In an effort to get a sense of the demographics of his readers, Vox Day recently posted a list of questions and asked for anonymous responses. He got 141 male and 14 female responses, which strikes me as an excellent response rate. He presented some of his data today at Alpha Game, and there was one finding he thought might be the “cad/dad solution” for HUS readers. Here it is:
6. There is a noticeable difference between the Alphas and the High Alpha players. The obvious dividing line there is around 40+ partners. So, there is the all-important distinction that many women have requested. Any man with more than 30+ historical partners should probably be assumed to be a ruthless player unfit for a long-term relationship as 62% of the men in this category were anti-marriage; only the male virgins, at 66%, were more strongly anti-marriage. This compares with the 80% of Alphas in the 15-30 category who were pro-marriage; all of those who were anti-marriage were irreligious and most were divorced.
(Note: After looking at the data, Vox defined Alpha as 15+ partners.)
It should also be noted that for the purposes of his survey, Vox defined the number of sexual partners as including oral sex. Generally at HUS we do not include oral sex, so adjust your conclusions accordingly.
In other words, if a woman is addicted to Alpha and insists on attempting to transform a cad into a dad, she can increase her chances of success and actually harbor a reasonable hope of doing so if his partner count is more than 10 but less than 30, and if he is religious as well.
1. Vox focuses on the lack of relationship fitness of guys who have had 40+ sex partners as a natural consequence of their being anti-marriage, although he also uses the word ruthless to describe their approach to sex. I am not sure which comes first:
- natural cad tendencies
- opportunities for NSA sex
- unwillingness to marry
2. I do not claim that men with 40+ partners would definitely make bad husbands, but regardless of their views of marriage, I would worry about men with that much sexual variety under their belts (heh). The 2004 National Life and Health Survey found:
For every premarital sexual partner, a man’s likelihood of being extremely sexually satisfied in marriage falls 5.3%. This means that a man with a number of 10 before marriage is 53% less likely to be describe himself as extremely satisfied in marriage. By implication, all men with 20 previous partners will feel moderately sexually satisfied in marriage at best.
3. Self-described religious Alphas with counts of 15-30 were pro-marriage. I agree with Vox that these men represent real catches – they’ve achieved significant success with women, but still hold to traditional values. Of course, if a woman is not religious, she is probably not interested in marrying a religious man regardless of his partner count.
4. One commenter at Alpha Game made the following observation about STDs:
There should be a qualifier for those claiming 35 to 40 plus conquests. Have they had/have an STD… And spare me the I always use a condom nonsense. Crabs, the drip, Derek Jeters Simplex 2 self identification would help separate the true players from the posers.
Vox agreed, saying, “Very good point on the STDs. Some of the alpha players I knew used to joke about playing STD bingo.”
This leads me to my previous claims that women are repelled by manwhores. The problem with that claim is that women are clearly repelled only when a certain threshold, i.e. partner count, is reached. Before that tipping point, the male benefits from preselection. A woman’s repulsion probably also depends on how she learns of his sexual past. Does she see him hitting on slutty women in public? Or does he tell her honestly that back in the day he pulled quite a few girls, but now he’s ready for a serious relationship? I know I would respond very differently in those two scenarios.
I don’t think 15-30 partners is very worrisome or predictive of much, especially if that number includes blowjobs. I agree with Vox that there are plenty of dads in that cohort.
30-40+ partners seems as good a place as any to draw a line for defining a cad. Since they wish to avoid marriage, even in their 30s, I’d say that high a number should probably be a dealbreaker for long-term dating.
Vox has indeed proposed a strategically sound solution to the dad/cad dilemma.