The wild night is calling.
And all the girls walk by
Dressed up for each other
Van Morrison, Wild Night
I’ve had a theory for a while about makeup. Women wear it to attract men, but often apply it in such a way as to subvert their own goals. I believe that different looks attract different types of attention, and women should use makeup strategically in keeping with their mating objectives.
My theory was given a boost last weekend, when Jenna, an attractive college senior I know personally, called to tell me a funny story. She and her roommates had nothing special planned last Friday, but at around 10 a guy friend called inviting them to a party. He urged them not to dawdle, because the host would stop letting people in if it got too crowded.
Jenna jumped in the shower, washed her hair, and flew around getting ready for the next half hour. She blew her hair dry, and was applying her makeup when her roommates told her they were going now. Thankfully, she was just putting on her lipstick, so she grabbed her shoes and ran out the door. On the way, she was horrified when she caught a glimpse of herself in the car window, and realized she had never done her eyes. Her hair, skin and lips looked fabulous, but her eyes looked beady and her blonde lashes were nearly invisible! Her roommates thought this was hilarious, but neither had eye makeup with them, and they refused to go back.
About a half hour into the party, the handsomest boy in the room approached Jenna and introduced himself. They talked and danced all evening. At the end of the evening, he asked to take her home, and she said, “Look, nothing is going to happen tonight. I don’t hook up.” (Yay Jenna!)
To her amazement, he was taken aback and assured her that he had no ideas along those lines. He said, “I’m not even trying to make this a one-night thing.” It’s been less than a week, but Jenna says all flags are green so far.
She wonders if there could possibly be any connection to the fact that she wore no makeup? Did it make her seem more approachable? More modest? Jenna attracts her fair share of players, always with the smokey eye look. They always take off as soon as they realize she’s not going to put out. Had Jenna been doing some false advertising, specifically selecting for hardened player types?
Why do women wear makeup?
All women’s fashion, whether cosmetic or clothing, is designed to make the female appear young and fertile to males. The cosmetics industry makes products that virtually all young women purchase in some amount. Women’s magazines relentlessly promote cosmetics, not only via ads but also through articles instructing women about the new colors for the season, and plenty of instruction on how to apply it. I’m certain that on the newstand today, I could find dozens of features on the most effective way to create that coveted smokey eye look.
The designing and marketing of cosmetics is tailored to female insecurity around beauty, as defined primarily by gay men and merchants. When straight men are asked about makeup, they often express the belief that less is more. But Fashion Week sets the tone, literally, and bizarro runway models with freaky painted faces inspire next season’s lines.
Are women painting their faces in a way that repels men? Or certain kinds of men? Are they dressing up for each other as part of the rituals of intrasexual female competition for the most desirable males?
There is no question that makeup draws the attention of men. One study had two women in their early 20s go to bars for sixty sessions over twenty nights. Sometimes they wore makeup, sometimes they went bare. On nights when the women used cosmetics, they were approached within 17 minutes, and by an average of 2 men per hour. On the other nights, 1.5 men approached, on average, within 23 minutes.
This is key: Women with makeup get hit on more in bars.
Why do men approach women in bars? In hopes of gaining access to sex. So we may surmise that wearing makeup leads to more requests for sex. What we don’t know is how women wearing makeup fare in other settings. Do women wearing makeup in class get more male attention? Are those men indirectly requesting sex? Do women with less or no makeup get male attention, and if so, do those males have a different objective?
The wearing of makeup goes back 6,000 years and has been present in nearly every society on earth. It has very practical applications in creating the appearance of high fertility:
| Fertility Cue | Cosmetic | |
| Eyes | Clear, bright, large |
Eyeshadow and mascara make eyes look larger. Dark lashes and eyeliner make whites of eyes look whiter. Shaping brows frames the eyes, and removes hair to produce the appearance of higher estrogen. |
| Mouth |
Full, dark lips Even, white teeth |
Lip color fades with age, so naturally red lips indicate youth. Lipsticks and stains mimic the effect. Gloss implies the female is salivating with desire. Teeth whitening and straightening advertise good dental genes. |
| Skin |
Clear, even tone Rosy cheeks |
Foundations even out tone and cover spots or blotchiness. Blush mimics the rosy hue of youth in the cheeks. |
| Hair | Shiny, healthy, thick | Hair products create shine, texture and body. Long, abundant hair shows off the feature to its fullest advantage. |
When is enough enough? At what point has the desired effect been reached? Consider these photos of celebrities:
One study asked 100 random men on the street which pics they preferred:
Ashley Greene: Natural 76%, Glam 24%
Charlize Theron: Natural 72%, Glam 28%
Megan Fox: Natural 82%, Glam 18%
Jennifer Lopez: Natural 62%, Glam 38%
Zoe Saldana: Natural 54%, Glam 46%
Of course, it’s women who will decide the morning after a red carpet event who looked great and who looked terrible. The men have little influence.
Badger recently weighed in on this at Badger Hut:
STRAIGHT TALK FROM A REGULAR DUDE
Here’s a newsflash for women from me, on behalf of men in general: we don’t give a shit about fashion. We don’t care what celebrities are wearing on the red carpet. (We do care about what’s under the dresses.) Heavy makeup does not make a woman prettier, although light makeup is tasteful. Fashionable clothing does not make a woman any hotter; Kate Middleton is pretty no matter what she’s wearing, though I understand that to women around the world she would just be Katie from the block if she didn’t have William’s nuclear preselection. (Speaking of which, I’ll never understand why Cammila Bowles wore a dead bird in her hair in her wedding to Prince Charles.)
When we have to go somewhere we don’t care if it’s the pink top or the blue top. Maybe your ass does look fat in those pants, but we’ll give your groin a tactile examination just to make sure.
A beauty blogger named Anna shared this illuminating conversation with her fiance:
Eric: “You’re so beautiful”
Me: “Really? You never say I look beautiful when I wear makeup. I mean, do you like me with makeup?”
Eric: “Well of course you look pretty with makeup.”
Me: “You seem to compliment me more when I look like a little dude.”
Eric: “No, when you’re Not wearing makeup it’s like, you look innocent. I look in your eyes and see your soul. I can’t see to your soul with all that clown whore makeup on.”
Me: “…………….(blink blink)………………..thanks……….”
Clown whore makeup? Is that how we look to men?
Another woman wrote in recently to an advice column written by a professional matchmaker:
Q: I’m getting sick and tired of guys only wanting one thing from me. I’m in my 20s, and have had only one boyfriend. The rest of the men I’ve been with have all been one-night stands and booty calls.
I feel like guys take one look at me and think sex. I’m tall and have blond hair. I do like to dress sexy when I go out, but I try to keep it sophisticated-sexy. I’m a very confident and outgoing person and I love to meet new people, which is often why I go up to random guys and start up a conversation.
Does this make me seem easy? What am I doing wrong? Should I stop dressing sexy? Wear lighter makeup? Stop approaching guys? Stop going to nightclubs?
A. I don’t think you’re doing anything wrong by wearing makeup, being blond and tall, or wearing sophisticated-sexy outfits. Anyone going to a bar or club trying to meet people should definitely strive to look their best and be outgoing and approachable. However, if you want to meet someone who’s interested in you for more than a hookup, you need to stop hooking up. Period.
Well this advice is total crap. She’s missing the whole point. Let me fix it:
If you want to meet someone who’s interested in you for more than a hookup, you need to stop looking like you’re down for a one-night stand.
For an understanding of what men are looking for when they want a relationship, I turned to Andy Ajzenkopf at Ask Men, who wrote an article about The Appeal of The Girl Next Door.
“Most guys are attracted to the all-night, uber-party girl. But eventually, our focus shifts toward someone with whom we can settle down.
Typically, we look for the wholesome, naturally pretty, more demure female who we’ve come to know as “the girl next door.” Somehow she embodies all of our more mature and tamer instincts: marriage, children and tender companionship.”
Here’s how he defines her:
“Every guy may have his specific girl-next-door prototype, but in general, she’s the girl whom you always admired from afar and were afraid to approach, fearing that any erotic projection toward her would ruin her image as a decent, pure and almost virginal womanly ideal.
She’s (in your mind at least) untrodden ground; unspoiled by other men and so sweet-natured it almost frightens you to think of her in explicit sexual situations. Almost.”
He’s looking for several specific qualities, but here’s the one that jumped out at me:
“She doesn’t attract attention. She’s “under the radar,” so to speak. Guys won’t hit on her everywhere you go; not because she’s unattractive, but because she prefers to remain low-key, both in her appearance and her attitude. She’s neither a flirt nor is she flashy; but she has that natural beauty that doesn’t require coats of makeup.”
Men appreciate authencity, and they hate being duped. I read one account of a man who talked a woman into going home with him, but when they got outside under the streetlight he almost had a heart attack and bailed when he saw how much makeup she was wearing. Another guy talked about a woman who “got ready” in his bathroom, and when she emerged without makeup, he yelled, “Dude, what did you do with your sister?!”
I don’t have any scientific evidence for my theory. But I’m willing to bet that if you go easy on the makeup, you’ll get a better class of guy approaching you. Of course, it depends on what you consider classy. If you’re looking for The Situation, don’t change a thing.
{ 243 comments… read them below or add one }
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Make up is kind of gross in my point of view. Even when women do looked “glam” in all the right ways, it has a more artificiality to them.
Here’s my take:
When a girl wears make up she attracts all the guys who are wanting the one night stands. It’s like women posting a specific target saying, “I’m here to look attractive, pick me, because I’m fun and I know it.” Those women are super confident.
Then there are the girls that just go to parties without make up. The girls who are sweetly and sincerely down to Earth. I just met one of these girls at a party and went in to kiss her the second time, she said, “wait, I can’t go that fast.” It was really cute. These are really sweet girls. They’re relationship material.
The reason guys who look at these women as relationship material is because the guys are more of a beta material. These beta men are looking to hit on women who aren’t lavishly put together with make up and paint, because frankly they can’t hit on them, it’s too intimidating. When a woman comes around with no make up, or has no idea how to put on make up in the first place, she becomes practical. That’s something men could actually see themselves get into in the long term.
Women who put on make up attract alpha males. Most alpha males just want to get laid and get over with it. Women who don’t wear make up don’t exactly attract alpha males because these women don’t seem like they’d be a challenge, they seem most probable that they’d hurt their feelings, and just aren’t looking to take things slow. They also don’t have the blaring obvious signals of a girl who’s confident and practiced in getting laid and getting what she wants, ie the make up, the short skirt, the exposed bra strap line. Those women aren’t seen as girlfriend material. They’re seen as a get laid quit pathway.
That’s where that girl found the right guy, the beta guy. If she was wearing full blown out make up she would’ve scared him off and intimidated him, but she wasn’t. So he came in for the opportunity.
Great post. Chock full of useful advice.
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FWIW, my GF is a make-up artist and esthetician so I’ve seen more different make-up looks then the combinations of a 6 number lottery.
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Absolutely true that the specific make-up look will influence the perception of “what type of girl you are”.
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Word of advice. Watch the eyebrows. DO NOT OVERPLUCK them and/overshape them. The two worst looks are the way too arched that starts to look almost witchy, and the way too thin look that looks like they are penciled in and not real.
I hate it when girls wear too much makeup. It looks incredibly tacky and even whorish at times.
A little mascara and that face powdering stuff, whatever it’s called, goes a long way.
And please, please no lipstick.
Less is more.
I will add that one of the reasons by husband hates make up is because he has to eat it while making out/kissing. It seems like Elizabeth Arden doesn’t have bacon tasting foundation. :p
I don’t know how people got into their heads that men want to make love to somebody other than a regular woman. Don’t worry about what society thinks. You are drop dead gorgeous as you are.
From,
Single Guy.
Makeup increas the contrast in the face and fools men into seeing markers of high estrogen. If a girl can look gorgeous without makeup then she is “genuine goods,” hence men are more likely to want to commit to her.
http://health.dailynewscentral.com/content/view/0001851/43/
Not sure where the smoky eye thing comes from, but perhaps it had been a way to make the eyes appear larger, and now it’s way overdone and looks ridiculous.
Why yes.
If the girl made an effort to look the part, chances are she wants to play the part, too.
Makeup looks great – from 10 feet away. Apply makeup like an artist, not a mason.
Bacon foundation; damn, now there’s an idea! How ’bout bacon-cheeseburger foundation? … Might attract the cannibals though.
Two words on the subject of make-up. Liverpool, England.
Bacon foundation; damn, now there’s an idea! How ’bout bacon-cheeseburger foundation? ….
I’m sure my husband love that
. That is why I mentioned it he loves bacon so probably he wouldn’t mind me wearing make up, if it tasted like that. lol
The fiancée doesn’t seem to wear a lot of makeup, but then she complains of skin reactions to most formulations so that might be the reason. She looks fine to me regardless.
A program on television in New Zealand did a comparison with a group of men and some women who agreed to go without, with light makeup, and then with heavy makeup. The men were asked to rate attractiveness under the various levels of makeup. To a man the attractiveness dropped as the makeup level went up.
Opinion on make-up from a heterosexual male:
A girl who wears too much make-up not only looks fake, but I subconsciously start thinking she’s a drama-loving bitch, too. Same thing with guidettes who have oompa loompa fake tans. I just assume they’re walking vaginas with no substance.
In every make-up/no make-up comparison shown above, I find the versions without makeup more attractive. Gay men really have no say in what makes a woman more attractive…leave that up to the straight guys.
Of course, it’s more about profiting off of insecurity than anything else. It’s just like people who try to sell ellipticals as the optimal machine for improving cardio. They’re practically useless for anyone but the morbidly obese or injured athletes.
While I’m on that topic, another myth on par with the make-up myth is that strength training will make a woman look manly and unattractive in no time. This is cited as a reason for women to stick to dumbells of <5 pounds. The truth is, getting the bulk of a typical male bodybuilder is very hard for a woman to do without steroids or other performance enhancing drugs. Furthermore, even if she gains a bit of muscle, this can help accentuate her (feminine) curves. The following link illustrates this, about a third of the way down the page.
http://www.answerfitness.com/82/fat-calculate-body-fat-percentage-answer-fitness/
The media convinces women they should look like Nicole Ritchie. As a guy, I'm sure I'm no where near alone when I say that Jen and Amanda are leaps and bounds more attractive. The first picture makes me think "OMG, you need me to get you a bowl of soup?". The other pictures make me think "hmm, I wonder what she's like in bed!".
Conclusion: An hour spent fussing over make-up and hair detailing is an hour better spent improving your body in a meaningful and fulfilling way.
I personally find makeup kind of disgusting. In my experience, the more formal the occasion, the less attractive the girls’ faces look. Give me fresh-out-the-shower any day.
Likewise, I find high heels more painful-looking than attractive. To me the most attractive shoes are pink sneakers–at once feminine, athletic, and practical.
Makeup is to women what game is to men.
That being said, count me in among those who prefer less of it on their women. I know a few girls who make a point of really glamming it up when they head out to the frat on weekends. They also go all out with their clothing. This stands out, because frats are extra casual at my school-jeans and a blouse form the standard attire and even on school days people walk around in basic sweatpants. People rarely dress up much, so when they do it is quite visible.
These girls are some of the flirtiest and flakiest girls I’ve ever met. “Overglam” is a useful means with which to spot an attention whore on a spotlighting streak. One man simply isn’t enough to satisfy their appetite for attention, so any dude who tries to go on that route is doomed to failure. Avoid these women like the plague.
Well this makes me happy.
I didn’t technically start wearing makeup until college (I wore makeup one day each year for my dance recital until I graduated from highschool. When I wore makeup it was during a night out with my friends. Funny thing is, I had no intention of hooking up and having casual sex.
But yeah, now I don’t wear makeup at all. Once I can get a handle on my skin and get contacts, then I’ll start wearing a little bit on special occasions.
I hardly ever wear make up – the most you’ll ever see me wear is some eye liner and mascara – like really rarely.
Inspector Climate has never once noticed or said anything about make up (although he did once tell me that before he met me he would have said that he never noticed a girl’s hair before, but my curls were what drew him to me).
I’ve always felt like another version of me when I wear make up. Which is sometimes fun, but it’s definitely not who I would want to project to get a boyfriend.
Whenever I wear makeup, I prefer it to be as natural as possible. I don’t even wear lipstick (cherry chapstick does the trick for me most of the time).
When I go out, I’d dress up, but the most I’d ever add to my day makeup would be a darker eyeshadow. The other weekend I went out with day makeup at night anyway and I still got hit on by an alpha dude.
This weekend I think I’ll go out with day makeup + red lipstick. It’s a bold look I’ve been itching to try when out with the girls. I’m curious to see if there’s any difference in the amount of attention!
I know men dont like makeup and I’m someone who used to put on a full face of makeup everyday a year ago but I’ve gone completely natural. However, I know for a FACT guys I like wouldnt approach me if I didnt have makeup on. Lets get real. Some of us NEED makeup…I hate that! I really wish one day I could just go without makeup and a good looking guy would actually find me pretty/beautiful.
Honestly, if a girl needs to cake on makeup before going out, she probably isn’t all that pretty in the first place. A jazzed up 6 is still a 6.
Not necessarily. Girls who don’t need makeup tend to not wear it; or wear minimal amounts of it. Alpha males don’t really go after naturally beautiful women. A 10 that knows she’s a 10 wouldn’t take their BS. Alphas avoid beautiful women because they don’t want the challenge i.e. risk getting rejected.
A jazzed up 6 is still a 6.
Question for the guys. Can a woman up her numbers with make up? and inversely can she lower her number with too much make up?
@Butterfly Flower
I get the hotties with zero BS. I’m not afraid of getting rejected.
By the way, a 6 (aka a tweener) is a girl who can benefit most from make up.
Wonderful article. I have never been one for lots of make up. My mother always told me you just need to acentuate what you have. I just use a primer and a little blush and neutral eyes. I think I look better with makeup, but it is just because I use it to even out skin tone. It takes me 10 minutes to get ready for a party.
I think the other thing that isn’t really mentioned here is that most girls are using makeup to hide themselves. I find that girls that wear too much makeup aren’t really happy with who they are. They think they need the makeup to be beautiful. A woman is beautiful because of her confidence and regardless of how you apply your makeup if you have that confidence guys are going to find you hot.
@Stephenie Rowling
Yes and Yes.
The girls who benefit most from make up are 6s and 7s. An overdone 8 looks like a whore, and 9s hardly need any at all and will lower themselves with too much.
CrossFit, push yourself, leave the makeup off.
Strong is the new skinny.
Oh good it’s not just me who thinks high heels look stupid.
Oh good it’s not just me who thinks high heels look stupid.
But porn aimed at men has female porn stars in the most impossible uncomfortable looking heels…while doing it! So what gives?
Really? I thought that men thought high heels were attractive because of the way they forced women to stand (legs look longer, chest is forwards and butt sticks out).
Then again if she looks ungainly in a painful pair that would probably not look as hot, lol.
@ Chico: none of those pictures are without makeup. They’re just a more natural look vs. a more dramatic one. Google image search “stars without makeup” or similar to see what they look like with none at all.
In my experience, most men can’t tell you’re wearing makeup if it’s natural looking–they just think you look better. Like, I’ve had guys look at me and comment on how I don’t wear makeup–while I’m wearing concealer, powder, mascara, blush, and a little eyeliner. I’m always skeptical when a guy says “I like women much better without makeup!” because probably many of the women you think aren’t wearing any makeup are just wearing natural-looking makeup.
@Mike C
I admit that I was thinking of your gf while writing this post, and hoping I wasn’t getting it wrong! That’s good advice about eyebrows. People are hardly aware of them, but they play an important role in overall facial features. I’ve had friends who have lost their eyebrows during chemo, and it’s very strange looking. I recall being surprised that the absence of brows could make such a big difference.
@Jonathan Manor
That’s some pretty good reinforcement for my theory there. Confirmation that makeup style sends a message. Women need to understand what that message is, because many of them are clueless on this front.
@SayWhaat
Heels are hot. Ditch the flip flops and Uggs.
Excellent advice. Subtlety is important. Don’t shovel it on with a trowel.
Seriously, suddenly bacon is everywhere. The local cafe has bacon syrup you can put in your latte. A Friendly’s ad pushes a bacon maple sundae. Gross! I love bacon as it is – processed, sugary adornments are just silly.
I’m not saying all, most, or even a single other man (well, okay, two other men), don’t or shouldn’t find it attractive. I’m saying I don’t find it attractive.
Maybe for some men. For me the motion is very important. With high heels the best you can get is “not completely failing at walking”–hardly cause for attraction. If you want to try to attach some evo-psych explanation to it, I’m going to suggest that any creature caught walking like that in the wild probably has a foot tumor of some sort.
Seriously, suddenly bacon is everywhere. The local cafe has bacon syrup you can put in your latte. A Friendly’s ad pushes a bacon maple sundae. Gross! I love bacon as it is – processed, sugary adornments are just silly.
Heh Funny enough I hate pork (salami, bacon,ribs…). So for me is just Gross! All the time, but the hubby loves it so I cook it for him…The things we do for love.
Anyone seen Dave Chappelle’s Ho’s Uniform? To paraphrase him:
“Ok Miss, you are not a ho, but you are wearing ho’s uniform. It’s confusing!”
Same goes with makeup.
At the same time, it doesn’t give you girls the license to dress way down, because that’s just a cheap & nasty kind of “ho’s uniform”.
Be artsy and classy.
Also, take into account this. If you’re too used to hiding behind too much makeup, fake hair & flattering fashionable clothes, you might even score a decent man who’s not out to pump & dump at first. However, the morning after he wakes up with you and sees the real you sans magical accessories who’s 3 points lower than what he thought he slept with, he’d feel ripped off and it’s all down hill from there.
Okay, I definitely have to respond to this post. I didn’t wear makeup in college because I just plain didn’t know how to apply it. I also believed that only superficial guys would care about the fact that I didn’t wear makeup because that is what “feel-good-girl-power” advertising told me. Boy was I wrong. I was completely invisible to guys in college. I was the safe girl that guys in relationships could talk to and their girlfriends wouldn’t mind. On two dance nights, with the help of friends, I wore makeup. Wow, what a difference that made. Guys just couldn’t stop staring at me and some actually came and talked to me.
Fast forward to post-college life. My job requires me to look professional, so I have to wear some makeup. It is enough that males definitely notice me but other women complain that I hardly wear any makeup. From my experience, I’ve learned that men notice you only if you wear some makeup. There are times when I’ve gone out without makeup (grocery store, movies, bookstore, restaurants, etc.) and these times I am invisible to the male population. But if I put on a little makeup, BAM, I’ve caught the attention of many men in the vicinity. And talking to other females, it is the same for them. If they go out without makeup, they too are invisible to men. So I have to disagree with the many men here who say they prefer women without makeup. Either you can’t tell some women are wearing makeup, you truly do belong to a minority of men that feminists say exist but I’ve never met or you are lying. Because my experience and that of women that I know says otherwise. Men do prefer women with at least some makeup on.
“Heh Funny enough I hate pork (salami, bacon,ribs…).”
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Proof you’re Dominican and not Cuban.
Proof you’re Dominican and not Cuban
Actually everything has pork in there too. You need to remember that Spain’s cuisine spilled on the caribbean so most dishes have pork (mangu con salami, yaniqueques, sancocho…). So no, most Dominicans love pork (not bacon though they prefer salami) I’m just weird…as usual.
That would probably depend on the guy. A guy who exhibit’s characteristics that are associated with good genes likely wouldn’t be as concerned about his mate attracting attention than a guy with lesser genes. The latter would have to expend an inordinate amount of energy mate guarding while the former could rest assured that his mate would be less able to find someone to match his genetics.
Fetish, I would assume. Like a nurse’s uniform or a Catholic school girl uniform.
Honestly, I don’t notice the difference. I mean, I’m sure there is but at least to my eye it isn’t pronounced enough to make a difference.
It probably has more to do with a fashion that became popular because a popular woman started the trend:
I think this hits the nail on the head:
“Natural-looking” is the key phrase here. Take a look at someone with way too much makeup like Snookie. To behold the face of Snookie is to see the Uncanny Valley.
LOL! No shit! Build up that pedestal a little higher Single Guy.
As for the original anecdote, it’s already been nailed – Jenna managed to attract a beta, which is almost certainly not what she wanted.
I personally prefer the natural look too, but it really does lower the bar for approach. A particularly beautiful woman with well applied makeup can be very intimidating indeed.
On heels: I like ‘em. I particularly liked them on the coeds that showed up at the grocery store in thong bikinis with a very transparent white cotton shirt thrown over. I love spring. … Not really girl-next-door attire I guess.
One commenter said something about all a woman has to do to be attractive is be confident. Sorry dear, that is men’s game.
You need to display all the classic good fertility traits – loyalty, demureness, supportive personality and so on. If you are sarcastic, please turn that into teasing. If you swear a lot, STOP. It isn’t bothersome for a quick lay or so much with a FB; not attractive in a long term setting.
I am sure confidence is important, but signaling that you can be loyal is far more so, from my observation. Look at the emphasis among even the most jaded players of how quickly they will abandon a woman who strays.
Makeup CAN look good…BUT ONLY if a professional does it or if it’s to hide a blatantly obvious skin flaw. Even then, the lighter is better rule definitely applies.
Most celebrities in that “on” or “off” looked better without it anyway. Fully agree with Chico’s remarks about women and makeup (meaning a lot of it). It’s like the guidette look, only slightly more polished up.
@anon
“I’m always skeptical when a guy says “I like women much better without makeup!” because probably many of the women you think aren’t wearing any makeup are just wearing natural-looking makeup.”
Skin should have translucent depth. Lipstick is truly the worst. It makes me think of my Grandmother’s lips and worry that it’s going to smear off.
The only time heels make sense is on the dance floor. Worn anywhere else and I think you’ve got mental disorders. You can’t do shit in them. Though that doesn’t seem to stop women from pretending that they can drive in them anyways. What’s the point of making yourself even more helpless in the event of an emergency physical response? Need to run, jump, lift something heavy, hit the clutch/brake? No can do. Don’t worry, maybe a big strong man can sprint after a child tottering towards the street while you clack away.
Then again, I’m a beta, and you’re not trying to attract me. If you were, be practical and show common sense.
I personally prefer the natural look too, but it really does lower the bar for approach. A particularly beautiful woman with well applied makeup can be very intimidating indeed.
Why do so many women these days dress/present themselves/behave in a way that intimidates men? Heck, why do so many women these days walk around looking absolutely miserable? No wonder guys are afraid to approach them!
I have a very upbeat demeanor, so I tend to smile a lot for no reason. I’ve noticed that whenever I get all smiley and bubbly, Betas get the nerve to approach me and try to flirt!
I don’t understand the “untouchable Ice Queen” act. Do guys enjoy when girls stand around and sneer at everything? Isn’t smiling more attractive [not to mention, more effective]?
do women actually care what guys want anyway? they care about what the entertainment media want from them and guys have to say they like it to justify this nonsense. if a guy doesn’t like something, ie makeup, piercings, etc, then he is in clear violation, indirectly, of the entertainment media mandate and puts the girl in a quandry. she will of course defer to the media, not the man nor her own self.
Megan, got it in one.
You can usually tell when a woman is using make up to hide – she cakes herself in it. Ideally, make-up works when it accentuates a woman’s natural assets and minimises her flaws. That’s quite different to towelling on a mask with only a vague resemblance to your natural appearance.
My wife is a redhead with a tendency to get freckles from the summer sun. When we met she was really self conscious about them. I never really minded. I do prefer her to keep her skin protected from the sun (we’re Australian and skin cancer is a big problem here) but no need to hide what you really are.
“I’m always skeptical when a guy says “I like women much better without makeup!” because probably many of the women you think aren’t wearing any makeup are just wearing natural-looking makeup.”
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How makeup is like game: when done right, you don’t really notice it, when done wrong or over-done, you can tell someone’s putting on an act.
Make-up can really enhance the natural look if applied correctly. When applied correctly, people should be asking you: “Did you do something different today? You look like you’re glowing?”. If they keep on staring at your eyes without being able to figure out the change, then you’d probably applied it correctly.
-Florence
I’ve always compared make-up to a picture frame. A good frame compliments the picture, and it doesn’t draw attention to itself. A good application of make-up highlights strengths and downplays weaknesses but never overwhelms a woman’s face.
When the make-up becomes the face, it literally becomes the warpaint some people refer to it as. Add in orange, fake-tan skin and…well…the instant impression is some woman is looking to unleash her inner skankzilla.
I’m a sucker for a woman in heels, though, but she has to know how to walk in them. Few things are less graceful looking than a woman struggling to get from point A to point B in stilettos.
@Susan: Love that video.
That girl has a great bone structure and figure btw. As a man, those were the qualities I noticed first.
Anon: “In my experience, most men can’t tell you’re wearing makeup if it’s natural looking–they just think you look better. Like, I’ve had guys look at me and comment on how I don’t wear makeup–while I’m wearing concealer, powder, mascara, blush, and a little eyeliner. I’m always skeptical when a guy says “I like women much better without makeup!” because probably many of the women you think aren’t wearing any makeup are just wearing natural-looking makeup.”
Well, if a woman has not have a crappy looking day in a month or so, it’s quite safe to say that she wears makeup. Even the healthiest best looking women will have some sub par days every month.
@Chico
Interesting, we’ve come around to the fake vs. real debate for women. Women wearing makeup is perhaps similar to layering on seduction behaviors without having done the internal work first. It all looks good for a little while, but will fail in the morning light.
@Workshy Joe
I’ve posted this link before, but here’s the American version being spoofed:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OYpwAtnywTk&feature=related
Gotta get over there and read your chick crack post now!
Oops I see that Athlone already made the makeup/Game analogy.
I feel I am quite adept at putting on make up and agree with most here that less (or the appearance of less) is much better. I don’t wear make up to work, just powder.
Some tips:
1) Don’t ever do heavy eye make up and dark or bright lips. Pick one or the other. This rings especially true for girls with large eyes/thick lip combos. I learned the hard way it’s just too much. Red lips on very thin lips does not look good. Just accentuates what you don’t have.
2) You can get away with dark eye make-up as long as it is in neutral colors. Stay away from brights.
3) Best way to use make up is to accentuate features and spacing between features. So if your eyes are too close or too far apart you can fix that with shading. It’s not just about bringing out the features.
4) If you are to wear anything to make yourself look better it would be: Mascara, powder, neutral lip liner.
@Deidre
This is actually a good point – it is fun to get all dressed up, wear high heels and put on makeup for a big event. I doubt very many brides go down the aisle with their faces scrubbed clean – makeup does serve a purpose. I wear it sometimes, mostly to go out – I feel unattractive if I go somewhere special with a bare face. Even if my husband prefers a more natural look, he gets it that I’m going to be wearing heavier makeup for the annual holiday party.
For a woman seeking a relationship, you’re right – it makes sense to project an image of who you really are. I think a lot of women who grew up reading magazines wind up projecting an image that is getting them disqualified by men, even as their girlfriends tell them they look super hot. “Hot” is not the way to advertise your long-term availability.
@SayWhaat
I love it that you are going to experiment! Definitely report back!
Interesting. I think there may be some truth to this. As we’ve discussed many times, a guy who’s a 9 or 10 will usually happily go with a 7 for a night. Presumably this changes as the alpha approaches marriageable age. But I do think this is where a lot of the outrage that pretty women feel comes from. They’re thinking, “What the hell? That guy could have anyone, and he’s hooking up with her?”
It occurs to me that one often hears this about promiscuous women. And in this post I’ve correlated heavy makeup with sluttiness. Not sure which comes first, but perhaps they are both correlated to low self-esteem/self-respect.
LIke the overdone smokey eye, super high heels, especially with platforms, have become a caricature. However, lifting the heel accentuates the calves and lengthens the leg in a way that men definitely find attractive. You’ll never see any gathering of beautiful women, e.g. Victoria’s Secret fashion show, beauty pageant, high school prom, with women in flats. Only very slim women look great in flat shoes.
This is how I shop for makeup. I tell the rep that I’m interested in looking like I’m not even wearing it. The company best known for doing this well is Bobbi Brown. It’s also the best approach for women as they age. It’s essential to avoid the “trying too hard” look.
The best tip for make-up is to know yourself, just like fashion. What looks best on some will not look good on you.
I have my Slav father’s very hooded eyelids and spend my high school trying to use liquid liner on my top lid to achieve that sexy eye look. I just didn’t have enough eyelid for it! So it really is important to not follow trends too much, especially with someone as unique as eye/face/mouth shape.
Blake Lively is a good model for hooded eyes done right: http://www.glamour.com/beauty/blogs/girls-in-the-beauty-department/1021-blake-lively-shimmery-eye-makeup-close_bd.jpg
Leelee Sobieski also does make up very well. It looks fresh but obviously improves her looks. Also hooded eyes
http://www.thestyleandbeautydoctor.com/2010/04/from-the-vault-eye-makeup-looks-hooded-eyes/
Great example of red lips with minimal eyes (also hooded): http://www.eyemakeupidea.com/uploads/allimg/100517/2_100517122030_1.jpg
As somebody already wrote heels also make women stick out their tits and place the ass on a pedestal, plus they give a more swinging motion to the buttocks. During lunch time I just saw the Zumba teacher from my gym walking in high heels and a tight short dress. A view for gods! She looks good teaching as well, but not this good.
Depends on the alpha too. I would argue that the most alphas, the ones where it comes naturally, can also have a tendency for monogamy. Think strong silent types that value honor and duty. Of course feminism has harped all the sense of duty out of these type of men, but they are out there. My husband and father in law are of this type. Not womanizers, calm, sweet- but they are the unquestionable leaders and both men and women are just naturally impressed by them. :::sigh::: <3<3<3
Not being an asshole isn't being beta. It's being human.
BTW- what do people think of the OP's pic? Kardashian is notorious for tacky make-up and this drives home the fact. Everything is perfect except the eyes. Too much! You can achieve a smoky look without a pound of dark shadow. I would advice dark browns over blacks in most cases. Also, if you do it improperly, liner can actually make your eyes look smaller. Kim has had so much alterations on her face though, she's just looking weird these days. Like Megan Fox. What a tragedy.
Bad smoky eyes: http://img2.timeinc.net/people/i/2007/stylewatch/blog/070730/avril_lavigne_300x400.jpg
Good smoky eyes: http://becomegorgeous.com/img/users_blog/piiinkstarlite/howto_do_smokey_eyes-453.jpg
Thanks for the link. This post is cash $$ because it highlights a number of fallacies and flaws in modern female thinking (much of it pushed to them by the media):
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-The difference between a tasteful deployment of clothing and makeup and a tacky one.
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-The fact that women judge other women’s looks by a completely different, and often opposed, standard than men judge women’s attraction. (I.e. you’re “hot” if you’re done up, while men don’t see it that way.
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-The difference between male sexual attention and male relationship attention. Not all male attention is created equal. (This is the key difference young women don’t appear to grok, and so go around thinking that because a level-8 frat guy wants to bang them Saturday night that they must be an 8 too).
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-The girl next door thing is absolutely true, probably most true for greater beta types who could get a hot woman with some well-played game but doesn’t want to deal with the high-maintenance personality and intense mate guarding required.
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-The fact that what you wear and how you do your makeup, combined with the environment you put yourself in, goes a long way towards communicating what role you see yourself playing. If you show up to a ball dressed in a low-rent skirt with no makeup, you’ll look like a bum, if you’re decked out at a swanky club you’ll get typecast as looking for a hookup. Guys with good game will feed your hamster in whatever role it wants you to play, so if you dress like a ho you’ll get treated like one by a guy who wants to exploit your choice of character.
Something I just realized, regarding Jenna telling the guy that she doesn’t hook up: it’s actually a tremendous relief when that happens, because then, as the guy, you don’t have to feel bad about that fact that you haven’t “gotten far” withe the girl after 3 or 4 weeks+. Nothing’s worse than feeling that a girl won’t get deeply physical with you after about a month because you haven’t cracked her code yet, or impressed her enough yet, etc. But when the “I don’t hook up” thing is in effect, it allows the guy to not have to put his Man At Work Hardhat on – it let’s the guy breathe and smell the roses. Of course he’d still like to do all that stuff, but knowing that’s it’s not an option allows him to not beat himself up because he isn’t getting it (yet).
@Jason
I think you’re wrong there. She actually said, “He’s hot and super athletic but was so totally not a douche! Could he be the unicorn, haha?” This was a joke referring to my claim that women’s ideal – the mix of alpha and beta traits is very tough to find, especially in the early 20s. This guy is an alum, btw – he’s 24. That might explain, idk. Now, if he gets all eager and supplicating, his appeal is going to nosedive, no question. But if he has enough game (natural or otherwise) to keep her guessing a bit he should be OK. At least in week one, he’s handled himself well, LOL, she’s nervous.
This bring me back to Yohami. Start with the alpha foundation and add the beta nice traits. This is what women want. Don’t throw away the comfort behaviors, or you’re just another douchebag. That’s a short-term strategy, which is fine if that’s what you want. If you want a relationship, though, you won’t get a quality girl that way.
Haha, so true! This is such a perfect example of the different levels of pragmatism in men vs. women.
Are you reading this guys? Women like beta guys – we know who you are and we think a lot of you are cute. There’s a floor, yes. You can’t blow it. But many of you are not as far away from success as you think.
@tito
That’s true, which is why I’m saying to women – “how is this working for you?” Jenna had a real revelation, and it only occurred because she forgot to apply eye makeup. She immediately connected his approach with her lack of makeup. I asked her if she’ll go out without makeup again, and she laughed and said, “Haha, no, I hate my blonde eyelashes. But I’m going to try sticking with a very minimal look.” She cares because she wants results.
@ Karen
“From my experience, I’ve learned that men notice you only if you wear some makeup. There are times when I’ve gone out without makeup (grocery store, movies, bookstore, restaurants, etc.) and these times I am invisible to the male population. But if I put on a little makeup, BAM, I’ve caught the attention of many men in the vicinity.”
I completely agree. I was insane about makeup. I wanted to become a makeup artist, but then I got over it. But during the time in university I got dolled up, my sophomore year, guys would notice me left and right.
After being insecure for so long without makeup — I wouldnt STEP outside the house without a bit of concealer (I have terrible undereye circles) –, I’m just like OK, it’s time to go a bit easy on this. And guess what? Yeah. I’m invisible as well.
Plus, I think someone said this already but when you take off your makeup…you lower the bar of attractive males coming to you.
On a completely unrelated note, has anyone noticed a poster on Roissy called David Alexander. I followed him to his blog, and while he has some great photos (especially of trains) he comes across as very self-absorbed. I did shake my head at a statement that he wants a 9 or 10 like the PUAs are getting.
Firstly I doubt that that every PUA is getting 9s, there aren’t that many to go around, and I think people here have already pointed out that for an average man you have to have exceptional skills to elevate yourself to a level she’ll find acceptable.
Secondly, I look at very beautiful women as being like exotic cars. Lovely to look at, but you wouldn’t take them out of the garage lest someone come along and drive into them… okay maybe that’s not the perfect analogy.
Perhaps what offends me is the sense of entitlement. Nobody “deserves” another person.
Maybe I’m waffling. It is 2am and I’m going to bed. G’Night.
@Scipio
This is why the best matches are between two parties where neither is promiscuous. They’ll have a completely different sense of pace, and will be on the same page re “no sex without monogamy.” Women who don’t do the random hookup thing are very, very poor matches for alpha dudes, obviously. Sometimes those guys go after them like they’re the holy grail, which almost always burns the woman. Tom Wolfe’s I Am Charlotte Simmons has a great example of this.
God, why do I have to be late for this party?
Did you know that McDonald refuses to take suggestions from it’s customers? Do you know why that is? Because the customer knows jack shit about what he wants. McDonald’s understands that people are going to buy what they’re going to buy, and then rationalize their decision afterwards. If you want to know what sells, don’t ask the customer. Ask the successful saleswoman.
Very few of these men who say they like natural women are turned on by cellulite or hairy underarms, even though these are part of a healthy female development. And hardly any men prefer a genuine naked face over a face with “natural” makeup. “Natural” is a just another manufactured look.
Women understand this, because they see all the work that goes into keeping oneself beautiful. Men just see the final product. They assume that if a woman looks “natural” she doesn’t have much makeup on.
If the makeup works, they’ll be attracted to the woman, but they won’t know why. This is why you shouldn’t listen to men telling you how to attract men. Instead, find a woman who has experience attracting men and has learned through trial and error what works.
Some women need make up, and with out it can look 3 numbers less. A great example was a woman on my daughters college softball team. I had never seen her without her makeup. At the Big Ten Tournament a lot of people came down very early for breakfast in the hotel. There she was, sitting right across from me and I did not know who she was. This is a gal who part timed as a “BUD” girl in the summer. A 9 with makeup hardly a 6 without it.
One of my favorites, Cameron Diaz, is another one of those woman who needs makeup. As the examples giveen early in this blog, som women look better with out much makeup.
Well, there’s not much evidence in the OP, but the fact that he immediately bought into her “I don’t hook up” frame just screams beta.
The fact that he’s good looking, athletic, 24 years old and NOT a douchebag also is a giant beta indicator. Possibly a greater beta, but wait for it. I’d lay money on it.
Which is why women like betas!!!!!!!
@GudEnuf
How is cellulite part of healthy development?
That works if she knows what she’s selling. Does the heavily made up chick getting tons of alpha male attention know that she is selling “clown whore”? Does the fresh faced girl know that she is selling “doesn’t hook up?” Too many woman feel unsuccessful because they don’t even know what they’re selling, and they’re not reaching their target market.
That’s why you ask a woman who is successful. If you want to know how to find a good husband, ask a woman who found a good husband. If you want to get lots of male attention, ask a woman who gets lots of male attention.
Also: “most of the medical community doesn’t view cellulite as a disorder. Instead, it is considered a normal condition of many women and some men.”
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You’re just rationalizing. Men aren’t afraid to approach women, we just don’t like you very much anymore. To selfish, to bitchy, to unreal, etc. etc..
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Want us to care again? Treat us like human beings. Oh but you won’t,
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Exactly. Women care more about the abstract entity of “the media” or “society” rather than the human being in front of them. This is what blows me away. How alienated and how twisted does your mind have to become for this kind of behavior to even make sense at any level? To be more concerned what Cosmo Magazine thinks of you rather than what the men standing in front of you thinks of you… well it smells like narcissism.
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I suppose this is why we are living with the dumbest generation in the history of the world who won’t settle for the man they want.
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So women are dressing up to impress other women. Doesn’t anyone else notice how lesbian this is?
@GudEnuf:
1. In my book, cellulite is a negative and underarm hair is neutral (within reason).
2. You may well be right on makeup; after all I’ve never seen a makeup vs. no makeup lineup in the same style as the above and certainly not of people I know (hell, I haven’t even heard of two of the people on the lineup above), and I have no idea how widely/heavily makeup is used.
3. McDonald’s is a rather unfortunate choice of example. I don’t eat at McDonald’s, and the analogy to the present topic is hardly flattering. I mean, come on–obesity lawsuits? “Billions and billions served?” The Dollar Menu? If I were female–them’s fighting words!
“I.e. you’re “hot” if you’re done up,”
I have a certain morning commute crush, whom I’ve seen maybe 10 times on the train in the last 2 months. A female co-worker of mine happened to be on my train the same morning as Commute Crush Girl. I’d already told her about this really attarctive girl I’ve just started running into, and while we were on the train that morning, I pointed her out to my co-worker. Commute Crush was completely covered up with her hair in a pony tail, normal, sort of drabby office outfit on, and the “no make-up” make-up look we’re talking about here.
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I asked my co-worker what she thought and co-worker basically said Commute Girl was just eh. To me, this girl is drop dead gorgeous – easily a 8.5, maybe higher. Co-worker said “well, she wasn’t wearing anything spectatcular or anything…” As if I’m judging her beauty by her outfit or hairstyle. *That’s* the stuff women frequently judge other women by, that we men don’t actively think or care about.
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Perhaps women do this because many/most/every woman wants to believe that she can make herself more beautiful by wearing the right outfit, or doing her hair the right way, etc. They don’t want to believe that true beauty is evident almost regardless of how un-glamorous a woman appears to be, because then that erases the hope that any given woman is prettier than she might feel.
Have to agree. Adam Carolla had a rant about Playboy Magazine where in the past the centerfolds all looked like the “girl next door/sweet college girl” (albeit with great measurements), and nowadays they all look like strippers.
That may be fine for self-pleasuring material, but hardly fantasy inducing.
My husband loves when I wear mascara and a light shade of lipstick.
Have you seen this? Its funny
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OYpwAtnywTk
I didn’t mean to post it twice.
I agree completely. When a girl wears too much makeup, she looks like a whore advertising easy entry into her vagina. Some makeup is fine, even preferable for most situations.
I do like waking up with my girl and seeing her without makeup though. I’m not sure why, but I like that natural look in the morning.
Badger Hut
Here’s a newsflash for women from me, on behalf of men in general: we don’t give a shit about fashion.
I have to disagree with this. Even men who don’t really care about fashion will discount a girl with a bad fashion sense. Beyond a certain threshold, most men don’t care how fashionable a girl is, but most men will notice if a girl is below that threshold. EVERY girl with a bad fashion sense whom I’ve ever met turned out to have an unacceptably masculine personality, even if her figure was very feminine. A girl with bad fashion sense is like a man without upper body strength. Something is wrong with that person.
Women and men judge women’s looks differently because they have different purposes.
Women dress and put on makeup primarily to compete for status with other women. Most fashions are markers for prosperity and status.
Take suntans, for example. When most people worked in the fields suntans were unfashionable. Now that most people work indoors suntans are fashionable despite all the warnings about skin cancer. Having a tan implies that you have leasure time. Tanning booths would actually make suntans unfashionable if everyone could use them.
Following the fashions implies that you can afford to. This applies to makeup and clothing as well as shoes and handbags.
I think women have a strong drive to compete for status. In tribal or small town society low status females are prevented from marrying the best men and get very little help from other women.
Men look for markers of youth, health, and fertility in women. They also want responsibility and fidelity. We don’t care about her place in the female dominance hierarchy nearly as much.
I don’t understand the “untouchable Ice Queen” act. Do guys enjoy when girls stand around and sneer at everything?
My guess: They confuse confidence with arrogance, “classiness” with snobbery, “high standards” with spoiled-brattism, and self respect with narcissism. Even then, there’s likely several other comparisions I left off but can’t think of at this time. Plus, they’re worried about what the “right” crowd thinks of them if they “lower their standards”. Ultimately, it’s about standing about no values higher than their own self-interest (maintaining the “right” image, impressing their friends, and so forth).
@GudEnuf:
Cellulite?
I’m not turned on by it, but its not so dreadful either.
Under-arm hair?
French and German chicks. Rrrrrrr!
Make up?
Only enough to cover blemishes. The Clown-Whore look and the Cowardly-Lion-Wizard-of-Oz look is just not attractive.
Fake tan, eyelashes or nails?
Makes me think that the girl actually has a dick down there.
I agree with those who say make-up isn’t bad, but you have to know how to use it. I prefer less make-up on my girfriend because I don’t the taste of it when I kiss her cheek.
Dream Puppy had some great thoughts and to them I would also add, the lighting you’re going to be seen in makes a difference. I’ve had make-up done for televison and movie work and it looked terrible in the mirror (my face was fricking’ ORANGE! WTF?), but on camera, it looked normal.
Similary, in bars and clubs with low lights when guys are seeing women from a moderate distance, a little more make-up can help the face stand out a little bit more. The downside is, what looks great from a dance floor away can look overdone up close as most of us guys who have been to a strip club can attest.
Come on Sue, I think you need another dose of the Red Pill. I understand this is a thesis of yours, but really? Do they also like being put on a pedestal? They like some beta behaviours. SOME.
That’s why whenever a female friend tries to tell me about a woman that is hot or not hot, I ask her if she (my friend) wants to fuck this woman. If the answer is no, then she doesn’t get an opinion.
I don’t wear makeup because I don’t like the way it feels. And I have never had many guys cold approach me. It happens maybe once every few years.
But there are some great advantages to the natural, dressed down look. Other girls are not competitive with me, and other guys don’t think I’m flirtatious and are relaxed around me.
When I want to look “better” I just smile widely. It works pretty well. I’ve seen pictures of myself where I’m not smiling, and I look terrible. Smiling is more effective than makeup, imo.
@Jason
Agreed. That’s all I was really trying to say. Look, if a guy is having no luck because of beta characteristics, he’s obviously too beta. If a guy can get through a week with a hot girl wondering when she’ll hear back, maybe he’s a good amount of beta.
All women’s fashion, whether cosmetic or clothing, is designed to make the female appear young and fertile to males.
strongly disagree. Susan, you’ve fallen into someone else’s frame.
We sometimes dress ourselves to look authoritative, trustworthy, artistic, or respectful. We dress ourselves as pastors, politicians, Moms, or dissidents. Cosmetics and fashion are NOT all about snagging men.
I personally love makeup. I don’t wear it every day, but I own lots. I like to not feel like I have war paint on so I use a light hand and neutral colors. Been experimenting more with brighter, more intense colors cos the hubby gets a kick out of occasional “glam”. Most days though, it’s wash face, apply moisturizer with spf and go about my day. OTC has yet to0 express a preference for me with or without makeup.
So women are dressing up to impress other women. Doesn’t anyone else notice how lesbian this is?
Perhaps women do this because many/most/every woman wants to believe that she can make herself more beautiful by wearing the right outfit, or doing her hair the right way, etc. They don’t want to believe that true beauty is evident almost regardless of how un-glamorous a woman appears to be, because then that erases the hope that any given woman is prettier than she might feel.
I will like to offer my input about make up from another culture. Most Latin men like their women with make up, because they consider a woman wearing make up a sign of femininity and self care, meaning she is approachable. In my culture only lesbians or fundamentalist women not wear make up (or perm their hair) so is a good indication of what side you belong to. I remember before I entered modeling that many of the few guys that actually approached me did it because they though I was evangelical for not wearing make up and wearing my hair on a ponytail, thus one of the reasons I took self make up classes was to sent the right sings to the right kind of men.
Also sexual competition on my country is criminal (specially if you are dating a foreigner) if you don’t wear make up when you are hanging out with your boyfriend/husband (not all the time but specially when you go out on a date) the message you are sending to other women (and his male friends) is that you don’t care enough about this man to try to look the best you can for him, so some women actually will try an approach him thinking you won’t notice because you don’t care or you are an idiot and they have greater chances to steal the guy given that they will look more feminine.
So me dating my gringo husband placed me between two uncomfortable places on my country. Not wearing make up ever to please him and wearing make to avoid having to kill some slut :p (j/k).
What I usually did was just go for the natural look, no foundation but I did my eyes and rosy cheeks, and in case I saw too much competition I had a brighter color lipstick on my purse and some blush to quickly reapply on the bathroom so they get I wasn’t going to let anyone take him without a fight, also a lot of PDA which I usually do anyway but I just upped that a little bit.
So probably things are a bit different here, but then again I saw a woman on a plane totally trying to establish eye contact with my husband after applying make up so who knows if at least some women get the same code of make up vs no make up, YMMV.
The only time heels make sense is on the dance floor. Worn anywhere else and I think you’ve got mental disorders. You can’t do shit in them. Though that doesn’t seem to stop women from pretending that they can drive in them anyways. What’s the point of making yourself even more helpless in the event of an emergency physical response? Need to run, jump, lift something heavy, hit the clutch/brake? No can do. Don’t worry, maybe a big strong man can sprint after a child tottering towards the street while you clack away.
Do you know any model or Latina? When I was modeling every week I could walk miles and carry 50 pounds boxes wearing then and my short friends were even better used heels all the time so they never had any issues with them, heck one of them went hiking with us on 4 inches thick heels. Its kind of a second set of feet, for some women specially the ones under 5 foot tall.
“So women are dressing up to impress other women. Doesn’t anyone else notice how lesbian this is?”
possibly. this and other ‘alternative lifestyles’ are being heavily promoted at a break-neck pace. it may not be that though. possibly more about arrogance. it certainly has nothing to do with the men who are merely props in all of this.
@Stephanie R
Please come teach me how to walk properly in heels. i actually love the darn things, but am a trifle ungainly if they aren’t wide heels. anything that has a narrow heel is a challenge. I wore them in my teen/young adult years, but 3 kids and many years later i don’t quite remember.
Please come teach me how to walk properly in heels. i actually love the darn things, but am a trifle ungainly if they aren’t wide heels. anything that has a narrow heel is a challenge. I wore them in my teen/young adult years, but 3 kids and many years later i don’t quite remember.
I will try and remember some tips, the thing is that once you stop practicing the body does their best to go back to their natural no heeled ways.
When I started modeling I tried to get the highest possible heels and practice at least one hour everyday at home. Draw a straight line on the floor and practice walking over it with your body upright, chest up, tummy sucked in, first the base of the foot then the heel, and also try to do the housework (vacuuming, laundry, the dishes…) in heels for as long as you can, that way the body will slowly get used to them again and if your husband has a fetish with high heels he will enjoy the sight of you doing normal housework in them so bonus boner for you
I will see if I can find a youtube video about it…but maybe you should leave me your e-mail. Guys here probably don’t need to see that.
Something I just realized, regarding Jenna telling the guy that she doesn’t hook up: it’s actually a tremendous relief when that happens, because then, as the guy, you don’t have to feel bad about that fact that you haven’t “gotten far” withe the girl after 3 or 4 weeks+. Nothing’s worse than feeling that a girl won’t get deeply physical with you after about a month because you haven’t cracked her code yet, or impressed her enough yet, etc.
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Yeah…but the thing is there are girls that say that and MEAN IT and there are girls that just say it so they don’t seem “slutty” but really do hook up. The one thing that has got to be the absolute worst (hasn’t happened to me but I have known of it) is to take that chill, slow down path to physicality and properly date and court a girl “who doesn’t hook up” meanwhile she is hooking up on the side. In that case, the guy is just a dupe getting played. So with girls who “don’t hook up” I think you have to take it a step more and try to ascertain if that is the “real deal” or just a BS line.
Yeah…but the thing is there are girls that say that and MEAN IT and there are girls that just say it so they don’t seem “slutty” but really do hook up. The one thing that has got to be the absolute worst (hasn’t happened to me but I have known of it) is to take that chill, slow down path to physicality and properly date and court a girl “who doesn’t hook up” meanwhile she is hooking up on the side. In that case, the guy is just a dupe getting played. So with girls who “don’t hook up” I think you have to take it a step more and try to ascertain if that is the “real deal” or just a BS line.
Heh one of my player friends told me this line, that the worst thing than a woman that doesn’t puts out for you, is a woman that puts out with everyone but you!
Men aren’t afraid to approach women,
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This is pure, unadulterated nonsense. The term “approach anxiety” didn’t just come out of nowhere. Most men have some level of fear/anxiety about approaching attractive women. And certain looks with makeup and clothing can make it more intimidating for the guy.
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FWIW, Mac is high quality stuff.
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Stay away from the red lip thing…Charlize and Megan above in 2nd picture. Softer lips are better.
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I will second the notion though that most of the guys saying no make-up is better probably aren’t realizing it isn’t no make-up they are seeing but a more subdued, “natural” look but made-up nonetheless.
Thats so absurd, unless you meant “real men”
Haha, Paige, that video should make its way to the OP. Its so illustrative.
Women and men judge women’s looks differently because they have different purposes.
Women dress and put on makeup primarily to compete for status with other women. Most fashions are markers for prosperity and status.
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An observation. The more you witness behaviors by men and women the more you realize that each sex DOES A LOT OF THINGS that they themselves are attracted never realizing it doesn’t matter to the opposite sex. In your example, women dress to signal status because male status is important to them so they probably instinctively think their status as represented by their clothes will help attract men when in reality it doesn’t matter much.
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Here is an example of the exact opposite. And that is the widespread male working out:
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http://www.amazon.com/Adonis-Complex-Secret-Crisis-Obsession/dp/0684869101
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I’m a gym rat and have been since 21. I’ll admit it. I started working out to get laid. Now the interesting thing is I think many guys start for this very reason because they think hitting a certain level of physical attractiveness is the key because that is what attracts them to women and the ironic thing is that pure physical apperance really isn’t that critical to being sexually attractive. Funny little thing here of self-revelation, but I remember before knowing anything at all about Game and alpha personality characteristics thinking to myself at times “I just need my biceps a 1″ bigger and more defined abs”…and then I’ll get chicks every single week with little effort.
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Interestingly, men began to emulate the made-up female image with the metrosexual look, and you see the caricature of that in the sort of Jersey Shore look of overly tanned, “the right T-shirts”, etc.
Thats so absurd, unless you meant “real men”
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You don’t think that every guy has at least just a tiny amount of approach anxiety?
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I don’t know…so I’m asking. I mean..I think there are guys who are literally terrified to approach a hot woman but I would think even the most confident guy has just a little butterflies in the stomach but once you just do it and start the interaction it goes away right away.
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No shit. The problems between men and women could clear up so much quicker if women actually treaded us as though we were human beings.
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Ok, so you and your friends are all terrified of the big bad vaginas. But the rest of us aren’t.
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Really? I find the ones who are the hottest to be the easiest to approach because typically they are also the friendliest. Well at least they are frinedly to me.
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When I say “hottest” I don’t mean the ones who women think are pretty and I don’t mean the ones who think of themselves as pretty. So Kim Kardashian, Megan Fox and the other fakers who are the product of the Hollywood magic that turns ugly women into “beautiful” women need not apply.
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Think I’m wrong? Most women who are chosen as models are picked because they resemble teenage boys, which is what the gay men who run the fashion industry find sexually attractive.
Mike C, of course, but Im pointing the absurd. If you add “real men”, at least its a projection, rather than a lie.
Sometimes when I see a reeeeaaaally beautiful girl I steel feel an urge to hide somewhere. Before Im able to turn that into available energy, there´s fear.
Here are all the so-called “hotties“, but without their makeup and good lighting.
Ok, so you and your friends are all terrified of the big bad vaginas. But the rest of us aren’t.
Really? I find the ones who are the hottest to be the easiest to approach because typically they are also the friendliest. Well at least they are frinedly to me.
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I’d respond in more detail if I didn’t think you are just a big bullshitter.
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A “lie”? Give me a break. Ok so you’re afraid of women too and somehow that’s supposed to mean that all other men are afraid of them as well. Sure buddy, whatever you say.
Ohh men’s fight!
*grabs popcorn*
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Don’t act like a tool and they’ll be friendly to you too!
@Walenty Lisek, getting the more comfortable the prettier the girl is, say, way more relaxed with a perfect 10 than with a 7, is something Im getting to recently. Its like the pinnacle of being good with women for me.
If you have ALWAYS felt like that, you are either a natural or a gay, in any case, more power to you!
damn the quotes
Yeah, so you either mean “alphas, confident men, jerks, dominant, real men, studs” or “asexual harmless herbs”. Either way you are right! Not acting like a tool is the way to go.
Interesting, we’ve come around to the fake vs. real debate for women. Women wearing makeup is perhaps similar to layering on seduction behaviors without having done the internal work first. It all looks good for a little while, but will fail in the morning light.
I can see how that analogy would work.
More accurately, I think the best comparison to your example would be a girl who gets dolled up and spends an hour doing her hair/make-up and fitting into a skimpy outfit that is way too small for her. Then she goes to the club and acts like she’s hot shit. Believe me, these girls are out there.
She’s better off focusing on her physical health. Going out and binge drinking 3 times a week is only going to drop her SMV even further. No amount of make-up or designer clothes can make up for that.
Sorry to sound like a fitness nut, but I really think we downplay the importance of physical health here. I notice that even people’s facial features tend to improve by a few attractiveness points after they drop the excess fat. Now, there are exceptions where some people are just ugly because they lost in the genetic lottery. I feel bad for those people (especially the females, who it matters more), I really do. But they are a small percentage of the population.
I’m a gym rat and have been since 21. I’ll admit it. I started working out to get laid. Now the interesting thing is I think many guys start for this very reason because they think hitting a certain level of physical attractiveness is the key because that is what attracts them to women and the ironic thing is that pure physical apperance really isn’t that critical to being sexually attractive. Funny little thing here of self-revelation, but I remember before knowing anything at all about Game and alpha personality characteristics thinking to myself at times “I just need my biceps a 1″ bigger and more defined abs”…and then I’ll get chicks every single week with little effort.
I won’t lie. This has always at least been in the back of my mind when working out. Granted, I was also in a competitive sport and have a bit of a competitive personality to begin with, so I had other reasons as well.
Today, I just feel it’s necessary for self-actualization, energy levels, and confidence (the real gina-tingler). I always get excited about having a new athletic notch under my belt, giving me more confidence.
But you’re right. It isn’t everything. And if you are CLUELESS about game or coming across as SOCIALLY dominant, then it’s nothing.
I still think it helps give you a leg up on first impressions, all else being equal. Ladies, am I wrong?
I sometimes wonder if it’s the opposite. Many ladies state a pretty clear opposition to “pretty boys” on their Plenty of fish profiles. Is it because they automatically think athletic guys are assholes and players in the same way some of us guys think guidettes are sluts and attention-whores?
Or if you’re athletic, do they have higher expectations for your social dominance that they wouldn’t have for a stereotypical “nerd”? If you don’t meet those expectations, is there something especially wrong with you because you SHOULD be more “confident”?
I still think it helps give you a leg up on first impressions, all else being equal. Ladies, am I wrong?
The thing is that this varies among the ladies. The point missing her is that if you are not a girl’s type no amount of self confidence, money or social dominance will change that. That is why oneitis is so dangerous if you are not into a girl’s radar you are wasting your time. I mean obviously the population of women falling for game are a lot more than the other way around but at the end of the day, is her choice, always. Men display, women select.
@ Scipio Africanus:
You wouldn’t happen to be a redditor, would you?
I still think it helps give you a leg up on first impressions, all else being equal.
From personal experience I would say yes, absolutely. It just isn’t the ticket to the ride if a lot of other stuff is missing.
I sometimes wonder if it’s the opposite. Many ladies state a pretty clear opposition to “pretty boys” on their Plenty of fish profiles. Is it because they automatically think athletic guys are assholes and players in the same way some of us guys think guidettes are sluts and attention-whores?
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I think that is just self-protective BS, but my experience is that some women might not like a guy who is to into his appearance. I think there is a difference between a “pretty boy” and just a good-looking guy with a good body. I really think pretty boy almost starts to touch on an almost feminine level of interest in looks. Note the use of the word “pretty”. She isn’t saying she doesn’t want a sexy guy or buff guy or handsome guy but a “Pretty” guy.
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Or if you’re athletic, do they have higher expectations for your social dominance that they wouldn’t have for a stereotypical “nerd”? If you don’t meet those expectations, is there something especially wrong with you because you SHOULD be more “confident”?
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I think this is absolutely the case. I think it has to do with congruence between demonstrated personality and outward appearance. I think when those two don’t match, it sets something off in girls to drop you. Frankly, I think I had this problem for a good while years back. I would pull a good amount of numbers from hot girls, and have a ton of date 1s that ended up as last dates.
Gosh, I just love when men check me out and women in the vicinity sneer at me. I can just tell they’re thinking: “She’s wearing yoga pants and no makeup! What does she have that I don’t?”
It took me years to realize all the mean snide comments I used to hear from other girls was just their attempts to validate their own beauty. “You’re pretty, but you look bad in the color blue.” “You’re pretty, but you’re too short. Guys don’t like petite girls. Supermodels are tall.”
I’m very sensitive so that kind of stuff used to bother me a lot. Now I take subtle pleasure in knowing my Mom was right: “Don’t listen to them, they’re just jealous.”
Alpha’s are rarely 10′s. More like beefed up 6′s. They’re the male equivalent of butterfaces. In fact, a hot Alpha is probably a lot less effective at game, ’cause he’d contrast too much with the average female 6. “Dude, why are you going after the ugly girls?” Also, do women really want to date men with a significantly higher number? A delusion female 7 will consider male 7′s a 10. When a real 10 walks by, they’ll get intimidated.
Beta guys who post here, take a good look in the mirror. There’s a high likelihood that you’re hotter than most Alphas.
For example, right now I’m crushing on a hot Beta that has no idea he’s handsome! He’s very tall, has a nice jawline, and the biggest bright greenish hazel eyes….
I try my best to flirt with him but I can sense his hesitation. Like, he’s waiting for me to lose interest once an Alpha walks past or something. Fortunately for him I find his shyness endearing so I’ll keep flirting with him. I’m also attracted to the fact that he’s gorgeous – if he was an Alpha I’d probably let him game me.
@jz
Sorry, the spam filter caught your comment, not sure why.
I didn’t say that women dress only to appeal young and fertile to men. Obviously, that’s not the case. As you say, we have different looks for different occasions, different uniforms for the different roles in our lives, and we often choose based on our moods. Many women enjoy playing with makeup and trying new looks.
What I said:
Meaning the fashion and cosmetics industries are selling youth and beauty. Even the most practical clothing, e.g. gym clothes, is designed to show the female form.
@Butterfly Flower
I can’t help myself, I gotta call you out. Alphas are only beefed up 6s? There are many reasons why this is wrong. First of all, a man’s value does not come from his looks alone, it comes from the sum of his looks, personality traits, interestingness, and dominance. Having good looks gets you an audition only, one can still ruin it from there. I can speak to this because I used to ruin shit a lot in the early moments before I wised up. Secondly, all the naturals I know would easily be above 7 on a looks scale, minus one dude I know. Thirdly, “an Alpha is probably a lot less effective at game”?? Really? What makes him an Alpha in the first place is his Game, learned or natural.
Your hot Beta that is shy? Two things: If he is that hot, he can do no wrong whatever his level of Game and is by default an Alpha; and, how would things change if he started talking to you all the time and telling you everything about him instead of inadvertently playing the mysterious card?
@Chico
working out is something every man should do regardless of women. you do it because it is necessary to be in shape for a whole host of reasons. it is not about game.
@ECT
That sounds fun. As I recall you are a busy mom. When my kids were younger, my husband welcomed any look that was different from my “mom togs.” It was important to set aside time for us as a couple, and changing into different clothes and makeup helped.
Like you, lotion with spf is the everyday approach, though I have liked tinted moisturizer recently. I’m not used to wearing eye makeup during the day – if I do for some reason, I wind up rubbing my eyes and smudging it.
collegeslacker–
I completely disagree with you about no lipstick.
Saracen.
But do agree with light and not heavy cartoonish.
No, that’s not it. It’s about competition among women. We dress up to compete, to signal who’s drawing the most male attention. As Stephenie said, women also look good when they are with their man – to ward off any potential threats. It’s probably similar to guys impressing one another at the gym, or with an amazing physique. Being the one who looks the best brings status.
What??? Ha, I can’t even imagine this!
What? You never played naughty housekeeper or french maid?
Then I must be one terribly shallow individual. I don’t care about “interestingness” or charm.
I want my guy to be physically handsome. I don’t mind a shy guy who blushes when I talk to him. As long as he resembles Rock Hudson or the Marlboro Man.
He’s not playing the mysterious card. He’s playing the “there’s a hot girl flirting with me, I can’t articulate!” card.
If he was more outgoing and responded to my flirtation from the start, he still wouldn’t be an Alpha because I had to approach him and initiate the flirting.
& if he was an Alpha and approached me with swagger, I’d probably let him game me. Boy is he gorgeous.
I disagree with this. There are tons of handsome beta guys, and tons of ugly alphas. Really good looking betas start off strong but can’t sustain the attraction. They get eager, or too devoted, and then they fail shit tests. I’ve seen many good looking guys go down in flames within a month of attracting the hottest girl on campus.
Oh, you are talking about seduction! I thought you were saying that you clean the house in heels all the time!
Oh, you are talking about seduction! I thought you were saying that you clean the house in heels all the time!
Is a bit of both I mean if she needs to practice for half and hour or so why no win something extra?
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But you’re drawing the attention of other women, not of men when in “clown whore makeup” mode.
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Let me break this down for what is actually happening: Women going to a party get ready by entering “clown whore makeup” mode. At the party women look around and judge each other on how they look. Woman with the look that most women think is “hottest” / “prettiest” / whatever is winner. The opinion of the men doesn’t matter at all.
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If this really was about the Judgement of Paris, you would just ask and perhaps offer a bribe.
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Or, he’s just not that into you.
“women dress to signal status because male status is important to them so they probably instinctively think their status as represented by their clothes will help attract men when in reality it doesn’t matter much.”
This is partly true and partly untrue. I’m constantly surprised by what my husband finds attractive on me. He likes my hair pulled back into a ponytail, and likes to see me wear gym workout clothes or long skirts, and a flowing shirt that is not tight in any way. It’s completely different from the typical model or celebrity look presented in the media.
So men do have certain clothes that they like to see on women, although it does differ from man to man based on personal preferences. Some men love high heels while other men don’t care for it. Some men love tight and form fitting miniskirts while other men prefer sundresses. It’s not about “status” via fashion but more about preferences. So what a single girl should do is experiment.
So men do have certain clothes that they like to see on women, although it does differ from man to man based on personal preferences.Some men love high heels while other men don’t care for it. Some men love tight and form fitting miniskirts while other men prefer sundresses. It’s not about “status” via fashion but more about preferences.
My husband loathes empire waist. He says it looks like you stole a little girl’s dress, he also hates heels.
So what a single girl should do is experiment.
I think a single girl should try to find what clothes are more flattering for her figure and what colors for flattering for her skin. Looking better should work as a general rule for all men. Although my husband hates empire waist my favorite blouse was an empire waist and he didn’t noticed till I pointed it, but the blouse was a nice empire waist cut and in a color that flattered my skin (I’m a summer so I buy winter/spring colors) and he loved the blouse on me. So I really think finding what works for you as a woman should be enough to look pretty and then she can find out the specifics once she finds a gentleman that she is going to be dressing for. Men don’t know the details/reason when you look good, IMO.
working out is something every man should do regardless of women. you do it because it is necessary to be in shape for a whole host of reasons. it is not about game.
For sure. It affects everything. When you put on the excess fat, you feel like shit. You can’t wear your nicer clothes (i.e. tight-fitting shirts), you have low energy levels throughout the day, and you radiate less confidence. Even for interviews, it does wonders. I know because I’ve had severe seasonal weight fluctuations ever since I started university (luckily I don’t lose muscle).
There’s nothing like going for a fast run through the woods or pumping iron. In a sedentary, beta-ized culture that tries so hard to reject masculinity in men, it’s great to connect with your inner animal once in a while.
I disagree with this. There are tons of handsome beta guys, and tons of ugly alphas. Really good looking betas start off strong but can’t sustain the attraction. They get eager, or too devoted, and then they fail shit tests.
You know, your gender really sucks for pulling this kind of crap.
I bet 95% of the male population has never even heard of a shit test. They probably think it has to do with checking to see if your bowel movements are healthy.
Looking back, I can see how many shit tests I’ve failed by thinking logically and assuming females operate on the same moral compass. So I responded the same way, as if a man were to act like a bitch…which isn’t the same as not having a backbone, but it’s still a fail. In reality, you have to show that you don’t care, period. It brings me back to an old Roissy post about caring vs. uncaring assholes, and why men should aim to be the latter.
@Chico
good comment. as susan said we must “rise above our natures.” this must be repeated until it sinks in and people adjust, or are made to adjust, their behavior accordingly. yes we all know about all this game stuff. but we must use our higher selves to aim for a better more stable society, not the third world country these ladies are steering us toward. game works but it is a temporary measure. ultimately it serves to perpetuate the system. the fittest are being bypassed for the popculturally fittest. that spells 3rd world. actually worse because a lot of 3rd world people actually take measures into their own hands often, while the “alphas” here will do nothing to defend their way of life.
@Chico (again)
as far as what you said about working out, yes. it is about you and the feeling of connection to your primal maleness.
the fittest are being bypassed for the popculturally fittest.
This is a really good quote.
Sadly, 3rd world status is what happens when status alone trumps substance. Sadly, what gives status nowadays is not what gave status in the 50s. Consider how a “real man” was potrayed by Atticus Finch in To Kill a Mockingbird or George Bailey in It’s a Wonderful Life. Now, our male role models are 50 Cent, T.I., and a bunch of feminist women who wish to be men. Western civilization is doomed.
@tito
Couldn’t agree more. But then no one is strong enough to bypass their nature right? This system is designed to put a lot of pressure on winning winning fast without paying attention that you are only winning shit painted as gold.
Western civilization is doomed.
You can say that again. Oh well like my husband says maybe this is our Dinosaur event and a few million years a less idiotic species takes over and wonder why we went extinct…Maybe we should bury a time capsule for them.
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Not being a guy, you have no idea when you catch our attention. You are confusing “being invisible” with “being approached”.
Well, it appears that many gentleman here strongly dislike makeup….. so that leads me to wonder… am I doing wrong by my little girl when I let her play with my makeup? She loves to have me put a little eyeshadow on her, and she gets to pick the color, and she loves to try my lipsticks/glosses. She loves to pick out her dresses, and loves jewelry too
I have wonderful memories of playing with my sister-in-law’s makeup when I was a little girl. I pretty much attacked her anytime she was at the house and she usually had an awesome assortment of Avon stuff and she’d patiently apply things, let me take it off, try something else. She took me shopping for makeup, clothes and the like. It was so much fun, and something I remember with great happiness.
Susan, this is so true. I rarely wear makeup, but I find when I use heavier makeup, ie red lipstick and cat eye eyeliner, I attract more losers.
Last night I went out wearing zero makeup. I mean, absolutely none. Recently I’ve had mascara and lipgloss in my daily routine always. But I mean….no makeup. Whatsoever. not even chapstick.
And I hit it off with a very attractive guy.
I find that I attract the same amount of guys whether I’m wearing jeans and a tshirt or leather pants and heels. It doesn’t matter. Last night I was maybe a tad sexier with shorts and flat knee high boots, but compared to other girls at the party, I was plain. My hair was pulled back, when normally I let it down and rock the waves.
yeah. I attract better guys when I’m dressed down. Even wearing glasses!
@ECT
The question of it being good or bad is answered in what you’re teaching her. Why does mommy have and put on makeup?
Have you considered making clothes and jewelry instead of simply buying it? The things you can do with a sewing machine, hammer, pliers, and a jeweler’s torch are amazing. (Google: Silver moon necklace. I think it’s made by medievalbridalfashions.com ) I just think you could offer an even greater bonding experience for the dollar if done well. Plus, you get to keep the skills.
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