First things first: The people have spoken. Everyone’s sick of promiscuity, at least as a discussion topic. Commenters have been saying so all week, and last night I dreamed that SlutWalkers stormed my home like it was the Bastille. So we’re taking a holiday from discussions of a woman’s number, and whether guys like, date or marry sluts. The truth is, they will or they won’t, no matter how much we discuss it here. Suffice to say that we’ve probably said everything relevant, at least for now.
So! Welcome to the fun and interesting Hooking Up Smart, where all the guys and gals are above average!
A while back a reader reminded me that I’d promised a post on great cheap dates. I love cheap dates, even now. I’d much rather cook chili with my husband than go to an expensive restaurant.
Some cheap dates are great for the early stages of a relationship, or when you’re hanging out with a friend who has Heavy P (otential). Many of them can easily be initiated by a woman, and are the perfect way to reciprocate when a man has taken you out. Some work well in groups, others are perfect for two. There’s lots here for daytime, too, which is perfect when you get to that stage where you’re spending 24 hours together sometimes.
Here is a list of cheap dates I’ve been on, and why they were so enjoyable.
1. Flea Market or Antiquing
It’s fun to look at junk that reminds you of your childhood or past. I almost always find something inexpensive to buy. Once I bought Look magazine from 1939 with a portrait of the Duke and Duchess of Windsor on the cover, with advice on “How to Crash the Windsor’s Set.” That magazine still sits on my coffee table. Another time I bought a bunch of Girl Scout badges from the 60s and stuck them on my bulletin board. Conversation is easy when exploring this way.
2. Book Reading
Go to a book reading for an author you both follow. Then you can discuss their writings over a drink or dessert as you enjoy the rush of having been in the same room with someone you truly admire.
3. Drive-in Movie
If you live near one of the remaining drive-ins, go with pillows and blankets and snacks. Or just make out. Warning: cars aren’t made for drive-in comfort any more. No big bench seat in the front, and getting in the back is no good because the headrests block the view. I saw a James Bond film on a date, though, and it was really fun.
4. Revival Movie House
Mr. HUS and I saw most of the Hitchcock films in the theater when we were dating, and they were such fun. Those dates of nearly 30 years ago remain fresh in my mind. We still quote them all the time. “Judy, please, it can’t matter to you.” “Fred, that feed you sold me is no good.”
5. Rent a Boat
I leave near a beautiful glacial pond in the city. You can rent a rowboat or sailboat there for $10, but hardly anyone does. It’s a lovely way to spend an afternoon on a lovely day, very romantic.
6. Oyster Festival
Or whatever festival. The Wellfleet Oyster Festival every October is fun, filling and cheap. Watching those old salts shuck like crazy is amazing. There are still bits of old time Americana around, and it’s fun to see them.
7. Botanic Gardens or Arboretum
Perfect in the early stages of love, when you just want to hold hands and moon over each other.
8. Retro Dining
I recently went to a Sinatra brunch at Lucky’s Lounge and it was great, with live music. Diners are always fun too.
9. Play Tennis
I don’t play, but I’ve had fun just volleying at a local community court. If one of you plays, you can teach the other (This tends to work better if the male plays. Just saying.)
10. Art Museum
I once went to an art museum on a day when it was so snowy that classes were cancelled. It was eerily empty which was kind of cool. Afterwards we got busy in the car, the only one in the parking lot, while the snow came down fast and hard. That was memorable.
Bank of America funds free museum days on the first weekend of every month in many locations across the country, so check. I recommend February.
11. Shop For Food Then Eat It
I’ve done the Farmer’s Market, an Armenian grocery, Chinatown. The key is to share the food together afterward. You don’t want to be going on a date to the Farmer’s Market where you each take home your own mangoes. Charm your date by buying them field flowers like zinnias or sunflowers.
12. Bike Ride
Rent a tandem, it’s really fun. Or go on a nice long ride on a dedicated bike trail. You can have lunch somewhere, then head back.
13. Scavenger Hunt
One of the most fun dates I ever had was going to a birthday party scavenger hunt. We were put in teams, and hilarity ensued. What a great way to meet people! Why not think about planning one, and inviting a bunch of people to bring a date?
14. Sledding
Best in a group, but taking a walk immediately after a snowstorm is really fun for two. Plan on hot alcoholic beverages to follow.
15. Shakespeare in the Park
Bring wine and come early. I had a great time seeing Much Ado About Nothing on a date.
16. Poetry Slam / Open Mic Night / Improv
Usually good for laughs, and often a way to support a friend working on material. It’s a feel good experience all around. Ditto for going to see a friend act in a play or play in a band.
17. Art Galleries
When Mr. HUS and I were living in NYC and broke, we used to walk over the Brooklyn Bridge and all the way uptown to art galleries. We tracked the shows in The New Yorker, and got pretty good at following artists we liked. I can’t say that any gallery owner ever looked pleased to see us, but hey, who cares. Usually, we’d finish up by having a bite or a drink somewhere, then spring for the subway to get home.
18. Driving Range
Golf is addictive. If you play golf, help someone improve their stroke. (Bwahahaha) Again, this may work better with men in the teaching role.
19. Fireplace Picnic
On a cold winter’s night, lay out a picnic in front of a roaring fire. Be sure you are on a comfy blanket, because this always ends in sex. If you’re not there yet, try Scrabble. It’s really fun to play a board game with a date, and you learn a great deal about a person that way.
20. Hike
I don’t mean a namby pamby perambulation. I mean an endorphins-producing work session with a clear goal, like a summit. Climb to the top of something and look at the view. The world seems wondrous at such moments, and that will do wonders for your date chemistry.
21. Break Out the Michelin Guide For Your Own City
Be a tourist in your own city. I don’t mean going to the Empire State Building, though that would be cool. I mean going into a neighborhood and exploring it fully. Read the history, look at the architecture and eat the food.
22. Beach
Going to the beach in general is a pretty good date. It’s especially romantic off-season. There’s something about going in a hooded sweatshirt that is so much fun. Bring your dog if you have one. If not, get a dog.
Off-hours is also good. I’ve had dinner at the beach when everyone had left, I’ve gone for a walk along the water’s edge when the moon was full, and I especially like going early on a Sunday with coffee and the paper.
23. Apple Picking
Go to a farm in the fall and get apples. Come home and make apple stuff.
24. Outdoor Concerts
Often free, a great way to enjoy music in a group. People start dancing, there’s a great vibe. Avoid the massive venues for dates – I’m talking about small, local gigs. Our local art museum has these in the courtyard all summer.
25. Camping and/or Kayaking
I’m past the age where I’ll sleep without indoor plumbing nearby, but I had many great dates back in the day river rafting, kayaking (the flat kind that doesn’t roll over) and camping. It’s a great way for a woman to show an outdoorsy guy that she’s game for doing what interests him.
26. Watch the Game
Invite someone over to watch a specific sporting event. Invite some other people too. Prepare food in keeping with the theme. Serve alcohol.
27. Brunch With Friends
A variation on 26. Ask 5 friends to brunch with a Plus One. Have everyone bring their favorite breakfast thing. Or if you can afford it, ask for requests and make it all.
On New Year’s Eve 1999, I invited people over at asked each one what their favorite food was. I made it all, from cheesecake to sushi to pasta with sausage. Guests brought all the champagne and it wasn’t expensive at all.
After dinner, we watched everyone’s favorite movie scenes of all time, which they’d brought cued up on VHS.
28. Ice Cream
Go to a famous place where you can get wacky flavors like goat cheese brownie or burnt sugar ice cream. Or make it at home from fresh peaches. Or walk to your favorite neighborhood place and people watch while you eat.
Ice cream is always a good, low-key, cheap date. It’s good for when the small gesture is called for.
29. Ethnic Dives
Some of my best dates have been in restaurants that are foreign and cheap. Sitting on the floor and eating Moroccan basteeya or scooping up food with Ethiopian injera are two highlights of cheap eats dates that I recall fondly. The idea is to make dinner out a bit of an adventure. Try something different. Have a shot of grappa. Or try sea urchin in a shot glass. Push the boundaries with someone – you’ll bond over the experience.
30. Family Event
Once the relationship is established, people like being introduced to family. Don’t hesitate to ask a date to a family barbecue, wedding, christening or dinner. I confess I did have one disastrous date of this kind.
Joe Hillenbrand once asked me to his aunt and uncle’s for Christmas Eve. He had no parents, and played the pity card very effectively, which was necessary because he often abandoned his dates in the middle of the evening. I figured that wouldn’t be possible at a family dinner, so I said OK. We had to travel about 20 miles.
Shortly before dinner, Joe excused himself and I figured he was going to the bathroom. He didn’t come back for quite a while. Finally, his uncle went to investigate and returned to report that Joe had apparently left. He had left the premises, and me sitting there with his relatives. He never came back, and his uncle had to drive me home, but made me stay for dinner first.
Worst Date Ever!
In closing, I’ll offer some general guidelines about things to avoid.
1. Don’t go to malls. Shopping in general is no fun on a date. I don’t even like going to craft fairs, because there’s just pressure to buy stuff. Window shopping in the city can be OK, but personally I’d rather walk around the old colonial townhouses than stroll down the street and look in the windows at Tiffany’s.
2. Don’t bring a date to something that he or she is unlikely to be interested in. If you have an esoteric interest like historical war reenactments, that’s great, but don’t drag your date to the newest musket show at the local armory. I once made a guy walk through an exhibit of girls’ embroidery samplers and he was really out of place and bored. Save that for when the other person is in too deep to turn back.
3. Finally, I’m not a big fan of coupons being whipped out on a date. I’m sorry, I love Groupon as much as anyone, but I’m not going to treat someone with a Groupon. It seems stingy even though it’s perfectly rational.
The same goes for inviting someone out for dollar sliders or dollar drafts. Once you’re in a relationship, by all means. I just think watching pennies too carefully early on is a red flag, so why raise suspicion? I’d rather be asked out to fly a kite than to the twofer special at my local falafel restaurant.
The key is effort and creativity, which are always appreciated. Hopefully. If not, no second date.
{ 111 comments… read them below or add one }
Ahh I have done many of these. IC and I shared the passenger seat at the drive-in. We rowed a boat up the yarra, we went to an outdoor screening of a movie I was really looking forward to seeing (The Fantastic Mr. Fox). The first time we played tennis (I am terrible at sports with balls…that’s what she said) I hit the ball and it flew over the fence and hit a kid on a bike. True story.
All I can say is also plan ahead – if you’re going to a movie that is going to be sold out – buy tickets it first. And if you want it to be a surprise, ask your date to dress appropriately. When Mr Slurpee kidnapped me for a long drive and tour of a tiny town, he didn’t tell me we’d be hiking up (a very short but steep) trail…
Camping and fucking in a river at night.
Card / board games parties.
Backstage.
Karaoke bars.
Anything sports, anything cultural that is unusual.
Excellent list! Makes me think of all the good times I used to have with an ex when he wasn’t being sick and evil.
Camping and fucking in a river at night.
You know how many horror movies have this setting of a young couple getting at it in a tent and then the monster/psycho kills both? I don’t think I could try that one. I rather get the tent in the middle of the living room and rent one of those sounds of nature DVD.
A couple of ideas, have in mind that I’m the boring intellectual nerdy type.
Potluck date: Everybody brings a dish, preferably make by themselves to share.
Movie theme night: You pick a theme. Like movies about Zombies. Each brings the movie they though it embodied the theme the most, not more than one and it always interesting to discuss how each movie fulfilled their premise or so. It can be funny to do a “bad movies night” too, so you can make fun of the horrible movies or just bring a MST3K movie, instead you will laugh for hours.
Are these better for sluts or non-sluts.
Good list. I’ve always been a big fan of driving ranges and batting cages. I used to play both sports competitively, so it’s a decent opportunity to introduce her to my interests while subtly showing off a little. Her taking a genuine interest = huge bonus points.
Not to nitpick, but I have to say I recoiled a little bit reading this:
You’re definitely not in the minority here. But it’s really off-putting to know a girl thinks this way. Kind of a “you need to prove yourself” vs “I like spending time with you.” One’s a much easier path to giving guys commitment boners than the other, and I’ll let you guess which one.
It just seems like another meaningless filter that girls use to shoot themselves in the foot.
@Passer By
Dude, you should do stand-up. We’ll come watch for very little money. A day with Passer By on the thread is a day with belly laughs.
Card parties
Potlucks
Karaoke
Theme movie nite
Love it. I haven’t done these but they’re great ideas. Batting cage is good to for a sporty girl
@Jimmy
I wasn’t just talking about guys there. That’s why I said I wouldn’t use a Groupon if I was taking a new person out for a meal. And why I said that I’d rather go kite flying than for a twofer deal. There’s something about discounts that isn’t terribly romantic, somehow. It’s not about money spent, it’s about the appearance of withholding in some way.
Entitled women who want you to spend a lot of money will show their true colors early and should be discarded, IMO. That is why I said that creativity and effort should be enough.
I will say this: If two people are essentially broke, i.e. students like you, it is perfectly fine if one says, “Hey I’ve got a Groupon for that new Indian restaurant, do you wanna go?” I think it’s a glass half full vs. half empty kind of thing. I don’t know, that’s my feeling. Others may disagree.
“Joe Hillenbrand” better be a pseudonym. Does he want to be shamed all over the Internet?
In other news, it was once common for women to go on up to 30 real-life, actual dates.
Ha, I was tempted but no. The real Joe is now a happily married teacher and father. How he became a teacher I don’t know – he was in his 7th year of college when I met him.
My wife’s first date with me was a Shakespeare in the park: Merry Wives of Windsor (though we did have expensive sushi before the play). Our second date was the Van Gogh/Gaugin exhibit, and our third date was skating in the park (and some warm cider afterwards).
.
Lots of those things can also be done very happily after the early dates…we went to the ballpark year ago (she’d never been to one), and it was fun teaching her the ins and out of the sport (and she got to see the home team win, and later win the World Series). For those not baseball oriented, MLS soccer games are pretty good deals (basketball and football are much more expensive).
16. Poetry Slam / Open Mic Night / Improv
Open mic and jam nights is my go to date. In fact it’s a good place to meet people as well!
I can definitely see why anybody would think that way. And as you said, I am a broke college student and tend to view everything from that frame of mind.
With that said, if I’m seeing a new girl and she’s offering to pay (I know, fat chance), I’m going to be more impressed if she takes me to Dollar Margarita Monday than some overpriced Martini bar. Not sure why. Maybe I’m impressed by a display of frugality in a world where both guys and girls show little self restraint in anything. I know that whole situation is obviously a stretch with the girl doing the planning and paying. Just a thought experiment…
But it probably is bad projection and hamstering on my part, though, to think that girls would see it the same way if I was making those same decisions. Just another difference between the sexes. (A feminist somewhere just shed a tear)
/THREAD HIJACK OVER.
Sorry for that Susan, the original post is a great topic. Hopefully there’s more great suggestions on the way.
More posts like these, please. Beta guys with new girls in their lives need help with this stuff!
Good post. Useful stuff.
I went to a revival movie house with a guy friend and watching “Elevator to the Gallows” with him elevated my interest in his potential as a boyfriend. I liked the way he could enjoy watching a black and white movie in a stinky movie house while eating stale pop corn.
Miniature golf. Lots of opportunity for silliness, physicality, and doesn’t depend on skill level. Even better if you sneak a few shots in the car before going in.
I think checking out the local city hall for festivals and activities is also a good way to find cheap ways to spent time together.
Pottery painting: you can pick a piece between 3 to 100 bucks and the fee for the studio for one day of painting with all materials included, is less than 10 bucks. You can sit in a corner with your date, talk while you create a ladybug with army colors and she makes a butterfly. Then you can take it home and have a souvenir for you date and you.
One day cooking classes: Some cooking schools have a one day class, the fees depend on what are you making and location.
Going to book readings seem like Beta behaviour… wouldn’t that decrease my SMV?
And why would Alphas need to be romantic in the first place? They know they’re hot so they don’t need to be romantic…
Susan, regarding several of these but particularly item #6 you might enjoy this:
http://www.theonion.com/articles/nations-boyfriends-dreading-free-event-in-the-park,17654/
Yes, and quite a few of these are multiples. To be fair, I’ve included some dates here that happened while we were living together. So maybe not dates per se.
Be still my beating heart! That sounds like perfection. No wonder she fell for you. I forgot all about ice skating. That is definitely a winner.
As for baseball, I’d love to, but Red Sox tickets are now the most expensive in baseball
I checked out ticket prices in hopes of bringing my brother and his family to a game during a recent visit. $600 a pop for good seats. Yikes. We passed.
@Jimmy Hendricks
Just one more thing: a quality woman who is worthy of commitment will not care in the least about having money spent on her. My husband grew up poor, and was so poor when I met him that we had no fancy dates. We took one camping trip together that I paid for. But he cooked linguine with clams for me on our second date and gave me beautiful $10 earrings for my birthday. He walked three miles to see me in two feet of snow when the buses weren’t running. I could not have asked for anything more.
I could not have asked for anything more.
ITA. My husband used to freelance when we meet and he had to save all his money to visit me, sometimes I had to pay for everything but the plane tickets just to be with him. The truth is that the places and the food doesn’t matter as long as the company is good.
@lafemmeroar
Yes, we’re on the same page there. Sharing old movies with someone is awesome – my husband and I have by this time done them all. All the French films, Fred and Ginger, The Thin Man, you name it. I have to say, Hitchcock remains a favorite.
You know, I think things like this – do you like old films? A certain writer? Broadway musicals? WPA architecture? These are the kinds of things on which compatibility is based. And of course, just being a good sport – like your guy going with the flow in the revival house – that’s worth a lot too, it shows a generous spirit.
Good one! For some reason, I am very good at mini golf. I don’t know why, I’m not a golfer. For this reason, I enjoy mini golf enormously. My husband is a good sport.
Ah, I actually gave this to my husband as a gift three years ago and we haven’t used it yet. Gotta do that, it’s a great idea. I also think one-day cooking classes are also a great way to meet the opposite sex. A woman should take “Super Bowl Menu” and a guy should take “Quick, Healthy Meals.”
What? Hell no! You can be anything you want to be if you bring dominance to the table. If you like smart women, book readings and museums are very good strategies. However, if you don’t like reading, don’t fake it. Find activities that you have reason to believe will appeal to you both.
I guess not. I don’t write for Alphas though. I’m writing for that 80% of men and women who are not having the easiest time of it in this SMP. Whether you’re meeting people at school, through friends, at work or via online dating, cheap dates are often the best with the right person. If a person doesn’t clear the cheap date test, move along.
@Esau
That Onion piece was made even funnier by the fact that my husband grew up near Niskayuna, New York. Thanks for the funny link. At least we can say those women aren’t gold diggers.
I’m English. We don’t date over here. As Russel Kane points out at 03:15
.
Yes, it’s a good one, especially if you need to “help” her on the rink. We had a 3-month gap between first and second dates, otherwise, we’d have been skating in the summer.
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Baseball tickets for winning teams in new fancy ballparks have really become quite expensive. I still remember going to the old Yankee stadium upper decks with the whole family, and it wasn’t too expensive. Of course, minor league games are an option if you have one in your area…they’re wackier for certain…
How about Picnics? I don’t see this one listed. People still do that for dates? Or I’m showing my old age? :p
I don’t want to offend you, but in another article you said you lost attraction to a guy because he stayed up until 3AM trying to catch a particular song on the radio.
Wouldn’t walking three miles through snow have the same effect? The Alpha thing would’ve been to ask YOU to walk to his place since he’s such a great catch (or at least he thinks he is)…
I’m getting a lot of mixed messages here.
I meant, he’s putting you on the pedestal by working so hard to get your love. I thought men should stop putting women on the pedestal… :S
Susan, thanks for the trip down memory lane.
Here are some other simple things hubs and I would do in our college days;
Hiking
Picnicking
Matinee
Go to a coffee shop/pizza shop/Chinese take-out
Free entrance/discount days at the Zoo/Museums
Sledding on a hill (winter), snowball fights, hot chocolate afterwards
Bowling
Biking/play a sport/work-out together
Drive to a scenic place (autumn leaves, mountains, national park, etc.)
Feed the ducks at the park
We also hung out for hours in his car- talking and making out
This is almost painful to read. It reeks of missing-the-old-days. So last century. Don’t you know that a “date” these days consists of time spent fumbling around together on an unmade bed in a dorm room between 3am til dawn after jointly draining down a gallon jug of cheap sangria?
@ Rum
Don’t you know that a “date” these days consists of time spent fumbling around together on an unmade bed in a dorm room between 3am til dawn after jointly draining down a gallon jug of cheap sangria?
Would that be in front of your roommate or do they get kicked out?
Well, I’ve never been on one for a date (other than the winter version) but it’s a great idea. What I would like is to go for an old-fashioned Sunday drive, stop at some lovely natural spot and have a picnic. There is something sensual about eating outside, with your hands.
@Jugo
That’s a good and fair question. Here’s the difference: the guy who stayed up all night was trying to win my affection by doing “chivalrous” deeds. We’d know one another a very short time, I hadn’t really earned that kind of devotion. Also, I had given him a ridiculous shit test that I wanted him to fail. I wanted him to say, “That’s ridiculous, no way.”
In contrast, my husband made that trek for Valentine’s Day, at which time we were head over heels in love, and had been dating for 7 months. In the beginning, he was much less demonstrative and kept me guessing longer than was strictly necessary.
Ah yes, I have many sweet car memories as well. Today kids have it too easy. You haven’t lived until you’ve sat in a car in the middle of winter steaming up windows and hoping no authority figures happen by.
@Rum
OK, granted, there’s no dating in college. But once you hit 22, you’ve got to do something, right? People do get married – there must be some stage between dorm fumbling and bumbling down the aisle.
“Ah yes, I have many sweet car memories as well. Today kids have it too easy. You haven’t lived until you’ve sat in a car in the middle of winter steaming up windows and hoping no authority figures happen by.”
Dammit, I couldn’t find the scene where Marty gets kissed by his mom, but hopefully this never happened in the car of anybody reading this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QzklMXES1BU
This is a great post, nice to see HUS be fun again.
“OK, granted, there’s no dating in college. But once you hit 22, you’ve got to do something, right? People do get married – there must be some stage between dorm fumbling and bumbling down the aisle.”
It’s exceedingly awkward. I recall very few experiences of mine or other people’s formally “dating” in the interim from graduation to about age 25. No one knows the rules, the protocols, even whether something is “a date.”
…with one exception: people you met online, because there’s nothing to do BUT go on a date. If you haven’t even met yet, you can’t take them to your buddy’s house party or something like that. Online dating might be the only thing keeping the concept of “dating” alive.
“To be fair, I’ve included some dates here that happened while we were living together. So maybe not dates per se.”
Well, we know from Athol and others that it’s important a couple spend time together alone on “date” activities to keep the romantic fire alive, so I don’t see what’s wrong with including dates you do while deep into an LTR.
I’ve actually never had a drive-in date, and it makes me sad. I’ve always wanted to smooch it up while the window speaker blares into the car. I have quite a softspot for “innocent throwback” type of dates – drive-in movies,
carnivals (I love state fairs), diners, ice cream, bowling, minigolf. I never got to do them in high school (thank you beta society), and I haven’t really caught up on the list.
The kino opportunities of minigolf are endless.
I never got to do them in high school (thank you beta society), and I haven’t really caught up on the list.
If it makes you feel better once you find your princess you can do all this and will be very fun too. Since we were LTR my husband and I never got to actually date so now we have dates regularly, is really fun and at least you know sex is very likely or at least spending the night
Volumes might be written here, but regularly I’ve gone to ‘flea markets’ & to serious antique shows and often have the unique pleasure of telling the vendors more about their wares than they ever knew before. It’s pretty easy with just a decent idea of & reading of history. Unfortunately, although this has always been a gratifying way to amuse myself and make new friends, it’s just never impressed my wife much, despite being able to do this regularly for well over 25 years now.
But there are plenty of ‘nasty’ surprises possible with these ‘low rent’ options too. ‘Open air’ concerts ruined by noisy neighbors, dog piles of the wrong sort, pets of the inquisitive sort, biting flying insects of any swarm or duration, etc. And the kids today really missed the ‘roomy cars’ that were well, like Rooms you could stretch out in. Or even camp out in for awhile too! Anyone in the back seat might have well been in a different zip code too. ‘Nuff said. ‘VJ’
Rum,
Rum, don’t knock it. The cheap date thing has been my MO recently (described in How to Succeed with Women). It’s been some of the best advice I’ve followed recently. And given the fact that dating is so uncommon in college, if you take a hot college girl on a date, she’s easily swept off her feet (off her feet and onto her back, too). Just saying….
On coupons: from our favorite silly girls’ magazine.
http://www.cosmopolitan.com/sex-love/advice/dinner-date-tips?click=main_sr
“I went out for dinner with this guy, and it was great — we got along well, and there was a definite spark. But when it came time to pay, he pulled out a coupon. I’m hardly a princess, but that totally killed it for me. Am I being too hard on him?”
Normally, guys get bounced on dates because they aren’t interesting, and some logistical factor just serves as the rationalization. But if the guy was good in every other way, she’s absolutely an entitled princess for dropping him because of a coupon. It’s quite possible the coupon was the only way he could afford to take her to a place of that stature (which brings up another point that he shouldn’t be blowing big cash on a first date anyway, shows way too much eagerness too early).
I tire easily of women complaining that men they date aren’t putting in the maximum financial investment they can afford. A boyfriend’s purpose is not to spend money on a girl. But I’ve mostly stopped agitating about the issue. Women complain they don’t have enough dates, then they complain the guys who do take them out aren’t adhering to the protocol of their specialness, then they run to their booty call after the sympathy peck from Poindexter, after which they complain Mr Booty Call won’t commit. It’s as if they are trying to be unhappy no matter how it’s sliced; why should I stand in their way?
If anybody hasn’t noticed, the economy’s pretty shitty, young people especially should be cutting down on the life luxuries so they don’t get accustomed to a lifestyle beyond their means. That’s why this post is great, most of these dates are way more fun than a two-hour dinner anyway.
Nonetheless, the game is clear, and since I like the company of pretty women, I play the game as best I can in accordance with my values. I took a girlfriend to a steakhouse and had a $100 gift card. I got up to go to the bathroom, slipped the card to the waiter on the way, and made sure to grab the check quickly so she couldn’t see half the bill had been written off (which earned me some chivalry points in the process). Had hot sex that night, so hot it made Aunt Rose show up a day early. Everybody was happy. This guy’s faux paus was one of logistics, not of finances.
“3. Finally, I’m not a big fan of coupons being whipped out on a date. I’m sorry, I love Groupon as much as anyone, but I’m not going to treat someone with a Groupon. It seems stingy even though it’s perfectly rational.
The same goes for inviting someone out for dollar sliders or dollar drafts. Once you’re in a relationship, by all means. I just think watching pennies too carefully early on is a red flag, so why raise suspicion? I’d rather be asked out to fly a kite than to the twofer special at my local falafel restaurant.”
Women, the more they change, the more they stay the same.
“If it makes you feel better once you find your princess you can do all this and will be very fun too. Since we were LTR my husband and I never got to actually date so now we have dates regularly, is really fun and at least you know sex is very likely or at least spending the night ”
Discussion around my blogroll has gotten quite heavy lately, even by manosphere standards, and it’s made me wonder, does anybody just fucking have fun with their partner anymore? Guess this is one big yes.
Athol said once that he and Jennifer dated as spouses too – they were long distance for three years, then got married poor so they pounded like deer, cooked dinner and watched TV, maybe not in that order.
Discussion around my blogroll has gotten quite heavy lately, even by manosphere standards, and it’s made me wonder, does anybody just fucking have fun with their partner anymore? Guess this is one big yes.
Yeah I know there is little romance anymore. I was analyzing pop culture the other day and to use a close to my heart example, all the movies that lead to The Avengers (The incredible Hulk, Captain America, Thor and Iron Man) they are separated from their lady loves. Spider man and MJ got separated too, Dicklops cheated on Jean with the White B*tch and less to say about Batman’s love life the better.
I think I could count with one hand the amount of happy couples in fiction in the last decade, is not the same as in real life but it tells you something about what the audience is identifying with. And people blame us Twihards, is like the only freaking happy ending with wedding included we have had inthe 21th century. Even Superman and Lois Lane are separated now, love is dead, probably Joss Whedon killed it.
So to going back to your point, sadly manosphere is full with wronged men, even the ones that are happy are seeing things falling apart rapidly and this stupid women blogging every single inane, selfish, atrocious action they do, doesn’t help at all.
You try to keep reading Athol, he has this snippets of his life that show how happy he is with Jennifer and his daughters and cats, Dalrock is happy too, but he doesn’t speak about his happiness as much as he does. Just remember that is possible is just harder than ever had been.
When I was younger…might be too old for this now….but I used to use Dave and Busters as a standard 1st or 2nd date. Dinner wasn’t too expensive, and then the games and stuff are fairly cheap. Looking back, I actually realized this was a good screening mechanism for girls who can let their hair down, have some fun, and kind of tap back into childhood versus someone who is likely to be an overly serious stick in the mud.
1. Wine tasting. You can sometimes find these not too expensive as they are making the money on selling you bottles at the end. Done this a few times, and it was a good time.
2. Gym workout – Not good for a date 1, but can be good for a date 2 or 3. Works well if you are a fit guy with status in your gym, and the girl is physical/active.
Very true, I don’t think I’ve ever gone out to dinner with someone just to get to know them. Would seem a bit strange & awkward.
However, there’s plenty of places you can meet up to do stuff – art galleries, canals, rivers, picnics in little hidden parks no-one knows of, walking down by train tracks flattening coins..
I’m in a really good relationship right now, all we do is lie around & watch old movies, go walking up mountains & fuck like bunnies. We never argue, ever. Imagine that, if you can. It’s funny how being with her’s coincided with me becoming aware of & concerned about the misandry in our society, but my home life’s like the Garden of Eden, no complaints at all.
@susan
“We’ll come watch for very little money. ”
Yeah, like half a penny. That could be one of your cheap dates.
Sorry, just a slow day and had to amuse myself.
+1 for state fairs, especially if the guy can win the girl a stuffed animal. I’ve noticed that bowling is frequently used in rom coms, and of course in The Big Lebowski – not exactly a date, ha.
go-kart racing is another really great one. Anything that gets her heart racing.
Another idea. Amusement parks. Not cheap, but more likely to get you laid than spending the same money on a fancy dinner.
True! In fact, anything outdoors obviously carries risks around weather. A camping trip that turns sodden is a real drag. Well, I guess you get what you pay for. You can spend $100 a ticket and sit in air-conditioned splendor.
Thanks for the list! There are a lot of great ideas here.
If any of you get the chance, I’d also recommend going on factory tours, if they are available near your area. My favorite one was when I took my date to a Whisky Factory, explored the site with a tour guide, then took part in some free wine/whisky tasting at the end.
When you think about it, a lot of these options easily fall under the heading of “hanging out.” When a guy says “We should hang out sometime” he’ll get a lot farther if that involves walking for ice cream rather than pouncing while “watching a movie.” (By “get farther” here I mean in winning her affection for a relationship. I didn’t write a Cheap Dates list as a tool for Pump ‘n Dump.)
Great idea! This could work with Groupon too. As I said, using a discount is rational. It’s just not romantic. This is another case (like shit tests) where this is just how women are. There’s something about seeking the provider instinct that gets triggered here. I’m not saying it’s a positive trait, I’m just being honest.
They don’t change, that’s the point. The good news for men is, most of us will be quite happy if you bypass the provider trigger altogether and just plan something fun and creative. I don’t think you have much reason to shake your head at female nature if we’re swept off our feet by your suggestion that we climb Mt. Washington for fun, or sleep on the ground
Mr. HUS and I both go pretty flat out during the week, so we usually make dinner together and then read or occasionally watch a program. He watches baseball. Once Friday comes, though, we go into our weekend routine, which is very enjoyable. If it’s a weekend when we’re home, there are certain things we always do. Friday night is movie night. We get comfortable and settle in with a drink after dinner. Exciting, I know. On Saturdays and Sundays, we have coffee outside in the garden and read the papers. Later we almost always take a long walk – 5 miles or so. Then he grills dinner if we don’t have plans to go out. We always have a stayover. It’s a nice life
@Stephenie
Are you creeped out by Jacob’s feelings for Renesmee? I am, I didn’t like that plot twist one bit. I do look forward to the honeymoon though – bruises and pillows ripped apart.
@Mike C
Is Dave and Busters an arcade with food? That does sound like fun – sort of like a carnival brought indoors.
Wine tasting is a really good idea. Actually, going to a local brewery would also be fun. I’ve seen people recommend tours for dates, but that doesn’t wow me, at least in the early days. It would be fun to do in a relationship.
I like the gym workout idea too – I almost put exercise, but I belong to an all-female gym and have never really worked out with a guy. I agree that it’s probably not good for date one, but definitely a good low-pressure way to hang out if you want to see each other again.
@Kane
That is scientifically sound! There’s a famous experiment where guys did better with number closes if they “met” on a high suspension bridge. Adrenalin produces dopamine, and the woman associates that with attraction to you.
Was that a first date? Did she like it a lot too? I recall enjoying a tour of Guinness, but I was with family, not a date.
Dagonet says:
http://thequestfor50.wordpress.com/2011/08/24/fun-trumps-all/
The number one emotion you should be creating on your dates is fun. If a girl is not having loads of fun with you, you will not be having her take your load later. A fun atmosphere makes the girl comfortable, as well as that magic word– haaaaaappy.
Make her laugh, be relaxed, amuse yourself, take in the enviromment together. All these things help create a
fun vibe, and pave her vaj with primal juices.
Guys blow a lot of money on dates with princesses that don’t even end in a kiss because they’ve been told false ideas about dating – that the way to make a woman love you is to blow cash on her. Take the red pill and make all your dates cheap. Try it overtly, as a way of handicapping your game so it’s really you on display and not your money.
Susan,
“That is scientifically sound! There’s a famous experiment where guys did better with number closes if they “met” on a high suspension bridge. Adrenalin produces dopamine, and the woman associates that with attraction to you.”
On Tuesday I tweeted that guys involved in the east coast earthquake should go do a bunch of approaches that afternoon.
“I like the gym workout idea too – I almost put exercise, but I belong to an all-female gym and have never really worked out with a guy. I agree that it’s probably not good for date one, but definitely a good low-pressure way to hang out if you want to see each other again.”
I’m supposed to go out with a triathlete this week. Date 2 may very well be a bike ride.
“Was that a first date? Did she like it a lot too? I recall enjoying a tour of Guinness, but I was with family, not a date.”
I don’t quite, um, “recall” my tour of Guinness if you get what I’m saying…*hic*
Jesus Mahoney wrote:
MO ≡ ?
Poor Kari, he’s struggling with all our acronyms!
MO = modus operandi
Nice list Susan. Lots of things to do when it’s snowing, but it’s ok. In my head I just changed “snowing” to “lightly drizzling” so it applies to my location. I also mentally changed “sledding” to “hydroplaning on an oilslick”.
I liked
Crashing gallery parties is the best. Whenever I see one, I have to stop and help myself to a free glass of cheap wine and have a look at whatever is on display. Actually, I do this like a reflex, whether I’m with another person or not.
Is there going to be an upcoming post where you provide recipes for apple stuff?
Susan,
Excellent list. Definitely more interesting than dinner and a movie (yawn!).
Are you creeped out by Jacob’s feelings for Renesmee? I am, I didn’t like that plot twist one bit.
Not really. He is just going to be Reneesme’s stuffed big wolf toy for as long as she has the mind of a child, imprinting is a mystical link and is only sexual if the imprintee is interested on sex at any point. I don’t think they will end up a couple in the future, though I think this was just a stalling point to allow Jerkob some maturing before he hooks up with Leah in the next books. I could be wrong though, but is kind waaay to much of a coincidence that she is the only one with no love interest at the end of the book,YMMV.
I do look forward to the honeymoon though – bruises and pillows ripped apart.
I advice extra panties if you are going to see it, I saw the leaked video and girl are we in for a treat, also bed breaking sex…*swoons*
On Tuesday I tweeted that guys involved in the east coast earthquake should go do a bunch of approaches that afternoon.
You are a clever guy Mr Badger. I totally agree with some adrenaline is good to make people more open to the opposite sex.
I will also add thematic museums, like a planes museum (I saw kamikazi planes and planes made out of wood frames and WW1 and WW2!), or some of the museums that were originally rich families collecting weird stuff and now they are open to the public. I recently went to the museum of Jurassic technology in L.A. and it was very fun.
http://www.mjt.org/
Love this list. The best first date I’ve ever been on involved renting bikes and riding along the Santa Monica pier.
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In response to these statements:
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“I’m English. We don’t date over here.”
“Very true, I don’t think I’ve ever gone out to dinner with someone just to get to know them. Would seem a bit strange & awkward.”
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I find this very interesting, as my friend who studied abroad at Nottingham for a year claimed to notice that guys in England are more girlfriend oriented, and this was the college guys she was referring to. Would you agree with this statement?
Love the list, love the suggestions in the post.
Long ago, I disabused myself of the notion I had to spend a lot of money on the first date. Really hated spending a lot of money on a first date only to find out she’s not interested in me. For me, the time to spend a lot of money on a girl is very definitely *after* she and I have qualified ourselves to each other, not before. First dates should not take long; they are about the opportunity to check each other out on a personal level, that’s it. Not saving the world, not solving her problems or mine. So I will spend a few bucks as necessary on a first date: if it goes nowhere, then no feeling bad I spent so much money. I won’t do coupons in front of her either although I have used them to get discounts on museum tickets which I obtained before the date.
Some of the date ideas in this thread that involve more than a few bucks really belong to some subsequent date. That said, the onus is on me to make it a good time and that helps to get the dopamine going.
I like museums a lot, they are one of my favorite places. I’m normally an introvert without too much to say, but it’s almost impossible to run out of conversation topics in a museum. It’s a good test too because if I do run out of things to say, it will probably mean she didn’t really get into the environment or we’re not clicking or both.
@Random Angeleno
I know this is a cliche by now but….+1 to you.
Dates should be about exploring personalities, not about showing off your assets of whatever sort (taken in both senses of the word) – at least not if you’re looking for anything more than a booty call or brag-to-your-friends story.
ResrieG,
I think there is a lot less of the displaying-of-wares that seems to be taken for granted in American culture. If you go out to a meat-market nightclub you can most likely meet someone for a one-night stand, but otherwise it’s much more common that you meet someone & get to know them & then see how it goes. As I said, to me the inviting someone you’ve just met out for dinner would seem forced & artificial, too obvious & blatant.
Might be different for college-aged boys, though I imagine there’s just a lot more hooking-up. The men I know tend to either have girlfriends or they don’t. I don’t know anyone who ‘dates’ as such.
Actually, now that I think of it, a couple of guys I know turned (in desperation) to computer dating, if that counts. They got themselves a couple of cool artistic eastern european beauties. Both are now very happy & content, I was surprised (but happy) to find. One got married last year.
@Jamie
Funny you should say that. I have so much to share that doesn’t fit strictly into the dating/relationships slot. One is my best recipes of all time. My daughter asked if I would make her a cookbook of all the foods she’s grown up on, and I thought it might be fun to put those recipes up here too. I’m requesting that in the new blog design – categories for other lifestyle things like cooking, decorating on the cheap, etc. In the meantime, I promise to put up my favorite apple recipes in September. I have an awesome homemade applesauce recipe and a great apple cake. Also, hot apple sandwiches for when you’re sick, kind of like apple pie croque monseiurs. I’m not much of a pie person, but I make a great apple crisp.
@Stephenie
So do you think RPatz and Kristen are a couple? Because that will make the sex scenes sizzle. From what I read, they are definitely together, it’s not even a question. Lucky, lucky girl. I think he is beyond gorgeous.
@Random Angeleno
Welcome, thanks for leaving a comment.
The best dates are ones that make conversation easy. I’m very extroverted, and it often falls to me to keep conversation going in groups. It’s exhausting. My husband is quite introverted. For us, it’s great to take something in and then talk about it. Museums are great, art films, books, even the news of the day. It’s good to have a focus. I’ve never been on a first date in a formal restaurant, but I think it would be deadly. All that sitting up straight and waiting while the waiter refills the water glass. So stiff! I’d much rather do something cheap and informal. In fact, in my experience, expensive, formal dates, e.g. the ballet, Broadway show, hottest new restaurant are deadly early in a relationship. If I had one piece of advice it would be: Cultivate laughter. Plan a date where there will be an opportunity to be irreverent.
So do you think RPatz and Kristen are a couple? Because that will make the sex scenes sizzle. From what I read, they are definitely together, it’s not even a question. Lucky, lucky girl. I think he is beyond gorgeous.
The only reason Rpatz auditioned for Twilight, was because he knew Kristen’s work as an indy actress and she was the first one cast as Bella and he “respected” her so much that he wanted to work with her. Yeah I’m sure they “respect” each other a lot, everyday, 24/7, in their trailers,in adjoining hotel rooms, in Christmas, in London, in L.A….So yeah they never had said out loud but if they are not banging each other they are banging each others bodyguards at the very least.
But you know most people think that actors that are couples are terrible together, so is odd that you say that. Anyway you won’t be disappointed,;)
Also I cosign cooking tips and recipes. I love cooking and I would be happy to learn more dishes for the hubby and eventually the kids and of course for me.
Susan Walsh wrote:
Yes!
Poor Kari. ☹
I have a friend whose last boyfriend took her to Keeneland and showed her how to place a bet on a horse. I think she even won a few dollars.
From all accounts, it was a really fun date–and one she hadn’t expected, which was a bonus!
@Bellita
That’s actually a great idea. I’ve never been to a racetrack – I think that would be really fun. However, I once was on a date when the guy crossed his leg over his knee, revealing the underside of his shoe. It was absolutely plastered with tickets in blue, yellow and red. I figured it had to be a racetrack, and I considered it a red flag at the time. (Later I checked the other shoe – same story.)
@Susan
I’d worry a little about that, too–for different reasons. I once had a Home Economics teacher who recommended that we check out a man’s shoes whenever we meet him for the first time, because they will be the most honest first impression we get.
(Then one of my more mischievous classmates asked which of the men in the faculty room had the most impressive shoes. Our teacher said the Economics teacher did, and all we girls giggled at the idea that such a nerdy man was “good husband material.” But you know, about ten years later, I see that she was right!)
Anyway, I regularly check the bottoms of my shoes and pull off any stickers that end up there, so it would be really jarring if I saw my date had several stickers–in three different colors–underneath both his shoes!
You missed out science museums! Sounds nerdy as hell but they have ginormous bubble blowing machines and giant trampolines. Plus it’s free entry and informative. Best. Date. Ever.
Back when I was in college we were all poor and knew it, so nobody I knew minded going to the discount theater. Do they even have those any more?
I went a couple times with guys who took me to scary movies. I can’t do scary well, so looking back I can see that there was a lot of unintended (on my part) kino, what with all the clinging, clutching and burying my head in his shoulder.
After my second scary movie (and subsequent sleeping with the light on for two nights), I stopped them all together. No more scary movies for me!
ExNewYorker, On your Shakespeare date did you re-enact that famous line from Act III, Scene II?
You know, where you call her Mrs. Page and ask her to name your dickens?
LOLOLlololzer.
I grew up in Pittsburgh. The canals catch on fire there.
If I asked a girl to “walk along the canal” with me and she said yes, I’d assume she was going to have me murdered and dumped in the sludge.
I do miss England. I’ve only spent a few weeks total over there, and I’ve been meaning to go back for years.
I’m a history junkie, and I’d go on a date with a gay dude if I could walk along the Thames, past the Clink, HMS Victory, and across the Tower Bridge.
I might even put out.
The best date is the short date. People are confused about what a date should be. It should be where you get to know someone for long term dating. The goal is to get to the next one, the second date, then the third date, the fourth, etc. until you make it to 3 months, then 6 months, then one year. After one year, you should know if you will marry. If not, then break up.
Dating is not casual.
My recommendation for a cheap first date is Starbucks. Coffee is $5.00 or less. If it makes it to the 2nd date, you can get a dinner date at an affordable place. By the third date, up the romance part with a walk in a park under the moonlight. More money should be spend as you get to know your women’s interests. The guy should always pay except after the 3rd date when the woman should occassionally offer or plan the events.
The problem with dating is too much money is spent on the first date with a perfect stranger. I didn’t learn this until my second marriage. I decided I wasn’t going to be a chump this time and I was willing to try something completely different and get what I want rather than compromise with all that high and mighty white knight syndrome. Chilvary isn’t rewarded these days so why not look out for yourself. A man needs his self-respect. Women need it too.
“After one year, you should know if you will marry. If not, then break up.”
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Clearly my college brain couldn’t read such a serious statement without freaking out, as I see marriage as something 6-10 years in the future. I guess I can understand if you mean that after a year you should know if you could see yourself spending the rest of your life with someone…but to say that the two of you should know without a doubt if marriage is actually going to happen? Seems to me like not all situations can be that idealistic.
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To compare: After a year of being in a specific major, you should know if it’s the right choice for you based on your skills and interests, essentially your “compatibility” with it. However, even after three years in a certain major, you can’t be certain that you’re going to end up in a career related to your major. Does it mean you should have switched your major after a year? No, because you learned something valuable, [hopefully] had a good experience with it, and couldn’t predict the future to tell what shit was going to happen down the road to lead you away from this initial choice. Something I’m currently learning the hard way.
Johnny,
That’s not true. I’ve been dating quite a bit, and it’s all been casual. And while I agree that dates should be cheap when you’re getting to know someone, Starbucks lacks any real flair… I mean, who hasn’t been to Starbucks a bajillion times? Starbucks is a good place to meet girls, but I would look for some out of the way places. A coffee shops good, but make sure it’s something off the beaten path…. Ice cream’s good, too, but make sure it’s not Carvel or Friendly’s. A bar’s even okay, but make it something with a twist: live jazz music, for example. Make it something she wouldn’t experience on her own. You want something out of the ordinary.
Hey, Resreig. Lots of things I’ve been wanting to say to you, but you’re rarely on. Re: my 2 date rule. If a girl’s holding out past the second date, it probably means she sees me as having relationship potential. That’s a killer for me, since I don’t want a relationship with anyone anymore. And it works for everyone, since I don’t mislead the probably less than 5% of girls who’ve never hooked up casually… and I don’t break the hearts of girls who are looking for more with me. And it works for me, since I’m not spending time and effort working a relationship with a girl who’s devalued herself on the alpha cock carousel.
All the time I used to spend trying to cultivate relationships, is now being spent on cultivating good friendships. Friendships are easier, since I don’t have to concern myself with their sexual value at all. I can be friends with sluts and man whores and even hookers and porn stars if I want.
The point is, long term romantic relationships suck. They’re not worth it. At least not in our culture.
@ Jesus
What I mean by casual is the definition of casual dating…. sex and all. Dating should be taken seriously by knowing the goal is a long term relationship. You’re not playing a game.
Going for coffee is a casual date, while not putting on excessive pressure to have a minding blowing outcome.
@RG
6-10 years is much too long into the future. Believe me, your options are less. Instead, you should be freaking out about your lack of fertility after 30.
Since you’re still in college, I’ll prefer to say the 1 year rule applies after you graduate; however, since you’re just starting you career, you shouldn’t marry until 2 years later. Any longer, your options are more restricted.
Jonny,
No, I’m playing a game. The goal’s not a LTR for me.
I agree. I also think that formality in general puts a damper on things – it’s hard to be spontaneous and vivacious when the waiter is hovering nearby with a replacement bread roll. I may not be typical of females, but I feel more obligated if a man shells out money very early, and not in a good way.
I agree with this with the caveat that none of this applies until after college.
“6-10 years is much too long into the future. Believe me, your options are less.”
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Ha. Truth hurts.
6-10 years doesn’t refer to the time when I’ll begin thinking about dating someone marriage worthy. In fact, I hope I find a boyfriend who I could see myself marrying well before I’m 26. But if I am lucky enough to meet this guy when I’m 22 or whatever, I just think I could see myself wanting to wait until we’re more established in our careers/have had time to live together/have experienced most of the travels and life experiences we desire before getting married. If a long engagement is the answer, so be it.
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“Instead, you should be freaking out about your lack of fertility after 30.”
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This statement assumes a desire to have kids. That may be most women’s dream, but it’s not every woman’s.
@Jesus,
Well I guess the two-date rule is pretty efficient, since you don’t want anything long-term. It’s a shame that you seem to have become so jaded about relationships though. I wish I could provide some encouraging words without being cheesy, but my observation of the shortage of long-term relationships on college campuses makes me a poor candidate for that.
Res,
I’m actually happy with my decision to forgo relationships, so it’s all good. But thanks all the same.
I hate to say this, but if you don’t want kids, don’t marry. I say this politely. Funny thing is, women seem to want kids despite their marital status. To a guy, most take marriage seriously and they really don’t have a desire to have kids until marriage. They like their freedom to choose who they want to marry and have kids with rather than have it imposed from their flings.
I also think that if you don’t want kids and the man shows any desire to want them, you must break up with him. It is only fair for him that you show some maturity.
I think marriage with no kids is just advanced shacking up. What the difference? You’re really not moving forward.
I don’t think so. I think Marriage without kids takes the sting out of being alone when you’re old and wrinkly. It gives you someone to share a stateroom with on a seniors cruise, someone who will take you out to dinner at Denny’s at 2pm, someone to help you find your glasses and your teeth and to stand in line with you at the DMV to get your handicap placard. Besides, tell that to all the couples who wanted kids and couldn’t have them.
Okay. Obviously you shouldn’t get married if your significant other isn’t on the same page as you about having kids.
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But to say that couples who decide they don’t want kids are wasting time if they get married? Is this to suggest that the purpose of getting married is so that you have someone to reproduce with? Given that it’s quite possible to have kids out of wedlock, I was under the impression that the purpose of marriage was to make a lifelong commitment to the person you love. But then again I’m single, what do I know.
I may not be typical of females, but I feel more obligated if a man shells out money very early, and not in a good way.
The same here, as a rule a man doesn’t spent tons of money he could be using on something else in a woman he doesn’t desire to have sex with, except for relatives.
I agree with this with the caveat that none of this applies until after college.
I don’t know Susan given that many college girls here cry to heavens above that they can’t help but to sleep around with men while in college and asking restriction is mysoginist and oppresive I say that marrying your college girlfriend that had been with you during the years she will probably have more chances of riding the cock carousel with as many men as she wants to is a sign that she is a keeper and capable of honoring a marriage contract with faithfulness and prudence. I will say that any man that finds a worth it woman like Saywhaat shouldn’t let her go, because he might be get his heart stomped in the bitchland of dating by the other women that did the carousel while they could and later are willing to lie and mislead to get a chump to put a ring on it, YMMV.
Besides, tell that to all the couples who wanted kids and couldn’t have them.
Different situations wanting to have kids and have an outside of your power situation to prevent you from it, is not where near that using your power to not have children. That being said I think it depends on every couple to decide of marriage is worth it without kids ever being in the picture.I do agree that it should be stated clearly from the very begining though. I know a couple of women that never wanted children and got married either way, then started to use excuse after excuse till they reached menopause, some even got pregnant and got secret abortions. Another shitty thing to do to men, but who cares as long as a woman gets what she wants, right?
I disagree strongly. Marriage is a meaningful commitment, it’s a promise. As much as we complain about the divorce rate, it’s a much lower percentage than the split between people living together.
When I married I planned to have children, but I would have deeply resented any claim that my relationship and commitment was “less” in some way without them.
True! Sometimes the good ones do get snatched up early.
A marriage is beyond 2 people. It always was and it was true in history. When two people marry, they join 2 families together. It is one thing for an infertile couple to not have children as in the cases of late marriages. Its a totally other thing for a couple to intentionally not have children. Statistically, I read 89% of married couples have children.
The commitment to be faithful to your spouse is one of many commitments. I do know of couples who intentionally do not have children. It seems like one person really doesn’t want it while the other person goes along with the decision reluctantly. Life is short. It is cruel to make such a decision while you’re still capable of having kids. Maybe you should marry after 40.
What good is a promise if either person is free to stop honoring it at any time for any reason (or lack of one)?
That’s like If I go from working as an independent contractor with a company, to signing a lifetime contract with that same company, but it stipulates that they can terminate me at any time without having to give a reason for it. Am I really any better off or more secure than before? Sure, we can celebrate the contract signing, shake hands, and even throw a party… but at the end of the day that’s all useless to me.
I’m not anti-marriage, but I think our culture and laws have done a pretty good job of killing it. To me, it just seems more of a tradition than anything practical or beneficial.
Cheap is the magic buzzword of today’s economy.
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