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A Drunk Man Never Lies

Bacchus


“A drunk man’s words are a sober man’s thoughts.”

“What soberness conceals, drunkenness reveals.”

Many, if not most, hookups occur under the influence of alcohol. In fact, research shows that college students don’t get drunk and then decide to hook up, they deliberately pregame first, then drink more out with the express goal of becoming uninhibited enough to go for the hookup. Emotional entanglements after initial hookups are rare (or at least not justifiable), but if two people hook up a few more times, things can get pretty complicated. Both parties are usually maneuvering for the upper hand in the zero sum game that is combat dating. In this era of players pretending to be nice guys, and nice guys acting like Impostor Assholes, it can be hard to figure out what a guy is really thinking. Is getting him drunk a good way to find out?

Consider this story, shared with me by Caroline, one of my regular Hooking Up Smarty Pants.

One fall semester, she met Caleb. Caleb had just been recruited to her college to play soccer after spending a summer training with the Brazil team. Caleb was compact, but very muscular and very handsome. He zeroed in on her right away, paying her a great deal of attention, holding hands in public, telling her about attending his little sister’s tea parties on break, and wearing a medal of the BVM around his neck. She was utterly charmed by this apparent demonstration of his values.

During this period of a few weeks he did not press for full-on sex, though they did hook up. As far as she could tell, he wasn’t seeing anyone else. One night at a date function he got extremely drunk. He flirted a bit with other people’s dates. Caroline was upset but his friends reassured, “Don’t worry about it. He really likes you.” She knew in her gut something was off. As the evening wound down, he turned to her in a group and drunkenly slurred, “Let’s get outta here. I wanna go home and come on your tits.”

She never spoke to him again and a year later he wrote and apologized.

Several months later, Caroline met a guy in a seminar. His manner was taciturn, but when he spoke up she was floored by how smart and interesting he was. She flirted with him after class a bit, and they walked together sometimes. He didn’t express any interest, he seemed like the brooding loner type. One night she saw him out with his friends, pretty early in the evening. She approached and said hello, and he introduced her. She noticed that he seemed nervous, and out of the corner of her eye saw his hands shaking.

The following weekend he texted and they made a point of hanging in the same bar. Again he seemed ill at ease, then out of nowhere planted one right on her mouth in the middle of a sentence. They kissed a bit at the bar, then he pulled back and retreated into moody silence. She couldn’t figure out what he was thinking! (Which of course made her want him badly.)

A month went by, with intermittent communication and meetups, but no real sign of avid interest on his part. One weekend he got really, really drunk. He came up to her and said, “Come home with me. Please.” She did, but in the days following there was no word from him. Furious with herself for falling for another player, she wrote him off and put it out of her mind. A few weeks later, he made a point of coming to her favorite hangout and was very attentive and focused on spending time with her. As the night wore on he got blackout drunk, way too drunk for any bedtime activity other than getting tucked in. But he turned to her, took her face in his hands and said:

“Come home with me.”

“Ha, yeah, doubt it.” 

“Please. But only if you stay forever.” 

“You’re full of shit.”

“I want you to come and be with me and stay with me. Don’t come for just one night. Stay.”

That was three years ago and they’re still talking. (He is still rather reticent with his emotions.) I hear stories like this all the time. Is it true that a drunk man never lies?

Andrew of Rules Revisited writes in his post In Vino Veritas:

Whenever a man you are interested in interacts with you (i.e. whether he is drunk or sober), he reveals information about himself, even if it is only that he is perpetuating the status quo of the relationship by not giving you any different information.

…With a few negligible exceptions, a man’s actions when he is drunk do accurately reflect his true feelings and intentions. This is because his drunkenness relieves his inhibitions, making him more capable of behaving according to his impulses and natural inclinations. However, from an attracted girl’s perspective, this honesty carries with it an ambiguity, because in addition to relieving a man’s internal inhibitions, alcohol also relieves his external inhibitions; and there is almost no way to judge which one is driving (or, more accurately, allowing) his words and actions. By internal inhibitions I mean those that come from within, i.e. ones that are a product of his personal weaknesses – fear of embarrassment or lack of self-confidence. By external inhibitions I mean those that come from the expectations of society, such as the pressure to date high-quality women, to not sleep with a girl you don’t want to date, or avoid sleep sleeping with your female coworker for fear of upsetting your professional relationship at work. Both types go by the wayside when drunkenness sets in.

…So next time the guy you likes makes a drunken advance, don’t stress out trying to decipher the implications. Instead, acknowledge that it means he is at least sexually interested in you, and wait for your next (sober) data point.

I addressed the same question in one of my earliest posts, Do Beer Emotions Count? Here’s what I recommended:

  • Interpret beer emotions as a fairly reliable gauge as to where the dude is sitting emotionally.
  • Keep that knowledge to yourself. It can be useful when you are seeing a guy to know what he’s really thinking, but you squander that if you spill the beans.
  • Look for a natural progression in his communication, whereby he begins to express his emotions when sober. If he always represses or denies his feelings in the morning, he is not good boyfriend material. In fact, he is probably a complete waste of time. In the end, intentions don’t count. Only actions do.
That last part is the most important. If a guy can tell you he loves you when he’s drunk, but disowns that when he’s sober, you don’t have a loving relationship. There are ways you can encourage one once you suspect he really does have feelings, but your boyfriend can’t be drunk 24/7 (we hope) to tell you what you want to hear. Either he graduates to sober expression of his feelings, or it’s a dead end.
In the next post, I will write about how you can go about using those drunken confessions to make him feel comfortable enough to fall for you and admit it. 
  • http://asinusspinasmasticans.wordpress.com MuleChewingBriars

    I would love to comment on this, but I gotta have a few drinks first.

  • OhioStater

    Research? You don’t need no stinking research. Pre-gaming is a way of life.

  • Passer_By

    Never lies or lies less? :)

  • Jonny

    One should not be wasting time with drunks. EOM.

  • Sassy6519

    We have a new post. Thank God!

    I’m not sure how I feel about beer emotions. I haven’t dealt with too many of them. I don’t drink very much, even more so when in a relationship with someone. I don’t like being around drunk people either. It can be annoying.

    That being said, alcohol does take away some of the mental/verbal filters we all place on ourselves to not say things that would be unwelcome in society or that may make us look bad.

    I tend to take whatever a man says to me while under the influence with a grain of salt. If he says the same things while sober, we’re all good. If I only hear “I love you baby” while he is drunk off his ass, that may be a red flag.

  • LeapofaBeta

    As a naturally greater Beta new to ‘game’ and slowly eschewing the much more Beta ways I was brought up, I would confirm that alcohol is a good way to gauge a guys intentions. More drinks will either make me more forward with pure sexual desires or with emotional desires. The first would be in situations where I used to feel guilty for wanting a ONS or FWB because I was raised that those were horrible desires and women belonged on that pedestal. The second was because I’d been friend zoned so damn often I was tired of it.

    Lately though I’ve been avoiding having enough to do more than open the gates and be a bit more social. From what I’ve seen most completely wasted interactions will ruin whatever you’re trying to get with a woman. Alcohol causes most to over commit one way or the other to their true intentions.

    Both your examples show it and they’re much like what I’ve seen in college and afterwards. Either the girl is put off by your pure sexual advances or runs away from someone drunkenly confessing an undying love that is way too fast and open for anyone to desire. You have to play it closer to the chest and alcohol lets vital things slip through your fingers.

    • http://www.hookingupsmart.com Susan Walsh

      @LeapofaBeta
      Welcome, that’s a great first comment! For the record, Caroline was not put off by the brooding loner coming clean with his feelings. They are still involved, though I won’t claim it’s been an easy relationship. It’s been on and off. But after what she’d been through, wondering whether he even liked her, she was thrilled to get that confession. He totally pulled it off. He was sincere, too – he hadn’t done that with another girl in a very long time. Whereas the first guy had her feeling really secure – good guy, likes me a lot. Then he showed his true nature when he got drunk. He became a total player, not surprisingly. In both cases, though, it was alcohol that caused each guy to let his guard down.

  • BJ

    Ask yourself, who can say ‘Lets go back to your place so I can cum on your tits’ while SOBER?

    If you can imagine a mentality where saying this makes sense, you figured out the game. To me if he had acted cocky and aggressive, like opening her with “I’m warning you, I can be a complete asshole. I say what’s on my mind and I don’t care about what anyone thinks,” now it makes sense that he would say the above. He probably wouldn’t even need to be drunk to say it. But if he just finished demonstrating how honorable and religious and close to his sister he is, that really don’t jive.

    • http://www.hookingupsmart.com Susan Walsh

      @BJ
      Well, he wasn’t honorable and religious, that was all an act. He wanted her to think he was a good guy, acting all boyfriendy and affectionate. But when he got wasted, he was a total douche, which was his real character. Of course, she felt taken advantage of, thankfully not pumped and dumped but pretty close. Actually, that language is so crass, drunk or sober. It really showed what kind of a guy he was.

  • http://flyfreshandyoung.wordpress.com flyfreshandyoung

    It’s funny how I sort of stumbled into a “vulnerability game” arrangement with alcohol. I’m incredibly unemotional and aloof when sober, so every now and then when I get even more hammed then usual and with a girl I’m seeing, I get a little, for lack of a better word, more expressive.

    They love it. “See I always knew you had feelings for me! Why can’t you be more like that sober?”

    “Because then we wouldn’t be dating” Better to show less than more.

    So yeah, In Vino Veritas.

    Or more like “Booze Unleashes Desire”. Hence why getting too shitfaced is counter-productive at times, not just for the sloppiness but because you can become a little too forward.

  • Odds

    Hmm. I just thought I drank because I’m Irish.

    Kidding aside, a couple of drinks (just short of enough for a good buzz) gives me crazy Alpha-level frame and state control. Whether or not I keep drinking after that depends on whether I’m drinking to drink that night, or drinking to spit some game.

    I’ll vouch for “in vino, veritas.” I can recall one night (well, I can’t recall it, but I was told later) where a girl asked if I would buy her a drink, and I flat-out told her that she was just trying to get free stuff for being pretty, like a “lady of the evening” (my friends tell me that was the term I used, anyway). She was not pleased. Or another night, one I actually recall on my own, where I told my then-girlfriend’s best friend exactly what I and everyone else thought of her. Worked out better for me this time, though, because most chicks secretly hate one of their friends, and this was that one.

    I have no natural inhibitions against telling a girl I think highly of her – that’s a habit I had to break on my own. But I’m too nice a guy by nature to say anything really negative about someone, even when they deserve it, unless I’m making a deliberate effort (Game), or I’m drinking. It works.

    • http://www.hookingupsmart.com Susan Walsh

      @Odds

      Kidding aside, a couple of drinks (just short of enough for a good buzz) gives me crazy Alpha-level frame and state control.

      Yeah, alcohol is the best lubricant on the market. I think a bit of a buzz goes a long way towards reducing social anxiety, and it can also help one relax. I self-medicate with a glass of wine every night when my husband gets home from work. If I don’t have it I crave it – seriously it probably is the Irish gene.

      Interesting that alcohol brings out the same qualities in you that Game does – you’re alpha on the inside, and alcohol lets it out. Embrace your inner alpha!

  • http://oldtimemoviereview.blogspot.com Jamie

    As a rule, I don’t take drunk confessions seriously. The first time it happens, I’ll grant them the courtesy of pretending it never happened. The second time, I get to tell my friends. Third time, we’re making fun of him.

    I feel that I get to be cynical because functioning alcoholics LOVE ME for some reason. I can’t figure out why. My parents are teetotalers. I drink infrequently. I rarely get drunk and if/when I do, I still have absolutely no patience for sloppy drunk people. Drunk people annoy the crap out of me. I don’t like the way they smell, I’m not interested in their emotional outbursts or cleaning up their vomit. If no one else is willing, I will see that they get home safe but I honestly don’t care where they pass out. If the sprinkler system wakes them up on their front lawn at 4am–good. My attitudes has been a source of conflict in a few of my relationships with people who drink heavily.

    Drunk people tell me they love me all the time. Sometimes they mean it and sometimes they’re just saying things so that they can “go home and cum on your tits.” I really can’t be bothered to pick apart the meaning.

    • http://www.hookingupsmart.com Susan Walsh

      I feel that I get to be cynical because functioning alcoholics LOVE ME for some reason.

      Haha, lucky you! It’s no fun being around drunk people when you’re sober, so I can imagine how annoyed you feel.

      Overall, Jamie, you crack me up. I really love the way you express yourself. Take no prisoners.

  • pvw

    Hmm…I’m with the crowd that doesn’t drink to get drunk, so there is not much to say, except that it is baffling that young women would do this. I remember all the warnings from my parents to be careful when drinking with men and that when women drink with men (and get drunk) they make themselves incredibly vulnerable. So it is sad now that in today’s smp, young women feel they need to get drunk in order to do what they would not normally do, hook up with a stranger and hope that will get them a relationship or something. Too sad for words…..On the other hand, I also take what men say while drunk with a grain of salt. People tend not to remember much of what they did when they were drunk and so their pronouncements are not as meaningful to me.

    • http://www.hookingupsmart.com Susan Walsh

      @pvw
      I don’t know what you see at your college, or if you have a sense of how much kids drink, but from what I understand binge drinking is epidemic on college campuses. That’s defined as >5 drinks, but I personally know women who take 8-12 shots over the course of a night. And guys who drink 15-20 beers. It’s actually surprising there aren’t more deaths from alcohol poisoning.

  • Sassy6519

    All this talk of alcohol has made me want one beer now. Why can’t a glass of Yuengling or Kentucky Bourbon Barrel Ale magically appear in my hand right now?

  • http://Dannyfrom504.wordpress.com Dannyfrom504

    “intentions don’t count. Actions do.”

    Truer words have never been spoken.

    • http://www.hookingupsmart.com Susan Walsh

      Danny, Danny, Danny (said in the form of a cheer)

      So good to see you in my living room!

  • Michael of Charlotte

    I had a professor in grad school tell the women in the class that before you married a guy, get him drunk first. I took that advice myself and have gotten a few girls drunk when I couldn’t understand their actions. Worked like a charm and I will do it again in the future.

    • http://www.hookingupsmart.com Susan Walsh

      @Michael of Charlotte

      I’ve never heard that as advice, but based on this post, I’d say it’s worth taking. Personally, before I married, I’d want to see a drunk display of total betatude. Instead of Doug asking what I think about threesomes, haha.

  • http://theprivateman.wordpress.com The Private Man

    As is stated all over the Manosphere regarding actions and words (intent, really), always look to a woman’s actions.

    It applies to men, as well.

  • BobW

    When I drink I lose the ability to make coherent plans.

    Sober I was too inhibited.

    • http://www.hookingupsmart.com Susan Walsh

      @BobW

      When I drink I lose the ability to make coherent plans.

      Sober I was too inhibited.

      Uh oh! Sounds like you need to figure out your sweet spot of a nice buzz.

  • http://www.yohami.com/blog/ YOHAMI

    I thought this post was going to be about Twilight?

  • Doug1

    Susan–

    I think this only works well when the guy gets pretty damn drunk, which I avoid doing and especially do when I’m picking up girls or having flings with them.

    “That last part is the most important. If a guy can tell you he loves you when he’s drunk, but disowns that when he’s sober, you don’t have a loving relationship. “

    I don’t know why you say that. The two might not have one yet but it could be going there. Lots of guys have learned enough through experience and hell on this even TV or movies will sometimes tell them, that telling a girl you love her too early and before she’s shown lots of IOI’s and at least come close to saying it to him, that it tends to put off girls and drive them away. So in other words he may be doing a tad of primitive game on that when sober.

  • http://4stargazer.wordpress.com/ Anacaona

    I thought this post was going to be about Twilight?

    Heh funny, good memory and Twilight I grant you *ginatingles* for that ;)

    My pathetic monogamy made me a very annoying drunk I used to tell all my friends (I only drink with really close friends that I trust with my life) how in love I was with my gringo. Then I proceeded to drunk call my own husband long distance to tell him how much I missed him and how bastards immigration were. Now when I get a bit tipsy I make up for all the times I couldn’t bang him bad and shamelessly. Cheers to booze!

  • Ceer

    If alcohol lowers inhibitions, it seems to me that it just makes you spout more of the same, rather than make you more truthful.

    • http://www.hookingupsmart.com Susan Walsh

      @Ceer
      No, because without alcohol you are putting up a front, hiding your real emotions. When you drink, you wind up spilling the beans.

  • Michael Meliorem

    I generally find this to be true. As a college kid, there are weekends when I drink far too much, but more often than not I’m the one who stops after a solid buzz and amusedly makes sure nothing gets too out of hand. My friends, both male and female (but especially female), can’t help but tell me how they feel about me as I’m helping them to their bed or letting them lean on me as they stagger around, respectively. It’s a great way to find out where true loyalties lie.

    I get my shares of “I love you, man” ‘s and “your girlfriend’s so lucky, I want to date you” ‘s, but I also get the occasional “look bro, i think you’re a ****ing douche and im sorry i never told you but thanks anyway.” I’m not stupid enough to attribute that to the beer talking.

    • http://www.hookingupsmart.com Susan Walsh

      @Michael Mellorem

      First time commenter I think? Welcome!

  • Lovelost

    @HUS
    I just finished my 2 rounds of johnnie walker, and I am still sober hopefully.

    In the next post, I will write about how you can go about using those drunken confessions to make him feel comfortable enough to fall for you and admit it. 

    Sounds like after the drunken night I get to hear we need to talk about relationship.

  • Mark

    Be careful with this!

    Alcohol lowers inhibitions. Those can be inhibitions to telling a girl he likes her, or inhibitions to lying to girl to sleep with her.

    I love the story about the drunk guy who “wants her to stay forever”. Three years later and “they’re still talking”? Wow, that girl is patient!!

    RF

  • Höllenhund

    So the great revelation by these drunks is that men want sex and girlfriends?

  • Jesus Mahoney

    My max was 23 beers. But that was in middle school, not college. By college, drinking seemed so juvenile.

  • pvw

    Hi, Susan, it is more a matter of what I hear of at my college, the Women’s Center and Student Health Services bulletins on the perils of drinking, ie., rape and sexual assault, the student orientation thing. I don’t believe I have had a student tell me of the downside of drinking, but if I did, I would send them along to Student Health Services. I hear of it too in the context of pressure from school leading students to drink…Yes, surprising no deaths from alcohol poisoning, but lots of alcoholism, I’m sure…so sad!

  • pvw

    Oh, and of course, driving along the student ghettos after a Friday or Saturday night, or driving along fraternity row, not a pretty sight!

  • Ken_Galbraith

    Ask yourself, who can say ‘Lets go back to your place so I can cum on your tits’ while SOBER?

    I’ve texted something similar, like “I’ll make you come” while being perfectly sober. The girl I’m seeing didn’t really mind. But she didn’t think I was serious.

    I don’t see the contradiction between being a boyfriend-material and being sexually aggressive. Girls already watch porn so how can they be offended by lewd remarks from someone they’re dating?

    • http://www.hookingupsmart.com Susan Walsh

      @Ken Galbraith

      I don’t see the contradiction between being a boyfriend-material and being sexually aggressive. Girls already watch porn so how can they be offended by lewd remarks from someone they’re dating?

      Private sexy talk is entirely different. If that particular act is something they’d done before and enjoyed, he might have whispered it in her ear and totally turned her on. (As it happens, it was not something they had already done.) It was his openly flirting with other women, followed by his making such a sexual remark in public that made her realize, or strongly suspect, he was not the “good guy” he’d been pretending to be. As I mentioned, he went on to be a total player on campus, so her instincts were correct.

    • http://www.hookingupsmart.com Susan Walsh

      Girls already watch porn so how can they be offended by lewd remarks from someone they’re dating?

      I’d be very careful about making this assumption. Very few women actually watch porn alone for their own enjoyment, and even if they did, it doesn’t mean they want to see those scenarios play out, especially in public.

  • LeapofaBeta

    I don’t see the contradiction between being a boyfriend-material and being sexually aggressive. Girls already watch porn so how can they be offended by lewd remarks from someone they’re dating?

    I think its more for people who are going from a casual relationship and looking for LTR.

    @Susan
    Glad the second example did end up working out. Sounded like he got sidelined to LJBF territory.

  • http://triggeralert.blogspot.com Byron

    Does a Drunk Man Never Lie?

    I had never really thought about this as a question in search of an answer before, but when drunk, people do loosen up, & open up, & it becomes very hard for most people to keep their mouths shut about whatever it is they’re feeling.

    The thing to remember is that, as with grass, & even more so cocaine & ecstasy, they become very honest only about what they’re feeling at that second. Drugs of all types make people’s realities shrink to their immediate sensations & needs.

    So, drunkenness can be used to gauge simple immediate things, such as whether a guy is hungry, or has always found you a little attractive & wants to sleep with you, but not whether he wants to drive to Las Vegas next week & get married to you. In other words, nothing to do with future projection, & the details of past recollections will also be heavily coloured by the emotional state of the immediate present, too.

    • http://www.hookingupsmart.com Susan Walsh

      In other words, nothing to do with future projection, & the details of past recollections will also be heavily coloured by the emotional state of the immediate present, too.

      Agreed. I have known several women who felt secure in their boyfriends’ love because he confessed it while really drunk, though he had never said it sober. In my view, those women don’t have anything to feel good about. So way down deep he feels love at that moment – but he doesn’t want to say it during the day. Even though he knows you love him. That should be a dealbreaker if love is what you’re looking for.

  • http://triggeralert.blogspot.com Byron
    • http://www.hookingupsmart.com Susan Walsh

      @Byron

      Ah, I loved Pet Shop Boys. Around the same time I was also listening to Orchestral Manoeuvres in the Dark a lot. Later came the Lightning Seeds in that same genre. God I love British bands.

  • Ramble

    I am assuming that you are going to follow this up with a post called, “A Drunk Girl Never Lies”.

    Wherein you say that if she is slutty and/or alpha chasing, then it gives you a good idea as to who she is.

    Right?

    • http://www.hookingupsmart.com Susan Walsh

      I am assuming that you are going to follow this up with a post called, “A Drunk Girl Never Lies”.

      Why would you assume that? Isn’t it already obvious? Are you suggesting that there is some sort of equal time I need to allocate each of the sexes? Because you may have noticed that I generally, though not always, address my advice to women.

  • MissMarie

    This is very timely for me. I’ve had a thing for this guy for three years that started out as FWB (I was stupid) and this is what we’d do – sit around and drink and have ‘confessional’ about whatever bothered us. Didn’t see each other for a couple years and now he’s back in my life and we’re doing the same thing. It’s really hard to guage though, what they tell you when drunk vs. what they say sober. Like, it’s obvious he still wants to sleep with me and I’m still his favorite person to talk to, but is it going to ever move onto a real relationship or just continue on? Sharing drunk feelings can be a double-edged sword

  • John G

    I’ll co-sign Byron with a rider. It’s a sort of okay rule of thumb to use after you’ve known someone for a while. As a person with a long love/hate history of drink, I can tell you that ambiance, diet, and the kind of alcohol being consumed will give you different results. Champagne makes me happy, vodka makes me mean.

  • Ramble

    Are you suggesting that there is some sort of equal time I need to allocate each of the sexes?

    I was mostly being a dick.

    But, also, honest. Just as drunken men reveal, often enough, deeper honesty…so do girls. The sluttiness and alpha chasing that you see when she is drunk reveals a lot about who she is.

  • Olive

    The sluttiness and alpha chasing that you see when she is drunk reveals a lot about who she is.

    It reveals hypergamous tendencies. Aaaand if you’ve been at HUS long enough, you know all women have those tendencies, even the heavenly angels.

  • DerHahn

    I’m not a huge fan of drinking so I don’t have a lot of experience with how I behave, or hanging around drunk people. A little bit of a buzz makes me relaxed but much more tends to amplify my low-key personality, and I wind up a quietly happy drunk. I’d probably be a little more honest if somebody engaged me in a conversation but I definitely don’t get talkative enough to go spilling my heart out to somebody.

  • Ramble

    Aaaand if you’ve been at HUS long enough, you know all women have those tendencies, even the heavenly angels.

    Oh, Olive, I am well aware, but I was hoping to provide some context and balance. But, in just one example, I knew two girls, on a given drunken night, who revealed their interest in one “good” guy over 2 other more “alphas”. Yes, they did do it in a somewhat slutty way, but it was still reassuring.

    Granted, had the night gone differently, at least one of those girls may have settled for blowing one of the alphas, so, it was not THAT reassuring.

  • Olive

    I knew two girls, on a given drunken night, who revealed their interest in one “good” guy over 2 other more “alphas”.

    LOL how would they know the dude was a “good” guy? I guess if they knew him before. At frat parties, especially where people don’t know each other or only know each other on a superficial level, women almost always go for the alphas or the hot dudes who have enough confidence to talk to them/approach them. Me included (not that I go to frat parties anymore, or party at all really. But I had my moments in college lol).

  • Ramble

    LOL how would they know the dude was a “good” guy?

    They lived next to one another in same dorm for over a year. It was not a frat party, just some friends getting together and drinking.

  • Jonny

    The intention to get drunk and achieving drunkenness is an action that should be judged. Trying to discern truthfulness after getting drunk is a bit like “closing the gates after the horses ran out.” It is bad judgement all around.

    I don’t get why people think drunkenness is like a truth serum. It is not. Even when I drank (not to excess, but to get a buzz), I knew exactly what I was saying and I held back. Sure, I was less inhibited, but this also means I am more willing to lie as well. Lying cuts both ways.

  • tvmunson

    In my experience, the only thing you can rely on when a drunk speaks is that he is very much into the emotion he is experriencing, it feels very real to him, and he will say usually terrible, hurtful things in that mood.. Very few drunks are jovial; in fact, the one unmistakable sign of a an alcoholic IME is that they will be isolated by the end of the evening, alone with their vehement distraction, sullen, truculent, ready to bite-they have become reptiles. I assume we are talking drunk here, wall banging, slurring, incoherent etc.

    As for truth, I don’t think it’s truth-truth of the moment, maybe.

    And for you in your 20s, or even early 30s, if this is a pattern you are in (regular extreme inoxication)-you are fucked. Fucked. It will only get worse, and what is semi-tolerable in a 20 something, perhaps even an especially attractive 30 something, gets uglier and uglier and uglier. The odds of you beating this are practically nil.

    Back to truth, and endorsing what Jonny said, basing your appraisal of someone upon what they say when drunk is like trying to predict the weather based upon your observation of a whirlwind.

  • tvmunson

    @Susan
    I’m an average guy, and watch porn occassionally. I have always assumed this would not be something women do much because almost all of it is geared to men. When I did watch it with my (now) wife (rare, very rare, and now never ; she hates it) I was pretty sure she was more interested in the lingerie and the woman’s (goddamned!) shoes, and then became uncomfortable as she compared herself with a naked porn star.Not exciting.

    But I think we overstress its importance. Porn leads to jerking off which leads to a sandwich which leads to a nap. For 94% of us guys anyway. The guys for whom it is more you’ll never meet anyway as they jerk themselves off to the point the calcium is depleted from their bodies and they collapse inwards and drain out their own assholes.

  • http://dannyfrom504.wordpress.com dannyfrom504

    Danny, Danny, Danny (said in the form of a cheer)

    So good to see you in my living room!

    thank you Tia. you know how i feel about posting here. BUT SEE. i show’did up. lol.

  • Tom

    Hi Susan,

    This article has prompted me to speak up. (I’ve been a longtime lurker and the conversation is normally over by the time I get on.)

    Something that hasn’t been mentioned much in this is that drunk people are more inclined to act imorally, i.e. say whatever comes into their head to get what the want. Without caring about the consequences.

    This is the big issue, people who are drunk don’t normally care about consequnces as much. Whether it is jumping off a roof into a swimming pool or hitting on all the girls, etc.

    Basically all the information you’ll get from a drunk person is that with the benefit of beer goggles they find you sexually attractive. It means nothing.

    Tom

    • http://www.hookingupsmart.com Susan Walsh

      @Tom
      Welcome, I’m glad you’ve decided to comment!

      I think you’re absolutely right in the initial stages of attraction. Getting hit on by a drunk guy is obviously meaningless. I was thinking more about something that’s been brewing for a while, and you have absolutely no idea what the other person is thinking. Usually, they’ll tell you when they’re drunk.

      Of course, it would be much better and easier for everyone if we could just speak our minds while sober.

  • Tom (not the lurker)

    Fact is male sexuality isnt that hard to explain. Yes men normally have a high libido. However some men are slaves to the little head. They CHOOSE, yes I said choose to listen to it instead of the big head. it is way easier to do that… an example is the choice to think negative thoughts or positive thoughts. No effort required to think negative thoughts, while there is a little effort required to think positive. Same with sexual choices. A man can just blindly follow his nature and chase pussy or he can use a little logic and live a sensible life with some sex mixed in. Im not saying living for pussy is wrong, just not very productive and is a killer of any relationship he may enter into. Booze does not have to bring out the sex fiend in every man.

  • Tom (the ex-lurker)

    Hi Susan,

    Thanks.

    I see you’re train of though, however, I still think it’s meaningless. A guy who only hits on you with the use of beer goggles is only saying – I’m drunk enough to screw you and I have total deniability with my mates after the fact for stooping so low as to hit on you. Sure there are exceptions to this, like one of the examples above, but only use people’s behaviour while drunk to see the truth of their negative side, not their positive side.

    Bottom line is: unless there is something done sober, then, it’s a high risk strategy.

    Why don’t you advocate giving the heavy drinking scene a miss? Join a mixed sporting team. Some sort of club. Going to afternoon parties where people aren’t getting smashed. And if you’re at a party that goes in that direction, respect yourself enough to leave so that you don’t have drunk people hitting on you.

    Something that doesn’t seem to be mentioned is the time cost. If you’re at a drinking to get drunk party, you’re not at a venue where genuine positive emotions can be expressed.

    • http://www.hookingupsmart.com Susan Walsh

      @Tom

      Why don’t you advocate giving the heavy drinking scene a miss? Join a mixed sporting team. Some sort of club. Going to afternoon parties where people aren’t getting smashed. And if you’re at a party that goes in that direction, respect yourself enough to leave so that you don’t have drunk people hitting on you.

      Something that doesn’t seem to be mentioned is the time cost. If you’re at a drinking to get drunk party, you’re not at a venue where genuine positive emotions can be expressed.

      I cosign this. I have written about drinking before, and warned against it. But I’m also aware how prevalent it is, so it’s relevant to address what goes on between drunk people, i.e. hooking up.

  • http://kaneadvice.wordpress.com Kane

    “Let’s get outta here. I wanna go home and come on your tits.”

    Every guy who ever found you attractive enough to want to take home was thinking this at some point.

    • http://www.hookingupsmart.com Susan Walsh

      @Kane

      Every guy who ever found you attractive enough to want to take home was thinking this at some point.

      Yes, the sin is not in thinking it, it’s in saying that out loud in front of a dozen people after hitting on other people’s dates all night. As I said in another comment, if he’d been a good date and then whispered that in her ear, it would have been a turnon! The guy turned into a total asshole when drunk.

  • Sox

    Problem is, alcohol has a way of amplifying emotions. And what’s the good of knowing how someone really feels if they only express it when they’re drunk?

    I drink a lot, but I do it to enjoy the drink, not get wasted (although it’s obviously a side effect at times). I always half-joke that I don’t trust a man who doesn’t drink, swear, or smoke.

    • http://www.hookingupsmart.com Susan Walsh

      And what’s the good of knowing how someone really feels if they only express it when they’re drunk?

      I think a lot of women get trapped into bad relationships this way. They “know” the guy cares, so they keep waiting for him to act like it, but he never really does. His real feelings are worthless – to her – in that case. This may happen for guys as well – probably does with women getting so drunk nowadays.

  • Teresa

    Hi Susan.

    Really glad I found this article. I dated a guy a couple of years ago for only a few short months but it was very sexual and ended with him leaving me with someone else. Recently he’s returned to my life only this time he has become my best friend. We have had a couple of hook ups early on (drunkin of course). We haven’t had any sexual contact more than kissing in two months however. We spend 2-3 night a week together, sleep in the same bed but don’t have sex. He tells me sober and drunk that I am his best friend and that he doesn’t want to ruin that. I agree to some degree. I have fallen head over heels in love. Last night, he got very drunk and right before he fell asleep, aka passed out, he wrapped his arms around me and whispered “I live you so much”. I only replied with “I know you do”. But I don’t really don’t know if he does. Sometimes ideally feel it, even when he’s sober but he stops short of saying it yet he’s proven to me that he would drop whatever he is doing if I really needed him and I have done the same for him. I made the mistake of sharing what he said to me with him this morning, his reply was “I need to stop drinking so much”. So I’m hurt today. The relationship he left me for only ended about 5 months ago and he says he doesn’t want to be in a relationship but here again one of last nights drunkin confessions was that he really needs to give in to a relationship with me. I don’t want to lose the friendship but it’s getting harder and harder to keep my feelings for him in check. I don’t want to push and he trusts me with everything. I am probably the only one who he has been vulnerable with. We laugh ourselves silly most the time but both of us have also cried in each others arms. I am thinking of backing away a little to see if my not being there so readily will help him understand what he’s feeling and if it’s the same as what I’m feeling. Any advice….please. Frustrated. Thank you.

    • http://www.hookingupsmart.com Susan Walsh

      @Teresa

      You’re very emotionally invested, and you don’t know if he is at all. Personally, I think the fact that he left you for someone else once before should be a dealbreaker, or at the very least a major red flag. How could you ever be confident he wouldn’t do it again? Now he’s giving a ton of mixed signals. You have two choices. One is to pull way back and see what happens. You would need to explain this, though. The other is to initiate a discussion about what the two of you are doing, exactly.

      The thing is, he may have feelings when he’s drunk, but if he’s not willing to own them in the light of day, they don’t do you any good. You need to find out what he’s thinking, asap.

  • http://google nextmyone

    I have been with a drunk for a few years. At first when we went dancing he said it was okay to flirt and dance with other men, but I go home with only him. I flirted for his benefit. I was asked by four different guys to go home with them. I rarely drink but I got drunk, but not stupid. I went home with (my man). A few years later, while working out of town, he met a woman. He got really drunk and slept at her house. He said she wanted him to hold her all night (but he didn’t do it). A few months later he took her somewhere for the weekend. They both got drunk and slept in the same same bed (but he didn’t do anything with her). I am now insecure, so he says! Get out of my life asshole!

  • adrenalinehigh

    Love your blog- such a wealth of information and perspectives from both you and the people who comment! *kudos* to you all! The drunken man/woman dilemma is something I always wonder about but then again, as you said…actions..not words. How about the follow up to this that you mentioned: using those drunken confessions to make him feel comfortable enough to fall for you and admit it. Nobody seems to address that part of it- especially when it’s something that has occurred again and again with the same guy!

  • http://romancemath.blogspot.com TT

    Susan, what do you think about the opposite? While drunk, he does something disgusting to you, for example, flirting with other girls and saying he has no recollection the next day?

    I have pretty high alcohol tolerance, and also more of a happy drunk than a crazy one. However, seeing my guy’s drunk actions though sober eyes sometimes gives me doubts. He’s often reserved, never affectionate in public. But drunk, he becomes too friendly and talkative, even flirty with other girls through my sober eyes. He would talk to female strangers, ask for their names, kiss female friends on the cheeks, and mostly likely running around to socialize and not talking to me. Sometimes I feel like if I leave, he might not even notice! I never quite confront him about it, he’s mostly likely completely wasted and staying in bed the next day, and I get too hurt and angry even thinking about the possibility of what his actions may imply. So I think to myself, it’s drunkenness, doesn’t mean anything. Sober, he is completely trustworthy – I never ever doubt anything til seeing him drunk. Does it mean he has hidden desires? Is it a breach of trust? Should I worry about anything?