Reader VJ posted a comment today, a field report of a group of women he observed while out with his wife. VJ is an old married like me, but a keen observer of human nature and the changing nature of the SMP. VJ has a way with words that is unique and very humorous.
Here’s his peek into the real-life over the top narcissism of a small group of 20-something women:
“I saw this while out at a trendy Atlanta restaurant with the wife this past Sat. It was a small clique of gals in their 20′s dressed to the 9′s at Prime Time on Sat night, sitting at the next table. On a Date. With each other! Amazing to witness. And they could not stop taking photo’s of themselves smiling and camping/vamping for their camera phones and then posting about their fantastic night out onto their FB pages. Like every 5 minutes or so. Replete with their ‘reaction shots’ of their faces to various things said via their FB pages. All damn night. The wife’s comment was ‘if they’re actually after some guys, that’s a strange way of going about it’. Sure.
But this is what ‘dating’ has become. Dates with your pals, where you tell the world how much FUN! you’re having, & how much fun you ARE! Constantly via Twitter or FB etc. It’s all about Just wonderful you. The narcissistic development & ideology here was enough to start several ‘reality’ shows. All of them looked decent enough, even if squeezed uncomfortably into party dresses that clearly no longer fit well their more expansive frames. No matter, they were quite convinced of their own Fabulous-ness.
How clueless the entire set was became obvious as they tried desperately to vector in another friend who was literally a Block away up the street, but nevertheless took a whole half an hour to painfully direct to the premises with more than half a dozen hilariously silly phone calls. Google maps proved useless, evidently it does not cover parking lots. Saying ‘it’s just up the damn street you git’ also never occurred to any of them. Nothing seemed to work. Not landmarks, not the direct address. And you literally could have thrown a stone from here to where the clueless sister was. But she eventually showed up. Even larger than the original set, and much less stylishly so, as it’s difficult to do that size in any dress, really.
The entire talk of the table was about parties they’ve attended, were going to attend or trying to get into. And how they could scam their way into more ‘hipper’ ones. With a side order of the denigration of marriage in general, and of the marriage of an acquaintance in particular. It was amazing to witness it all, and be brought back over the years to the angst of what yes, bubble headed bleached blonds consider ‘conversation’ or even a ‘fun night out’. Frightening actually. Not much has changed. So my take away from all of this? Should it matter to anyone or even the gals mentioned here, (who were oblivious and likely would care not)?
1.) If you seek or desire a LTR with someone of the opposite sex? Go to places where you might encounter them, and actually have a conversation with one. That might be a good start.
2.) Don’t get too lost in self to where you can no longer realistically relate to others ‘outside’ your own small clique or world. This is the 21st century. You’re not likely to meet, marry or mate exclusively with someone inside your own small ‘circle of friends’/cliques. Believe it or not.
3.) The above may not seem to matter much to many 20 somethings, until it does. At 30 something? It’s much harder to find a ‘decent prospect’ than at 20 something. Ditto for 40 something. You too can be oh so fabulous and accomplished and still be considered pretty& beautiful. But it’s still going to be work, and much more work at later ages. But for now, ‘no eternal reward will forgive you now for wasting the dawn’, or the pretty on drunken escapades. Even the perfectly chaste ‘fun’ ones with just your gal pals every Sat. night. Ditto for the guys. It’s just not very attractive for anyone out of college long.
4.) The explosion of the narcissistic self involvement of our younger generations may well spell disaster for any future considerations of family. Families require sacrifice for the young & very old. That’s impossible to contemplate for many due to their overweening concerns for self above all.
So ask not ‘why don’t I have a BF.’ It’s that you really don’t evince any concern or attitude towards wanting or desiring one. No, not really. Your ‘adult’ desires remain forever undeveloped, whether or not you actually desire children. You can no more claim to actually have a care or concern for others if you’re constantly so self involved as to pay more attention to your phone than to your fellow guests & friends you’re dining with. For whom you dressed for too!
Cheers, VJ”
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I notice that VJ didn’t report a single man approaching the gaggle of women. That is very telling in itself.
I have noticed that it is getting rarer to find young men and young women in complementary distribution. I see a lot of young women in shopping malls, fru-fru bars, and salons/spas. I see a lot of young men at car shows, comic book shops, and sporting events. It is as if they inhabit different cities, like in China Mieville’s latest book, The City And The City”, where different classes inhabited the same physical space but had agreed not to acknowledge each other.
Anyway, the female bonding should serve them in good stead for their manless futures:
[img]http://www.askmehelpdesk.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=26013&stc=1&d=1256816181[/img]
Jesus christ, that picture was not what I wanted to see first thing in the morning. Can you have a nightmare while you’re still awake?
Young American women have behaved this way for years when they had a night with their female friends. So what is new?
This post remembers me the news where Ricky Martin told the world that he was gay. What was new? It was like Obama saying he is black.
Holy crap! These are not clothes! These are their tits painted!!! Please MuleChewingBriars have mercy of the readers of this thread! Instead of embedding the picture, a link with a disclaimer (“not safe for sensitive people”) would have been great.
Yep, that’s the kind of thing I’ve only ever encountered on solvents.
That’s very true. It does seem that in our time men & women are understanding – & sadly, liking each other – less & less. I think perhaps with the limitless distractions of the information age, consumerism & now the internet, westerners can surround themselves with an echo chamber of their own little pampered hobbies & interests, without having to venture into the real world of all that conflicting experience out there.
Instead of being brought together by technology (& the feminist age, for that matter), we find we are drifting further & further apart. Internet pornography has now become an enormous part of practically every young males inner world, sexual life & development, yet is almost completely beneath the radar of most women, who are off getting lost in romance novels, Twilight, Sex & The City & Ally McBeal. Which are, conversely, off the map of most men. It’s getting harder & harder for those two camps to even speak to each other & make sense.
We look at the same world yet we see different things.
where different classes inhabited the same physical space but had agreed not to acknowledge each other
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There is an unspoken agreement [and enforced with the word "creep"] in the West between women and men, where only thugs/players have free reign.
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it is getting rarer to find young men and young women in complementary distribution
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AKA “the harem” where women foolishly deny they are sharing a small subset of men for sexual services. The denial acutely escalates when their desperate focus becomes marriage and only tumbleweeds roll on by.
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The interesting thing is that while it often appears that nearly all women are now waiting past their 20s to marry, this is still very much the minority. What these women aren’t aware of is that their quicker to the draw sisters are quietly hunting and bagging all of the best potential husbands in their age category. The Sex and the City gals (real and imagined) don’t feel like they are being left behind because of the self selected group they are part of; plus they still get all of the attention they could want when they go out to the clubs. But the coolest guy at the bar seldom makes for a good husband, in the rare case that he is interested in marriage (or the even rarer case that he is looking to marry a reformed party girl). While this will no doubt work out just fine for many of these women, waiting to be the last in your cohort to pick a husband isn’t always a good thing; for some reason the women who chose sooner tend to lack the common courtesy of leaving the best ones for others.
We are of course seeing far more women delaying marriage in their 20s than ever before. Even so, the majority of 25-29 year old women in the US have already married (per 2010 Census). I’ve shared this in chart form here for white women. Only 43% of white women 25-29 have never married. For 25-29 year old women of all races combined the number is lower, but still less than half haven’t married (48%).
Is this a case of Louis CK’s Girls vs Women distinction?
Single Girls just want to have a laugh with their friends, take duckface pictures to post on Facebook, get drunk, dance and flirt. Sex is not a priority for them. Marriage and kids are not even on their agenda.
Single Women are a different story. I’ve met lots of single Women since I joined a Meet Up Group based in [University Town].
I won’t pour scorn on the women who didn’t socialise much in their 20s and 30s, because they do have something to show for it. Money and a career. Two things I lack at the moment!
Of course, there were also the older divorcees with kids at the Meet Up BBQ I attended, but I didn’t find the Eat, Pray, Love crowd there at all.
I’m going on a Pub Crawl with the Women from Meet Up this Saturday. It should be an eye-opener!
Duckface!
As repulsed as I was, I got in close and stared at that photo for about two minutes. I don’t understand how American culture is successfully exported anywhere.
I think the level of narcissism is getting worse, and social media plays a key role. I’m not sure which came first, but VJ describes an evening designed to produce envy on Twitter and Facebook, a pretense of fun. In reality, what’s fun is pretending to have fun, apparently. All photos are posed, with women making duck lips and holding their cameras high above their heads to take their own photos. Often one will make the tired gesture of a peace sign behind someone’s head. All treated as a roaring good time. It’s common to look at a group of women in a restaurant and see a moment of silence as all text independently on their own phones.
@Dalrock
And those quicker to the draw women aren’t necessarily more attractive. There’s the weak bidders/strong bidders theory:
In any auction, there will be “strong bidders” and “weak bidders.” Strong bidders are very confident of their ability to win the auction. However, weak bidders understand they can be outbid and often bid more aggressively, while the strong bidders hold out for a great deal. Empirical studies of auctions show that weak bidders often win. In dating, a strong bidder is a woman who feels very confident of her ability to attract men, while a weak bidder knows that she is less attractive and faces stiff competition.
http://www.hookingupsmart.com/2011/01/25/hookinguprealities/the-new-sex-math-probabilities-and-opportunities/
The point is that a woman who is focused and willing to take some responsibility by signaling interest early, with a minimal checklist of requirements, is going to fare better than these women who repeat the same unproductive “dates” with themselves every single weekend and wonder where all the good men have gone.
@ MuleChewingBriars
That picture is the most compelling argument I’ve ever seen for atheism. Ewwwwwwww!
OT: There does seem to be some sort of gender war between the two sexes. A few weeks ago a (quite nosy) male acquaintance asked my friends and I whether we trusted the majority of guys our age and vice versa to his male friends to while away the time and just for his own amusement.
All the girls unanimously said that they distrust men with some going as far as saying all men are filth until proven otherwise. I, on the other hand, kept quiet and casually sipped my hot chocolate waiting for the impending shitstorm. When pressed for answers they blamed a) absent fathers or b) emotionally or sexually abusive stepfathers or c) being cheated on by seemingly sensitive and kind boyfriends.
The guys then said that this was partly the girls’ fault for choosing to date men of bad character which I thought was a fair comment. The girls responded in kind by saying that all the past cheating girlfriends who took emotional advantage of them were also then acquitted of full responsibility for being heartless bitches. The girls (quite rightly) said that the boys must also then accept being called bitch-enablers for dating those girls but for some reason the guys would not accept this. Non sequitur! It doesn’t work that way, they said. Pretty dishonest imo. The male ego is kinda annoying at times.
Anyway, then it sorta half-heartedly steered onto the fact that many British girls are entitled princesses who, despite being stunningly average, still expect Prince Charming to swoop in and save them from the average male student. Another more than fair comment. One guy then mentioned that the average British woman is 5’4 and wears a size 16. For illustrative purposes, you can Google ‘size 16 woman’ and you will, in fact, see a big lady wearing a bikini with St George’s flag on it. That, my friend, is one of the British finalists for Miss England. Miss Surrey to be precise. Interestingly enough, the guys were full of praises for European girls, particularly the Scandinavians, so I doubt it has much if anything to do with feminism by the way.
Female response: “Our reputation as chubby drunkards in the Mediterranean and the Balkans is your fault! Rah rah rah, you’re no Hugh Grant yourselves!” x10. Also kinda true.
After that, the discourse went heavily downhill in both quality and honesty, and it wasn’t long before people were accusing each other of being pigs and dykes so everyone went back to moaning about results day.
The current SMP is more or less an epic but retarded version of the Israeli-Palestine conflict imo. Each side thinks it’s the victim and the only innocent party present whilst rationalising any aggression by their own rank as retribution or self-defence.
But on the upside, that hot chocolate was really really ridiculously good. :O
@Johnny
Wow Louis CK is blowing up. That’s a pretty funny video. You know what’s wrong with the females VJ saw? They’re not even in transition to women. They’re still doing the Girls Gone Wild thing. As 30 approaches, that’s just painful to behold.
“This is the 21st century. You’re not likely to meet, marry or mate exclusively with someone inside your own small ‘circle of friends’/cliques.”
Actually, I think modern times make clique behavior much more feasible than it was in traditional societies. G K Chesterton made this argument:
“The man who lives in a small community lives in a much larger world. He knows much more of the fierce varieties and uncompromising divergences of men. The reason is obvious. In a large community we can choose our companions. In a small community our companions are chosen for us. Thus in all extensive and highly civilized societies groups come into existence founded upon what is called sympathy, and shut out the real world more sharply than the gates of a monastery. There is nothing really narrow about the clan; the thing that is really narrow is the clique….The men of the clique live together because they have the same kind of soul, and their narrowness is a narrowness of spiritual coherence and contentment like that which exists in hell”
This is good analysis, hadn’t thought on it in that much depth before: “what’s fun is pretending to have fun, apparently.”
Btw, guys evidently do find the hideous duckface attractive because those are the girls who have a soft-harem of men chasing them around in my experience and not just any kind of man too, but the goodlooking and intelligent ones. Wear a bandage dress, drown yourself in mascara and bronzer and you’ll have a boyfriend of ‘meh’ calibre before the month closes. The hell? Why the disparity, gentlemen? Is it because they look easy? They’re not actually easy tbh. They’re frigid teases and quite proud of it so what is their appeal?
Mind = boggled.
Susan,
Re: Strong bidders, weak bidders, probabilities, etc.,
Once a person, male or female, gets out of school, the older he/she gets, the smaller the pool of potential dates/mates there is to choose from, unless one wants to date those considerably younger than themselves. Those who get into the game early, and play it seriously have a distinct advantage over those who take their time.
And nobody, nobody, seems to want to tell you that when you are young. Instead, they say, “oh don’t worry. you’re young, you have lots of time.”
VJ made some funny observations and told a great story. Sure, those 20-something cupcakes are all footloose and fancy-free now but something on the horizon is going to gobsmack them something terrible.
Baby rabies.
When the desperate need to spawn surges, a woman’s life changes enormously. Just as a man has a biological urge to stick his magic joy stick into a cosmic bonus hole, a woman develops a biological urge to fill her womb with new life. All sorts of behaviors change and it’s hilarious to see and experience. Well, for me anyway, I’ve had a vasectomy and I don’t tell anyone about it
[Back off you childfree types, this ain't about you]
Such 20-something dames having a girls night out is like watching 1st graders in the sandbox. It’s social play, nothing more. But sadly, the narcissistic behavior continues even when the baby rabies take hold.
Isabel,
it’s in spite of the duckface, not because of – a physically attractive girl will get a lot of male attention, even if sitting in a pool of her own puke. Youth, health & fertility can convince men to overlook a great deal of unimaginable hideousness.
@Isabel
As I think of the women I know, the duckface makers, as well as the ones who stick their tongue out in photos and look up and to the left? All promiscuous. Not a dealbreaker for dating, even good looking, smart guys (many of whom are douches, by the way).
The absolute worst advice I’ve ever heard anyone give is, “Don’t worry, it will happen when it is meant to.” What an excuse for being lazy and passive! My mother always said, “God helps those who help themselves.”
I think somewhere back in the primeval mists of time it began with someone imitating a supermodel in the belief that if they not only pulled the same facial expression but exaggerated it monstrously, it would make them beautiful too.
It didn’t work.
Can we not get onto the slut thing here already?
Hmmm.. (quite wrongly). I’ve been on that side myself. I was blamed for the breakup because I couldn’t please her. I enabled that bitch by getting involved with her, committed, and then she broke up with me. She said I wasn’t quite right with her. I didn’t do enough for her. Very narcistic.
On the other side, I can see how newly empowered women will want to exercise their new found power by dating above their pay grade. They were taken once, which was a step up. She will take a bigger step and get a bigger prize.
Okay, but sometimes she will hit a wall. Many women will sooner or later realized there are no second chances after they gained 30 pounds and aged 10 years. But men do seem to have the power when they get older. They seem to hold the cards.
Funny thing is I do enjoy watching “Sex In The City” at times. It is completely mindless, stupid, and ridiculous. No one should take it seriously, yet women do. The 1950-60s family dramas were more real that these new shows. I suppose if you do like being by yourself, a night of “Sex In The City” makes a good substitute. Otherwise, watch “Leave It To Beaver” and cry about the family that you will never have.
Just think of it as giving up sluts for Lent. Let’s see if we can have interesting conversations without them.
Yes, it’s escapist, not a blueprint for a fulfilling life. As many have pointed out, the characters on that show were miserable 95% of the time. If it didn’t work for them, why would it work IRL?
Susan wrote:
Well, all the women who have RSVPed for the Meet Up pub crawl on Saturday are over 35. I am prepared for three eventualities.
1. They are looking for casual sex.
Fingers crossed.
2. They are looking for “the one”.
I feel sorry for them if that’s the case. I’m not saying its impossible. Its just a tall order. They would have to be incredibly persistent, inventive, brazen and outgoing in their search. They would also need to be utterly ruthless about screening out unsuitable men. Even then, there would still be no guarantee of success.
3. They’ll spend the whole night drinking Jagerbombs and taking duck face pictures of each other.
I’ll be a gentleman and hold their hair back while they puke.
What a bunch of idiot airheads! The women of SATC actually are much less clueless about attracting guys.
Oh Lord, and the repulsive morons in the first comment’s picture?? EW!
Eh, it’s not THAT hard for a women over 35 to get some action. She just has to have decent looks and a lot of money, and buy expensive gifts for the guy. Basically act like a sugar mama.
It’s kinda perverse I guess.
@ Jonny
Hm no, I don’t think I explained myself very well. What I’m saying is both genders need to make better judgements of character instead of falling for the first attractive thing that pays them attention and then wondering why things happened the way they did. Weren’t there any red flags at any point in the relationship? Surely, she would have betrayed her nature at some point, even if it was something as little as hogging all the bathroom space?
I’m not saying her bad attitude was your fault because it isn’t but a lot of girls will knowingly date a guy with a reckless history and then wonder why he treats them bad just like every other girl in his past. Incidentally, those are the types who’ll buy the SATC boxset for and go on girls’ night out where they employ their “look, but don’t touch! tralalalala I’m so sexy” method on unwitting strangers. And then they come home to an empty bed and clog everyone’s Facebook feed with their complaints about men. *facepalm*
Worst SATC episode I saw was titled “A woman’s right to shoes”. Ick.
PS: Saying “it’s not me, it’s you” is also pretty damn brazen tbh…. oh well. Good riddance to bad rubbish.
Regarding the “screw locally marry globally” bit above: don’t go for the slim pickings available in China. They had to ban the divorce-theft bonanza because of excessive gold-digging by these women.
We in America ought to follow their example.
From Slate “the eligible bachelor paradox”:
http://www.slate.com/id/2188684/
The Sex and the City clones are “strong-bidder” women. There is an element of submission to sex and I can imagine it’s hard to “tap” a woman used to a certain amount of power and influence. Taming of the Shrew has no sequel.
The one true thing I’ve learned from the man-o-sphere…female attraction is stronger when the man is more eligible than the woman. That’s not to say attraction doesn’t exist if this condition is not met, just that all-else-equal (economics concept) it is LESS likely the woman will leave the man if he’s more eligible. To be clear, that is not a generalization.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-2031684/Alessandra-Ambrosio-towers-fiance-Jamie-Mazur-LA.html
Furthermore, adding extra heft to my contention women like to date up…men can and will tolerate a clingy woman if that means she won’t cheat on him, but women have 100% revulsion to clingy men, no matter what benefits clingy men bring.
Back to the Sex and the City clones…these women can’t find men more eligible than themselves. They priced themselves out of the market, like Volkswagen trying to sell a $80,000 luxury sedan (it happened).
These women are acting like camp gay men, which was one facet of the show, Carrie’s bald gay male friend. They say all the good men are married or gay. Some bloggers suggest women think that men are attracted to what they are attracted to (confidence, status, etc). Well if you don’t know any good straight men (they’re all married) the only good men you know are camp gay men. Why not act like them?
That picture got me really excited because I thought we were going to have a discussion about what a sad sack of shit Carrie Bradshaw is….and why does the cool dykey one hang out with a bunch of delusional bimbos in the first place?
But I guess not.
Really? I thought that was sorta funny. Not something I’d do myself, but those women are middle aged and possibly lesbian. It’s not like protesting double standards of topfreedom to appease the alien overlords, it’s just plain silliness, hopefully in some kind of context where it would be appreciated. I mean, guys use their balls for comedic effect all the time (re: The Goat). Why not boobs?
Matt T:
Finding “action” is easy for anyone with a vagina.
But long-term commitment, marriage and kids are more elusive for single women over 35.
“As I think of the women I know, the duckface makers, as well as the ones who stick their tongue out in photos and look up and to the left? All promiscuous”
Hahaha laughing to myself after you said that SW. If a chick adds me on fb and I see pics of her making the duckface, I know it’s on.
Reading VJ’s comment, I was actually surprised at how unsurprised I was. I guess at my age and the girls I’m around, this kind of behavior is pretty normal. A bunch of girls decide to go do something “FUNNNN!!!!” like go to a restaurant and manage to irritate everyone around them with their antics, as they photograph and tweet and facebook.
With social media, every girl gets to channel the inner celebrity that she knows she is.
MuleChewingBriars,
You wont find a princess by kissing these frogs
Worst SATC episode I saw was titled “A woman’s right to shoes”. Ick.
You know it’s bad when the woman who is married and trying to raise her children as best she can is portrayed as more self-centered than the single woman whose life is about ensembles, shoes and sex.
I once read a critique of SatC that said the show was basically “gay men playing with Barbies.”
@
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I guess it’s all relative. There was an episode where she got an STD and she had to call all her “past” guys to let them know. The list she had made it clear that she really wasn’t “grounded”…
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That show was funny, and had good laughs, but it was basically a gay man’s fantasy lived through four horrible women. But, just like you got to tell little Johnny, after watching “Superman”, that you can’t jump out windows, probably somebody needed a similar disclaimer for women watching that show
@Stephanie
It wasn’t because the girl had a wedding/baby shower. It was because she insisted everyone take off their shoes before coming in the house and when Carrie went to put them back on to leave, the were missing. I mean, if it were her coat or her purse left in a coat closet that later turned up missing, she’d be within her rights to demand the hostess do something about it. But that woman was like, “no big deal, you can walk home barefoot.” It’s a matter of etiquette, not jealousy.
What’s really unbelievable is a freelance writer living in a huge apartment in Manhattan, getting a new Macbook every year and still having enough expendable income left for Manolos.
Eh…whatever. The show is entertaining enough. I like the parts about female friendships, but why anyone would want to make role models of those women is beyond me.
I haven’t read previous comments, but I’ll bet this was a sorority get together and they weren’t in search of any men that night.
@Stephanie
I’m not excusing her dumb behavior at all, I’ve already stated that Carrie is a sad sack of shit. I’m just saying that this was one case where her selfish antics were sort of justified. But even she completely missed the point. Did you ever see the one where she guilt-tripped Charlotte into pawning her engagement ring to bail her out of debt? God I wanted to smack her and spit loogies into her mouth.
In fact, that’s probably why Big left her sorry ass at the altar, he looked up her credit score. I about died laughing when the girls hunted him down in a limo and Carrie beat him with flowers.
LOL….fanwank.
Why don’t women take the easier path? Self sabotage?
The best way for a woman to self sabotage herself in a relationship is to have sex with a guy for the first time and then, regret it and start behaving like a Puritan woman. Playing hard-to-get, refusing sex on the grounds that “who do you think I am? I am not a slut”, shaming the guy for wanting sex, go back to square 1 when they are in square 4.
The back-up move. The only move that guarantees to end with a relationships and end up with a really pissed-off ex. Works every time.
Still can’t get the song mr milfquest posted out of my head, which it has pleasantly destroyed over repeated viewings. Reposting it here for those that might be turning up late:
Hmmm.. well, i tried. embedding videos only seems to work in preview:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pT9YI3hAkCY
SATC created and written by gay men. Although, it was on a book by Candace Bushnell. The character Samantha is fifty and still enjoys riding the dick carousel and has no interest in commitment. Really? It’s clear that the show with written from a male persepective.
In addition, I believe it opened the door wide for a lot of the promiscous behavior we see now.
SATC was created and written by gay men. Although, it was based on a book by Candace Bushnell. The character Samantha is fifty and still enjoys riding the dick carousel and has no interest in commitment. Really? It’s clear that the show with written from a male persepective.
In addition, I believe it opened the door wide for a lot of the promiscous behavior we see now.
In addition, I believe it opened the door wide for a lot of the promiscous behavior we see now
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Is there a backlash? If so, where is it coming from?
I’d like to meet the marketer who hatched the lie that bars/clubs are good place to meet a partner. It’s really only a place to get NSA sex, and if you’re a guy there are better option for that.
Man, fuck the alcohol culture. Fuck its fakeness and its hedonism and its irresponsibility.
Man, fuck the alcohol culture. Fuck its fakeness and its hedonism and its irresponsibility.
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Well then fuck the majority of the urban West, a mal-parented shallow validation-addicted petri dish culture foreign to most men who live in its midst.
Whoa whoa whoa…so you’re telling me that some of those pictures of people doing “fun things” on facebook and twitter are only FAKING fun? That is a seriously good self esteem booster.
Abbott…what’s your goal here? I’ll agree with others that your comments can be very insightful, but you’re a broken record on some of these topics. Give it a rest man! You beeline straight back to female upbringing, slut bashing, and gloom and doom descriptions of the West in every.single.post.
The SMP sucks at times in the West but the sky is NOT falling, in this poster’s opinion.. Susan, my apologies for not contributing anything to this thread…I just think it’s getting a little ridiculous.
ha! these dumbasses are so amazingly stupid that it is funny and shocking at the same time. this is how it ends people.
sox, steph,
yep – i agree with Abbot’s essential point but really i’m SO fucking bored of it by now my eyes just slide off the S word & i just want to go off & look at anything else. It’s making HUS a tedious & unpleasant place to be.
I’m with whiteboykrispy, this behavior is really so common that I’ve become numb to it. Most attractive college girls are wannabe celebrities these days.
I do have to disagree with the idea that people need to make special effort to date outside their social circles, though… For me, social circle game has always yielded higher quality prospects and much higher success rates than cold approaches.
this behavior is really so common that I’ve become numb to it.
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Ignoring seems to be the new trend. Path of least resistance is not the worst strategy.
Imagine a show about a bunch of guys who play video games all day, have no jobs, are overweight and have effeminate personalities. That would be the male equivalent of Sex And The City and it should have the same effect on women that SATC has on men.
Kane,
The MRA show!
And they should be doing jokes about how women are worthless, all day long.
The male equivalent of Sex And The City could also be four alpha males who have a soft harem – access to just about all the attractive women. Two of them learned game in varying degrees. One alpha has a sensitive spot so he feels guilty about womanizing the easy pickins and the other dude is an all out bastard and sometimes gigolo.
Scott Adams wrote
society is organized in such a way that the natural instincts of men are shameful and criminal while the natural instincts of women are mostly legal and acceptable.
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http://dilbert.com/blog/entry/pegs_and_holes/
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@Isabel
I love your way with words, truly.
Have you ever seen a nude guy with his balls painted to look like something else? To each his own, but those women with their nipples painted black just gross me out!
I agree. I don’t think its effect on the brains of adolescent women can be overestimated.
Yeah somewhat veering off course here. My reaction was that this was essentially just an outgrowth of some of the narcissistic behaviors I was seeing when I was dating that just confused & frustrated me greatly. I mean how to relate to gals obviously ‘out for a good time’ but perfectly uninterested in anything beyond themselves? Yeah, I know pretty common, then & now & forever. It may even be part of the ‘Buds’ picture Mule gave us. (Visible proof that Louis CK can be wrong too!)
But always it comes down to the level of intellect & culture of the crowd your with. Couture they had, their dresses must have been a C-note (or near it) a piece (it’s a lot of fabric people)! And notably they were all wearing Party Dresses, but somehow Missing the Party (except with themselves). And as I said, all perfectly chaste, and not more than just tipsy either, actually. So there’s no inference I was drawing, other than them being mightily annoying with their antics & one running back and forth to the front looking for their lost ‘sister’. I thought I was caught up in the middle of a 3rd grade class actually, that’s how silly it appeared.
These were the type of women I avoided like the plague when younger, which is a good thing as they never looked at me as anything other than a ‘nerd’ or worse much of the time. Most never understood where the hell I was coming from either. Fast forward 25+ years and the wife sometimes does not understand where I’m coming from either. (I call that my infamous Fairey Swordfish rant). Regardless, she can Get There because she’s smart, thoughtful, clear thinking, well read, patient and fairly rational too.
Worse, Plenty of this critique now applies to almost ALL ages. Stop a conversation of your ‘elders’ sometime and it’s bound to be perfectly inane; if they’re not talking about aches & pains & various docs & diagnoses Or their kids/grandkids/relations it’s all about the damn TV shows! Did you see that on here? She did what to whom? Gossip writ large. Or Fox was talking about this horrible imaginary deal & we should be Outraged About it all! (Or worse whatever they’re spouting back from talk radio propaganda that day). No one talks about ideas or ideals anymore. Or really understands much beyond the sloganeering & bumper-stickers. Or inventions, engineering, economics etc. Perhaps it was ever thus for most.
Me? I’m thinking about this stuff all the time. The fact that the ONLY way the entire cast of SATC would be able to live the way they did & NOT work (much) and have as much Leisure time as they did was that a.) they were Retired b.) they were very wealthy divorcees and/or c.) they were ‘kept women’ or Escorts for very wealthy men! It just was never credible to me so I could never watch.
So bottom line? Look for someone divorced from the technology of the age. Someone not wedded to FB, without their own Blog cheering section etc. Perhaps someone w/o a working TV too might help greatly. You know like some hot semi-cloisetered nun from way back. I know, that sounds almost hopeless in this day & age. Which was my point. It was already getting damn near impossible when I was young, and it’s degenerated into silly perversions and fantasies ever since.
There’s no need to add much alcohol or sex to this mix. It’s already pretty dysfunctional from an operational human perspective. And yes, I know that all too well. I try to hire some of these folks too. Better than 90% of college grads fail our 2 qualifying requirements we state to send with your resume. Rationality and the ability to actually ‘sell’ or defend an argument in written expression? Seemingly wholly unknown to this generation for whatever reason. Where’s my perfect/acceptable BF? Gone with that decent job I guess. Me? I’m trying.
I still see the humor in all this. I get to relive my grammar school days regularly. Cheers, ‘VJ’
Steph,
never heard of that show but interesting from that link seeing that it too was marketed to women, making the male characters all wealthy CEOs (so attractive to the hypergamous instinct) but also inadequate little boys (that the women really rule) so they can be looked down on. These men are hen-pecked, rather than ‘empowered’. One of the characters is trying to win back his first wife (a common female ego boost fantasy – have you noticed how often that pops up in chick-flicks?)
It wasn’t made for men, & wasn’t truly about men (“The problem with Big Shots is that the men don’t sound like anyone at all, male or female.”),it was actually made to laugh at men, while also (paradoxically) fetishizing them as fantasy objects of wealth & status.
All this aimed at attracting a female market, & yet didn’t even finish its first season. Sex And The City ran for 6 seasons & two movies & is still raking in dollar bills from gullible guppies.
Women matter. Men don’t, except in the things they can provide for women. That is the message of both shows.
Dudes! I go away for a few hours and you’re back to bashing sluts. I thought we were all agreed. We’re giving it a rest on the slut front. Feel free to criticize female narcissism – that’s the relevant point here. Not promiscuity. Sox is right – it is beyond ridiculous and tedious at this point. I guess I’ll have to start trashing comments.
Oh boy, that does it. Now I feel like mama lion needing to protect her cub. I know I’ve been slow to pounce on this but I am not going to let anyone drive away readers with their personal agenda. If I have to start banning IP addresses I will.
Now I feel like mean Mrs. Ryan from George Washington Elementary.
Ha, that was the movie Knocked Up! I liked it.
@Abbot
It’s too bad Scott Adams backtracked on that column. The feminists got him to take it down.
That’s, er, quite a long snake he’s got there.
I don’t even want to know how you found that. I have to say, he looks a lot better than the women with bulging frog eye boobs.
The whole FB and twitter phenomenon is really just an inflation of what happened with the advent of the polaroid camera.
For proof, just open your photo album to any past holiday, and you’ll see smiling faces, people posed with their arms around shoulders, kids kissing parents in gratitude for gifts given, parents looking on in vicarious excitement as kids tear through wrapping paper, kids playing nicely together, etc… What you don’t see are the arguments and petty bitching, the kids rolling on the floor bored moaning about how there’s nothing to do 10 minutes after opening hundreds of dollars of presents, dad threatening to leave early if the kids don’t behave, Aunt Polly getting too drunk, and Uncle Manny grabbing your mom’s ass as she bends to get a baked casserole out of the oven.
Pictures have always lied. We’ve always used them to lie. It’s just that now we all walk around with cameras in our phones and keep in touch with friends and families virtually. Now our lies aren’t hidden away in photo albums to take out and enjoy every now and then when family gets together; now they’re plastered on the internet, and the actual truth is actually less important than the virtual one we create. Of course, the upshot is that the real us hiding behind a wall of lies, which makes for a whole lot of loneliness.
The virtual world gives us virtual truths. The medium is the message.
I don’t think so. Pictures used to commemorate a gathering. The gathering, the community, family, was the point, and the day would be punctuated by some posed pics or perhaps a few candids. Today, the pictures are the point, and gatherings are held as an excuse to snap more self-portraits. That’s another thing that’s changed – only in recent years has the extended arm shot of one’s own face become common. In fact, I don’t think those pictures lie – I think they put the self-love unabashedly on display.
Sue,
1. That’s not really self love.
2. We commemorate the parts we want to remember and forget the rest. And from as far back as we’ve had people say “cheese” we’ve been being dishonest about what we’re commemorating.
Of course, this takes things to a whole new level. And the fact that we all have our own portable cams means that the “self” has become the natural thing to commemorate.
And yes, today the pictures ARE the point, which is what I meant when I said that the virtual truth is actually more important than the actual truth. Or is thought to be at any rate.
But FB has literally become people’s faces as they communicate mainly through online means. A good FB page is thought of as the equivalent of getting all dolled up to go out, because that’s what people use to interact.
Excerpt from one of the linked articles:
“Where have all the most appealing men gone? Married young, most of them—and sometimes to women whose most salient characteristic was not their beauty, or passion, or intellect, but their ****decisiveness****.“
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One comment/question I see repeated here quite often by a number of young women is why is that guy or those guys with that woman or those women whether they are bitchy, or slutty, or make duckfaces, or are disagreeable or whatever the particular issue might be. In 95%+ of the cases, those women were simply decisive about making the guy their boyfriend of husband.
Guys do the vast amount of approaching, and even for the best looking guy with the tightest game, rejection is still a fact. It would be an interesting stat to see but my guess is 99.5%+ of all hookups, boyfriend-girlfriend relationships, and marriages are the result of an INITIAL ACTION taken by the guy, either starting a conversation, making a move, whatever. A guy can only be as choosy/selective as his options permit, and the majority of us have a pretty good sense of what are realistic options are. So when a girl chooses you, more often than not, the default response is going to be to run with it, and see where it goes. That is why those guys are with those girls, and the overly picky girls are watching from the sidelines wondering why that guy is with THAT girl.
Why all the hate on Sex and the City?
I think it’s a great show. It portrays the life of the “liberated” single woman in the city relatively accurately (ok, except for Carrie’s shoe budget). And as Susan mentioned before, all four characters are miserable about 95% of the time. I like to watch them now to learn what NOT to do. The ending of the story (including the movies) is of course totally unrealistic- does anyone really think Big would end up choosing, er- MARRYING a 40-year old Carrie over all the pretty young things a man of his status could pull? No. But the earlier episodes are less fairy tale and more cautionary tale to any woman out there thinking of following in their footsteps.
The problem with TV is that people–young people especially–don’t heed the warnings, they emulate what they see portrayed. Especially when you include comedy and drama into the mix. Who doesn’t want to have stories to tell or dramas to live through?
Imagine a show about a bunch of guys who play video games all day, have no jobs, are overweight and have effeminate personalities. That would be the male equivalent of Sex And The City and it should have the same effect on women that SATC has on men.
Not a show…a movie, and subtract out effeminate personalities, but it reminds me of the Big Lebowski. “The Dude” is kind of the ultimate slacker dream if you are a guy but the complete antithesis of what a woman finds attractive. Kind of a perfect parallel to Carrie Bradshaw.
Also, given the nature of sitcoms, the characters are all relatively static. This isn’t a problem really, except that the show fails to show the real impact that the characters’ choices have on their lives. You have to keep it light. So the impression given is that that sort of life really IS light… i.e. fun.
Susan,
Interesting article here from that same site someone linked above:
http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2002/12/in-search-of-mr-right/6587/?single_page=true
“What she found was that at the time in their lives when they feel ready for a partner, young women are at a loss as to how to find one. Contemporary young women, she points out, have been raised to seek fulfilling careers rather than husbands. And upon college graduation they want to spend time out on their own, making their mark on the world, rather than pairing off right away and exchanging their independence for family life.
You talk about how in recent decades girls have been raised to be more competitive, strong, and assertive than they were in the past. Did the women you talked to feel that those qualities were somehow a detriment to them when it came to romance?
Not particularly. Several women mentioned that at times in their life they felt that their intelligence or intellectual achievement seemed to work against them in their romantic relationships with men, *****but most women felt that there were some men “out there” who would be attracted to smart women. The problem was finding them.*****
Alot of interesting stuff in there much of which suggests a number of women are kind of in a state of bewilderment about landing a husband similar to how many guys were bewildered about how to get laid prior to the discovery and acceptance of Game. As the comment above indicates, most women still don’t get male attraction …”attracted to smart women”. The wise mature man values intelligence, but it has nothing to do with the how hard the dick gets. Many women still seem intent on “selling” a product most guys really don’t want, and then scratching their heads why it isn’t working.
Going back to VJ’s story, one hint for women interested in meeting guys is to avoid these large groups or at least at some point separate off into a pair. Only the most confident guys (probably successful player and cads) will approach groups. It is simply too high risk for getting blown out in an embarrassing way. When I think back, pretty much all my approaches were either girl by herself or with one other friend.
You and me both, brother.
Several months ago, I was enjoying few delicate sniffs of my favorite postprandial aromatic hydrocarbon. Ever striving to be an enlightened connisuor, I typed “Huffing Up Smart” into Google, perchanse to peruse some reviews of various pairings.
Somehow I ended up at this dump, and I’m out of my favorite vintage of toluene. You just can’t find the ’74 Sunoco barrels anymore, and it’s a goddamned shame.
That one made me laugh too. Sorry. I still think the frog-eye tits are funny.
And, actually, a case against universal female narcissism, since those women are willing to sacrifice their dignity for a good joke. This is like the episode of South Park where they banned queefing and Stan’s mom cried because she couldn’t gross out her husband anymore. Ok ok, I know it’s South Park, but that episode spoke VOLUMES about gender relations.
I find today’s narcissism and the need for over sharing sickening. I respect and value myself and my privacy too much to have an facebook/twitter/LJ/blog/myspace/*enter any other ego validation community here* account.
As I say to people who ask why I don’t have one – I am too cool for this bullshit.
I’ve noticed that the type of people who over-share on social media are the same people who over-share in real life. Some people feel the need to divulge every detail about their lives and don’t believe that they are embarrassing themselves. I think the internet and social media has breathed new life into the art of correspondence, but of course, it’s all about how you use it.
Those girls that VJ describes sound really boring and lame. The only reason they showed up on his radar was because they were loud and obnoxious. I bet there were plenty of other women in that restaurant who weren’t making nuisances of themselves that he didn’t even notice.
Stephanie,
I think you might have put some ideas into your writing that I did not claim. I fully admit that I should have expressed myself more clearly and with less negative emotion.
My professional opinion is that not all ego-validating is bad. More like the opposite, for normal person to function and have a healthy self image they need to get positive feedback from their surroundings.
Ego validation and self presentation is done unconsciously by everybody. My previous post post probably gave the impression that I disapproved of it, to certain extension I do – validating your ego by pleasing others and giving into peer pressure often results in loosing the touch with reality and with yourself. It is not healthy and wise and I personally do not have any sort of respect or patience for people described above and I choose to have nothing to do with them.
I too have lived in other countries, far away from my loved ones. I know how much easier technology makes life and sharing under those kind of circumstances.
However whats with all the justifications and why so sensitive? Everybody has the right to use internet as they wish, I personally use it very often for entertainment, my education come greatly from elsewhere. I do not claim that those communities(FB/LJ/twitter etc) do not have any positive features or that they should cease to exist. Very good for you if you have found such groups who use those places to intellectually stimulate themselves and help to educate others. Very good and very rare. But almost all of this could be done in real life.
Sharing information and bonding is so much more effective when done in real life. Cyber life is a very poor substitute for that. Believe me, unfortunately I know too well what I am talking about.
That’s exactly how I got here too!
Susan re vj’s field report,
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I have no doubt about the veracity of his recollection. Seen some similar things in my time although it did seem to me he was witnessing a girls night out, unless they were going clubbing later.
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As for Facebook, it took me 2 months to realise it was BS and I closed my account down.
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Vj, was perhaps being hyper critical. I have no doubt the women were unbearable. But arent we all if your table is on the sauce but your neighbouring table arent?
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Ever been to restaurant with you other half for a quiet romantic meal to find your evening shattered by a table of boozy blokes. City traders are the worst.
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“tarquin, you simply must see my yacht old bean”
“um, Toby, a brunette appears to be about to stab you with a fork”
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This is only if you Are in a posh restaurant.
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If you go to a curry house you get the ” pass the nan bread you WAAAAANKER”
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and in a kebab shop you get a lovely blend of vomiting, urinating, head butting, copulation or stabbing. ( I’m serious)
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So blokes are not always the best behaved diners either you know.
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Also, Susan, I was under the impression you didn’t like field reports?
Isobel,
Awesome posts. Witty and insightful please keep em coming.
Ps I bet I hate SATC more than anyone here.
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Jamie,
You are right, those photos are in fact hilarious. Gross, but hilarious.
Just to clear up some questions & issues here again:
It was meant as a vignette of ‘what not to do’. There were several couples and even mixed couples double dating nearby in this restaurant, getting along fine. These gals were just the closest and of course the loudest in the place.
The place itself is fairly ‘upscale’. Our bill was just shy of a C-note, which is not unusual for us. (We took away some dinners for later too). Still it’s a place that folks bring family to as well. The bar was at the other end of the room, and they were not drinking heavily, but eating sparingly as if to hold their table until their friend could arrive. They were there when we arrived, and were there when we left more than an hour later too. Taking plenty of photo’s & FB’ing all the while.
And folks, it’s quite easy to ‘overshare’ on FB. There’s scarcely anyone left on the planet under the age of 40 say w/o some nudie/risque pics on their FB someplace. They are not secure, and have generated entirely new vistas of ‘amateur’ porn in their wake. They’re not hard to find, and it’s not hard to find them from college grads or even ‘well heeled’ grad students posting all manner of silly nonsense, all for some sense of ‘self gratification’ or aggrandizement. When people check these things for employment purposes? We get many surprises. If your favorite religion is listed as ‘salami’, and you’re posing nude, in many pics? You might not make an attractive candidate for the position you sought, despite how attractive you may imagine you are presently at 30 something or whatever. Just amazing people.
And no this is not an appeal to repeal the 21st century, but some sense of public decorum might be nice to keep in mind. For the record? The gals were merely bothersome & loud. It was their continual narcissistic self involvement & regard that was what drew my attention. If all the world’s a stage? These folks really don’t have much time for much anything else at the moment. Which was my point. Cheers, ‘VJ’
@ Jess
I don’t think it is about which gender is the rudest or most annoying. It’s more about young women believing the world actually cares about what they had for lunch or just how much fun they had with their ‘best bitches’ last Friday, Saturday and Sunday night. You probably won’t find the loud guy from the curry house on Twitter complaining about a lack of good honest women. He’ll just belch, roll over and sleep after a night out. Those girls, on the other hand, ruthlessly invade the internet with their whining about how they can’t find an intelligent, sensitive and romantic guy in club toilets. Entitled types that actively demand sympathy and deny that they make bad choices are simply a lot more slap-worthy than obnoxious white van men.
The funny thing is that all that contrived BFF nonsense is usually built on a very weak foundation. Real friends don’t need pretty dresses, high end restaurants or 1000s of pictures on their smartphones to have a good time. They travel in packs, in part, because they don’t get along enough to have intimate focused conversations and in part, to ensure optimal cockblocking occurs.
Whenever one of the group members gets a boyfriend, she gets delegated to a lower status out of low-level jealousy and won’t be invited out as much.
Oh and, their rationalisation motto seems to be:
” I’m selfish, impatient and a little insecure. I make mistakes, I am out of control, and at times hard to handle. But if you can’t handle me at my worst, then you sure as hell don’t deserve me at my best”
Every irritant with an internet connection has this quote on her Facebook page.
PS: Thanks. ^_^
@lalady
If most female viewers of SATC viewed it through the same lens you do, there’d be no problem. It would be viewed as a show about dysfunctional women, satirical. Unfortunately, it had a tremendous impact on sexual behavior among young women, glorifying casual sex and normalizing entitled behavior. Women wanted to be Carrie Bradshaw, despite the fact that she was always a hot mess.
Vj,
Yes, I know the type, not my cup of tea…
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Slap worthy? Well yes…but only cos you are in jest…
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More than white van man? .
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I think they have equal slap worthy status myself…
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Maybe because in the past a couple of White van men, other than poor driving, felt the need to expose themselves to me in transit.
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“Get a load of this darlin” etc
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Do these guys not understand they are in a vehicle with a trackable number plate. And why would I wish to peruse the goods of an overweight balding builder anyways?
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But I concede your point about the self indulgent princess thing. No child of mine is gonna turn out like that let me tell you. Uk schools, of all standards, are full of them. Portia is different from Tasha but they can both be princesses in their own revolting ways.
Susan re carrie,
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Why would any young lady want to look like a cross between a horse and a foot?
I love field reports! VJ described something he’d witnessed first-hand. He didn’t show up saying that all his friends at work tell him that women are shallow narcissists.
*applause*
It’s true: Sarah Jessica Parker does look like a foot.
Susan,
If vj was to do that it would be a classic 1st hand field report.
Face to face conversations are just as informative as observed interactions, surely?
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By the way did you get a chance to see the 3 medical websites I posted listing the same pros and cons on c sections I talked about (before the site restore)
Byron,
Maybe that’s why she was so into shoes…….
@ Jess
White van men are born depraved and annoying, sadly. The girls however might have been salvaged if it weren’t for inane rubbish like SATC, Big Brother, Jersey Shore, Gossip Girl etc telling them it’s acceptable to be hyper-exposed and bitchy for material gain. But then again the MSM doesn’t exactly set a good tone when it handsomely rewards people like Kim Kardashian for worshipping the public eye. A reality show, a fashion label, an autobiography, a “music’ career, a perfume line….and all that because she surgically inserted a sofa in her rear and had sex on camera. O_o
As for Horatios and Petes, if it weren’t for one party wearing Jack Wills and the other Primarni, you really wouldn’t be able to tell the difference between them on a night out. UK schools are pretty bad too tbh. Whenever we had student exchanges from China or the Netherlands, the foreign kids were actually afraid of us! It was fun corrupting their unblemished souls.
I don’t understand this sort of person. My female bonding takes place via long in-depth discussions of whether Thor or Iron Man is, in fact, hotter, concluding that what would be hotter is both of them.
Also cuddling and mutual support when shit hits the fan, as it does on a regular basis.
And I agree with the thing said above about clans versus cliques. I have met a tremendous diversity of people because there are only maybe a hundred true nerds at my school, all of whom go to the same activities, and so you don’t get much choice about whom you spend time with.
Byron,
Maybe that’s why carrie loved shoes so much
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Isabel,
Primarni- hysterical
Ozymandias wrote:
Ozy lives in a Kevin Smith movie.
Johnny: That’s not a movie, it’s a documentary!
If most female viewers of SATC viewed it through the same lens you do, there’d be no problem. It would be viewed as a show about dysfunctional women, satirical. Unfortunately, it had a tremendous impact on sexual behavior among young women, glorifying casual sex and normalizing entitled behavior.
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Men place a value on a women’s sexuality. If women in their minds are capable of justifiably devaluing it based on a TV show, imagine the male view of how they devalue it when disregarding the message “don’t try this at home” and act out repeated mindless falsely-consented SATC-induced-rape episodes. However, this demonstrated behavioral control of women suggests that others can be kept from the ledge and nurtured into a far more admirable life.
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THIS piece of shit. I’m all for admitting one’s faults, but when they try to spin them as positives? RLYAIOF*.
My response would be “if being at your worst is something to be proud of, then your best ain’t worth it”
*Run like your ass is on fire.
@ OfftheCuff
Or more succinctly: stfu.
Did anyone else realize that’s a quote from Marilyn Monroe?
I really need to check my facebook privacy settings now…
That’s probably why Tony Curtis said kissing Monroe was like kissing Hitler.
To be honest, Marilyn Monroe can get away with saying something like that. But there is a certain type of fat girl that loves to compare herself to Monroe, quote her and call herself “curvy”. Ugh.
Haha. I listed Pastafarian as my religion for a while, but being unfamiliar with their doctorine, I had not been touched by His noodly appendage.
Currently, my religion is listed as “Bacon.” The past 2 years I have cooked Thanksgiving dinner for my family and I put bacon in EVERYTHING. If you’re going to worship cured meats, Bacon is the obvious choice.
Re: SATC parrallels for men
Susan mentioned Knocked Up, and I would go ahead and say just about every other Judd Apatow movie is in the same vein. Superbad, especially. The message is you can be as nerdy and awkward as you want, but at the end of the day you’ll get the hot girl.
Cary Grant we have not these days.
On a lighter note, if you want to do goofy right, be like Ace Ventura. When I saw that movie again recently, besides laughing my dick off, I couldn’t help but notice the way he demolishes Courtney Cox’s character; it is a feat of great acting and writing.
Poor Kari!
Johnny Milfquest wrote:
RSVP ≅ Reply Soon ?
(Hmm.
Preview-button ended working on that browser. These HTML tag buttons work still.)It’s too bad Scott Adams backtracked on that column. The feminists got him to take it down.
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Because he is well known or because he said feminists should be ignored which is a greater fear than disagreeing with them? How about this guy Makow – didn’t he invent some sort of board game?
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http://www.etherzone.com/2010/mako081710.shtml
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And he references this gem:
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http://www2.macleans.ca/2010/08/10/outraged-moms-trashy-daughters/
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Outraged moms, trashy daughters
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IOW: FAIL
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I want to add that, I saw Kim Catrall in a TV interview a few months ago. She said to the interviewer that her character Samantha from SATC was “empowered” due to the fact that she was a slut (I’m paraphrasing, of course). I almost puked.
She said to the interviewer that her character Samantha from SATC was “empowered” due to the fact that she was a slut
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Its so odd [and removes all logic and credibility] that this so-called empowerment must always involve the participation [use] of men. From Henry Makow:
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@Liza207
After SATC ended, Kim Catrall put out a how-to sex book with her husband. They’ve since divorced and she’s recently whined that post-Samantha dating is hard.
http://www.nypost.com/p/pagesix/cattrall_shows_us_no_respect_HPku9fC9oV57ITw8zwJqbO#ixzz1WjkBuzay
http://www.usmagazine.com/moviestvmusic/news/kim-cattrall-dating-is-difficult-after-writing-sex-book-201184
Susan, I remembered the book and thought is she really serious. I guess she thought that it would a good idea to continue to capitalize off the character but it backfired on her in personal life. She probably lost her husband thinking that she could have it like her character if she were single.
Now, she’s still playing the character in those awful movies and is now also playing an aging stripper. Awful.
SPOT ON VJ!
I enjoyed this.
Most young women I meet in town are like what VJ described. Living in a reality in where they show other people how cool it is to be her. Telling the whole world about it rather than actually enjoying the night and live in the moment. Oh no God forbid that.
But I also recognize that it’s just a group of women. I also know that put the young women in a different environment they may not act the way as VJ described. It’s just another persona of multiple personas we as humans have. Hell I know I act differently depending on where I am and who I’m with. Yet I strive to be myself as much as possible.
So I can understand they way they act. I don’t find it rather attractive on a first impression. But I truely believe there’s more to those girls when they stop competing over who’s more cooler than the other.
Geez… A Fb “friend” had that as here status recently, attributed to Marylin Monroe . After I finished rolling my eyes, I was so tempted to respond that she couldn’t hold a candle to Maryln on her worst day.
http://www.askmehelpdesk.com/attachments/a/26013d1256816181-why-middle-aged-women-should-not-drink-noname.jpg?stc=1
this photo was priceless! it says so much. this is where it is heading for these were the hot, cool chicks twenty years ago, nodding their heads to Down Boys over by the jukebox. look at them now, haha, you’ve come a long way baby, lol!!!!
@Susan
“As repulsed as I was, I got in close and stared at that photo for about two minutes. I don’t understand how American culture is successfully exported anywhere.”
it does boggle the mind doesn’t it? it not only boggles it, it destroys it. our culture destroys others faster than it does us. these idiots are the very personification of inferiority. good thing there “freed.” ha!
“I haven’t read previous comments, but I’ll bet this was a sorority get together and they weren’t in search of any men that night.”
either way guy, it’s a photo of some old bags showing their (no longer)fun-bags. they are way past however hot they were and no amount of reveling in foolishness is going to change that. imagine if one of those was your mother! haha!
@Liza207
“SATC was created and written by gay men.”
of course you know Liza, these sacrosanct folks have special ways of knowing many thigns and we need to learn about ourselves from them. they know how we should dress and talk and even if we need to live in a hip city!
@GoodNuf
“I’d like to meet the marketer who hatched the lie that bars/clubs are good place to meet a partner. It’s really only a place to get NSA sex, and if you’re a guy there are better option for that.
Man, fuck the alcohol culture. Fuck its fakeness and its hedonism and its irresponsibility.”
i bet you anything that the marketer in question was probably some total goofy dork!
i wavd bye bye to the alcohol culture years ago. it was a great decision. it cut down significantly the sex. i am getting half what i used to get but the bar culture (our only culture) is no way to live.
@Abbot
“Well then fuck the majority of the urban West, a mal-parented shallow validation-addicted petri dish culture foreign to most men who live in its midst.”
well yes then, fuck it. it is going down soon anyway.
[ Off topic ]
Byron wrote:
Yes, it is disturbing when
Previewgives different result than what you get. (Hmm. Now againPreviewbutton seems work. On previous post it didn’t. Strange. )I was hit with that also.
“Women wanted to be Carrie Bradshaw, despite the fact that she was always a hot mess.”
You act as if this is a contradiction of some sort. Drama – emotional energy and social notoriety – appears to be the unit of measurement of many a young woman’s life.
That’s a big reason young women are so desperate to have relationships; not because they want to share their life with a man (most young women appear to have exceedingly deluded ideas about what relationships entail), but because it confers astouding social status.
Listen to high school or college girls talk about a homely girl with a loyal boyfriend – “I can’t believe SHE has a boyfriend!!!”
Susan,
“Ha, that was the movie Knocked Up! I liked it.”
The interesting thing that’s often overlooked about Knocked Up is that it’s about a slacker guy who grows into his responsibility as a father. Meanwhile, the “established career woman” goes absolutely bonkers out of her mind and can’t handle the situation, and the committed married couple is a total beta-plus-harpy mess.
“” I’m selfish, impatient and a little insecure. I make mistakes, I am out of control, and at times hard to handle. But if you can’t handle me at my worst, then you sure as hell don’t deserve me at my best””
So sick of this bullshit. Indolence has been raised into a virtue. A middle-aged divorcee I used to chat with at work never mentioned this quote, but told me in no uncertain terms “you have to give your best to your spouse. None of this I’m too tired for sex or to do my hair. Your spouse, not your boss or friends, deserves your best.”
That is now my response whenever this nonsense is brought up. Why would you want to subject the most special man in your life to your worst outbursts? Go to the fucking batting cages and work it out and then come home calm. Women have really twisted ideas about what men want. We’re supposed to feel flattered that we’re the person you’re comfortable having an outburst around? Nice try, Rain Man.
“I’m with whiteboykrispy, this behavior is really so common that I’ve become numb to it. Most attractive college girls are wannabe celebrities these days.”
I have to say, it was the beginning of the end with my last girlfriend when we were talking about life goals and I asked what she wanted in life…
“I want to be fabulous.”
Some part of my respect for her died at that moment. I just couldn’t imagine committing my life to someone dedicated to such shallow aims.
Mike C,
Always love your comments.
“Not particularly. Several women mentioned that at times in their life they felt that their intelligence or intellectual achievement seemed to work against them in their romantic relationships with men, *****but most women felt that there were some men “out there” who would be attracted to smart women. The problem was finding them.*****”
I get angry whenever I hear this “men don’t like smart women.” You know who has been endlessly attracted to smart women his entire life? Me. Guess who has had next to zero luck attracting them? Yeah.
It’s actually more accurate to say that my admiration of a woman’s intelligence never got me any closer to her heart or her vagina. I’ve found most smart girls are just like other girls. They are attracted to men with some combination of physical fitness, fashion taste, social dominance and mastery in an impressive field (and of course a bit of the dark triangle – chicks dig jerks). Any smart girls I landed were because I expressed those factors, not because I liked that they were smart. This is more evidence that women don’t understand their own psyches, these women are deluding themselves thinking that they’ll be attracted to a guy who appreciates this or that trait about them. How many times have we heard women say they want a nice guy who appreciates them while they bang a guy who treats them like dirt?
I live an intellectually active life, and let me tell you, it’s very hard even in the pool of smart girls to find a woman who wants to live an intellectually active life. I know so many smart women who just use it for their career and are not that different from regular party chicks outside of working hours.
Many “smart girls” also suffer from a variant of beta disease in that they think their intelligence should compensate their market value for other things they lack. Like guys who refuse game, they are unwilling to do the other things that attract the opposite sex like dressing well and being fun, under the guise of “I shouldn’t have to change myself to get a man! I want him to like me for me!”
“Going back to VJ’s story, one hint for women interested in meeting guys is to avoid these large groups or at least at some point separate off into a pair. Only the most confident guys (probably successful player and cads) will approach groups. It is simply too high risk for getting blown out in an embarrassing way. When I think back, pretty much all my approaches were either girl by herself or with one other friend.”
The only way to get around this is for the group to stand up and mill about in a pack so they are mixed in with the crowd, but otherwise, the wagon wheel of girls facing into each other is a non-starter, a guarantee only a hardened player or a sociopath will be approaching you. I see it as a sign of a lack of courage and agency among the women, that they have to protect themselves because they don’t really want to be there, and I have little interest in chatting with someone with that little verve for life. Having all that cattiness just exponentially increases the chance that peer pressure will induce a woman into delivering a pyrotechnic rejection (an event that may cause every other guy to write them off).
Besides, splitting into smaller groups allows girls to pull each other into conversations, like “come meet my friend!” which just makes for more fun interaction.
What Badger said.
I totally have smart girl disease. *shrug* If I don’t have to femme up to get laid or to get relationships, and given that it goes completely against my natural gender instincts to the point that it feels like dressing in drag, why would I?
I actually do get off on mastery in a field (dear God, mathematicians) and on fashion sense (well, on femme guys, but that overlaps a lot). And physical fitness a little, as long as they don’t end up with six pack abs (EW). Not really on social dominance and totally not on dark triad, though, and you missed a couple of my bulletproof turnons (I kink on conversation, okay!).
…Yes, I do have an irrepressible urge whenever people say “women like X” to figure out whether I count as women.
“And yet she’s divorced.”
Tell me how that impugns the wisdom of her testimony.
@Men On Pause
I don’t think that’s what people are saying at all. If those women had been bonding over dinner like everyone else in the restaurant, VJ would probably not have even noticed them. Instead, they were loud, taking flash photos, making calls, laughing about the Facebook updates, etc. If I’m dropping $100 on dinner, I’ll complain to the manager about such obnoxious behavior.
@Badger
Uh oh, that is such a red flag! Especially since fabulousness is probably going to be judged by someone you don’t respect, i.e. girlfriends?
Men On Pause sounds like Poly Desi/Plain Jane. The IP is part of a service called “Hide My Ass.” Deleting now.
@Badger
“I have to say, it was the beginning of the end with my last girlfriend when we were talking about life goals and I asked what she wanted in life…
“I want to be fabulous.”
hahahahahahaHAAAA! fabulous? whaaaaaaaaaaaaat?!!
that is the funniest and dumbest shit i ever heard. gee i wonder if she is a college educated independent woman? ya think?
ha! and again ha!
@Badger – re: smart girls – In my bachelor days, I made a valiant effort to scale one particular Miss Mount Mensa. The girl looked like Oona Chaplin, but talked like Richard Feynman. She probably had an IQ of 170 or better.
I was the guy everybody told her she should date. I heard all about the guys she really dated, though. They were mostly physical, proletarian types from a Mediterranean background. I asked her what the attraction was.
“They like my boobs, my butt, and my hair.”
“I think you have great boobs, butt, and hair.”
“Yeah, but you like my brains more. It’s all you ever talk about.”
“We can talk about your boobs, your butt and your hair, but honestly, there are thousands of girls with better boobs, butt and hair than yours, but who else understands the diagonal lemmas in Gödel’s incompleteness theorem?”
“What’s wrong with my butt?”
“I didn’t say…”
“You said there was something wrong with my butt.”
Smart women, alas, are women. The extra horsepower that world class grey matter gives them makes them all the more problematic if the car is headed in the wrong direction.
She married a swarthy fellow who beat her. A lot.
@Susan
Here is the TV interview with Kim CarttralI I was commenting on: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=exmgTAFAK_o
I had heard that the reason SATC was cancelled was because the CGI required to keep Kim Catrell’s face and her breasts in the shot at the same time was getting too complex.
@Badger
Many “smart girls” also suffer from a variant of beta disease in that they think their intelligence should compensate their market value for other things they lack. Like guys who refuse game, they are unwilling to do the other things that attract the opposite sex like dressing well and being fun, under the guise of “I shouldn’t have to change myself to get a man! I want him to like me for me!”
Until a couple of months ago, that was me! I was the sort who’d say, “Well, if I had the money to get nicer clothes, effective eye cream, make up that didn’t cake, etc., like those pretty girls do, then I’d be one of them–but I just can’t afford it.”
Then it hit me that there was no huge income difference and that I’d be able to afford all that stuff if I simply stopped buying books for a month.
Speaking of books, they give us a great metaphor: If you really believe that it’s the content that matters and not the cover, then you should do whatever it takes to make sure the cover lives up to the content.
I feel bad for VJ’s wife. He takes her out to dinner and spends his entire night getting sickly fascinated and appalled over the (innocuous, and irrelevant) conversations and body mass indexes of a group of 20-somethings. This sad image kind of undermines my ability to derive anything meaningful from this article.
I get angry whenever I hear this “men don’t like smart women.” You know who has been endlessly attracted to smart women his entire life? Me.
Me too. I have always wanted to be with smart women. This is a dream I am afraid it won’t come true.
It would be so nice to have a woman to have a conversation with. I dream of that. Women bore me to death.
Start talking about science, history, social issues, politics, philosophy and see women yawn. When they talk about their family, their pets, their female friends and celebrities, it’s me who yawns.
In the country I live smart women are extremely rare and their looks are between 2 and 3. I am not exaggerating. I cannot post some pictures of the girls in the book club I have created (it would be wrong). But I can give you an idea. Although they are in their early thirties, they are much less attractive than the women with the tits painted who are at the beginning of this thread.
I have a theory that women get smart because they are ugly. Beautiful women don’t have to be smart and they are not. Women who have an interest in something that is not related to them? Very few.
About the last sentence in my post, I think that a good proof is the difference between men’s magazines and women’s magazines.
Men’s magazines talk about politics, sociology, economics, etc. That is, things that are not related to men’s personal life.
Women’s magazines talk about clothes and fashion (so the woman know what to wear), relationships and sex (so the woman know what to do with her personal life), recipes (so the woman know what to cook), raising kids (just in case the woman is mother), feminism (about women). Me, me, me. The only exception: celebrities (A typical headline: Brad appears with a mysterious woman while Angie’s in Germany. HE IS CHEATING!!!!). Don’t forget the triple exclamation points.
You put a program about the economic crisis on TV. 90% of audience are men. Women are not interested. Programs with the highest female audience: Oprah, programs about celebrities, etc.
Academic subjects created by men: Politics, economics, philosophy, science, engineering, etc (everything unrelated to men).
Academic subjects created by women: Women’s studies (that is, talking about women).
About eight years ago, I analyzed my annual credit card statement and realized I had spent 3K on books that year. My rationale was that I would never buy hardback books, but was allowed to buy all the paperbacks I wanted. I immediately became a dedicated user of the library. It’s so easy, I read book reviews, get online to my library account, request what I want and then wait for the email to come in telling me my books are ready for pickup.
It’s increased the amount I read, and for obvious reasons I’m much more likely to take a chance on a book I’m not sure I’ll like.
Brilliant.
(It is scary. The spelling checker of my Google Chrome browser recognizes “Oprah” so it gives an error when I write “Opprah”. It seems that “Oprah” has become a word of the English language).
Academic subjects created by men: Politics, economics, philosophy, science, engineering, etc (everything unrelated to men).
.
Thus, society created and ruled by men. Women live in that society too. But no point in making them aware of that.
It sounds to me like the wife was right in there enjoying the show (or not). These wildcats were getting up in their meals with loud and unruly behavior. Who wouldn’t be appalled? As far as fascinated, well, many appalling things are hard to stop watching.
Only until now I have read the whole Badger post. Brilliant. Let me repeat some pearls so they don’t get lost in a long post:
- Any smart girls I landed were because I expressed those factors [alphaness], not because I liked that they were smart.
- This is more evidence that women don’t understand their own psyches
- I live an intellectually active life, and let me tell you, it’s very hard even in the pool of smart girls to find a woman who wants to live an intellectually active life. I know so many smart women who just use it for their career and are not that different from regular party chicks outside of working hours.
I couln’t agree more with this.
-I get angry whenever I hear this “men don’t like smart women.”
I think we can put this sentence in the same category than “men don’t like strong, independent women”. That is, not a truth but a female rationalization to feel better when being rejected by men.
So true. There was a bar I used to enjoy going to because the patrons were ghetto trashy people and would get into some of the most amazing fights. Also I enjoyed watching SATC for the same reason.
“Academic subjects created by men: Politics, economics, philosophy, science, engineering, etc (everything unrelated to men).”
.
To suggest that men are more likely to discuss these topics amongst each other than women are is one thing. But to cite the fact that these subjects were introduced by men as evidence for the fact that women have no interest in them? All of these subjects were ancient, from a time when no one would have listened if a woman tried to publish any kind of research on one of these topics.
.
“Men’s magazines talk about politics, sociology, economics, etc. That is, things that are not related to men’s personal life.”
.
And come on. These topics are certainly more prevalent in magazines geared towards men, but we’ve all seen the men’s magazines which focus on telling guys how to meet girls and start relationships while maintaining their jacked physique.
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