of silence.
2. Even your best Bro will someday begin to pass on pigs and settle down with a broad who is a worthy adversary. So if you’re not going to stay single for the present, do it for the future. Do it because someday you won’t be able to.
1. To do whatever the fuck pleases you, when it pleases you to do it….Getting hitched with a broad doesn’t just affect your dick’s frame of mind and your social life. Like a cancer, a relationship can eat away at other aspects of your being.
I have been on both sides and let me tell you, spending your summer fucking dozens of women, boozing with your Bros, and doing whatever you want is never going to be something you regret.
This is what male peer pressure looks like. A guy in a relationship is a pussy-whipped, pathetic loser with no balls. It takes a strong young man who embraces his inner beta to take the plunge.
As if this kind of bro enabling wasn’t discouraging enough for young women, Bro Bible has found the skankiest chick ever to cross over and write for them:
Maggie Carter caught the eye of Bro Bible staff with her raunchy Tweets. Worried about future employment prospects she states:
I changed my Twatter name [to Magna Carta] because I want to be employed somewhere other than the Moonlite Bunny Ranch one day.
Doubt it. She’s on the Lena Chen road to nowhere good. Google never, ever forgets.
A sampling of Magna Carta’s comely snippets from the lovely month of May:
- I would rather listen to “couples” bang in their study carrels than listen to them whisper sweet nothings into each others’ ears. BARF
- Health center remedy for conjunctivitis: place teabag on eye. Do I look like the kind of chick that would willingly teabag myself? Fuck offf
- I’m afraid the only thing I can attribute my A in Spanish class to is making sexy eyes at the professor.
- My ear is clogged. No, not with semen, unfortunately.
- I’ve successfully hit many new life low points today. Teach 4th graders Spanish drunk? Check. Throw up while driving? Check. Dignity? Gone.
- Fiery throat? Sore mouth? You mean there’s a remedy for sucking too much D??
- I’m glad to know that the Young Stallion’s back wounds are from bush-jumping with you, not bush-diving with me (for once).
And in an effort that will surely make her parents proud, her first article for Bro Bible is Demystifying the DTF (Down to F*ck) Chick. First, she introduces herself by defining the DTF Chick:
The girl who won’t text message you incessantly with mindless banter, follow you around at parties like a helpless puppy, or break up your priceless “chay time” to hang out with her. She’s what I like to call a chick who’s DTF — I’m one of them, and I want to help you bag one of your own.
Suffering from the delusion that DTF chicks are hard to spot in a crowd, she offers some sage excerpted advice, undoubtedly meant for top of the food chain, cognitively challenged lacrosse bros.
How to Spot the DTF Chick in the Wild
I know what most of you are thinking, and no, that random girl you banged last weekend who may be a 5 on a good hair day isn’t a true DTF chick. There’s a big difference between a broad who will spread ‘em for anyone in the hopes of catching a winner and a girl who’s DTF. The DTF chick isn’t a slut; she’s merely a girl who knows what she wants and is comfortable in her own sexuality.
- She’s independent, knows how to chill, and most of all, isn’t looking for something serious. No stress, no drama —she’s simply DTF.
- You won’t find her glued to a pack of needy-looking chicks standing in the corner of a party; she does her own thing.
- She will most likely be the girl more actively involved in drinking games with the bros than gossiping with the girls.
- She knows how to work the body she has while still leaving something to the bro’s imagination.
- Although DTF, she still has standards and chooses her partners wisely; not any bro will do.
- She’s looking for the male equivalent of herself: a low-key, smart, confident, and independent guy who doesn’t need a chick at his side to prove he’s the man.
- She won’t want a bro who has a reputation as a player; she’s already been down that road and wants someone who will respect her.
- She’ll want someone who looks damn good and takes care of his appearance, because let’s face it — this chick could probably get most any guy.
- [There] is an important distinction between a girl who’s DTF and a slut; she’s the type of girl you’d probably want to date if you weren’t in a college setting.
- She knows what she’s doing and won’t be afraid to tell you what to do, so an open-mind is key.
- Unlike the girl who’s secretly hoping you’ll fall in love with her post-drill sesh, the DTF chick is there for her own carnal desires.
- While rare, the DTF chick does exist. Don’t expect to find a girl who’s DTF that’s still in her teens; at this age, no girl has learned to separate her emotions from her sexual desires.
College men and women who are DTD (Down to Date) are like salmon swimming upstream, tenaciously fighting the current in order to mate and spawn. They’re fighting the good fight, against considerable pressure.
Related posts:
{ 237 comments… read them below or add one }
1 2 »
Panem et circenses…
The good news is that the majority of them aren’t actually passing their genes on to the next generation…
.-= Athol Kay: Married Man Sex Life´s last blog ..The Shrek, Donkey and Princess Fiona Relationship Game =-.
I knew about much of this, and still I’m amazed. This morning I was blogging about the epidemic of depression at some universities… in particular, at SUNY Albany. Now I have an even better picture of why this is so.
I have nothing against cool and raunch and adolescent behavior– especially when performed by adolescents. But these young men are simply trying too hard, making too much of an effort to be vulgar and immature and disrespectful. Hopefully, at some point they will realize that vulgarity is not sexy and that disrespecting others eventually will come back and bite you.
They are acting and talking as though they are bullet proof, as though they can get away with anything they want. As someone who has witnessed the wages of witlessness in many cases, I can pretty much guarantee that at some point the bill is going to come due and they are not going to feel all that good about it.
One might imagine that if college girls have been willing to participate in the hook up culture, then they are acting as though they do not respect themselves and therefore deserve to be disrespected. And one is well aware of the fact that feminism proclaimed some time ago that female sexuality needed more exposure. Thus, the Hite Report and Our Bodies Ourselves.
However much virtue there was in giving people more information, there was another side, a side in which feminine sexuality was opened up to the public at large… and that has led to exploitation and abuse.
As the old saying goes, and this applies to all of the participation in what is appearing to be less a comedy and more a farce: the best laid plans of mice and men go oft awry…
.-= Stuart Schneiderman´s last blog ..Coaching Lessons: Reputation Recovery =-.
Self-righteous much?
Speaking as someone fresh out of uni, which included a stint overseas – pretty much sums up today’s college landscape. Guys don’t want relationships so they search for the elusive DTF girl.
I love the truly twisted concept of what a relationship will do – to the point that it is compared to cancer. What I’ve noticed though is that the constant hooking up does tend to wear down a guy. The reaction is different than that of a girl, but it’s there. However, because of the types of pressure on them to go out and bang every chick they can…they keep doing it. They don’t seem to put it together that a good stable relationship would probably actually lead to better/more sex. But their idea of relationships is based on bad relationships that usually have an imbalance of power and good relationships require effort and good forbid we do anything with effort.
I’m getting sick of people ridiculing women for their sexual choices. Not every woman wants to be like Taylor Swift, some would rather be Ke$ha. I think Susan has made it clear that her blog is not about judging women, but helping them fulfill their needs. The rest of you would do well to follow suit.
This stresses me out a bit for the sake of the females out there. But is more-so stresses me out for the young men. Whether we like to admit it or not, we humans behave in ways that are rewarded by our culture more often the we behave in ways “just because”. There are things that are kinda funny in that “wow — someone is actually speaking the truth” kind of way about this but once you get over the shock value, you realize that there is more to life than hedonism. Men who are rewarded for this kind of behavior as young men have a hard time making the leap into adult hood. And then you have a whole generation of stunted emotional growth.
I’m getting sick of people ridiculing men for their sexual choices, as well.
PJ, I had the exact same thought! In fact, I started writing this post as a compare and contrast to the decline of Rome. The similarity is indeed striking.
Yeah that too. Guys can get it on both ends: too much sex and he’s a disrespectful player, too little sex and he’s a loser who can’t get laid.
In all fairness, I’m not exactly respectful of the sex columnist in this article. I don’t have a problem with women who want to keep sex casual – it really is about getting your needs met. However, I take issue with this woman because her strategy isn’t sound. She swears off players to demand respect, but makes herself an easy bullseye for players. She tweeted about the number of men she’s had sex with at her small, liberal arts college and apparently it was several dozen. It’s not a role I would want for any young woman I care about, and I can’t imagine how her parents must feel about her choices.
???Is this a defense of bro mentality? My feeling about men getting laid is basically more power to them, as long as they are not deceiving anyone. The guy who wants be single all summer should be able to bang all the random chicks he wants, assuming he’s making his intentions clear. If he does that, and a girl is DTF, that’s on her, and presumably she’s happy with the deal. If she’s not, she’ll find me.
I think I’ve heard of her, she’s Greek or something.
Her name is Chlamydia something…
It’s the major flaw in the male approach to Game. They have many sexual partners but a high percentage chance that their babies will be aborted. Those that make the cut and go to term are births to party girls who probably have less interest and skill in raising the kid than a stable nuclear family would. This likely leads to poorer gene passing outcomes for the kid when grown.
Being married and actually raising kids is “dull” but from an evolutionary psychology point of view can easily outperform “a player” in terms of propelling genes into the next generations.
Game is dependant on evolutionary psych for much of it’s insights, but is naive to its failure to act towards a positive evolutionary psych outcome. From a pure evolutionary psych point of view, failure to breed is sexual failure. Many professional PUA’s are sexual failures from an evo psych point of view.
.-= Athol Kay: Married Man Sex Life´s last blog ..The Shrek, Donkey and Princess Fiona Relationship Game =-.
Ok, one word: WHAT!?
So, a DTF chick is pretty much down to fuck, but #7: “She won’t want a bro who has a reputation as a player; she’s already been down that road and wants someone who will respect her.” Yeah, because sleeping with a guy is going to make him respect her? And if a guy is just down to fuck with no strings attached, he’s not a player? Uh, most likely if he’s the “male equivalent” of you, than he’ll be banging a different chick every party…so yeah, not a player, for sure.
NONE of that made snese. ALL was contradictory. And I know of girls who fit the bill of being a DTF girl according to this columnist, and in my opinion most are just attention-loving, validation-seeking, egotistical crazies.
What a load of bullcrap, this ENTIRE post is making me fume.
.-= Mani´s last blog .. =-.
Re: that top 10 list–convivial? What happened? Did he get lazy after looking up one word in the thesaurus?
.-= synthesis´s last blog ..Easy, One-Pan Recipe =-.
How about a ton of sex with a girl he likes? A lot.
Susan, I think a lot of this is “bravado”. Yes, I know there is a “hook up culture” on campus (there’s one in the senior citizen community as well, believe it or not, LOL), HOWEVER, I think the internet allows for a lot more bravado than real life does. The media is pushing and pushing this b.s. but I think one reason they are pushing it so hard is because not all that many people are really into it. I know many college students and they are NOT INTO THIS and they think the guys like the “Bros” qouted above are assholes.
These “bros” obviously have too much time and money on their hands. Their parents SHOULD NOT be paying for college but should make them work to put themselves through. That would solve all this bullshit.
By the way, what does “chay” mean?
Yes, we are certainly witnessing the Law of Unintended Consequences in the sexual marketplace. Women need to wake up and take an honest look at the cold, hard facts. They are acting against their own best long-term interests. As long as women like Magna Carta hold enough sway to become campus personalities, men will see little reason to alter their own strategies for getting sex.
I hope you’re right about the bill eventually coming due. I fear that people, both men and women, are becoming inured to the pain and the shame that one would expect from such behavior. I have seen both men and women treated poorly, though many more women, for obvious reasons. Let’s hope karma’s a bitch, as they say.
I thought it was interesting that in the list of reasons to stay single, #2 says that one day bros will “begin to pass on pigs and settle down with a broad who is a worthy adversary.” That suggests that men view women like Magna Carta as pigs, and want to be challenged by a woman who won’t take their crap. But not just yet.
Haha, OK, take a deep breath. I agree, though. As I said, even I was shocked! How about #8: she’s the chick who can get almost any guy? Yes, for an hour! And #9: She’s the girl you’d probably want to date if you wanted to date anyone. Hello? The male columnist just called you a pig and said guys will never settle down with you. Ladies, don’t kid yourselves! These guys will use you up and kick you to the curb!
She’s trying to convince herself.
I agree that the guys’ idea of relationships is warped. This columnist obviously believes it is not fun. He talks about missing good times because you’re forced to go watch a little boy dance the ballet, and about getting stuck scrapbooking at your gf’s house and watching girl shows. That’s offering a ridiculous parody of relationships, but it’s all part of the script, the sales pitch. Come on guys, you’re only cool if you’re single!
Yeah, I noticed that too. I suspect his college papers run out of steam rather quickly too.
Being married and actually raising kids is “dull” but from an evolutionary psychology point of view can easily outperform “a player” in terms of propelling genes into the next generations.
Game is dependant on evolutionary psych for much of it’s insights, but is naive to its failure to act towards a positive evolutionary psych outcome. From a pure evolutionary psych point of view, failure to breed is sexual failure. Many professional PUA’s are sexual failures from an evo psych point of view.
Fan of your blog, but honestly what you’ve written here makes no sense whatsoever. There is no “evo psych point of view” in terms of “failure” or “success” with respect to “breeding”. Evo psych as it relates to a game is a paradigm for generating sexual attraction in females. The objective is to gain sexual access NOT necessarily procreate so the quip about “naive to its failure” really misses the mark.
I’m really just perplexed on what exactly you are trying to say here. “Outperform” connotes some competitive dynamic. I would guess many PUA types really don’t care about “propelling their genes” into the future so I think they would laugh at the notion they are being “outperformed”. If I recall correctly, you are an atheist, so it is interesting to me that you seem to derive some notion of “success or outperformance” from having reproduced, especially since I assume you believe that no part of you (your soul) will live on to see it or reunite with future descendants anyways.
.
Singlutionary, I am delighted to see you! I saw that you plan to start blogging again soon – yay!
And then you have a whole generation of stunted emotional growth.
I think this is true for both women and men. No one is getting enough practice at relating to one another over a period of time. They’re just getting really good with openers, escalating and closing the deal. Women who are DTF are getting ample attention but little respect. It seems like a recipe for dysfunctional relationships.
It’s not a foregone conclusion for everyone, though. People who swim against the current are going to be well-positioned to relate emotionally to others, because by valuing relationships they’ve learned how they work.
Someone who does not procreate may not be a “evo-psych” failure, but they are a Darwinian or evolutionary failure.
Evo-psych is new-age fluff anyway, at least the way PUAs like Eric present it.
PD, you may be right about bravado – I’m sure there is an element of that. It’s a question of the squeaky wheel – we know that many men on campus don’t have the need for an article on why they should dump their gf’s so they can hook up with random girls all summer. And there are many women not participating as well. Still, this site is getting 175,000 visitors a day after only one year, all male college students. It’s not fabricated – even if relatively few guys are successful in pulling this off, it’s clear that many would like to be.
As for chay, here is the definition (if you can call it that) provided on the site:
there is no definition and will never be an exact definition of “chay” or “chaying”. chaying is simpley a way of life that is constantly be displayed by only true bros. if your a junior in high school. play lax. listen to dave. drink brewskis and have sick flow you probs are a bro. however you my friend do not chay. what do we know of “chay” or “chaying.” we know its an action verb and at times can be used as an adjective, rarley an adverb. Chaying has been know to be used for a wide variety of things. Chaying could be runnin the pong table all night with your boy while spittin game at a sexy ass broad, then at the end of the night you and your boy pull a switcheroo and nut inside her beacuse you dont care because your a fuckin bro. Chaying could also be as simple as killin a funnel so quickly that everyones jaw drops except your boys who looks at you unimpressed cause he knows he can do it to cause he knows hes just as much as a fuckin bro as you are. So while there is no exact definition of this word or phrase just leave knowing this. The art of Chay is a lifestyle that only true hardcore bros execute to the fullest. it cant be taught, learned or imitated. it is simply a way of life. CHAY
Clearly. Which is just sad.
In evolutionary theory, what matters most is that individuals live long enough to reproduce and pass on their genes. There is very much a dynamic of sexual competion here with winners and losers. That is a prominent aspect of the overall theory.
PUA like to use the insights from evolutionary theory and human interaction to leverage themselves into more sexual experiences, but then often purposefully seek to not pass on their genes, or have the women purposely avoid conception with them, or end it if they do get pregnant. Evolutionary theory as it pertains to Sexual Selection simply doesn’t care how many women a man sleeps with, just how many offspring result from those unions.
My religious beliefs aren’t of issue here. Genes can clearly be measured in offspring, which is all evolution concerns itself with.
.-= Athol Kay: Married Man Sex Life´s last blog ..The Shrek, Donkey and Princess Fiona Relationship Game =-.
This is really insulting to those of us men who don’t have a thousand women at our beck and call. I can find plenty of “DTD” guys in college and after but they all have something in common. No woman wants us. We’re fighting the current, the current of female disinterest if not female scorn. Many of us have decided to give up because we get nothing for fighting the current.
I agree that this kind of attitude is “in your face” and has the complacent and self-satisfied tone of men who know they can get women. All I can hope is that there is a backlash against the worst offenders, and that women will rebel by demanding more from men than easy sex. To be honest, I don’t see that happening in large numbers soon, so I don’t feel hopeful that this can have a positive effect on male virgins.
I’m sure it’s also “chay” to be living out of Mom and Dad’s house all summer, the probable scenario for most recent college grads and current students.
Haha, exactly! A lifestyle that only true hardcore bros execute to the fullest – on Dad’s dime.
That’s why I said if their parents made them work to put themselves through college – this b.s. would end.
Nothing that happens anymore in this area has a positive effect on male virgins. Women aren’t going to do anything for us. Even if women try to reign in the “worst offenders” it won’t matter because they’re going after the same 10% or 20% of guys.
If we male virgins could be just left alone instead of being crapped on by those who hate us, that would be an incredible improvement. That won’t happen either. I know of no other example in history when so many men were suffering and it was completely ignored by everyone else. All I know is that we will see more Sodinis and Chos in the future. What do these people expect by alienating more and more men from every sphere of society? This isn’t going to end until civilization collapses (which is not an unlikely possibility) or with military dictatorships taking over most Western nations.
Virgin males would not want to bed the girls these assholes are bedding anyway.
Virgin men are awkward, shy and self-conscious and do better with virgin females who are the same way.
Why those two groups of people are not hooking up is beyond me.
PUA like to use the insights from evolutionary theory and human interaction to leverage themselves into more sexual experiences, but then often purposefully seek to not pass on their genes, or have the women purposely avoid conception with them, or end it if they do get pregnant.
Correct. From their view, perhaps they are seeking to enjoy a variety of pleasurable experiences while simultaneously avoiding the financial burden that often would result from said experience.
Genes can clearly be measured in offspring, which is all evolution concerns itself with.
Hard to dispute the first part so yes absolutely. Don’t know what the second means. “Evolution” doesn’t “concern” itself with anything as evolution is a description of a process, not a sentient being with concerns.
I’m still not sure what your overall point was and I suspect we are dancing around the real question that perhaps you are alluding to is whether or not a person at the individual level is a “success” or “failure” based on whether they procreate.
I mean if we define “sexual success” or Darwinian success or “evolutionary success” as having reproduced and had offspring, then I guess OK whatever, let’s use and accept that as our operating definition but I suspect you wanted to go one more step with that and overlay some type of normative judgement on top of that, and I guess that was the part I took issue with although maybe I read more into what you originally posted.
But anyways to come full circle, I suspect some PUAs have absolutely no desire whatsoever to have a child and are just looking to get laid. If we use the definition above, then yes they are “evolutionary failures” but the answer to that is SO WHAT WHO CARES, they are using the paradigm to achieve their own personal goals.
Nobody cares about maximizing the amount of genetic material they pass on. If they did, they wouldn’t bother with marriage and raising kids.
The easiest way to win the evolution game is by donating sperm for IVF. You can have dozens of kids that way and never have to pay child support. They’ll even pay you. You’d think this would a great deal for evolutionist men, but in fact there is a worldwide shortage of sperm donors.
There are no virgin females. That’s why that’s not an option.
Because most men DON’T QUALIFY as sperm donars. They have high standards who they take.
Bullshit. I know so many. And I knew so many back in college as well.
Only being with six guys that “didn’t count” does not make a woman a virgin. I graduated college long ago. Trying to pick up college girls won’t work for me. I would probably get arrested for being “that creepy old guy that shouldn’t be there”.
I’m dealing with the harsh reality of this situation. Making up crap doesn’t change that.
I just checked out brobible.com and they talk about …….. celebrities.
Hahahahahahhahahahahhaha.
nuff said.
They have standards for egg donors too, but the supply of egg donors outwieghs the demand. The reason there’s a shortage of sperm donors and a surplus of egg donors is that fertility clinics ignore market factors in favor of misandric stereotypes:
http://newsroom.ucla.edu/portal/ucla/Getting-Paid-to-Do-What-You-Already-7854.aspx
Eggs are more valuable because they are fewer. Sperm on the otherhand is in OVER abundance.
OK, I went to school so long ago we started out with faux whale oil lamps for desk lamps. No kidding. This is why I knew this gent who’s dead @ 91 in NYC Grammy winning pianist extraordinaire:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/05/17/hank-jones-dead-grammywin_n_579033.html
There’s a fantastic musical tribute ongoing by WKCR all night:
http://www.studentaffairs.columbia.edu/wkcr/
What’s this got to do with anything? They did an interview with Hank Jones on NPR, and replayed it today/[Monday] on ATC last night. How do you get to be 91? To accompany Marilyn Monroe when she sang Happy Birthday to JFK? To play with nearly every Jazz great in your long 70+ year career? It was simple. Lots of clean healthy living, avoiding ‘trouble’, staying clean (of drug or drinking habits) and working hard. Nothing too complicated. And yet literally he’s the last of the breed of great Jazzmen, mainly because his erstwhile contemporaries mainly could not. Keep sober. Keep working. Keep healthy, while indulging in unhealthy habits.
And we hate to say it, despite how attractive it might seem? Even right up close or from a comfortable hazy distance (whatever your preference)? The DTF gals, the lovely languid easy skinny skanks? They’re just mostly bad habits. Even for a summer or a semester. Disease vectors or worse. Sure a few are simply ‘fun time gals’, but many of them are just immature or crazy as hell. And you’ll soon come to regret your involvement, no matter how brief & transitory. All for what? A short dip in a dark unknown pool? Are we all mad?
SS is right here, this is all nothing short of deep down crazy. No matter how ‘attractively’ packaged, described or indulged. By anyone for any real length of time. It’s just madness to be constantly on the hunt for some SD or OPP to plunder or indulge. Week after week, month after month, year in & year out. That’s the very definition of chaos & anarchy or close to the conditions that will give rise to same across a broad spectrum of society.
It’s just stunning to see in print or actually believe it’s being taken half seriously by anyone. It’s a type & species of p0rn. Nothing more & nothing less. Mindless carnal entertainment that’s in no way, shape, manner or form much use to anyone. And as I’ve said about much of mass entertainment (TV, ‘Romance novels’, etc) to many an older lady, ‘I’ll just take my p0rn straight up, thank you very much’! Fantasy should not even be this idiotically degrading & self defeating. And renaming her errant ‘twats’ the Magna Carter? As in one of the most important legal document in world history? Meets the common mindless miasma of this shameless slut? The mind boggles, then screams & weeps for us all. Even if she later became a lawyer she could not have disgraced herself further. Really. Sad & pathetic. Cheers, ‘VJ’
Sounds about right. A young man should be out having a good time. If only he could do it without ruining the girls who will be his marriage prospects in a few years. Someone needs to find a way to outsource this to foreign girls…
Aha. No surprises here. It’s all about boys club. And the girls wanting to join the boys club – the DTF gals of the this world. You know they are the good sports who tag along with the “boys” and are just down for “fun” with no strings attached. They’ve even been with all the boys because they are just so chilled and down for anything. Even losing their moral dignity doesn’t phase them in the slightest. Because they are Down-To-Fuck girls!
I don’t care what any girl in college says (unless you are completely bat-shit crazy of course) having sex with someone that you aren’t in a committed relationship with can be a numbing and emotionless endeavor. Yes you can detach and learn to control your feelings and emotions to become that DTF girl but it’s not exactly a pleasant experience. Because if they could any girl would much rather be in a loving committed relationship than be some guys stress “relief”. You can want to be single for the right reasons – because you at the present point can’t find someone worthy enough to be in a relationship with or personal reasons but staying single so you can play the field as a girl unfortunately sooner or later you will get a rep. Hard fact but it’s true. Girls that are DTF are just sluts under a new company name.
University/College for most of us is described perfectly within this article. It is a reality that most of 2010 students deal with on a daily basis. You may think that it is all fabricated by the media but this does exist exactly how it is described. It’s an awful fact of growing up in this culture. Trying to get out of the hook-up culture is like being a reformed junkie. There is just temptation everywhere! You can’t put an old head on young shoulders as the saying goes and most of us young adults have to figure it all out for ourselves in order for it to sink in but trying to become “clean” within this culture is a daily struggle. Sometimes it is just easier and at the time instantly gratifying in being someone’s DTF girl – because of our culture and generation. We are used to connivence. Hooking up is like going through the drive through – greasy, fattening, and instantly gratifying but it’s ok for the instant fix for the short term. However having a committed relationship is like slow cooking – fresh, healthy and preparation time can be lengthy but in the long term it’s way more worth it.
GudEnuf, that’s a fascinating article you linked to! I don’t know much about donating either eggs or sperm, but I definitely had made assumptions that were skewered by that article. First of all, I had no idea that men have to have a consistently high sperm count to qualify, so that their samples can withstand freezing.
What I found most interesting was that women donors are profusely thanked for “giving the gift of life,” often receiving thank you notes from the couple using the egg. They guiltily rationalize the $5,000 payment. Men are recruited as if sperm donation is an easy way to make a few bucks – “You’re doing it anyway, why not get paid for it?” was the slogan of one marketing campaign.
PD is right, this is ludicrous. There are actually quite a few regular women commenters on this blog who have openly shared that they are virgins. I don’t know why you and Michael keep saying this, or where you get your information, but you need to stop. It seems to play a key role in your world view, and it’s just wrong.
Haha, I’m happy our own resident bro weighed in here. You should check out the site – it’s a little young for you, but quite amusing in its way.
VJ, I agree, SS nails it. He always does. (I always appreciate his psychoanalytical insight into human behavior.)
It is indeed a form of porn – very titillating. The other thing is that some of the writing is quite clever. The guy columnist is funny – I laughed at his analogy to spending one’s childhood in an orphanage, for example. I find that laughter diffuses tension, so what is really quite shocking becomes less so when we laugh about it. And the fact that it’s hilarious makes it far more likely that you’ll run out and tell a friend about this great new site you found.
As for Magna Carta, I don’t get it. I’ve seen her photo – she quite attractive. Apparently went to Choate and is now at Middlebury. She has a long history of publishing under her own name, which is why I used it. You were right on about law school – I’ve heard she’s going in the fall. But what employer will not google her name and discover her history? She’s going to have to work as legal counsel for Penthouse at this rate.
Yes you can detach and learn to control your feelings and emotions to become that DTF girl but it’s not exactly a pleasant experience.
For 99% of women, I believe this is true. It’s an exercise in repression. I really appreciate your comment here – very honest. It’s a great field report. I also like your metaphor – perfect!
You didn’t read the article did you?
I agree with Sasha. DTF just sounds like a rationalization for irresponsible, impulsive behavior. Girls who love the male attention and treat it like a drug. They say they’re not needy but that’s only because they’ve got a steady supply- take away that supply and I wonder how “chill” they’d be?
Do I blame them? It’s hard not to be jealous of it as a guy. Most of the DTF types I run across just come across as totally confused about who they are and what they want. I think guys feel two things for these girls- attracted as a result of the girls’ confidence and overt sexuality and disdain for giving it up so easily. I’m speaking from experience BTW. I can see how it’d be tough for these girls- they don’t get that “becoming one of the guys” actually causes guys to lose respect for them in the long run.
There are no virgin females. That’s why that’s not an option.
I actually kind of agree with him there. I don’t know one girl who’s a virgin. The lowest “number” I can think of out of all my female friends and acquaintances is 4, the highest somewhere up in the 50′s. Although I don’t think I know any male virgins either…their counts are generally much lower though. I’m not saying they’re not around, they’re just not very common anymore. Also, don’t immediately assume that the fat librarian with glasses isn’t taken. For all you know W&N could be a 7-8 in looks and just lack Game and have rough luck with women.
As for the Bros…honestly, what do you expect? They’re there to capitalize on the DTF chicks. The two types reinforce each other’s existences.
Ask ten girls out on one night, get rejected by all of them.
The next night do the same – only ask out the hottest girls in the room, married or not. You’ll get rejected by all of them.
Do this weekly, and after two months, I guarantee you will have the confidence to pursue and get any girl you want.
You really need to get out more and develop a thick skin.
Seems that Susan as well as the others here are letting the “Bros” off easier than the “DTFs”. I found DTF’s comments to be less offensive than Bro’s. At least she is not telling people that having a a boyfriend or girlfriend is akin to cancer.
I will agree that the bros and DTF girls reinforce each other. I think there are a lot more bros than girls like Magna Carta, which means that bros often resort to pumping and dumping girls who they know would like a relationship. They find a nice freshman girl, turn on the charm, make the conquest, and see ya never.
You’re right, I am harder on DTF. I think it’s because I think she’s full of shit. I think the bro article is offensive and rude. I wouldn’t go near a guy who thought that way. And I’m sure that Waffles McButterface is more than capable of manipulating a girl into sex by pretending to care about her as a person. But in this particular example, as heinous as he is, he’s honest. He is saying, “This is how I roll.” Any woman who hangs out with him would do well to know what he’s up to before having sex with him, and if she doesn’t do her due diligence, she has only herself to blame. This guy walks around covered with red flags, and the women who try to date him are foolish and self-destructive.
I agree with Sox and Sasha about DTF – she’s starved for male attention, and has deliberately made herself a sex celebrity, first on her college campus, and now on a popular website. She has reportedly slept with every varsity athlete at her college, and claims to love, love, love it! Why does she love it? How many times has she gotten off with one of these guys? By announcing that she is unconditionally DTF, she’s saying, “Don’t waste your time making an effort with me. I’m just dying to add another notch to my bedpost, no other services required.” And I’m not buying it. My guess is that she is a very unhappy young woman, and she’s headed for a bad fall. If nothing else, she’s going to be embarrassed and humiliated when she is outed in law school, her job, whatever.
The other thing that gets me angry is that women like DTF are making it much worse for women who DO want a relationship. As long as she’s willing to service any guy who asks, they have little incentive to pursue a committed relationship with anyone else.
These bros sound just awful, but the truth is that in another era they would have probably behaved like decent and respectful young men. The sexual marketplace allows and encourages them to indulge the basest parts of their nature.
But in this particular example, as heinous as he is, he’s honest. He is saying, “This is how I roll.”
…………………….
So? DTF is saying the same thing, so why come down harder on her? So she’s starving for male attention and sex. Bros are starving for female attention and sex.
These two groups of people DESERVE each other, both for one night stands AND for marriage later on in their 30s when they decide to settle down.
Vincent Ignatius’s comment; “Sounds about right. A young man should be out having a good time. If only he could do it without ruining the girls who will be his marriage prospects in a few years. Someone needs to find a way to outsource this to foreign girls…”…………….
….Is BULLSHIT!
These dudes deserve THESE EXACT SAME GIRLS as marriage prospects. There’s no such thing as pumping and dumping women like you when you’re young, and then settling down to take advantage of a nice beta wife when you are older.
As far as “outsourcing” – there’s always foreign prostitutes. But the DTFs will just find other guys to pump and dump, so when they come back to the USA, these Bros will STILL be marrying DTFs – as is their just karma.
I’d rather go to dinner and a movie with a DTF than a Bro. Somehow I think the conversation would be more engaging.
These dudes deserve THESE EXACT SAME GIRLS as marriage prospects. There’s no such thing as pumping and dumping women like you when you’re young, and then settling down to take advantage of a nice beta wife when you are older.
I love it! This is brilliant! Turnabout is fair play. How many times have you heard guys with Game saying this?
The problem is that when these bros start to “pass on the pigs” to seek a “worthy adversary” it’s may be a lot harder to spot them. Get them out of college, put them in a suit and send them to the office, and they start to look like Little League coaches. Hopefully, their past will show through somehow, because you’re right – they deserve someone whose genitals are as well used as their own. The naricissism of these bros would be the perfect match for the self-loathing of the DTF women.
As for Vincent Ignatius, I’m convinced he’s a gag, and that he loves writing stuff to get a rise out of everybody. If he’s for real, he’s got a soft spot for emotionally challenged women, to put it mildly.
You guys are ignoring the dominant paradigm and the hated “double-standard”. Men, seeing women as the gatekeepers, value a woman who hasn’t put out for every varsity athlete on campus. Women are (within reason) attracted to men who other women have wanted. What’s that analogy? A key that opens any door is valuable. A door that opens with any key is busted.
Besides, just because the Bros are looking for the hookups, who says they’re getting them? You can be damned sure that the DTFs of the world are getting theirs.
As long as that paradigm exists, DTF types are only shooting themselves in the feet for whenever they settle down and the topic of the past (god forbid) ever comes up. I don’t think many guys like the idea of their girl having slept with the whole varsity population in college. The bros will be hitting their peak in their 30s and looking 8-10 years younger while the DTFs whose peak is long past will be wondering why it’s so hard to find someone their age to settle down with.
Why is it that the most secure guys usually have the most women, while some of the most insecure girls have the most men? It seems like the DTF mentality is just a way to cover up that blatant insecurity.
Sox, I agree with you here except that I believe “within reason” is the key. While it’s true that we can’t know how successful these guys are at getting laid, the truth is we know are trying to have sex without reason. Increasingly, women are rejecting that. I’ve written about the reverse double standard for men – women see them as physically “dirty” and emotionally numbed after a lot of hookups. What’s the magic number? Depends, just like with guys. The point is, there is such a thing as too much social proof, because women know that it means guys have chosen to be with a lot of blatantly insecure women rather than have a real connection with someone with healthy emotions.
Hi there – I’m living proof of a female virgin who made it through college with my v-card still in hand. And I have a number of friends (male and female) who are also virgins. In fact I know a number of people who believe in staying a virgin until they’re married and follow through. Often they have a strong religious belief system, but I know one girl who is agnositc but chose that path because it’s what worked for her.
So this sort of claim is completely baseless.
I feel like I might end up making it my mission to dispel the idea that there are no female virgins.
Hi – I am a 22 year old, recent university graduate, female virgin. We do exist. However, most generally aren’t going to parade it about unless it’s about some chastity/abstinence rally thing. Some do it for religious reasons and wait until they’re married. Others – like myself – have chosen to wait for a guy we feel respects us and that we can trust and feel comfortable with. I used to be a strong believer in the waiting until marriage thing because I was raised Catholic. However, now it will really depend on comfort/respect/trust levels in the relationship.
So there’s my take anyway. And I know I’m not the only one. Yes – often it seems like we are few and far between but we do exist. There are those who will do everything but actual sex – then there are those of us who actually keep everything in our pants.
“Get them out of college, put them in a suit and send them to the office, and they start to look like Little League coaches.”
Get the DTF girls out of college, put them in a dress-suit, send them to the office or elementary school as a teacher, and they start to look like June Cleaver.
Karma’s a bitch, bros. Literally.
“Guiltily rationalize?” I don’t understand this? It is painful and somewhat dangerous to the woman. That article does not tell the extent of the pain and danger to the woman. I am saying this not from a women’s rights or men’s rights viewpoint. I am trying to approach this from a neutral viewpoint. If it were painful or dangerous to the man on anywhere near the scale it is to the woman I would acknowledge that. That article does not tell nearly the extent of pain and danger to the woman. I think egg donors should be paid more, because of the pain and danger involved.
“I think there are a lot more bros than girls like Magna Carta, which means that bros often resort to pumping and dumping girls who they know would like a relationship.”
I totally agree.
“There’s no such thing as pumping and dumping women like you when you’re young, and then settling down to take advantage of a nice beta wife when you are older.”
Something tells me he will be cheating on that nice beta wife in short order.
Again, I’ll acknowledge that I have little knowledge of fertility treatments and sperm/egg donation. The article was from UCLA though – it seemed legit. I thought the egg was removed surgically, which is apparently not the case. The article does mention 6 weeks of hormone treatments, which sounds pretty bad.
The reason I said “guiltily” is that the female egg donor is apparently treated as a saintly and generous donor giving a gift, when in reality, she is participating in an economic transaction. Presumably, she is compensated adequately for her services – hence the overabundance of registered egg donors. I think the article addresses the question of motives, when the truth is that both men and women stand to benefit according to market conditions, for better or worse.
I have never known a single woman who claimed that sex with someone didn’t count, so she was still a virgin. Of course, it depends on how one defines losing virginity.
Thank you, thank you for sharing. Honestly, it’s ridiculous that you even have to stand up and say “We exist! We are real! Some of us have standards!”
Desi eggs/sperm are worth more because of Desi culture and IQ. Nonetheless, eggs take a longer time to harvest so of course they are worth more than sperm. Guys just need to get over it. They are getting paid to jerk off so I don’t see where their complaint lies.
Sheeeesh, men! Give ‘em inch, and they don’t put it where it counts.
PD:
1. I really, really hate it when you change your name all the time. I know you, but not everyone does. If you want to be taken seriously, please use the same name, and don’t tell me you have ADD, I’m not buying that excuse.
2. Your claim that Desi eggs are superior is racist.
3. You still haven’t responded to GudEnuf re the UCLA article he linked to. Please don’t say anything more until you can address the facts presented in that piece.
De-pressing. Capital D. Capital Pressing.
Alternate article title:
12 Ways to Spot Your Volunteer Prostitute for the Night
I think this type of woman actually must hate other women because those who follow her advice will ruin themselves and those who don’t will just feel pressured, confused, and without options. Her need to justify herself and her actions and get the approval of nasty mansluts is staggering.
.-= grerp´s last blog ..Piece of Advice #35: Laugh at yourself first =-.
I read the UCLA article and the bottom line is that men are being paid for doing what they do anyway, and eggs take a longer and more involved process to harvest, even if it’s not QUITE AS involved as before and even if the male process is SLIGHTLY MORE involved than we once thought it was.
If the article was trying to make the case that men should be paid as much as women for this, it did a poor job.
OK, I’ll stick with Poly Desi.
Yeah, I had no idea virgins are like unicorns apparently.
Yeah, this is college in a nutshell. Interestingly enough, at my school DTF types are less common(girls are less willing to go wild the way they are at other schools) but at the same time they don’t seem to orient themselves towards relationships.
I personally came here sort of thinking that my school’s strong academic profile would make it easier to find a relationship. In reality, the social scene here is really just a watered down version of the crazy environment you see embodied on that brobible site.
The idea I’ve gotten from guys more experienced in the dating scene here than I is that hooking up is preferred here over dating(as it is at every other major college/university it seems) even though girls are not really DTF.
Makes it kind of a no win for a beta. Succeed in becoming more alpha, you wont get too far. Stay the way you are…you wont get anywhere.
Honestly, college kind of blows. Stuart was right about the whole depression thing he found at SUNY Albany(which is like 15 minutes from my old high school btw) and it might apply to quite a few schools and students. If you’re not getting wasted every weekend, hooking up, “broing out”, etc, etc…it just seems more likely that the whole experience will suck.
You miss out socially(everyone is wasted, you aren’t) and you miss out romantically(traditional dating as a means of meeting a girl really is dead here). You end up just swimming upstream like Susan said, and at the end of the day you’re just tired as opposed to happy and satisfied. I already want to graduate and start working-I’m sick of swimming.
Speaking of loose women, that Sex and the City 2 banner to the right of the blog with Carrie Bradshaw strutting front and center has shown serious potential to keep me frightened and awake until morning. God help us.
1. Susan, I thought about this and I have to say that I’m confused by your analysis. On one hand you appear to despise the attitude of the Bro writer, on the other you say he is better than DTF girl because at least he’s “integrous”, or has “integrity”… because he is not presenting himself as something he is not. Well, neither is DTF girl. She’s spelling it all out as well. It seems you approve you “approve” the front and center declarations of guys like Bros because at least women will know what they’re getting into. Then why not also approve DTF’s front and center cyber approach that let’s guys know what they are getting into if they sleep with her?
Also, this concept of “integrity” is very shallow in my opinion. By that logic a seriel killer can also be deemed “integrous” as long as he or she does not mislead victims but informs them ahead of time as to what will happen.
This is what happens in a world where any talk of “morals” is deemed politically incorrect and offensive. We get empty words like “integrity” that really don’t mean anything and at the same time could mean EVERYTHING.
2. Athlone McGinnis:
I just don’t get it. Surely not EVERYONE is getting wasted and hooking up every weekend on your campus. Why don’t you just hang out with the students who AREN’T doing that?
Would the Bro role be a role for any young man you care about? What do you think THEIR parents think about their irresponsible drinking and sexing????
I sense a double standard here.
Athlone McGinnis, I feel your pain. Unless you are hooking up, getting wasted every week and essentially give in to peer pressure you are not going to have “fun” at college.
And Poly Desi yes everyone is getting wasted and hooking up. If your not your not gonna fit into any crowd. Being young adults we don’t like to feel like we don’t fit in and are an outcast which unfortunately means doing what everyone else is doing. Sorry if you think that we seem over dramatise the situation but it’s just how it is.
Sorry, if it’s an international Uni, Sasha, there will be plenty of international students not getting drunk and hooking up – the smart Asian and conservative Desi/Arab crowd. Moreover if there is even ONE religious club on campus, they won’t be getting drunk and hooking up either.
I’m watching Fatal Attraction right now. Bottomline: philandering husband got what he deserved. I similarly hope that some serious psycho-bitches bring these “bros” down. And I know for certain they’ll be marrying women who slept with more men than they have women. Lady players always get more play than male wannabe PUAs.
And another thing: to be a bonafide “bro”, you gotta have a fro.
I’m just not buying that these dudes get much play, nonetheless they deserve to burn just for that website alone.
Is fitting in really that much of an issue? As a person who doesn’t party at all, and has never participated in these “fun” events at college I don’t feel all that sad. I have fun my own way with a close knit group of friends, without that crazy haze of partying and hooking up. I suppose I am sort of an outcast, but in college there are so many people that everyone will have their specific group.
The only thing I’m worried about is finding a suitable woman who shares the same values as mine.
I apologize in advance if my post sounds a bit off. I’m not that good at writing, and I generally write better if I’m answering direct questions rather than posting about how I feel in response.
Ehh, even then the international students usually keep to themselves. You’ll have to work at a relationship if you want to get in with international students.
LOL! Women know what’s up – considering a third of them graduate from college virgins. It’s the guys who don’t get it – I think this is a case of assuming that everyone else has it better than you do. Male virgins believe that all the females have already been tapped by the bros, and it just isn’t so.
I think the simple fact of the matter is a lot of people who are in a similar situation to myself don’t want to talk about it at all because they are worried they’re going to be ridiculed. They know that if they keep their mouth shut everyone will just assume they’ve done it at least once.
Besides there’s those people (male and female) who have only had sex within some kind of relationship context as well. That’s what a lot of people assume is my situation I’ve discovered until I say something different, simply because they know I’m not someone who is into hooking up. They can’t imagine that someone my age hasn’t had sex so the idea isn’t even something that enters their head.
Some international students actually tend to be even crazier than the more local students. Why? Well because suddenly it’s like they’re on vacation! This is particularly true for a university who has a large exchange student population. I lived with a group of exchange students during my year abroad who took it too a whole new level with the partying every night. I ended up isolated because I would ask them to stop on a Monday night so I could sleep because I had class the next morning.
Additionally, the following year back at my home university in Canada I shared an apartment with a girl from Germany, so once again I saw a lot of the exchange students. My university also happened to have a very high international population anyway beyond just exchange students. They party hard with each other.
Now there are exceptions. I was one of them as an exchange student. While I did party pretty hard on my year abroad – I ended up partying with the locals more than other exchange students because they were more fun – I wasn’t hooking up. Also I’m the type who can go to a party and not drink an excessive amount but still have a fun time. I tend to leave a bit earlier than others as a result because when it gets really sloppy I get a bit bored so I go home to bed.
I think it’s pretty clear from my posts that I would certainly not approve of any young man assuming the Bro attitude. As for their parents, most remain blissfully and willfully ignorant, I suspect. There is a double standard, though, which reflects the sexual double standard. That will never go away, no matter how much casual sex women have. I’d be very surprised if Magna Carta’s parents know about her column, though they may find out at some point. I can only imagine they would be heartbroken. A bro’s parents, especially his mother, might be horrified, but probably not heartbroken. And his dad might even be proud.
Yes, I have had women report that they lie about their number to guys – increasing it – so as not to reveal their inexperience.
I agree, it’s staggering and painful to witness. You make an interesting point about her hating other women – obviously she has raised the stakes considerably in female intrasexual competition. I wonder whether she has any women friends. I suspect that any female relationships she has must be with fellow DTFers – the only women who won’t judge. Women judge other women for promiscuity, and that has not changed even as the culture has.
You can always try to find a middle ground that satisfies you. That’s what I did in terms of the social life. I went out and partied, but very rarely do I have more than about 2 drinks in a night. Yeah I take some flak for it but I always just tell whoever is bugging me to fuck off. I don’t need a lot of alcohol to keep me happy. Granted, when everyone else is getting super sloppy I end up bored so I’ll peace out early. I suppose it’s also a bit different for girls – we aren’t under quite the same sort of pressure as the guys. But some of my guy friends will often do the same thing. You just need to be comfortable in your decision and not let other people bug you about it.
The lack of traditional dating…it sucks. A lot. Speaking as a girl though – and I can’t be the only one with this feeling – I prefer if the guy makes the first move. It’s traditional. It seems “right” and everyone wants the other person to make the first move because they’re scared of rejection. Every so often – usually after a drink or two – I get gutsy enough to say something but it’s a truly terrifying experience.
I understand it’s tiring – lord knows I’ve dealt with it for 5 years and I’m a bit relieved to be finished with it. But with hindsight…I regret that I didn’t make just a bit more of an effort.
I hear you. I guess the guys who are “successful” in college, i.e., broing out, are pleased as can be, but I know for a fact that a lot of the women, even the ones participating, are getting depressed. Many young women on campuses seek counseling and cite the social scene as the reason.
LOL! She is kind of scary looking – I just remarked to someone that she looks like her next role should be trying to cook and eat Hansel and Gretel.
Integrity is a hard word to define, but it is not necessarily a virtue. It really means staying entirely true to yourself. By that standard, a serial killer can indeed have integrity. I question whether DTF has integrity – if she is who she says she is, she’s the first woman I’ve ever come across who is aggressively DTF a large number of men with zero strings. Also, she’s obviously deceiving herself – thinking she’s “ideal girlfriend” material and that she can “get any guy.” It’s sad, really. She needs to wake up – she’s definitely more of a train wreck than the Bro. That’s not a defense of Bro – it’s just an observation about who is more likely to wind up miserable. On the other hand, you could argue that they’ll both wind up equally damaged in terms of their ability to sustain a healthy relationship.
Your post doesn’t sound off at all. It’s good to hear, because you have clearly opted out of the craziness and feel fine about it. And I appreciate your goal to find a compatible woman. It takes courage to do it your way, and disregard cultural and peer pressure.
PD, the Arab crowd doesn’t want any non-Arab friends, that’s why they’re self-segregating in the first place. Same with every race, ethnicity and religion on campus. A non-Jew hanging out at Hillel? Just plain weird! You’ve suggested that before to Athlone, and it’s pure nonsense. No college kid wants to go find a group where they’re the token.
When I was at Wharton, about 50 of the male students were Indian. They were the most sexually aggressive men I have ever encountered. They asked me at every single party to go have sex with them. They wouldn’t take no for an answer, wanting to spend the whole evening debating my refusal. I once asked them why they were so obnoxious about it. They said that before they went home to arranged marriages, they wanted to bang as many American sluts as possible. Charming. To my knowledge, not a single one of them got laid in two years.
It’s not true Susan that Arabs only want Arab friends. And if Althone has to “work hard” to “fit in” with the alcoholics and sluts anyway, there is no reason to not work just as hard to fit in with people more in line with his ethics.
Heck, he could hang out with the geeky guys who AREN’T getting laid and play video games or something. I just read a lot of excuses in his comments.
As far as Desi guys being aggressive and weird as hell – YEP, that’s because in their countries they’ve never seen women act so “free” and so they assume, with the help of the media, that all American women are “open”. It’s the reputation that we have. And it could be triggered by anything. In India even in Universities, the sexes more or less gender segregate themselves socially. Over here they see women openly laughing and being free with male friends, drinking with them, staying over, etc, and they ASSUME a sexual relationship is involved and they think, “why not me?”
And even if a woman is sleeping with 10 men on campus that does not mean she is going to sleep with 100 men on campus or with the Desi men on campus. LOL. They think that if a woman CHOOSES to have sex with one guy that she will choose to have sex with all, or something. They are desperate virgins who cannot read American style social cues.
Not all of them are like this – but enough to make it an issue.
There are several websites dedicated to the Desi man who “dates” the non-Desi woman, stringing her along, allowing her to fall in love with him, only to dump her in the end for a woman from his culture who was handpicked for him by his mother.
American women: BEWARE
Nonetheless, these guys all tend to be awkward, geeky, innocent, naive and they are definetly NOT Bros. So if you can manage to get past all that and make friends with one, it can be a rewarding friendship and there won’t be pressure to drink or do drugs.
On the otherhand many Desis are married and even have babies while in University. I often wonder what they think of this “American social scene” or how they fit in.
Oh, I used to be an aspiring DTF girl. I thought I can do it – have sex outside of relationships. No partying or alcohol was involved, neither lots of guys. But there was this one guy whom I liked very much and I know he liked me too. But we wanted very different things, so relationship was not an option, age difference played a role there. He was hot and just a bit dangerous. And he said something along the lines that why don’t we express our love physically. And I fell for it. So we had sex a few times. And I was miserable and felt used. I was confused about why I was feeling so bad when seemingly everything was fine. He had said he loved me after all, it’s not like I was having sex with someone who didn’t care about me. But something was lacking, I didn’t feel loved enough.
Anyway, now I’m inclined to blame feminism which tells women that they can have sex just for the sake of it. And I think Magna Carta is another victim of this idea. She’s probably unhappy but too confused to understand what’s wrong. Because it seems that other women can pull off the sex without commitment and be fine with it, when a woman feels unhappy doing so, she thinks that she must be doing it wrong, rather than concluding that the behaviour itself is causing the unhappiness. I know that’s how I felt. The general starting point is that you have to have sex, and if sex is making you unhapy then you’re doing it wrong. Not having sex (either at all or outside of relationships) is not an obvious option.
I never got how someone can “fall in love” after just having sex with someone. It doesn’t make sense to me. The euphoric feeling is just oxytocin doing it’s thing. Wait it out, it will pass. Save your emotions for when you enter into a relationship FIRST.
How confusing to be told that you are loved, that a relationship isn’t happening, and that sex is an expression of what the two of you have. No wonder you felt that something was off. There was love but no commitment, if that’s possible. Or maybe you wondered about his sincerity?
I agree that women have been sold a bill of goods. You can and should have sex like a man. When it doesn’t feel great, we figure we’re sexually dysfunctional in some way, and that only makes us feel worse. To be honest, I never had a casual sexual encounter with someone I didn’t care about that was any good at all. Seriously, I might as well have been blowing up a bicycle tire.
“How confusing to be told that you are loved, that a relationship isn’t happening, and that sex is an expression of what the two of you have. No wonder you felt that something was off. There was love but no commitment, if that’s possible. ”
I hear this all the time. Spouses who want to divorce their partners or who are already divorced will say, “I love him but I’m not IN LOVE with him”.
Love is like “integrity” here…….. it could mean absolutely anything, or nothing at all even.
Again, I channel Ms. Monroe. Her advice stands the test of time.
I believe he was sincere, maybe “love” isn’t the correct word, but he definitely cared about me and I cared about him. The timing was really awful though – he had just got out of a serious relationship. And I think after it happened he held it against me that I had agreed to have sex with him under these conditions. This was even more confusing – you want me to have sex with you, say it’s an expression of love, but if I do then I’m “too easy”?! He never said it but that’s the impression I got. My reaction to all this was less than graceful, which eventually drove him away.
What I find strange is that I’ve had several different men tell me that they love me “in their own special way”, whatever that means. It happens when we have gotten to know each other pretty well but not become fully sexual yet, neither made any commitment. And this is when I give in, and have sex with them, which tends to ruin it all. I think if I’d hold out just a little bit longer and actually get them to commit to me first, then it could turn into a great relationship. That’s what I’m going to do next time.
This series of bitter lamentations from WhiteandNerdy is really troubling. The victim-blaming aside regarding the VT tragedy is a particularly unfortunate argument, in my opinion.
Unfortunately, being polite and making small talk with the W&N-type can be just as compromising to one’s safety as being openly hostile. Social behavior, even something as basic as table manners, helps to identify an individual as a foreigner or being in some way unhealthy. I believe that this blog has already discussed the significance of preselection in attractiveness.
Being a post-college male virgin is not a problem. But — particularly if by necessity rather than choice — it is a starched red flag symptom that there is a problem. Probably lots of them.
I am not hostile to the nice boy who decided not to do the dirty for Jesus reasons. Plenty of girls still want to go out with him.
But the socially awkward undateables I’ve occasionally been foolish enough to treat with common courtesy? Those are the ones who later called and berated me *at work* for not wanting to go out, or called a hundred times late at night — pausing just long enough to leave an emotional roller coaster of voicemail — or who leave passive aggressive notes on my car? Lets just say, I’ve about outgrown sympathy or suggestions.
You don’t have to be a “bro” to be an ass.
THANKYOU, Smitten. Someone had to say it.
Way to make assumptions about W&N. Clearly every guy who has trouble getting laid has all of those qualities that you mentioned above.
I’m not saying those guys don’t exist. They do, and I’d be annoyed by them if I were you too.
There are, believe it or not, a lot of guys who have a hard time who are actually normal. It’s just easier for women to assume they’re all creepy or dysfunctional so they don’t have to feel guilty, or admit the truth about the types of guys they actually go for.
Also let me add the I have no sympathy for the W&N’s out there that complain with no effort or intention to change their situation. Get some game.
I think I got a bit carried away. What I really wanted to say is that I don’t think it’s fair to judge Magna Carta harsher than the Bros. She is just trying to be cool and fit in, same as the Bros. However, she is more likely to incur higher costs for it. I think she deserves sympathy and needs someone wise and friendly to talk to her.
I bet within 5-10 years she’ll be married. Don’t worry, these girls do alright for themselves. It’s not the 1950s anymore.
I’ve found that as well – a lot of the men from cultures in that area of the world tend to be overly sexually aggressive. I’ve also found that Asians can end up going just as crazy as whites – especially if they’re away from their overbearing parents. They end up just doing it within their own ethnic group a lot of the time. Although there were some who lived in my dorm when I was overseas that mingled into the rest of the hook-up culture.
Seriously, it’s ridiculous that you keep trotting out MM for life advice when she killed herself!
That sounds like a good strategy. Let me know how it goes!
Hmmm, would you know of any particular blogger who might lend a sympathetic ear and wise counsel?
You assume that being married is her primary goal. How about just getting through the next five years with self-esteem intact? Or the ability to establish and sustain a relationship?
I agree Sox.
However, overt bitterness towards and entire gender? That’s something that unsettles me. And I’ve run into girls feeling the same way about guys. (The rants I have heard that contain so much hatred…lord almighty.) You cannot let bad experiences – no matter how many you’ve had – take over your perception of an entire group of people.
There are all sorts of people who just find it difficult to interact because they’re shy/quiet/awkward/uncomfortable/etc. I am inclined to be sympathetic to those in those situations, but my sympathy becomes limited when I hear phrases like “I’ve given up.” Of course no one is going to be interested in you if you’re not even interested in making an effort. Unfortunately things like this require effort and no one wants to be with someone who is bitter and angry at the world. Does that sound like fun at all? It’s harsh, but true. People are more likely to be interested in people who are happy.
And to W&N – I apologize for any offense. I do hope though that you will meet someone who can change your opinion of women. It’s unfortunate that you’ve had such negative experiences (I looked at the blog you had linked in a previous comment on another entry so I have an idea of what some of those experiences are.) However, I hope that you can find a way of moving past those bad experience and that you meet some women who are not better examples of human decency.
I believe I do.
I think most of us can sympathize with anyone who wants a relationship OR sex and isn’t getting it. I don’t know W&N, but he is angry and resentful, that much is clear from his comments and his own blog. I’m not saying that his anger is not justified – I have no way of knowing.
However, in general people are uncomfortable when strangers start making emotional statements about their intimate personal lives. Being online obviously provides anonymity, but for those of us who are listening, and trying hard to be good listeners, these kinds of disclosures are really quite discomfiting. I understand where Smitten is coming from.
During the year + that I’ve been writing HUS, there have been about 4-6 really, really bitter and angry male virgins, and I have received numerous emails complaining about their hostility. It’s a problem for me – I don’t like banning people, and have only done it when people have been rude or cruel.
I also understand what Sox is saying, and I agree that we shouldn’t rush to judgment. However, the truth is that women will recoil when men complain with this kind of bitterness and tenacity. Furthermore, any guy who expresses anger and predicts more Sodinis scares me. I’ll reserve the right to delete such comments or ban the people making them.
Sox, you might be right. And I think I agree with you — I’m NOT talking about the uncharismatic Everyman with guy friends and little game.
I’m saying stay out of completely uncharted territory. The risk outweighs the reward. Since W&N raised the name Cho, I’m going to venture a very unpopular opinion: It is unsafe to be the nice girl naively befriending the friendless on the off chance that there’s a good guy inside.
That may sound simplistic or paranoid, but having been on the receiving end of the obsessive attention of two casual acquaintances, I don’t think it’s that rare anymore. W&N, in fact, suggested that violence from men who are “crapped on” is just beginning.
Not that a chaying, lax playing, beer guzzler won’t accidentally kill a girl he was just trying to knock around a little bit.
But a man with options is, yes, initially more attractive and, secondly, better able to rebound from rejection at any stage of the hookup.
Oh, and while I agree with some of your points and suspect we’re actually on the same page, it’s hardly fair to take me to task for making a comment — based on unfortunate experience — and then suggest women are simply trying to silence their collective guilty conscience for not hopping into bed with the guy who sits alone and showers seldom. It may have been a while, but I dated the valedictorian, the man who owned his own bowling ball, and even had a fling with the college marching band.
“It is unsafe to be the nice girl naively befriending the friendless on the off chance that there’s a good guy inside.”
I agree, it’s a risk. But when I suggested to another male virgin poster here, Michael, that he try to talk to the shy, geeky, fat girl in the back of the room, for instance, his reply was, “people are attracted to people who garner positive attention from other people”…… in short, “why should I approach her if nobody else thinks she’s “hot” enough to approach?” That coming from an almost 30 year old virgin nonetheless!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Oh the irony!
So yeah, if Michael and guys like him are of that opinion – then the shoe can be worn on the opposite foot as well.
But then you’ll get tons of lonely but otherwise “normal” folks who never get talked to.
And another thing that I’ve brought up before – a lot of these awkward male virgins may be “nice” enough, but they also sometimes come with diagnosed or un-diagnosed mental/emotional disorders or issues.
My advice to them is to seek out support groups for people with the same issues, and try to meet a woman there.
But more often than not “crazy” wants to bang “normal”.
Beggars can’t be choosers.
Men also recoil when women start to display any sort of frustration at all. Some men just want to hear about rainbows and unicorns when they talk to women.
I have the same question about is “EVERYONE” doing it? I never thought I would say this, but what of the (insufferable) black turtleneck crowd who are into (insufferable) bands and spend hours discussing (insufferable) pseudointellectual crap? Are they into hookups too? I never thought I would say this (since my town has an art institute it is overrun with these (insufferable) (Well maybe not TOOOO insufferable) types (I am trying not to use the dreaded h-word so I will say creative types) Is it that hard to break into their crowd and hang with at least the less insufferable ones? I attend a regular bar trivia (which is really big in my town…there’s one every night at different bars) and I see mixed groups who really do seem like they are friends and not super competitive (which I think a lot of hookup culture is about…competition) It seems as if these groups (maybe a bit older than college) are friends and probably make fun of the types of people who would go to the more hookup-scene bars. Not sure since I am an old fogey.
I want to party with Poly Desi.
We may actually be on the same page. I just wanted to point out that calling out guys with those types of frustrations as creepy doesn’t necessarily help the situation. I totally get what you’re saying though regarding the hateful attitude. I agree that that’s a deterrent if nothing else.
Women condemn bros and their ilk, but they still sleep with them, and that sends a powerful message to the guys that aren’t getting any.
“And I think after it happened he held it against me that I had agreed to have sex with him under these conditions. This was even more confusing – you want me to have sex with you, say it’s an expression of love, but if I do then I’m “too easy”?! ”
YES THIS!!!! Has this been talked about on this blog before? I have heard some guys sincerely (as far as I could tell) admit they lost respect for the very same woman they were chasing the hell out of, for “giving in so easy” and put her in the “not for a relationship” category whereas they (seemingly sincerely) talk like they were considering her for relationship material before having sex “too early.” I am not saying it’s right–I am just saying I have heard guys say this. How many guys are like that I wonder? How long must we wait to have sex and pass their “Oops gave in too soon…I fell out of love with her and therefore she is OK to use for not-a-relationship” or whatever goes through their minds? I hope it just *some* guys. I mean I know it is not all guys. But enough that when I got the “I’m not ready for a relationship” at the 2 month or so mark, it made me think “did we have sex too soon?” That was in the past. You DEFINITELY have to get me drunk before I will talk about my sex life of the present.
The idea that there will be increasingly more Sodinis isn’t exactly new…Roissy wrote a pretty controversial piece on that (that I’m betting you saw). It’s logical to assume that more disenfranchised males = more of a risk of that kind of thing. It’s just a question of whether or not you believe that.
You’re right, it is scary. I personally don’t think W&N was actually advocating it though, which would be even worse.
A love for spicy Indian food is the first requirement, Snowdrop.
I’m trotting her qoute. I don’t care who said – even if Roissy said it, I’d qoute it.
PD, please stop giving physical descriptions of women you think are at the bottom of the barrel, e.g. fat librarian, or shy, geeky fat girl at the back of the room. You have no idea who might read and be hurt by your comments. I also don’t accept the notion that all the “undesirables” should just hook up with each other because beggars can’t be choosers. It’s incredibly disrespectful to suggest that certain people have no right to hold out for sexual attraction.
I agree with Sox. There are eminently normal guys who either have trouble getting a girlfriend (or laid) and hang out down at the pub all night talking about Vonnegut and what have you. Remember the guys in High Fidelity who were a little eccentric but good-hearted… Jack Black may have been a little bitter at the type of person who didn’t like his style of music, but the other guy, the one who was into Belle and Sebastian, got the girl and Jack Black and John Cusack were happy for him. There really are guys like this, tons of ‘em. They never quite got on the bro track and probably didn’t want to, and they may not want a girlfriend who is conventional because it would be too much work to have a house and everything it takes to fund the conventional lifestyle, and maybe they have a McJob, and a studio apartment filled to the rafters with books and alphabetized indie pop (ugh) but they can be really good-hearted and fun. I know a lot of these types of guys out of whose mouths I have never heard a bitter comment except about whatever coach of whatever team lost the playoffs etc.
Being a virgin is NOT what makes someone creepy. Being passive, non-assertive, and shy also does NOT make them creepy. It just so happens that SOME shy virgins also have other characteristics that make them creepy as well. This is what I’ve tried to explain to some of the shy, virgin male friends I have who complain “nice guys finish last. girls don’t like us.”
It’s not that girls don’t like them because they are “nice”….. they have OTHER issues that are just plain weird. So instead of me buttering them up with false hopes of “yeah, you can get a hot, normal woman to devote her heart to you”… I keep it real by telling them, “dude, this is your issue. your best bet will be to ONLY try for the girls that have the SAME ISSUE as you”.
Sodini clearly had psychological issues. It’s appearant in that video he made of the “tour” of his house.
Again, he was shooting for the young, hot, normal women. He should’ve shot for women in his same age range who had the same psychological issue(s) he had, whatever that was.
I don’t think he was either. However, I do think it’s become a go-to indirect threat for disenfranchised men, which implies that they take some comfort in it. While I don’t think that translates to a wish for violence, it does feel as if frightening women is the goal.
Susan, I don’t think geeky, shy or fat women are “bottom of the barrell” at all – MEN DO. That’s why when I suggest them to men like Michael, they protest.
People can hold out for “sexual attraction” but my point is, someone who you are not at first sexually attracted to (mainly because your peers are not sexually attracted to them, as is the case with Michael when he said, “if no one else is attracted to her, why should I be?”), anyway, such a person, over time and when you get to know them and appreciate their qualities, CAN GROW ON YOU, and you may find yourself VERY sexually attracted to them.
My point is: rather than cry on the net about being an adult virgin – cast your net a bit further and you might be pleasantly surprised.
So many guys are ready to write so many girls off just for not “looking hot”.
Haha, you got close with all that talk of hairy male bodies. This subject has been discussed at length here, as you can imagine. To be honest, I don’t think there is one answer for all men. Some men say that if they like a woman a lot from the start, the timing is irrelevant – the first date is OK. Others want a woman with a low number, so her giving in too soon is a red flag. And others are in it for the short-term, so the sooner the better. Some really don’t mind too much if a woman has had many partners, but I suspect that nearly every man (and woman) has a number somewhere in the back of their mind. Personally, I think a good rule is to have sex with someone you have had the opportunity to know well. One of the male commenters suggested this, and I think it’s excellent advice. You’re not saying, “third date,” you’re saying you need a level of intimacy with a person before you get naked.
Haha, I will tolerate no hipster bashing here! Everyone knows I have a weakness for guys in Chuck Taylors and skinny jeans.
As to your question, yup they hook up as much as anyone, though not in bro fashion. They MIGHT be more relationship oriented, I’m not sure. Since they tend to be creative types, as you say, they are emo, which has its pros and cons.
Women condemn bros and their ilk, but they still sleep with them
If I were a guy this would drive me insane. Female hypergamy is no fun for 80% of males.
I can buy into that. I especially agree that people can grow on you. For people who have trouble connecting with the opposite sex, just getting out and exchanging pleasant conversation without expectations is the best first step. Start with friendship. I also agree that it’s incredibly annoying when people gripe about being desperate and then say they’re picky. Okaaaayy.
Both men and women need to be realistic about their own charms before they make a laundry list for potential partners.
Men condemn DTFs and “sluts” yet still sleep with them. If I were a woman (wait! I am) this would drive me insane.
“A wise girl kisses but doesn’t love, listens but doesn’t believe, and leaves before she is left.”
— Mother Theresa
“Hollywood is a place where they’ll pay you a thousand dollars for a kiss and fifty cents for your soul.”
— Albert Einstein
Men are not choosy. Women are the gatekeepers. We are in charge of selection, but too often we think with the bean.
You beat me to it. The sexes are NOT the same in that regard.
Besides, men wouldn’t actually choose DTFs and sluts (or are they the same?) over the alternative, they’re just the ones that put out.
“The success of love is in the loving – it is not in the result of loving. Of course it is natural in love to want the best for the other person, but whether it turns out that way or not does not determine the value of what we have done. ”
Marilyn Monroe
I’m going to keep this short and sweet and respond to everything at once.
1. I’m not sure how there can be numerous complaint emails against me when I rarely comment here. More so I haven’t posted a comment in over a day and a half when this nonsense about me started.
2. Poly Desi aka Bag Lady aka Desi FPUA aka thousands of other names I can’t remember is the biggest supporter of the OP. Susan have you checked the IPs of Smitten and Poly Desi to make sure it isn’t one of her names? Poly Desi has been banned from multiple blogs such as Obsidian’s for sockpuppeting and trollish behavior.
3. I have without reservation denounced violence multiple times on different blogs as a method of dealing with these problems. That doesn’t mean the problem of violence will go away. There will be more Sodinis in the future. More and more men are being politically, economically, socially, and yes, sexually/romantically disenfranchised. The response here is that its “scary”. Don’t open up a history book because they are filled with chapters about disenfranchised people being violent.
I am not the only one to talk about this. Roissy, Obsidian, and The Fifth Horseman have all talked about this in greater detail than I have. They have also had lots of sex. I’m sure you will call them “bitter and angry virgins” too.
If you find my minimal Sodini predictions scary, I’m surprised no one is scared by my predictions about a future military dictatorship or theocracy. With growing numbers of disenfranchised men, they are more and more likely to vote for and support a change to a military dictatorship or a theocracy. That will cause you more problems than a random Sodini.
4. If you don’t want to befriend a lonely guy then don’t. Putting aside that doing such a thing as group is safer and more effective, you don’t have to do anything you don’t want to do. But let us lonely male virgins live without interference from women trying to be cruel to us. Don’t randomly throw drinks in our faces because we’re in the same room as you but keeping to ourselves. Don’t make up sexual harassment stories to get us fired from our jobs.
5. I am not blaming all women for the actions of a few women. Most women haven’t tried to get me fired from my job by making up a sexual harassment story. What women have done is refuse to support me or refuse to support facts, truth, honesty and decency. One time I was hundreds of miles away from the office where the sexual harassment story took place on a business trip. No woman would support me even in such an obvious case. If it wasn’t for my field of work being mainly men, I’m sure I would be unemployed right now and another statistic in the mancession.
6. When I say I have given up I mean it. I have no right to demand sex or a relationship from a woman. I agree with that statement. What I want is to be able to do things like go to work without having to wonder if today I’m going to get another sexual harassment complaint against me. I want to live my life in peace, and I do have a right to that.
7. I’m not interested in a flame war so this is the last thing I have to say about this.
reformed_tomboy: Yeah, that’s what I’m doing now. I go out to say hi to a few friends and leave at around 12:30, 1 at the latest. Things usually dont get hot on weekends until 1:30 or later when all of the big frat parties get into full swing, but those are harder for me to enjoy. If I force myself to stay out I just get bored and frustrated and waste time.
As for making the first move, don’t worry, I’m under no illusions. I’m never gonna expect a girl to ask me out. There’s another girl on campus I’m looking to ask out soon but I’m getting a few opinions and some advice from friends before I move forward. She seems like a good character type, but one thing I’ve learned when it comes to pursuing girls is to NEVER assume the best. Some of the sweetest looking girls out there could put Carrie Bradshaw to shame.
@Susan: I don’t doubt that a lot of the girls participating are ticked off to, but I find it harder to have sympathy for them given the fact that they’re the ones telling me to buzz off all the time. That said, I understand how this environment can damage even those who are participating so the grass on the other side might not be as green as many think.
It still looks a little greener than the turf on my side of the fence, though.
@Poly Desi:
“I just don’t get it. Surely not EVERYONE is getting wasted and hooking up every weekend on your campus. Why don’t you just hang out with the students who AREN’T doing that?”
Because they’re all doing that. 90% of the students are involved with the whole scene. The vast majority of students on my campus are either in or strongly associated with greek organizations.
The 10% who aren’t are either never seen or act like I do by occasionally tagging along with those who are participating and kind of observing instead of immersing themselves in the scene and going wild.
“It’s not true Susan that Arabs only want Arab friends. And if Althone has to “work hard” to “fit in” with the alcoholics and sluts anyway, there is no reason to not work just as hard to fit in with people more in line with his ethics.”
If it is any consolation, I’ve already done this. I researched some fraternities to pledge next year. Instead of going to the traditional football fraternity where weekend debauchery is the norm and the girls tend to be attractive groupie types with high alpha thresholds who’d never give me the time of day, I’m going to the wealthier, more conservative frat across the street where the other relatively sober members of my team all hang out. There is less alcohol there and many fewer parties, but its an atmosphere where I won’t feel like a herb at 1:00AM because I’m not wasted yet. I’ve already gotten two or three of my other teammates to put it at the top of their list to.
You do not, however, seem to understand the dynamics of the issue. Yes, you can find a niche, and yes, I’m not the only one with this problem. That doesn’t change how pervasive this culture is. When you’re outnumbered 10-1 by people on the otherside of the fence, the negatives are going to outweigh the positives. Stereotypes just make it worse. When you realize your chances of adapting to understand and fit into this culture are just about ZERO, depression can start to set in. Why? Because at that point you also realize that you’ll have a harder time connecting with some of your teammates and you probably wont enjoy as much female company as your friends who are hooking up every weekend.
It is a very difficult environment to find yourself in.
“Heck, he could hang out with the geeky guys who AREN’T getting laid and play video games or something. I just read a lot of excuses in his comments.”
Did you go to college here? The geeks are getting just as wasted. Hell, they even have their very own fraternities just for that. in winter me and a teammate walked over there once because the football frat was out of beer but the NERDS STILL HAD PLENTY! Sometimes I hear the ones on my hall pre-gaming on friday nights and leaving shitfaced. So are the desis and most of the other minorities here. Joining a club doesn’t get rid of the problem.
You really just have no idea, its almost comical how clueless you appear on this subject.
OK Athlone, how about older women? If you are a well-built Black guy with a moderately cute face PLUS intelligence and cultured behaviour, which you sound to be — I can rattle off the names of about 10 women right of the top of my head in 5 seconds who I know would just eat you right up (pun intended). But they are all between 27-39.
Sheeeeet – I’d even date you!
I don’t think most people understand male virgins/undersexed males so maybe I should explain.
I am a virgin but I remember what it was like in college.
The worst thing about being a male virgin is that you don’t understand why you are a male virgin. The whole sex thing seems inexplicable to you. Women seem to not like you and you don’t know why. You are not ugly. You aren’t incredibly short. You are nice. You have a reasonable job. Your smart. Why do women seem to register automatic disgust whenever they meet you. How come whenever you ask a woman out she doesn’t want you in “that way”. Why doesn’t it every work out. With other things in life it seems like you can get what you want. But with this there seems to be some ephemeral quality you don’t possess. Other guys are in but you are out. Women just don’t like you. But why? They don’t seem to have any special qualities that you don’t have. WTF?
Put yourself in their situation. Imagine everyone despising you but you don’t know why. When you talk to people they look at you awkwardly and try to get away from you. You are nice but nobody is nice back and you no fucking clue as to why you are being treated the way you are. Trust me, if you endure that for 20 years you will be very, very bitter.
Look at George Soldini and you will observe this. There is no rational reason he should have been sexless for so long.
I know plenty of bitter undersexed males like Soldini who despise women, are reasonably good looking, have good jobs and have no ability to get women.
“Poly Desi aka Bag Lady aka Desi FPUA aka thousands of other names I can’t remember is the biggest supporter of the OP”
What does OP stand for?
Also, what does “lax” mean? I see that used along with “chay” when referring to Frat types. Someone already explained what “chay” means, but what’s this “lax”?
The Desi word the PUAs use is “chod”…. Some PUA “guru” was trying to sound exotic, mysterious and esoteric in a seminar by saying it’s an “ancient Hindu (Sanskrit)” word.
It’s not ancient, Hindu OR Sansrkit…………… it’s modern day HINDI slang.
Assman, regarding Sodini, did you watch his “house tour” video? Come on, the guy had issues. It was obvious.
1 2 »
{ 4 trackbacks }