wildbluegirl.deviantart.com
I worked so hard for that first kiss
wildbluegirl.deviantart.com
And a heart don’t forget something like that
Tim McGraw
A note from Robinson:
Hi Susan,
My ex girlfriend broke up with me 6 months ago (we dated 3 months) and unfortunately I am still emotionally suffering from the break up. We are very different people, although we did have a mutual interest in wildlife biology. She enjoys getting wasted, smoking weed and hooking up (she likes the attention). I have avoided drugs throughout most of my life and have never hooked up. Our differing values were not compatible and are what led to the break up.
As a male, I’m embarrassed (sarcasm) to say that at the mighty age of 24, I lost my virginity to this girl. I was brought up on the values to seek meaningful relationships and I do believe I achieved that in this case. The problem is that I can’t seem to get past this girl who I don’t even want to be with anymore. Since I lost my virginity to her and put a lot of effort in the relationship, I still can’t seem to shake the feeling of a sort of innate obligation to take care of her, be there for her and love her. Why do I still feel that way when I really want nothing to do with her? Could there be a biological explanation? Or do you think its more likely to be environmental?
My relationships in the past did not involve sex and I never felt that strongly about them. I hate to say it, but after being emotionally drained by this relationship, I have the urge to fall for the temptation of hooking up with no strings attached. I know its not the road I should go and I know I will not do it, but why do I all of a sudden have this urge when I have resisted it for so long?
I’m curious to know if this happens to other guys who lose their virginity in a relationship. They have a relationship, lose their virginity, relationship ends, the cost of being in a relationship is too high and emotionally draining, they resort to hooking up. What do you think?
Hi Robinson,
I’m sorry you’re feeling stuck and sort of obsessed about a relationship that ended. I know that’s a terrible state to be in, and maddening when you know that you don’t even want to be with her. You don’t say who ended the relationship, but I’m going to assume that she was less invested overall than you were.
It sounds like she was your first real love, and you sealed the deal with sex in a way that was extremely meaningful and important to you. Having had prior relationships and held off until you were 24, it’s not surprising that she would hold a special place in your heart. Even after a bad breakup, when we don’t like the person anymore and may even disrespect them, it’s common to long for the old relationship, back when it was new and wonderful and seemed pretty close to perfect.
You’re troubled by continuing feelings of obligations and even love towards her, even as she clearly repels you in some ways. There are several reasons why you might be having these feelings, including any combination of the following:
1. You liked who you were when you were together.
I’m sure that the two of you as a couple raised some eyebrows – a case of total opposites attracting. The idealistic and uncorrupted male with the drunken party girl is an unusual pairing, and I imagine that was novel and exciting for both of you. Plus you were really into her, which made you feel great and fun and generous and sexy.
2. You loved that feeling of being head over heels, so that even as your value differences became more obvious, you held on.
The relationship, while troubled, was still so much more than you’d ever experienced with another woman. Perhaps you were afraid you wouldn’t find this kind of intensity again. Or you were hopeful that she might change.
3. You projected an idealized version of who she was, and that’s who you really fell for.
That’s who you miss today, and part of you still wishes it could work out. From your letter, it sounds like you recognize her need for attention and validation from men, and you openly admit she is a lush and a pothead. It sounds like you romanticized her when you first met.
You may have even thought she needed rescuing. If you went into the relationship with the idea of taking care of her, supporting her and loving her, you must have been frustrated when she didn’t allow you to do that fully. That could only have worked if she did indeed share your values, and wanted to live them, with some help from you. Instead, it sounds like she very much maintained her independence and her old ways.
4. You realize she fell for an idealized version of you as well.
You may have found it difficult to keep her interest or sustain the attraction over time, as the differences between you became more evident. You had not only different values, but also the very different histories that went along with that.
The dynamic would have given her the power in the relationship, which she no doubt enjoyed. She had the sexual experience, and probably some cynicism from the no-strings sex, or at least the ability to compartmentalize her feelings. In a prior era, you would have had the power by deciding whether you could accept her past indiscretions, but today she is the one living the “cool” lifestyle. You held fast to your own principles, which is commendable, but again, your way is not the easy way, and it’s not the way most young people live.
5. You feel humiliated by the rejection.
The end of a relationship is a failure, there’s no getting around it, and it’s always painful, even if it’s what you want or know is best. It’s easy to internalize that and feel like the one responsible. It takes two no matter how bad things get, so you do have some responsibility. My guess is that if you have any sense that you were not “bad boy” enough for her, you will look inward and blame yourself further, even though it’s clear that you are the one more oriented towards relationships.
Whether you can relate to any of these possibilities, or have other theories of your own, understanding them won’t make you stop longing to take care of her and love her right away, but gaining some insight into your own emotional triggers can make you more rational and ready to move on.
Now to the second part of your question – Do guys who lose their virginity in a relationship and become disillusioned when it ends then want to start having no-strings hookups?
I hope that some of the regular commenters here will chime in and offer some thoughts on this question. I haven’t received this question before, but I can’t imagine that it’s unusual to feel that way, particularly if you had to let go of some long-held beliefs about women and sex.
On the other hand, perhaps the experience was so costly and emotionally draining because you were not with the right woman.
You may have specific regrets about how you handled things, or you may just need some time before you are ready for another commitment. Whether you should pursue short-term casual sex at this point depends on how congruent that is with your nature and your needs. Frankly, I don’t see how becoming more like her makes sense when it was her values that drove a wedge between you.
There is a saying in Game: when you get really stuck on one woman and she disappoints you, you should go FTOW (f*ck 10 other women) to get her out of your system. I’d hate to see you go that route, but if you do I urge you to be up front and open with your partners.
Robinson, what are you looking for? What would make you happy? Be honest with yourself about that, and then figure out the most effective strategy. That process begins with thinking about how you will choose differently next time around.
Best,
Susan
Readers, help me out here. What are your thoughts for Robinson?
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This dude needs an emergency intervention. Someone needs to hand him a dozen pack of Trojans and firm instructions to nail at least 5 chicks within the next few months.
The longer this whinny sentimentality regarding this party girl goes on the more damage will be done to this young mans psyche by this totally wrong-headed pinning and pedestalizing.
The dude needs to realize that ALL YOUNG WOMEN ARE LIKE HER unless considerable effort was put into raising them to be different.
There is no question that this guy is going to suffer a great deal because of the naive ideas he was forcefed about the nature of women. The only question is how long it will take for him to get his head on straight and how much damage is done to his life-prospects. This is only going to turn out one way.
I view not being able to let go of an ex as fear. Fear of taking the chance to risk being rejected by getting to know someone new and allowing them to know you. Of course you have to remove your masks and allow yourself to be vulnerable, which is a scary thing. I think when ex’s can’t let go of each other its more of an attachment, they’d rather stick with one another because well its better the devil you know and you already know what to expect and how to manage them.
“I still can’t seem to shake the feeling of a sort of innate obligation to take care of her, be there for her and love her. Why do I still feel that way when I really want nothing to do with her? Could there be a biological explanation?”
It’s the hormone vasopressin causing this.
/Wikipedia On
In recent years, there has been particular interest in the role of vasopressin in social behavior. It is thought that vasopressin, released into the brain during sexual activity, initiates and sustains patterns of activity that support the pair-bond between the sexual partners; in particular, vasopressin seems to induce the male to become aggressive towards other males.[3]
Evidence for this comes from experimental studies in several species, which indicate that the precise distribution of vasopressin and vasopressin receptors in the brain is associated with species-typical patterns of social behavior. In particular, there are consistent differences between monogamous species and promiscuous species in the distribution of AVP receptors, and sometimes in the distribution of vasopressin-containing axons, even when closely-related species are compared.[3] Moreover, studies involving either injecting AVP agonists into the brain or blocking the actions of AVP support the hypothesis that vasopressin is involved in aggression towards other males. There is also evidence that differences in the AVP receptor gene between individual members of a species might be predictive of differences in social behavior. One study has suggested that genetic variation in male humans effects pair-bonding behavior. The brain of males uses vasopressin as a reward for forming lasting bonds with a mate, and men with one or two of the genetic alleles are more likely to experience marital discord. The partners of the men with two of the alleles affecting vasopressin reception state disappointing levels of satisfaction, affection, and cohesion.[4] Vasopressin receptors distributed along the reward circuit pathway, to be specific in the ventral pallidum, are activated when AVP is released during social interactions such as mating, in monogamous prairie voles. The activation of the reward circuitry reinforces this behavior, leading to conditioned partner preference, and thereby initiates the formation of a pair bond.[5]
/Wikipedia Off
I believe the FTOW routine works by destorying the vasopressin response. You train your body to not be capable of pair-bonding with anyone.
It’s the same reason you don’t marry a slut basically. They just don’t bond to you like a lower count woman can.
Whenever the world discovers an enclave of Fundamentalist Mormons who train their young women to believe that their highest function in life is to be the cheerful, eager, fertile 15 year old 3rd wife of a scrabous, old, “elder” there is an urge to kick down the doors to rescue them such a web of lies and mis-information. So far, so good.
But when a young man has been raised to believe his highest function in life is to sacrifice his well being to pedestalize a skank(s) who will always hold him in contempt because of his gullibility – we do what?
we do what?
Errr…blame patriarchy?
SF
So the “patriarchy” has it in for young men? And we know the “matriarchy” intends them even worse.
Do not be surprized if young men come out of their coma with considerable anger.
@Rum
I was trying to make a joke. Most feminists responses to everything is “more feminism” and “blame patriarchy”
Athol
You wrote vasopressin but the right word is oxytocin. That is the name of the hormone you were trying to describe.
Nursing school…
My husband lost his virginity to a girl he thought he loved, and he didn’t go on to have tons of hook-ups. He did the opposite and became voluntarily single and stopped looking for connections with women.
@ Rum
Oxytocin has that effect on females. Vasopressin has that effect on males.
Did you even bother to read the stuff I cut/paste from Wikipedia?
To the OP:
What Rum said.
I’m mostly concerned that you sought out dating advice from women. This is not to shame you, heck, I lived my life in this zone too long, so I know where you’ve been. You need to seek out advice and counsel from *men*, and not just any men, successful men that *are* what you want to be. It will do you no good to find a henpecked husband who hasn’t gotten laid in 3 years and ask him his philosophy on love. Fail!
It’s imperative that you ignore any advice from women posting in this thread, or anywhere else for the rest of your life. Most women’s advice in dating and love will be utter sabotage to you. Sue is one of the very few exceptions. Her advice won’t be totally wrong, but it’s not going to be what you really need to hear, or in your best interest. Only a guy is going to bust your ass and 1) tell you what you need to hear and 2) tell you things that women don’t like.
I suggest you buy Athol’s book and read all of his website ASAP. Start from the beginning and go from there. From there, read up on other Game blogs and see if you agree with they have to say.
OffTheCuff: Game is good, and it has definitely been a boon for my husband in capturing female attention, but ultimately sleeping around is not good for either men or women. For men, if the guy has any inclination toward being a family man later, there is the possibility of getting STDs or getting involved with crazy women, or inability to pair bond properly as well. For women, the problems have been well-documented.
I believe the saying in game circles is that taking relationship advice from a woman is akin to taking advice about buying cars from car salesmen: they won’t sell out their own kind, so you’ll get horrible advice. Get advice from men, who are more likely to have an impartial perspective.
My advice is that you should simply go out and seek casual sex and desensitize yourself to emotional reactions to women. Also, train yourself to seek problem signs in relationships, and make sure you are the first to terminate a relationship that’s going downhill.
@OffTheCuff, @Matt T
Yeah, yeah, I know, women can’t give good advice to men. I don’t disagree with you actually – that’s why I specifically mentioned in the body and at the end of the post that I want him to get input from the males here. So I really appreciate your giving it to him. I do take issue with questions about my impartiality, but I acknowledge that what Robinson really needs here is male wisdom.
I emailed him to let him know this was going up, but I haven’t heard back. Hopefully, he will show up and participate, but either way I’m sure there will be lots of good feedback for him.
@Athol
Thanks for the insight on vasopressin. I didn’t realize that there are mutations in the AVP receptor genes and axons, which lead to lower satisfaction, affection and cohesion. It sounds similar to the DRD4 dopamine receptor mutation, which is associated with risk-seeking behavior and aggression. Pity the woman who chooses a guy with both of these – that would be the dark triad fellow, no doubt. Speaking of which, I just saw an article which talks about narcissism as an evolutionary adaptation for males. Narcissism evolved precisely because it helped men get laid. I guess that’s pretty significant proof that chicks like assholes!
This is alarming. The last thing I want to see happen is for Robinson to destroy his pair-bonding abilities over some 3-month relationship with a wild child. Particularly as he clearly has a desire for that pair-bonding.
It’s also a compelling reason for women to avoid man whores. He’s just not ever going to fall head over heels if his number is high.
“narcissism as an evolutionary adaptation for males”
Link?
Does it explain why there are narcissistic females, too?
Vasopressin is very similar to oxytocin. Its effects are not differentiated so much male/female as human/rodent. But I should stop quibbling.
Of course there are downsides to sleeping around. It is like playing Russian Roulette, for one thing. Disease, oopsie prego, raging husbands, accusations of everything you can imagine, and so on.
But some of it may be necessary for most young men raised to be stupid about women.
The thing is, I absolutely love women just the way they are. I just do not think (any more) that they are that different – one from the other – after an hour or two of righteous sex. They all turn into crazed she-apes and make roughly the same noises and have the same uncontrollable muscle spasms in response to the same “inputs”.
@david foster
http://www.bakadesuyo.com/are-narcissists-actually-more-attractive?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+bakadesuyo+%28Barking+up+the+wrong+tree%29
I haven’t dug into the study yet – just saw this today.
I got the impression that it focused on males because one view states that “selection pressures in short-term mating contexts shaped the evolution of narcissism.” Of course, narcissism was thought to be a primarily male disorder until just a few years ago. Now, it’s lost its status as a disorder that can be treated and just refers to a collection of personality traits. Women now represent 50%+ of narcissists. So it is obviously strongly influenced by culture, regardless of its origins.
Matt/Sue: I don’t think men will give impartial advice, either, just advice better suited for men. Dating isn’t about fairness or justice. That is, if there is such a thing as impartial sating advice… it’s useless to either sex.
and why does FTOW work for men but the same strategy(FTOM) doesn’t work for women?
“advice better suited for men” Well, fook me. That would be horrible, wouldn’t it? Men getting advice that actually helped them deal with women instead of advice that made them easier for women to deal with?
“Abby” of Dear Abby fame died a few years ago. She is probably in purgatory for several hundred years because of all the bad advice she laddled out to trusting decent Americans in her day.
@Jen
I’m not sure FTOW does work for men – or at least without killing off their ability to bond deeply with a sexual partner, according to Athol. Since men are generally more able to compartmentalize sex, I can’t even imagine what FTOM would do to a woman, other than turn her into a woman whose number just jumped 10! Seriously, picturing a woman doing that seems just plain tragic, don’t you think? But I accept that fact that men and women experience sex very differently, especially when it’s casual.
Multiply the OPs typically American story thousands of times and what you get in the West is a bastion of women with far more multi-human sex mates than men at time of marriage. Now there is no wonder as to why men today, like no other time in history, are on such high alert as they plan the prime of their lives. Gentlemen, be very afraid.
Don’t even bother to ask their sexual history because they will always lie. Just ask her how much she drank at college…
Rum: I agree with you… nothing wrong with taking advice better suited for men! Heck, I encourage it!
Abbot: “women with far more multi-human sex mates than men at time of marriage?” Median partner count is 6 for men, 3 for women. Even adjusted for lying, it’s probably roughly equal. Things aren’t quite that bad as you say… yet. Still it’s wise to be alert, I’m not sure your precondition is here yet.
Jen: Because “FTOW” actually increases his status in the eyes of most women. Success breeds success.
You don’t have to fuck 10 other women. It takes only 3 or 4 in my case. YMMV.
What you need to do, Robinson, is to regain your physiological balance. What I’m seeing is classic whiny low testosterone soft male behaviours. If you go see your doctor for a blood test, it’ll likely confirm it.
Find yourself a decent lifting gym to move big irons, clean up your diet (eat plenty of red meat & good fat while you’re at it), cut out or minimize any drinking that you’re doing and improve your sleeping. Go to this guide (not perfect but a very good start): http://roissy.wordpress.com/2011/05/03/the-testosterone-guide/
I don’t want you to think about your ex or any woman while you’re a SHE: Sleepy, Hungry or Emotional. Those are your weak moments when thoughts of your ex and your failures can and will consume you. If you’re Sleepy (or tired), go to sleep. If you’re Hungry, go eat something. If you’re Emotional, go do some exercises: lift big irons or hit the punching bag or whatever you can to channel your emotions.
As you regain your healthy balance and improve your T-level, start to put yourself out there to meet other women. By then you’ll see that there’s nothing at all special about your ex. After you’ve fucked a few, you’ll be 100% cured.
Last but not least, never again ask women for dating advices.
Most feminists responses to everything is “more feminism” and “blame patriarchy”
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Patriarchy = an excuse to shame men for having a penis
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http://0.tqn.com/d/atheism/1/7/M/7/3/Patriarchy.jpg
Oh Robinson, I nearly forgot. The biggest lesson you should take from this is that you should learn to qualify and choose better women next time. It’s so obvious that this chick is bad business, and you only got with her as she was your only option, am I right?
An old wise man (who would be pissed off at me for calling him old) once told me this, and I want you to read and learn it by heart:
“Only 30% of your happiness will come from having the right woman, but 99% of your misery will come from having the wrong one in your life.”
Okay I know I’m a woman so probably what I have to say is useless for men, but I never denied advice when asked for it, so here it goes:
I think you should do a soul searching first.
You need to know why did you picked this girl for a girlfriend when her values were so different from you. Like Susan said did you had a hero complex and wanted to rescue her? Or she was just too hot to let her pass and you welcomed the attention she gave you regardless of her character? or you deep down are not as committed to your values as you think and you wanted to participate on her lifestyle? Meaning she should had rescued you from your boring life?
I think that if you really have a hero complex you should work on it, try to get over it, no one can rescue anyone but themselves.
Not sure if you can become immune to hotness but if any other hot skank wants to use you as play toy you are doomed unless you find ways to get over it or at least see the woman for what it is and no her hotness.
And if deep down you really admire the wild lifestyle then you should embrace it yourself, go and do those hook ups and meaningless sex that you are craving, if that is your true nature and what will make you happy you should embrace it, of course knowing the consequences on the long run, you might want to read Roissy’s blog and any other very successful on the scene and decide if that is the place you want to be on the future.
I personally don’t buy the “a nail takes another nail out” philosophy I think it mostly hides whatever issues a person might have and they always resurface later, stronger and more damaging, I advocate for a grief period that allows you to place things on perspective and meanwhile you can educate yourself better about relationships and women so when you are ready you can go back with better weapons and a different attitude.
Now I totally support the idea of you reading Athol’s book during this period, if you take it, also if you need to talk but are embarrassed or have no one to talk to (like a close platonic female friend) writing your feelings also help, I usually burned mines after I was done but you can also read them months later and realize how silly everything look after a while, saying things out loud take away the power of this emotions have over you IMO.
There I said it, regardless if you listen to me or not, I wish you luck on life and love.
Oh GOD no do NOT sleep around.
Robinson, you are a classic pair-bonder romantic who can’t detach sex and love; unlike what a lot of these guys say, many men are (including my current boyfriend) and there is nothing wrong with that. If you have casual sex with a woman, you will end up emotionally connecting with her and thinking that there is more to the relationship than there is, and you will only end up more heartbroken.
Take the next week or so to mope: listen to the Smiths, write angsty poetry, be miserable. Ham it up. Then take some time to work on yourself: pick up new hobbies, meet some new people, study harder, go to more parties, whatever. Try to distract yourself. Under no circumstances allow yourself to talk to her or read her Facebook or anything (if necessary, tell her that you’re going through some breakup-related pain and really can’t take it); tell your friends not to talk about her; if you start thinking about her in a romantic way stop yourself and distract yourself (even with something as simple as bad TV).
When you can think about her without pain, really consider what you want in a girlfriend in the long term, who would be compatible with you, and hold yourself to that. Make sure you date someone who shares your values and interests. Remember what they keep telling girls who chase bad boys: you cannot fix anyone, they can only fix themselves.
Even adjusted for lying, it’s probably roughly equal.
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…and such beliefs are reinforced by feminist propaganda. In the real world, it would be convenient if men believe that its true. Do they?
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Just ask her how much she drank at college…
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It is so easy to slut tell. Kinda fun too. They actually will brag about all that and leave a lot of fill in the blanks that are oh sooo easy to fill in.
It is so easy to slut tell. Kinda fun too. They actually will brag about all that and leave a lot of fill in the blanks that are oh sooo easy to fill in.
Heh. One of my favorite slut discovering techniques was not only listening without looking judgmental but also make them drink. Sluts love to brag about their feats. It only takes them to feel confident about you not walking out in horror, some shots and some innocent looking questions and they are go to go.
.
Not universally. Seen some do that and for too many of them it ends badly.
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Rum, OTC, you come off sounding bitter. That’s not surprising ’cause most guys get bitter with that kind of experience (and everyone has “that kind of experience” somewhere along the line – it’s one of the few universal truths I bank on). But getting over it is a personal experience and Robinson’s is liable to be different.
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My advice to him is to be as careful about the next girl as he can be, but let there be a next girl.
Sluts love to brag about their feats
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Including duping a good man like our OP into marriage, sadly. Stop the Dupe. Avoid the infamous embraced, expressed, empowered and charactered. Learn to slut tell.
Yeah, Robinson, fuck pair-bonding. Why be what you are when you can be a bitter, cynical, nihilistic-misanthrope… who gets laid! [/sarcasm]
It keeps getting said that there are no good women; I guess it’s because there are no good men to lead them. Either someone gives good advice or they don’t. If a woman can’t give good advice to men, what are the chances it’ll be any good to women and vice versa?
Robinson, you fucked up. A little forecast if you go for another party girl: It’ll end the same way. We are not wolves, being less caring (beta) does not make you more dominant (alpha) let alone desirable to the women you wish to attract. If a women is truly impressed by being a total jackass, would you really want her? (Think “Jersey Shore”) Read Athol Kay’s blog and book; then report back.
I’ve been here before! These questions are about return of investment. This guy had a lot to invest because he had been saving himself for so long. He invested everything, lost it all, and is now recovering from emotional bankruptcy. The answer to the first set of questions is that residual feelings of love pass slowly, especially when a relationship ends in the middle. It may feel like forever, but those thought loops will pass. The second question finds him wondering if he should adopt the girl’s strategy. She seems to enjoy it and a short-term investment is appealing to him because his long-term investment did not pan out.
LW, you’re not alone. My first long-term relationship contained similar circumstances and in hindsight I know that the person I picked was not a very good choice for me. And, yes, ever since that one, I have been much less inclined to date long-term. You might say I’ve become even more selective on the one hand, however, once I realized that the selection of people who shared my ideals was almost impossibly thin, my morals loosened up a bit. I still have limits, but I’ve given myself the freedom to date without necessarily thinking about the long-term right away. It has been freeing.
Robinson clearly mentioned other girlfriends in his letter, so this is unlikely to be a situation where he found someone who actually gave him a chance. To me, Robinson appears to have made a commitment to honor commitment, and believes that it is the man’s duty to care and love his wife. In this situation, however, he chose to finalize the deal before the deal was struck; he comes across as the divorced man who in no way wanted a divorce. By having sex with her, he was making (in his mind/conscience) a lifetime commitment, even though there were serious red flags warning him against it. Sometimes people do that, despite normally having better judgment. For him, having sex with her was the mistake.
I would definitely not recommend the FTOW strategy for Robinson – that lifestyle is obviously one that doesn’t fit his personality and morals. Even if it has the effect on Robinson proponents of FTOW argue for, he’ll intellectually regret it, even as he practices it. The solution is to find the girl who will also make the commitment along with him – easier said than done, of course, but here Game can help him. Robinson, stick with who you are, just work on making a better you. Whether that means working out, developing more social skills, or mastering a special skill, enhance who you are. Be patient, because there are other girls on the girl tree. Continue dating. Stick with your morals. People notice, both men and women, and there are quite a few girls out there who are looking for an Alpha that has the same morals as you.
Morals? I’m gonna call Ockham’s Razor and say that he slept with her instead of the other girls cos she actually put out. Didn’t you read? They have completely different values. He doesn’t do drugs and hookup. She’s a druggie and sluts it up. His virginity at 24 years old and the desperate need to get laid clouded his senses. The rest of it is called “making necessity a virtue”.
I don’t recommend this guy to go FTOW straight away because he’s now overly emotional, so doing silly hookups is just going to damage his psyche even further. He needs to gain control over his emotions first and gets his T-level back to normal healthy male. Atm it’s somewhere between girly girl and tomboy.
Some people are motivated by money. Some by fame. Some by power. Some by sex. And some are motivated by conviction. Your assumption, spirits, and the assumption of many others, is that the only reason a 24 year old man can still be a virgin is lack of opportunity. Ok, that’s not entirely fair; you did appeal to Ockham’s Razor. Robinson did point out the different standards the two had, but that’s not all he said. Quote:
“Since I lost my virginity to her and put a lot of effort in the relationship, I still can’t seem to shake the feeling of a sort of innate obligation to take care of her, be there for her and love her.”
Where does this sense of “innate obligation” come from? The easy answer has been alluded to several times in the comments – basically from feminized propaganda. It also happens to be a Christian teaching, not exactly the guidebook to popular feminism. Other moral systems, and some ethnic cultures, teach this as well. He points out how he was raised, how he resisted hooking up, how he *mostly* stayed clear of drugs. (Sounds like he tried pot a time or two, but didn’t keep at it.) Biology doesn’t explain all behavior and motivation, conviction born of environmental factors (upbringing) plays a role as well. No person is perfect, and every single one of us has compromised our moral standard before; dismissal of his values as motivation because he compromised them isn’t fair. Your assertion may be right, he may have slept with her instead because she put out. Or she came on stronger than any of the others ever did and he went with the flow. Only he knows the answer to that.
It’s not uncommon to hear of women who remain virgins, by choice, into their 20s and 30s, why dismiss his explanation because he’s a man? We have the ability to control our impulses the same as women do.
What would help Robinson a lot, imho, would be to get over, on the level of his gut, the notion that his relationship with this girl is the least bit important in the long or even medium term. She is not special enough for any such emo-spasms as he in going thru. He does not know it yet but the special thing was that sex happened, not so much with whom it happened. Another half-way decent sexual relationship would almost automatically induce a big sigh of relief on his part. It would be -”So she was nothing special after all. I think I am over her now. And the world is full of this if I keep my wits about me.” And he begins to smile again.
What this insight would do to his “morals” and “Principles” I cannot say; except that morals and principles have no right to exist if they can only be based on lies about Human Nature.
This makes sense, evolutionary. His emotions assume she’s pregnant with his baby, so it’s a survival strategy to go and take care of the baby/mother even if the couple is broken up. Of course not all men follow this script…
But this survival strategy, of fretting over the baby’s mother, make sense when women are scarce. So a new girlfriend will help hugely. Even a new lay will, though as the readers know, it’s a tall order to ask a random guy to get laid at will.
wondering if he should adopt the girl’s strategy
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Strategy? The implies effort, charm, accomplishment and is admiration worthy. The expressed, empowered, embraced do not require any of these and therefore never develop those skills. That’s precisely why they rarely brag about it – they have no reason to brag. Tapping penis is akin to hailing a cab. Yea, some strategy.
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that lifestyle is obviously one that doesn’t fit his personality and morals.
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Introducing that other US culture: men
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there are quite a few girls out there who are looking for an Alpha that has the same morals as you.
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Outside the West, where nearly all Earth’s women dwell, that irrefutably is the NORM
This makes sense, evolutionary. His emotions assume she’s pregnant with his baby
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But evolution did not prepare men to properly abhor a woman who both harbors his child and treats her sexuality as a plaything for other men
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it’s a tall order to ask a random guy to get laid at will.
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Thus the visceral disgust men have for sluts who look at them like they are some sort of matrimonial rescuers.
No: If a man can’t get women sufficiently easily, then taking care of the mother is a win for him, no matter who the mother is. Because the alternative is to not take care og one’s existing baby and not to make new ones.
taking care of the mother is a win for him, no matter who the mother is
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The Western SMP can box a man in
I have yet to meet the man who can’t compartmentalize sex. It’s just that men with little experience often have a hard time doing it. If you go FTOW, you’ll discover that most girls are like your ex and don’t deserve your love. You deserve better. Furthermore, the experience will teach you how to discriminate between girls who are LTR quality and those who aren’t.
Jen writes
Because too many sexual partners ruins a woman. You don’t have a penis, get over it.
This guy needs a splash of cold water to the face. Welcome to the adult sexual market place.
Every woman who read your letter is repulsed by you, and that’s not going to change until you do.
Every man who is reading this (interested in the SMP and / or Game) has been standing where you are at some point. That should make you feel better.
You need to read some Roissy and stop seeking advice from women ( no offense ladies). The quickest way to get over a woman is to fuck the next one, bottom line.
too many sexual partners ruins a woman
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…for a good man. Women know this. They don’t like it. They know that, despite years of desperately trying all sorts of tactics, men will not change. So the next best thing is to lie to them. Until it backfires. And it is backfiring. So now the next best thing [the best thing] is for *gasp* women to change their behaviors.
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you’ll discover that most girls are like your ex and don’t deserve your love…the experience will teach you how to discriminate between girls who are LTR quality and those who aren’t.
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Just ONE thirty-day visit to just about anyplace south of Mexico will really teach our good man. He, like most American men, have far more in common, in terms of what constitutes a good opposite sex partner, with women down there than just about any girl next door.
Seriously, Robinson should not FTOW. That is a terrible plan. He will fall in love with one of them, and she will not return his affections and even if she does will probably not be a suitable partner for him.
And before you say “I haven’t met a man who can’t compartmentalize sex”– I have. A lot. I have had multiple men fall in love with me after I fuck them, and I highly doubt it is because I am so mind-blowingly good in bed they just can’t help themselves.
As totally expected. Do not listen to sswords or ozymandias, who assume that your current morals are set in stone, and that you can only. They want you to keep doing what you’re doing… and you’re going to get the same results. They are not your friends here.
Only Stephenie gave the correct response here: re-evaluate truthfully what you want. You have to really ask the hard questions – are you seeking marriage because that’s what you really want, or is it because what you’ve been TOLD you want by your Mom, your Church, your culture, rom-coms, TV, your female friends, and other self-interested women who are pretending to help you. She is the only one who cares enough to see that you might not know exactly what you want, and is encouraging you to talk a deeper look.
That answer *might* be “FTOW” if you make an informed decision about the consequences and accept them. It’s not guaranteed, but don’t believe for one second that it can’t be the answer for you. The answer might be to have a fling or two to cure your one-itis and teach you to keep women off the pedestal. I don’t know what it will be. But you have to keep your mind open to the possibilities.
“what you’ve been TOLD you want by your Mom… She [Only Stephenie] is the only one who cares enough to see that you might not know exactly what you want, and is encouraging you to talk a deeper look.”
You automatically assume this guy’s mom cares less than a female commenter online?
My husband’s mom loves him so much, and did so much for him, and it’s really wonderful to see the way she loves him. She definitely cares more about him than any other woman on the planet except maybe me. But she didn’t give him the best advice for sleeping with tons of hot women — nor did she have him put women on a pedestal. So yeah he got his heart broken a few times, and didn’t lose his virginity until his 20s. Still, he is an amazing man and incredibly attractive, not because he slept around but because he IS a family-oriented man, and found a family-oriented wife.
I said “Only Stephenie gave the correct response here” which means of the female posts so far here on the thread, only Steph really cares enough to actually consider things from his perspective.
I make no claim about how much his Mother cared, since nothing was said about it. They were just generic examples of where inaccurate ideas about women can come from. You’re tying together two separate ideas that I didn’t intend to chain.
PS. If you are going to quote me, please do it correctly. By changing the order of my sentences and then selectively editing it, it completely changed the meaning. Here’s how you quoted me, out of order:
And this is what I said, with proper elision that preserves the meaning.
Eh, ignore that last message, I totally goofed it. I think I see the miscommunication here:
“She is the only one” means of the posters here. It doesn’t mean “the only female in your life, including your mother.”
First off, to join the choir: Stop asking women for dating advice. Don’t listen to the ones responding on here either. Even if a woman calling herself Tom pipes up, don’t listen to her!
Second: FTOW. I’m going to say that without reservation. I’m an old guy (38), late to game and I wish I’d had it when I was younger because it would have changed my life in so many (positive) ways. Don’t wait. Change.
Anyone telling you to keep your sniveling, beta, pair-bonding self intact is trying to sabotage you. Even if you don’t want to be another Roissy or Roosh, game and fucking enough women to forever knock them off their pedestals will fix you as a man (because it’s obvious that right now you are well broken.)
Start with: Roissy, Delusion Damage, Freedom Twenty-Five and branch out from there. Come back here when you want to amuse yourself. Stay away from the pickup forums – learn in real life.
Good luck.
Robinson, you are not just a “person”, you are a man
Say, you dont have to have lots of sex with strangers. But you do have to understand that is what you should be able to do naturally, if thats what you wanted.
So this advise you´re getting to “really figure out what you want, get instrospective, and wait” would work if you were a woman, because while you wait, you would still be bombarded with sexual and relationship offers, and eventually when you regain your mental health you would only have to pick one of those offerings and slow it down to the level you are comfortable.
But you are a guy, you are one of these offerings, you are not the one whos receiving, but the one giving.
So if you stay low and eventually find a girl that you can connect with, unless she is your very improbable soul absolute match, if you are not in alpha mood, you will be broken by her again.
So get in alpha mood. Get out of your shell. Find your weakness and develop whatever you are lacking.
Getting stuck on a girl that consumed you emotionally is not sane. Heal it. The best healing you can get as a man is abundance and detachment, boundaries management, people skills, etc. So get out there without sourness, just get out there. You dont have to “fuck” girls if they scare you, but you do need to get out of your head.
subscribed
Robinson has a textbook case of oneitis.
Oneitis is the delusion that the person you are sleeping with is unique or special in any way, shape or form.
Allow me to whip out my player prescription pad and write: go FTOW
@Hope: I’m trying to follow what you are saying about Megan Fox and Kate Middleton.
Do you really believe that guys think Kate Middleton is hot because of her personality and Megan Fox because of her looks?
I don’t think so. I think that men are assessing both women 100% on their looks.
Some men think Kate Middleton is hot. Some men thinks she looks rather mannish. Different strokes for different folks.
Maybe if I had actually met either of those women in person I might make a judgement about their personalities. Otherwise, I wouldn’t dream of it.
Thank you, OTC.
I really don’t have anything personally against sluts (male or female) per se, if that is what they want and are willing to accept the consequences and don’t lie to get laid that is not cool in my book. But if you enjoy it and all involved are consenting adults and you are no trying to use this for selfish purposes or you don’t believe you are better than anyone because of your conquest (empowerment scam) or to hurt anyone on the present or the future, by all means. Healthy sluthood is not a problem for me.
What I don’t like is the believe that a person can indulge themselves into certain lifestyle and will just wake up one day and stop, with no struggle or fall out. Its like saying I’m going to eat 10000 calories for the first 30 years of my life and then I will change to vegan/healthy/diet one day.
I mean it does happen (miracles do exist) but is very very very hard and few people actually succeed on the long term, so not telling a person about your sexual habits prior to a formal relationship (if you decide to get a LTR or married) is IMO fraud. Honesty for ourselves and others is my motto.
Yohami nails it here:
Exactly, Robinson’s trying to work out his attitude towards women when they aren’t even in the same room as him. It doesn’t work like that.
OTC, this close to Mother’s Day, that was bound to be on my mind. Sorry for the misunderstanding.
Also my mother-in-law is in town for my husband’s graduation. She is a great woman even if she didn’t advise her son to sleep around.
I can safely say that not every woman who read the letter was repulsed by the reader. This behavior is very typical of the type of men that I was raised to see as acceptable.
Gee- no trip to Mexico needed to find women who think that the letter writer is a good young man. In college, I was found at my local religious chapter, working, hanging out at the library, the bookstore, sci-fi conventions, volunteering in the community. Sunday morning interested me a whole heck of a lot more than Friday night.
I am a beta woman. My husband thinks he’s damn lucky to have me- I really only spoke relationships, not hookups. I get being content with the simple things. And I married a beta man who had given up on relationships until I got nudged out of my comfort zone. He was trying to become a foster dad, he was happy in a life that involved fishing, serving the community, and home repairs.
Contentment is finding your counterbalance when you know enough about yourself to know what makes your counterbalance.
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My advice to the man is to realize that he’s chemically bonded to the woman. This isn’t rational, it isn’t easy to get past, and often times it’s designed to be that way. When you delay sex, it’s tougher to make a rational decision. He found something different in this woman that he hadn’t seen before- that spark is rare.
Not impossible to find- I’d recommend go date 10-50 other women, found on at least 3 web pages. Look for women who say they want relationships, that have a degree of ambition in their lives, and share your religious and desire or lack there of for kids. In other words, look for relationships in unexpected areas. Postpone sex until the 6th date this time- until a bond of attraction, chemistry and shared values is established.
Realize that you will hold a special place in your heart for the other woman…. and move on.
Susan, the biophysical explanation for why men who sleep around are unable to properly pair bond makes a lot of sense. Although I think there are also other factors involved. Men just aren’t that into women who aren’t putting out super hot and sexual vibes — but slutty women do put out these vibes and make men fall for them despite themselves. Lately there have been many men who say that Kate Middleton is not hot, basically saying she doesn’t arouse by her looks alone. But a girl like Megan Fox is sexy no matter her behavior or past. I wonder if something like that is at work when men say “most women are sluts.” It’s probably that most women whom men actually notice, get aroused by and want to sleep with are sluts. A nice girl who is very quiet and goodie two shoes, doesn’t give off hot vibes and isn’t a stunner makes a great wife, but she’s too boring for guys to lust after… and without knowing true love, guys can’t seem to distinguish “love” and lust.
I agree. I think the equivalent to women would be, without knowing true love, girls cant seem to distinguish “love” and attention
not telling a person about your sexual habits prior to a formal relationship (if you decide to get a LTR or married) is IMO fraud
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If only because sex is a big part of what binds people. So is just staying alive and if you do not tell the person you have a potentially fatal heart disease then they do not have informed consent or IC. Not telling about your sexual history means they do not have IC as well. Why? Because it matters and you know it. That is fraud, not from a legal sense but from a character sense.
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Stop the Dupe!
This entire post alludes to the fact that men and women in the US are generally from two distinct sexual cultures.
“A nice girl who is very quiet and goodie two shoes, doesn’t give off hot vibes and isn’t a stunner makes a great wife, but she’s too boring for guys to lust after… and without knowing true love, guys can’t seem to distinguish “love” and lust.”
I totally agree with that there is a difference between hot and pretty. My ex-boss used to call this women “cold beauties” but I think a bit of it is subjective. Of course universally a woman like Angelina Jolie is hot, but Diane Kruger is considered prettier and aesthetically pleasing looking but no hot. But both do find men attracted to them and willing to commit. So my guess is that that is more a number question a woman might no be hot for the large number of men, but she surely have her target audience that will find her hot. Technically you only need one person to find you hot enough to carry your genes to be an evolutionary success, so chances are that it will happen, the trick is that you also find that person attractive too
Workshy Joe, both Kate Middleton and Megan Fox (I don’t know enough about either of them) are judged 100% on their looks, and Kate comes up “short” so to speak. Men are saying she’s not good enough to be marrying the prince because she’s not as hot. I’m not saying girls who aren’t “hot” have better personalities, but hotness defined by most men seems to be a combination of glammed up looks, revealing attire, makeup, and overly sexual vibe, which don’t exactly signal LTR qualities. The OP mistook a slut for a LTR girlfriend, and got burned. He also thought his lust was “love.” If he can realize it is NOT love, he’ll have a easier time getting over it.
Megan Fox is married and reportedly, non slut
Girls always come up with this after dumping a man. How do you know its not “love” but “lust”? if it was lust he would be dreaming of fucking her again, but it seems he misses the “connection”
Women underestimate men emotions big time, too much rubbing and disappointing with alpha guys and jerks makes you forgive men have a heart, that, or its simply a projection like in: lusting after jerks rather than loving them
Robinson cases are way more abundant than jerk cases where the man didnt attach
its he HEARTBREAK what makes betas- to reconsider becoming alphas or jerks or puas or whatever
its teh HEART break, not the penis break
Megan Fox is married and reportedly, non slut
Didn’t she said she was bisexual at some point? I think bisexuals are most of the time sluts too. Not always but often enough.
Yohami, a connection does not equal love. My husband said he thought he loved two girls before me, but they weren’t really love of the girl, but how they made him feel. Love of a phantom.
I agree, or at least it does not equal REAL love – the kind of love that is deep intimate and lasts. Yet, calling it “lust” implies he is thinking with his dick, which is dismissive of his feelings / dismissive of men and you know, I care about men
It it was lust he would be fucking other women by now
I didnt know about it, so googled and yes, she´s bisexual and says she only had sex with lesbians because girls having sex with dirty men are dirty. Way to destroy my crush on her.
OTC is quite right, even if he did criticize me: if it turns out, after consideration, that what you really want is to FTOW and the culture has been trying to teach you otherwise, then you should go do that.
However, if you don’t want to, you should not feel like you have to because some commenters here are saying so; it will not help you with your mental health, it will just give you a new girl to be heartbroken over.
It is a bad idea to pedestalize women– if you catch yourself thinking about how “all women are good” or anything about “chivalry,” remind yourself that women are people, and come in the same range of assholes to saints, douchebags to cool people, as men do. However, you can keep yourself from pedestalizing women with honest female friends (NOT girls you are secretly in love with and too chicken to tell); you don’t need casual sex.
Stephenie: I honestly don’t understand people who keep their sex history secret. I am compulsively honest; I actually make a policy of warning people about anything they might not like about me before they get attached (“I’ve had six sexual partners, I’m orientationally poly but I can handle monogamy, I’m a vegan…”). If your partner wouldn’t love you knowing about your sluthood or your virginity, your partner doesn’t really love you: they love an imaginary version of you in their heads.
Denise: I agree, I liked him. Dude’s a sweetheart. Bit of an idealist, but a sweetheart.
Word on the number of places women can get picked up. I’d like to add that if you find a “nice” girl, even if she’s not your type, she almost certainly has a bunch of equally nice friends. I know a bunch of women who are perfectly sweet, fairly attractive (at least, I’d fuck nearly all of them if they didn’t have a terminal case of the Straight), very intelligent and chronically single– a godsend to Robinson.
Bisexuals are not necessarily sluts; I know quite a few bisexuals who only have sex in committed loving relationships. Of course, some of them are in polyamorous committed loving relationships, but still.
Sure Yohami, only men can “fall in love” on first sight. Not dismissing this phenomenon. The emotions felt are just as real as when falling in love after knowing someone deeply and intimately. Hurts just as much, too. But the man must realize that the love is a projection. HE has the force of love within himself; he gave it to her. She didn’t want it from him, but she also can’t take it away. Only he can. The process of healing is to love and respect himself, not burn his ability to love away, systematically carving out his heart piece by piece. That would be the real tragedy. My husband took the path of healing himself and is capable of so much love. Others who went through similar experiences as him (including girls who are heartbroken) are wounded and refuse to love again. Ultimately the choice is up to the indivdual.
A lot of people overlook the impact of a guy’s first sexual experience in shaping his views and goals. Robinson has exactly one experience with sex, and it sounds as if it was idealized. Sex is definitely wonderful in the context of a committed, loving relationship, but it’s also wonderful in other contexts, too.
My advice to Robinson: You don’t have to go to the other extreme, but I think it’s important for you to experience sex in other contexts. You have a very narrow perspective right now. How can you possibly say what you want when you only know one of the choices? The FTOW plan is a pipe dream for most guys. Don’t let them lie to you. However, having a couple of casual relationships where you are less invested than with your ex is probably a good idea. You’re young, and there’s no rush to the altar. Spend a few months having fun, flirting, and going after different kinds of girls. Have sex with two or three girls in different contexts. Have a one night stand if you want.
Honesty is very important. Don’t lie to girls to get them in bed, and don’t make promises you don’t intend to keep. But also, don’t put women on a pedestal. Don’t think that you’re going to destroy their fragile little lives if you have sex with them a couple of times and move on. That’s how dating works, and don’t think for a second that women won’t do the same thing to you. It’s ok. It’s just part of being human.
Ozy wrote:
The problem that Robinson has is putting this particular woman on a pedestal over OTHER WOMEN.
Ironically, if he was putting EVERY girl on the SAME pedestal, his problem would much be easier to fix. Just learning to value himself would be enough.
But Robinson’s delusion is that his ex is DIFFERENT because she chose to sleep with HIM. His lack of sexual experience with a variety of women gets in the way of reality testing and objectivity.
I didnt know about it, so googled and yes, she´s bisexual and says she only had sex with lesbians because girls having sex with dirty men are dirty. Way to destroy my crush on her.
Well she married a man, so it can’t be that strict. Also she has a tendency to place her foot on her mouth a lot I wouldn’t pay attention to her words, she probably just said for the shock of it. I don’t particularly like her, but she Natalie Portman and Kristen Stewart (Whom I adore to no end) need to learn not to say everything that crossed their minds out loud at any given point. So keep I wouldn’t renounce my crush just yet
Hope, I agree, my objection was to the “lust” word only
Its more like women need time to open and experience love and let it develop, while men are on off switches, plus most men dont know where the switch is so they cant operate it.
The answer is not to destroy the switch but to set it OFF by default, though, making you more like a woman in this regard.
If your partner wouldn’t love you knowing about your sluthood or your virginity, your partner doesn’t really love you: they love an imaginary version of you in their heads.
Totally I think it comes to mind the fact that you deep down are not proud of the person you are. The moment you need to lie about something, then is the moment that you are admitting to yourself that what you choose was wrong and are unwilling to live with the unpleasant consequences of that choice. That is not a good trait for a LTR, IMO.
Some people go thru a mounring period after they and someone they really love split up. For those people, being sexually inactive is not only important to them, it is therapeutic. Other people may really like sex, but do not want a new relationship at the present, so they might “test the waters” so to speak. Some people feel having sex with others might help them forget. In reality those pople probably need some attention, validation, and some self image help. Thing is, that strategy DOES work, for a lot of people. Not everyone deals with stress in the same way.Not everyone deals with a breakup in the same way. Dont judge an indian until you have walked a mile in their moccasins.
I’m not sure that telling oneself, “Well, she wasn’t worth very much anyhow” is always, or even usually, the best way to get over a relationship. In Robinson’s case, we know that the girl had some not-so-great attributes: the drinking, the pot smoking, the hooking up for attention. But we don’t know enough to conclude that these thing are *all* there were to her and that Robinson’s feelings are based entirely on lust and first-time imprinting. Maybe she has a great sense of humor. Maybe she writes great poetry, or she’s a brilliant wildlife biologist. Maybe she’s extraordinarily kind to friends and strangers. Maybe it’s possible to recognize that they were not right for each other–indeed, maybe she wouldn’t be a very good wife/LTR for *anyone*…while still not negating whatever positive attributes she might have had.
Robinson,
I’d strongly encourage you to pursue another woman immediately. I would also encourage you to stay on blogs like this to get insights into the nature of women. However, like others have said, getting dating advice from women is a terrible idea primarily because quite a few of them really don’t want to admit what they respond to. It’s just one of those things…
Totally I think it comes to mind the fact that you deep down are not proud of the person you are. The moment you need to lie about something, then is the moment that you are admitting to yourself that what you choose was wrong and are unwilling to live with the unpleasant consequences of that choice. That is not a good trait for a LTR, IMO.
__________________________
Could it be that the opinion that judges her by her past and not who she is now is wrong?
Eveyone keeps secrets. Do you tell your man about the thoughts you get about every good looking man you see? You think your man would be pleased that you found a man you saw, was really sexy? He had a nice package? You wondered what he might be like in bed? Why dont YOU tell your man about THOSE thoughts? Because he doesnt need to know, thats why. Because he loves who you are now. Would his opinion be diffrent if you told him all your thoughts about othr men? Of course not.
Right, Stephenie. Or you think your partner won’t love the person you are, even if you are proud of it (think of the teenage girls who pretend to be stupid so boys will like them). Either way, it says something unflattering about yourself or your partner.
Of course, I tend towards the very honest: I am uncomfortable even with white lies, which isn’t common. Still about something as major as one’s sexual history, one needs to fucking TALK about it.
David, you make a really good point; he needs to figure out a way to value the meaningful parts of his relationship without hiding from himself the bad parts.
Quite a bit better ozy, but I disagree with this:
Bad idea. Hanging out with women platonically can make it significantly worse, because of the very high chance that it will change from “just a friend” to “secretly in love”. Guys can become more attracted to someone they didn’t think of at first, as they get to know someone. You assume that guys know at first meeting whether they are “secretly in love” and that’s not always the case.
Applying the term “sweetheart” to a man means means unattractive. It’s not a compliment, because it’s always used in a demeaning way, like: “awwww, isn’t that so cute, like a puppy!”.
Tom– I actually do tell my boyfriend all about, I don’t know, the cute girl in my Gender Studies class.* But then I am both quite odd and not very good at this whole “monogamy” thing (I don’t cheat, dishonesty is morally wrong, it’s just that I have trouble with the little social rules).
If your boyfriend would judge you by your sexual past and you have a very adventurous sexual past, that’s information you need to have so you can find a more compatible boyfriend.
*So. CUTE.
OTC– I figured that the “if he wants casual sex, he should have it” was obvious.
No, I mean that if someone becomes attracted to a platonic friend, they should make their feelings clear long before “secretly in love” becomes an issue. At worst, it’ll be awkward for a few days; at best, new relationship. And if you get one of those awful people who takes advantage of your feelings, well, it’s a good thing you don’t have to date them, isn’t it?
Um, I masturbate to sweethearts, I fuck sweethearts, I am a fucking beta fetishist, sweetheart doesn’t mean unattractive to me.
*Pussies may be of any gender; women do not get a free pass here.
If your boyfriend would judge you by your sexual past and you have a very adventurous sexual past, that’s information you need to have so you can find a more compatible boyfriend.
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Well there you have it. Case closed. But wait, its not done yet! Oh no, because he must be making excuses to cover insecurities and therefore is not evaluating your character because if that is good, he is passing up a good woman over something that everyone does and feels good and men have been doing since the Triassic and is just plain stupid and besides those adventures formed your character and thats the person he fell for and on and on and on….
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But yet, nobody rides a man for willingly choosing a WOE, or nowhere nears as much as people will lambast a man for dismissing one. Now why is that?
Eveyone keeps secrets. Do you tell your man about the thoughts you get about every good looking man you see? You think your man would be pleased that you found a man you saw, was really sexy? He had a nice package? You wondered what he might be like in bed? Why dont YOU tell your man about THOSE thoughts? Because he doesnt need to know, thats why. Because he loves who you are now. Would his opinion be diffrent if you told him all your thoughts about othr men? Of course not.
I tell my husband everything that happens through my mind if I remember it and/or he asks, and no I don’t have a secrets. There is a chinese proverb that says: Si no quieres que se enteren no lo hagas (If you don’t want anyone to know, don’t do it)
I’m not a slut remember? I don’t look at people and wonder how they are in bed, that is the way sluts operate: obsessed with getting sex from everything that has a pulse. And I know that because most of my slutty friends used to do that all the time. I mostly look at people and try to imagine what they are thinking though and if they have something interesting I imagine a fictional character based on them and try to describe it on my head. The pathetic truth is that I’m gathering and analyzing info and creating universes on my head most of the time. So no I’m not thinking on men’s packages all the time but if I would I would say so.
Heh the funny thing on that comment is that shows again why sluts are bad bets, if you spent your free time fantasizing about having sex with anyone good looking enough how long do you think you will be aroused/interested by the same old punani/dick for a long period of time, through old age, disease and dry spells?
No to mention the old justification everyone has secrets so my sex parties/gang bangs can be part of the nebulous gray/imaginary area called “secrets everyone has”. Lying is another poor character trait, FYI.
Of course, I tend towards the very honest: I am uncomfortable even with white lies, which isn’t common. Still about something as major as one’s sexual history, one needs to fucking TALK about it.
Heh me too. I didn’t noticed how hard is for me to lie till I choose to tell the truth even when it wasn’t on my best interests. Stupid bad habit.:)
Abbot– Interestingly, I happen to find people who judge character based on how many cocks a woman’s had inside her, as opposed to (for example) the time she stayed up all night counseling a friend not to commit suicide or her donation of 10% of her income to charity or, hell, even her inability to not feed a stray animal that stops by her door, to be of terrifically poor character.
Workshy– It’s true that that’s a problem. A certain amount of pedestalization is, in my experience, ordinary in a romantic relationship (“my partner is the best of all possible partners! No one else understands me like s/he does!”) and as long as it doesn’t blind you to your partner being a human being and imperfect it’s probably fine. In my experience, that kinds of pedestalization is generally born out of inexperience with women in general– not just sexually. Unfortunately, I’m not sure how he can fix it, since there is a distinct possibility having sex with other women will make him pedestalize them instead.
(“my partner is the best of all possible partners! No one else understands me like s/he does!”)
I think that is no only common but necessary for a LTR I mean if your partner is not the best why stay with him/her? There most be something that you consider unique that allows you to stop looking and work around the issues.
Yes, of course everyone keeps secrets. Its a matter of degree which ones should be secret. She got into a brawl at a rally once and kicked someone in the teeth…yeah, ok, keep that a secret. There is a reason why women do not want to share their sexual past with other men, especially a potential husband. If there was no reason to not share it she would share it. She may speak of a beautiful vacation…but why not finish with the 5 day romance that was part of it? She would not keep secret a potentially fatal disease if she had one. But sex with multitudes of practice-husbands? She tells her girlfriends. Why not him? Because she knows that any man worth marrying also must have some wisdom and would not consider her fit to be a wife and the world in NOT cut out for the WOE cult of which she is part.
Abbot do you think women should remain virgin until marriage? and same applied to men? or are you saying less is more? or zero should be the number? or…?
“I happen to find people who judge character based on how many cocks a woman’s had inside her…”
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Red herring. It is NOT a character judgement. The man may consider her character wonderful and still dismiss her. If you consider his character to be questionable because of that, then, by all means, find another man. That is equality, no?
Virginity is not necessary. Men and women in the US are generally from two distinct sexual cultures. There is a push by women’s groups to get men to align their sexual interests [but not necessarily share sex] with women so that that they can stay on some twisted course leading to “equality.” Women can do whatever they want and men are not telling them otherwise or getting all up in their personal business. Men should not and will not be expected to modify their sexual view to appease women when they decide its time to stop accessing easy multiple partner sex. Robinson represents the typical male and is way to good for the typical female, sexually speaking. Its the female that needs to align her interests with the male if she wants to increase her chance of having a good man as a partner. Because it aint gonna happen en mass any other way.
Stephenie– From an objective point of view, any partner could theoretically be improved on by one of the six billion people on this earth. From a subjective point of view, my boyfriend is the best person who has ever lived.
Abbot– It seems to me that my plan works out well for everyone. I’m going to get married to someone who doesn’t mind that I’ve had casual sex, and you’re going to get married to your virgin, and happiness all around. Why are you telling women to lie?
Also, I’m dating a man any woman would be proud to marry, and he doesn’t mind that I’ve had six sexual partners. They exist.
You’re going to get married to your virgin, and happiness all around. Why are you telling women to lie?
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None of that has been stated.
Abbot, but Robinson´s ex didnt care about being a parter for him, she dumped him. So there´s no point on telling her to change her ways if she wants to be with Robinson. And, theres no one telling Robinson he has to accept that girl for a wife.
His ex is going to be better with some dude who smokes / hooks ups or, say, someone closer to her culture. Robinson isnt being forced or shamed for not taking her.
he doesn’t mind that I’ve had six sexual partners. They exist.
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In the US/UK, many men would exist for you, feel proud, and even a have a reason to brag. Its not 1949 but pretty damn close.
Robinson´s ex didnt care about being a parter for him, she dumped him. So there’s no point on telling her to change her ways
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Its too later for her. One day she will care and the last guy in her life will be the one to reckon with all the crap.
So you say one day she will be looking for a nige guy TM to take care of her and pay the bills and give her children, and she will have to lie because no nice guy will want her? plus there will be some feminist shaming the guys that dont want her because her past?
Robinsons problem is that he is projecting a massive amount of stuff into a “relationship” that was not true anywhere except inside his own head. Certainly not inside the womans head, she would have been mystified by his obsessions if he could have explained them to her.
That is the core of his dilemma – reality outside his head will never conform to the map he has been given for navigating the man-woman thing.
Abbot, I literally have no idea what you’re ranting about.
@ozymandias – I agree, I’m not too sure what Abbot is rambling about
woot? no. explanations of love dont work
@Spank
I was not repulsed by Robinson in the least. Perhaps you need to read less Roissy.
@OffTheCuff
What do you disagree with in the post?
That hurts.
I agree with Hope. To those who would encourage Robinson to dispose of his values and swallow the Red Pill, I say not so fast. I don’t think his letter indicates that he pedestalized this girl. He lays out her faults clearly and states frankly that they caused the demise of the relationship. No doubt Robinson could use some Game, but why should we encourage him to read Roissy and Roosh without adding in the warning that if he emulates them he’ll lose his humanity as he turns into a fucking machine. Nothing in Robinson’s letter leads me to think that’s what he does really want.
And that pisses me off. WTF OffTheCuff?
Nothing in your post. That’s why I said “responses”… meaning the response to your post, not his letter.
Oh, you weren’t included in that. I mean the responders to the thread. You know that you and Steph are excluded from the “bad advice to men” brigade.
Methinks I need to spend more time proofreadin. Not my best day of getting my point across…
No and yes. I’m not saying that his values are wrong. I’m saying consider that they might ineffective in getting him what he wants in today’s world. That means take the Red Pill, see reality, and make up your mind. Taking the Red Pill doesn’t mean “be Roissy” — if that was the case, Athol and I would would be divorced right now and banging 25-year olds, wouldn’t it?
I do, and here’s the key line: “I still can’t seem to shake the feeling of a sort of innate obligation to take care of her, be there for her and love her.”
Happy Mother’s Day, by the way. You know I’m on your side.
The Red Pill = Knowledge and understanding the rules of the SMP
There’s not really a mandate to live any one particular way after taking the red pill. Some stay married, some refuse to marry, some marry very very selectively.
So yes he does need to take the red pill and take it now. What he does with the knowledge is up to him.
@Jason and all the other guys advising Robinson to ignore me and the other women here
Sending Robinson to those bloggers, men who think marriage is evil and women are holes, is not good advice.
There is some disagreement among the men here. And Stephenie and Ozy have made some good points, IMO. Here’s the thing: Game is on a continuum. Athol and Keoni Galt are at one end, Roissy, Roosh and Frost at the other. Where a man will be happiest depends on his nature, and whether he wants a LTR and eventually marriage. It’s very clear to me that Robinson wants a loving partner, and a true bond. So why would you send him to blogs where that is considered heresy? Or do you aim to convince Robinson that LTRs are only for fools? Why shouldn’t he decide where on that spectrum he feels most comfortable?
Now that’s more like it. The wisdom of Yohami.
I know I’m pretty late and far down the comment list so this may not get read, but in my opinion it is most likely a combination of both Athol Kay and Stephanie’s prognosis. There is no doubt in my mind that there is a neurochemical withdrawal happening in this young man combined with the introspective analysis of his choice of person that he chose to be with.
While I know nothing about vasopressin (but will read about after writing this) I have been around the block enough times with women to know that there is indeed a chemical maelstrom that occurs during relationships to both consolidate the pairing and also to bring about it’s dissolution when the need occurs. What this young man is experiencing is the slow gradual decline of the chemicals that paired him with this woman. I’ve been through it before and am old enough to recognise the symptoms as I’m sure other men prior to me have as well.
The introspective analysis that I believe he is going through is also normal and is actually good as he is moving towards looking for a new mate. This is classic breakup 101 and the subconscious is now taking over to fulfill his needed goal of mate pair bonding. While he may be consciously at conflict about the idea of hooking up and destroying his perceived mores, he’s shit out of luck as the body wants what the body was designed for and well he’s in for a ride.
Is he a little depressed….. IMO yes……… will getting laid help him to stop being depressed……. Yes and No.
I say yes as it will allow him to imagine being with other women and also he may snare a long term mate in the process and chemically erase the feelings that he had with the other woman. As for the no I think I may need to explain it further as it needs further exploration.
I do believe that men whether we like to admit it or not Men take breakups way, way, wayyyyyy harder than women, while society often paints the women who endure breakups with scenes of women with unkempt hair in sweatpants lounging on the couch with her girlfriends surrounding her with a box of kleenex between her legs saying why did he end it? The audience (society) can identify with the woman thinking to themselves “this guy is a pig what an asshole”.
Men on the other hand deal with it another way. Men IMO internalise the identify of the relationship and when it ends we look at ourselves and say “What am I without this other person? What will I be?”
This young man is doing just that now, He is walking around stunned, numb to reality and actively contemplating his self worth in society, looking at his own character and wondering can I become better than what I was inside of the relationship I had? Can I ever hope to be with someone as good or better than who I was with? Will I ever love again?
Sure he may sleep around to erase his pain of this woman but will it erase his pain?
No it will not……….
While I feel for him I’ll just give the advice that has been passed to me from someone, who had it passed to to them who i’m sure had it passed to them, who had it passed to them in a language far older in a civilisation less modern than ours.
What will erase his pain is time, that slow moving ephemeral beast that takes us as babes and turns us to old men and women, that has raised and worn down empires and greater men than myself. Unfortunately this young man who has whether he admits it or not a broken heart just needs to let time do what time does and thats erase the past. He needs the caress of time and in this case not enough of it has passed and well he must endure his pain some more………….
@Denise
Epic comment, thanks for weighing in. I’m always happy to hear the beta-loving women speak up. I fear that many men who take the Red Pill will never believe that women not only want, but need the beta traits. Any woman who doesn’t require that in a relationship is damaged goods. They may be fine for short-term flings, and in that way are perfect for the men who reinvent themselves to be 100% alpha. Blech.
Not taking advice from women is good advice. Put it simple, women dream about landing a good men but are attracted to bad men and reject good men on a daily basis. And then, even if she understand this, a woman usually gives an advice that would work for her. Example, the advice to be quiet and introspective from Ozy.
Wont work. Nobody is going to knock at his door in jerk costume asking him if he wants to have fun and make him feel butterflies until he forget his problems.
When you are a man and are depressed, lonely, introspective, you become a girl anti magnet which only weakens you more. If he doesnt shake this off, Robinson can very much spend the rest of his life ruined by this experience.
He needs the red pill, now. Then he needs to become the man.
And Roissy is full of BS btw.
So get in alpha mood. Get out of your shell. Find your weakness and develop whatever you are lacking.
Getting stuck on a girl that consumed you emotionally is not sane. Heal it. The best healing you can get as a man is abundance and detachment, boundaries management, people skills, etc. So get out there without sourness, just get out there. You dont have to “fuck” girls if they scare you, but you do need to get out of your head.
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Yes to all of it.
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Especially the part about abundance and detachment.
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This really hit home for me because this was me.
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I don’t think FTOW is necessary, but actively dating is absolutely necessary. You have to find out and internalize there are other women in the world. There simply is no substitute for it. You have to find out life goes on without her, and having fun and meeting other women will put her behind you.
@Hope
I’ve been working on a post about “hot bitchy sluts” for the longest time – it’s still not quite right. But I think you are very definitely onto something here. Sluts are like red to a bull. And the girl-next-door never gets noticed much. It’s not in her nature to strut.
There are three categories of response, that I see:
1) (Ozy, sswoods) You are a pair-bonder. Get in place. Do not attempt to change or improve yourself.
2) (Steph, Me, Sue) Take the Red pill, reassess, and choose what you want to do.
3) (Jason, VI) FTOW. Then reassess, and choose you want to do.
#3 is the same as #2 except it’s a bit harsher medicine. Nobody has said “Be a player because LTRs are for fools”, except maybe Abbott.
1. For the same reason I read both HUS and Roissy. Same reason I listen to religious radio despite being agnostic. You can only assess the situation correctly if you read consider viewpoints and decide for yourself. The thing is, most guys are steeped in the feminist viewpoint already, and only really need to open their eyes to the opposite to get them started.
2. I don’t think anyone is, other than maybe Abbot.
3. He definitely should decide for himself.
@Yohami
Megan Fox is a perfect illustration of the difference between guy hot and girl hot. Guys constantly name her as a 10, so she is. Her sex appeal is targeted at men, regardless of her personal preferences.
Personally, I think she looks like a freak – like a kind of female Terminator. She’s had an alarming amount of plastic surgery. There is no warmth or femininity about her whatsoever. She is like a slab of marble. Many women find her gross.
Ozymandias is smart as a whip, and very wise for 19. Listen up and respect her – she knows what’s up between men and women.
Sending Robinson to those bloggers, men who think marriage is evil and women are holes, is not good advice.
There is some disagreement among the men here. And Stephenie and Ozy have made some good points, IMO. Here’s the thing: Game is on a continuum. Athol and Keoni Galt are at one end, Roissy, Roosh and Frost at the other.
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I disagree with this in the sense that information is information. Someone could learn high finance and deal-making to raise capital for great businesses to improve society or package shit together to bankrupt clients, but that is how the person applies the information. I’ll disagree with Yohami that Roissy is full of BS. Honestly, I think the guy is brilliant, but definitely twisted up. I really think of him like a Darth Vader type character. Massive knowledge and power with the force, mostly twisted, with some good in there somewhere (Return of Jedi). You see that in his attempts to help guys get their lives fixed in this area.
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That said some information requires that you really carefully think about how you are going to apply it, and what path you want to go down in life.
@hambydammit
As always, you strike the perfect balance of wisdom, encouragement and pragmatism. Excellent advice for R.
I can tell she is very smart, specially for being 19. As for listening and respect, half of what she is saying comes unfiltered from feminism and is prone to cite the academia and back stuff with external “authority”, so the listening part is down the flush until she can back her stuff with first hand experience
@Yohami
Megan Fox is a perfect illustration of the difference between guy hot and girl hot. Guys constantly name her as a 10, so she is. Her sex appeal is targeted at men, regardless of her personal preferences.
FWIW, I think she is hot, and I think she is a good example that women have a very hard time separating out their perception of the person’s personality from their raw physical attractiveness.
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That said, I’m going to ask that question. This started on a different discussion thread, and I asked my GF so I’d like a few other women to chime in. Prince William. For one second, please try to forget he is a Prince in the uniform. That same guy shows up to your house as a plumber to fix your toilet. How handsome/good-looking is he?
Well, that, Roissy is full of Darth Vader-isms
Since he is the top blogger and there´s no Yoda, he incarnates “game” so game is associated with Darth Vader-isms, with all the angst and womanhating and emotional misfocus. So thats what I call bullshit: you dont have to be a dark night to embrace the force. As far as his insight, I think he is sharp, brilliant and on point. The light of that brilliance is dark though.
Yohami: I didn’t say for him to be quiet and introspective to attract women; I said for him to be quiet and introspective to figure out what he wants. No sense attracting another woman who’s completely incompatible with him. Once he has figured out what he wants, then he should make whatever changes necessary to attract that sort of woman.
I think my tendency to cite things comes from two sources: one, I’m a sociology student, so I’ve been brainwashed into citations
; two, I have a very weird group of friends (I know multiple college students who haven’t had their first kiss) that doesn’t reflect the overall sexual marketplace.
OffTheCuff: I’ll admit he seems like a pair-bonder to me, but I agree with you that he should reassess.
Susan: I blush, truly.
Mike C: I would never, ever, ever, ever fuck Prince William, even if he is a Prince; he is completely unattractive to me. But I’m also the chick who went to a Magic: the Gathering tournament to scope out the hot guys, so you might not want to use me as All Women Everywhere.
Yohami: I didn’t say for him to be quiet and introspective to attract women; I said for him to be quiet and introspective to figure out what he wants. No sense attracting another woman who’s completely incompatible with him. Once he has figured out what he wants, then he should make whatever changes necessary to attract that sort of woman.
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Nope. You don’t figure out what kind of woman you want by sitting in room and pondering. You have to get into the game, and meet and date different girls and experience it. That process is what allows you to figure out what you want.
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Another point is compatibility and attraction are two different things. You can be attracted to someone but not compatible. I think a big mistake (because I made it) is to try and force compatibility when there is a very powerful attraction. I think one thing Robinson has to figure out and again only life experience teaches this is there are women you can go have fun with and women you can forge a deep relationship/connection with. The mistake he made is he had a deep connection with the sort of woman (as he describes her) that he should have just been trying to have fun with. But he didn’t know that because he had no prior sexual experience to draw on.
Mike C: I would never, ever, ever, ever fuck Prince William, even if he is a Prince; he is completely unattractive to me.
Interesting….wonder what some other girls think. Here is the thing with guys. One guy’s 8 might be another guy’s 6 or a 6 be an 8 or a 7 a 5 or a 5 a 7, but at most you are talking 2-3 point spread. No 10 is going to be another guy’s 3. JUST AINT GONNA HAPPEN. But your answer tells me that is exactly the case with women. One woman’s 9-10 can easily be another woman’s 3-4 which to me means obviously women are simply not attracted to pure physical characteristics in isolation. My GF and I got into a debate about this a bit ago when we were watching part of the ceremony and also caught a preview of Thor. To me, the guy who plays Thor is so much more objectively physically handsome compared to William
Mike C:
Actually I always found William very attractive. But is because he shares some of the things I call my type, tall, and he has a type of “dumb smile” that I absolutely adore. My second crush was a kid called Julio on 2th grade and he had the same smile, poor kid could barely keep his mouth shut, but he was the smartest, kindest kid on the class and I had a crush of the size of the moon for him, so I guess I associated that smile with good things and attraction so that is why I like them visually. Tiger Woods had that same smile but I don’t like him anymore for obvious reasons. But then again you know I have strange taste on men.:p
YES YES YES YES YES
HA! And you call yourself a slut? Psssshhhh.
To me, the guy who plays Thor is so much more objectively physically handsome compared to William
I think you are comparing different types of men. Thor is the buff type while William is the lean type.
I mean you are comparing Queen Latifah with Halle Berry. Both have different body types but but have nice face features, I think. Is not the same category.
Compare Willian with another lean type to make it fair, IMO.
Hmm, that’s interesting. I think this might be a case of “what works for one brain doesn’t work for another.” I personally figured out what I wanted in a relationship through a process of thought and introspection over several months, after I got in a stupid stupid stupid trainwreck of a relationship. It ended up getting me a relationship I am far happier with.
You make a good point about compatibility and attraction; I would just like to add that who you have fun or get in a relationship with is different for different people. Some men might want a woman with Christian values; other men want a woman who has worn out two copies of the God Delusion. I personally have a friend (who’s going to room with me next year, actually) whom I really like and had great sex with, but if we dated it would end in axe murder and tears; he’s dating a very sweet girl who actually suits him.
Actually, there is a fairly wide spread for men too. Some men are EWWW FATTIES types; and yet somehow April Flores has a porn career and can sell men models of her vagina for three hundred and fifty bucks.
Susan,
I appreciate you posting my questions. It really is amazing to see the various suggestions from everyone on this blog. You see everything from “go out and have sex with 10 women” to “don’t go out and have sex with 10 women” to “increase your testosterone levels” to “learn how to become an alpha male” to “read Athol’s book”. I half expected someone to suggest that I jump off a cliff, problem solved! I will address these later. You hit the nail on the head (As if you read my mind), I did like who I was when I was with her. I guess you could say that I felt “Alpha-like” at the time. There were three other girls that I was working with at the time that showed a lot of interest in me (I was older and had to train them for field work). A classic case of girls liking guys who other girls like. I chose to pursue my ex because I saw a sprinkle of hope in her besides her troubling ways (atleast thats how I saw them). We lived and worked together for part of last summer and she seemed very responsive to my ideas about life and relationships. I was also responsive to her ideas about being free and open to new things. We learned a lot from eachother. But when she went back to college (I had already graduated), she wanted her old life back. Her friends, guys and drugs were three things that were not around in the summer. Being a fool, I thought I had the power to change her. I held on because I have always refused to let people down when I become close to them. I don’t want to date and have sex with lots of women. I valued my virginity and now I feel like a man who gives into temptation easily (No, I am not religious but neither am I an animal who gives in to all “natural” urges, I prefer to be an animal that demonstrates restraint). Besides our differences, the connection and attraction I felt with my ex was amazing. I sense the law of diminishing return occurring, meaning that the more sexual partners I have, my ability to connect with a mate will lessen. I did project an idealized version of who she was and I think she did the same for me (and was dissapointed when she found out I wasn’t tolerable to her getting high 15 times on some days and “mistakenly” making out with other guys). My values appealed to her, but she had already lived a life and made friends with differing values. I did feel humiliated by rejection and also by the fact that she continued to contact me after she dumped me. I know part of her misses me, but a bigger part of her saw me as a burden to her “liberated” lifestyle. I have decided to retain my values and be more sure about exactly what I want from a woman.
Susan: I’m nineteen, three of my sex partners were casual, and one was a casual sex partner I got into a really, really stupid relationship with. Also, I would quite happily have two partners at the same time, assuming everyone was honest. I think I count.
I just Googled movie-Thor, and he is EW. I am now casting a vote for Jesse Eisenberg, or as my friends have fondly nicknamed him, the Jewnicorn.
(No, I am not religious but neither am I an animal who gives in to all “natural” urges, I prefer to be an animal that demonstrates restraint)
Gina tingle
@OffTheCuff
Whew, I’m so glad everything is right with us again. Happy Mother’s Day to ECT!
Rum,
I never pedestalized this woman. She has average looks and is nothing spectacular. So I should go out and nail 5 chicks? What good would that do? Stroke my ego? Compartmentalize my feelings so then I am unable to feel anything?
Learn to fullfill yourself regardless of whom are you with
Thats the pedestal. As long as you NEED a specific type of companionship, you will attempt to force and project your needs and ideals into the relationship, only to get them crushed.
So, the solution is not to cease to WANT but to stop the need. Get out there and live, form experiences, develop many relationships and let the other persons be what they want. You can propose and lead and set boundaries and attempt to build the relationship you want, but, as soon as you start taking in stuff you dont like or agree on and sacrificing yourself because you need the connection (see, girls, how the CONNECTION and not the PUSSY is what keeps a man hooked), as long as you need her for the connection, you are set up to fail.
Once I stood in a relationship for years because I felt like I was letting her down If I let her on her own. Typical hero / mesias / provider / codependent frame. Its not worth it, the minute its over, she forgets about you and go plays the same game with someone else.
For you to resists those games and learn to be in healthy relationships you need strength and experience.
So it aint about fucking into oblivion so you cant feel anymore. Its about living the life so you can properly feel. Interacting with life and yourself and not with ghosts and ideals and projections, that will ultimately get you hurt and abused again.
PS. making out with other guys by *mistake* LOL.
*lots of misspellings. burp.
Robinson
It is none of my business but if your values are not driven by religious conviction and they show clear signs of being out of alignment with reality – why be so loyal to them? They clearly are not loyal to you. It is almost like your values hate you and want to ruin your life.
Here is a hint: If she was making out with other guys by “mistake” or not she had no respect for you as a man. Regardless of how long she wanted to keep sucking on the attention tit after the breakup. I would rewrite those sentences about 4 times if I could type faster.
Another hint, if your values have been formed by prolonged exposure to formal, academic Feminism my quip about values hating you is not a quip. It is not even a joke. It is not even a warning because it is most likely too late for you.
The trajectory of your love life looks like it is headed towards inhabiting the role of a despised Kitchen Bitch who slowly drains out his mans juice to support the corrupt fantasy-s of a 100 lb. over weight woman who likes herself just the way she is and demands that you do the same – which gives her wide open permission to hate you without limit when you try to do so.
Women hate betas. Surely you must know that by now .Do some of them hate betas enough to actually kill them for sport or spite?
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