It’s not about the pesos.
What makes a great first date? Physical attraction, easy conversation, a pleasant environment in which to get acquainted. None of these criteria rely on the expenditure of money. A walk on the beach may be a much better way of getting to know someone than dinner at an expensive restaurant. In fact, I think fancy first dates are often difficult – people are more dressed up than usual, and the formality of dress and locale tend to restrict great conversation in my experience. Dinner winds up feeling like an interview rather than a fun, shared experience.
The question of who should pay for dates has become something of a hot button issue in recent years. In an era when women often earn more than their male peers, what are reasonable expectations? Is it just about money or does the “male pays” practice reflect our ancestral legacy of male provision as a signal of intent to invest in a particular woman?
It’s clear in discussions here at HUS that men feel women should pay their fair share. I agree with that, though I favor a system of taking turns over splitting the tab. It’s a practice that allows each party to take turns being generous, which sets a nicer tone than doing the math when the check arrives, or even throwing down matching credit cards.
In any case, while I understand male sensitivity to the idea of being taken advantage of, I think it’s largely a moot point among singles under 30. Dates tend to be fun and casual, if they occur at all. Perhaps it’s because in the transition from hookup culture to dating culture, sharing a messy burger and brew is less of a leap than ordering the seared foie gras and perusing the wine list.
How About We has built a very successful online dating site that is based on sharing fun experiences rather than expensive ones.
Now online dating is all about getting offline. Just say “How about we…” and post the dates you want to go on.
Check out people who like what you like. Make plans and go out!
Founded in 2010, it’s been hugely successful, and rolled out nationally with venture capital funding last year. From Mashable:
HowAboutWe is an online dating site — once New York-only, now national — that lets users propose unique date activities, making the experience more about meeting up and doing cool things than scrolling through pics and profiles.
Genius Idea: If you’re a tech-savvy person in your 20s and 30s, chances are you’ve been on an online date or two. And chances are, you’ve been on a horribly awkward — or downright awful — online date or two. The whole process can be overwhelming — scrolling through pages and pages of photos, sending messages into the ether, receiving countless borderline revolting epistles from dudes who only display photos of their torsos.
HowAboutWe seeks to alleviate that daunting experience by putting the focus on the date, rather than the hassle of getting there. Upon signing up for the site, users are asked to express their levels of interest in a series of dates, beer tasting, concerts, walks on the beach — that kind of deal.
This information — along with data from your profile — is plugged into an algorithm that determines what kinds of dates you’re sent via e-mail (every user gets a daily e-mail detailing dates that he or she might be interested in) and which show up on a stream on your homepage.
After answering said questions, users can create a rather barebones profiles (based on quirky questions like “What I would bring to show and tell?” and “One thing my mother would want you to know about me?”) that focus more on their personalities than their looks, and then propose dates that they would like to go on.
It turns out that neither men nor women are interested in going on formal, expensive dates. How About We has published a list of the top 10 proposed dates in fifteen cities. Many cost nothing, e.g. “Let’s go for a walk on the High Line,” and most are low cost.
Here are some highlights, starting with Boston, which I can price:
1. Museum of Fine Arts: Free one weekend a month, $25 regular admission, $30 for outdoor concerts in summer
2. Institute of Contemporary Art: Free on Thursday nights, $15 regular admission
3. Museum of Science: $22 regular admission to exhibit halls, $10 for IMAX
4. Drink: Hot bar on Boston waterfront dedicated to sophisticated mixology, about $11 per drink
5. New England Aquarium: $23
6. Magnolia Cafe: never heard of it
7. Toro: tapas and hopping bar scene
8. Arnold Arboretum: free
9. Cambridge Brewing Company: casual, beer
10. Trident Booksellers & Cafe: bookstore with coffee and snacks
1. The High Line
2. The Brooklyn Kitchen
3. Metropolitan Museum of Art
4. New York Transit Museum
5. The Biergarten at The Standard
6. Trapeze School New York
7. Chelsea Piers Field House
8. American Museum of Natural History
9. New York Botanical Garden
10. Brooklyn Brewery
And San Francisco:
1. Yosemite National Park
2. San Francisco Museum of Modern Art
3. Yerba Buena Center for the Arts
4. San Francisco Botanical Garden
5. Japanese Tea Garden
6. Aquarium of the Bay
7. San Francisco Zoo
8. The Independent Live Music Venue
9. Zeitgeist Beer Garden
10. iFLY SF Bay Indoor Skydiving
{ 85 comments… read them below or add one }
OK, not sure what the Brooklyn Kitchen is, do they mean Brooklyn Fare? If so, lol, because that’s one of the most expensive places in NY.
Yosemite is at least 3 hours by car from SF, hard to call that a sensible first date. Rest of the list looks OK.
This enviornment would suck for me, my favorite thing to do is go to nice restaurants.
The preference for low-cost dates definitely seems true in my experience. Most people I know from university that go on dates go grab a coffee at Starbucks or meet in a pub before going out with friends later in the evening.
I’ve been on a date once where we went iceskating. I can recommend doing that! It’s low-cost, fun (if you know a little bit how to ice skate…), you don’t have to worry about awkward silences because you’re already doing an activity and the other ice skaters give you plenty of inspiration for things to talk about, if necessary. Plus it provides opportunities for some innocent physical interactions
Brooklyn Kitchen offers cooking classes: http://www.thebrooklynkitchen.com/about-brooklyn-kitchen/classes/
I think that would be an awesome date.
And yet you want to say up front that she has to pay her way! So, asking a woman out for the first time might sound something like…
“I really like nice restaurants, how about dinner at Le Bernardin? Their tasting menu is a steal at $145, and with tip and wine I figure we can get by on $250 each. How about it?”
$250/per is probably not going to happen. $300 is more realistic.
Susan, at age 19, I took a girl to Chez Panisse on my own dime. Relationship went nowhere but I have never regretted a penny.
The problem with ice skating is that if you don’t know how to do it, you can end up looking like a fool and even if you otherwise have a lot to offer, that first impression can kill you. I went bowling once on a first date, bowled about an 80 or something dismal like that and I could see the girl just tuning out the whole time. Maybe she wouldn’t have liked me anyway but it couldn’t have helped.
The Badger recently had a post on venue selection based off an OP by Moxie. The comments explored how low cost dating can be a great way of screening to make sure that your partner has the same *ahem* lifestyle expectations.
I wouldn’t invest any serious money on a ‘date’ unless I was sure there was a good connection.
Fairly early on in our relationship, my bf took me to an anime convention. I’m not really into anime, but it was still great fun. Best people watching ever!
If you have a sense of humour, I’d definitely recommend that sort of thing.
Especially if you know how to skate backwards and she is not a great skater.
Take both her hands in yours as she faces forwards and you skate backwards. You should be making out within 30 minutes.
Dating for however many years, I’ve found that the best dates have had three things in common: 1.) Natural beauty; must be something bio-chemical, chemistry flows freer in the presence of nature. 2.) Novelty, experiencing something that one, or both of you have never experienced before. 3.) No more than a trace of a plan; with no expectations, plenty of room to be pleasantly surprised.
Last date: Met in the Commons, grabbed some froyo, cut through the Financial District, splashed at a fountain, ate at a food truck, sunned on the Southie waterfront, grabbed an iced tea, jumped whatever the first Commuter rail out of South Station happened to be, made out in a secluded pine forest by the ocean. All totalled, $60?
*A good, general rule is that who initiates the transaction pays for it, man initiating more tranactions than woman.
**Commuter Rails, secretly good for dates: a quiet, pretty ride, private seating booths, taking you 50 miles away from the city. $17, round trip?
***Fuss is best for occasions when fuss is culturally mandated. In some cultures, a houseguest represents God and must be treated like one. Honoring, when you understand that it’s custom, the same behavior would be off-putting otherwise. Same idea with dates, only on birthdays, anniversaries, etc,
The problem with ice skating is that if you don’t know how to do it, you can end up looking like a fool and even if you otherwise have a lot to offer, that first impression can kill you… Maybe she wouldn’t have liked me anyway but it couldn’t have helped.
I think it really depends on the girl, Esco, and how well the guy handles looking foolish. In fact, I think the experience of doing something unfamiliar is a good filter for both parties. If you meet a woman who dumps you because you can’t ice skate, what have you lost? OTOH, if you show yourself to be someone who deals well with new challenges and frustration, who is resilient and who has a sense of humor about himself, that’s going to be a tremendous DHV for a quality girl. I personally would rather be with a guy who can laugh when he falls down than with a good skater. I can’t imagine that a guy wouldn’t want to be with woman with a girl who shows concern for him if falls down than with a girl who finds it funny. I just about any activity that let’s people observe each others’ reactions is a good test of character.
All the Boston suggestions rock.
On my best first date ever I met a gal who answered my online ad at Miracle of Science in Cambridge – great cheap yet fun, non-dive bar near MIT – and we had dim sum the next midday (I know, that’s not how it’s supposed to go, but it did; the physical attraction was a tad overwhelming … well that and whatever she put in my drink!
) at Mary Chung’s in Central Square. Cheap and magnificent.
For one of the follow-up dates we went to Toro (No 7) – and we still go there all the time, same for Miracle of Science and Mary Chung’s, in fact we did dim sum there last weekend.
With the kids.
Men should always pay for the fist date. That way, the woman will feel obliged to pay for the second date, which is usually more expensive.
“men feel women should pay their fair share”
At least until he determines if she goes in the potential-wife or never-wife pile by whatever criteria so deemed by him
@Ian
Hey neighbor, I have to say that date sounds like the most fun ever. So fun. Any woman who would not prefer that to a fancy sit-down dinner is crazy, IMO. It would be perfect if she picked up something – the froyo, the iced tea…..
@Ian
That sounds like a really nice date for someone you have already gotten to know a bit. I have some qualms about ending up in a secluded forest on a first date though, for the protection of both parties.
“Dinner winds up feeling like an interview rather than a fun, shared experience”….I’ve frequently notice couples in restaurants who appear to be on a date and where the body language says “interview.” Interestingly, the body language also usually says that the man in the interviewER and the woman is the interviewEE.
@SF
That’s such a sweet story! Enjoy dim sum with the kids while you can. One day they’ll abandon you to hang with their own friends.
Mine ditched my husband and I last night. It was our second year of July 4th fireworks alone (but luckily together).
@SF
I love the Miracle of Science. I have advised many a young woman here to go there for drinks after work on a Friday. It’s a great date spot, too, followed by a walk over to Toscanini’s. I don’t know Mary Chung’s but that sounds more convenient for dim sum than Chinatown.
That is interesting! As you can imagine, I am very attuned to couples who are out together – my husband teases me because I’m always checking them out to suss out their dynamic. It’s often painfully obvious who’s on a first date, and sometimes clear there won’t be a second. My guess is that I don’t even notice the first dates that are going well.
One of the best free first/second date options I know of is a flea market …
Every booth you go to has multiple conversation pieces in it which should help you maintain a steady flow of communication without interogating eachother; there is a little bit for everyone there which gives you the opportunity to see what they’re interested in and get to know a little bit about them; and there are built in reasons for casually touching someone on their hands/arms/shoulders (essentially getting their attention).
Susan – “Mine ditched my husband and I last night. It was our second year of July 4th fireworks alone (but luckily together).”
Look on the bright side. This means you are getting closer to having your own life back, when you and the husband can do whatever you want, because you have no one to be responsible to but yourselves. My SO and I are actually pretty excited about the fact that our boys will be 16 in three years. Once they can drive, that will be two less kids to drive around town, and two kids that will be far less interested in what WE are doing, and more interested in what they can get themselves into. I love my kids, but they know we already have plans for their rooms when they move out. There will be no “failure to launch” issues at our house, because if they don’t learn to fly on their own, I’ll build a catapult and give them a push.
I have always enjoyed the idea of going to a theme park as a good date. You can walk and talk and get to know each other, and you can let your true self out easier while having fun riding rides or playing games. There’s little room for awkward silences and weird moments.
@Peppermint Panda
A flea market is a great idea and that reminds me – Farmer’s Markets are good too! Once I went to the one in Dupont Circle, Wash DC and I thought that would be the best date. Buy great bread, fruit and cheese, then go have a picnic somewhere.
@Ashley
Good one – and state fairs or carnivals are fun too.
Teehee! Fun dates are the most fun ever! Yay!
Another fluff piece.
susan, THIS is a coincidence: My fun and informal dates always prefer sex.
These are not inexpensive first dates. Trapeze school? Indoor skydiving? You are talking several hundred dollars. They’re inexpensive for the lady, but pretty daunting for the guy paying for it.
Look on the bright side. This means you are getting closer to having your own life back, when you and the husband can do whatever you want, because you have no one to be responsible to but yourselves.
Dude, it is bitter-frickin-sweet. On one hand, we got to walk hand in hand on the beach and be mushy together. OTOH, you really, really miss them and look back fondly on the years they were little. As I told DH, the bright side of them being “indepedent little fvckers,” as he called them, is that if they launch early we might still be in good shape when the grandids come.
My SO and I are actually pretty excited about the fact that our boys will be 16 in three years.
Be careful what you wish for. We were up still two o’clock worrying and texting because the kids got stuck in traffic trying to get home.
There will be no “failure to launch” issues at our house, because if they don’t learn to fly on their own, I’ll build a catapult and give them a push.
LOL.
Buy great bread, fruit and cheese, then go have a picnic somewhere.
Or buy ingredients for a meal you can cook together if the weather doesn’t permit a picnic.
these seem like things people write in order to not seem boring, not what they actually want to do…
@Susan
Great ideas.
I do think a few of your listed ones are to expensive. Especially if your writing for poor students who can barely afford their next case of beer.
I’ll add some of my own.
Flying a kite on the beach.(10 points if your lazy and tie it to something autokite flying ftw.)
Plays. I once took a date to a small local joint where my university put on a series of plays every weekend. Written and directed by students. Cost: $5. Took place in an open bar/lounge type setting.
Coffee + park. Especially if that park has an open stage with live local music.
Similar to ice skating but roller blading rink things (don’t know the technical term).
Personally anything over about 20 or so bucks is too much investment for a first date.
J – my oldest turned 18 this year, so I’m already past the wishing part. Don’t get me wrong, I miss them most of the summer when they are gone, and I’ll surely miss them when they move out and on. But, Lord willing I will be just shy of 50 when my SO’s youngest turns 18, so there should be PLENTY of time to do some fun stuff and get to meet my grandchildren. (my SO will only be 42!) And as much as I enjoy them being around, I already find that I enjoy my daughter substantially more now that I’m no longer legally responsible for her. You’ve seen my issues around “leading” and being responsible for others, so it shouldn’t be a surprise to you that raising children has been a bit of a mental burden for me. I accepted the role when I decided to be a father, but it doesn’t make it any more comfortable for me. I take it seriously, but I didn’t expect the sense of relief I felt when I watched my baby girl get her HS diploma. I am now fully looking forward to “getting my life back”, especially since I’ve learned an awful lot about how to be happy in the last five years. I have a TON of things I still want to do, and lots of places I want to visit. I have no doubt that we will NOT have any issue with “empty nest” syndrome. We both started the kid thing kinda young, and are greatly looking forward to living life how WE want once our obligations to them are completed.
I love my children to death, but they are by far the most limiting responsibility I have ever had in my entire life. I’m good with basing my decisions on what is best for them, but I can’t wait until I no longer have to worry about that.
@modernguy
You’re not worth banning but I do wonder why you’ve been showing up here. Were you under the impression that I owed you something?
@Firepower
Haha, good one! But I imagine that is literally true.
No one is forcing him to go on these dates! If a guy proposes a walk in the botanical garden he’s going to get some takers, and that price is $0. You’ve singled out the expensive options, but 90% of the most popular dates are free or low cost.
There is no reason a man has to take a woman on an expensive first date, and it might well work against him. A quality woman is looking for effort, not dollars.
Why do you think so? Is proposing one of these dates online any different than proposing one of them to someone you met on the corner? I think most people try to come up with a plan that makes it clear they’re not boring. I know I would.
Of course, if you are boring, you might suggest something boring and see if you can tempt a fellow bore.
Sleeping is boring. As a boring person, I propose we sleep with each other.
@Lokland
To be clear, these are not my suggestions – they are the most frequently proposed dates by thousands of people on How About We. I doubt many of their members are poor students, but I am encouraged that some of the most popular suggestions are indeed low cost. In fact, the #1 date in NYC is walking on the High Line. Free!
“Why do you think so? Is proposing one of these dates online any different than proposing one of them to someone you met on the corner? I think most people try to come up with a plan that makes it clear they’re not boring. I know I would.”
i think so because the met and the museum of natural history are full of old biddies and germans, not young hot numbers of either gender. meanwhile, the line for the uuntz uuntz bars goes around the block thursday-sunday. do you really think your average 23 year old in the tri-state can name their favorite room at the met? i’m not disagreeing with the main point, that people prefer simple first dates. just that the haute cultural suggestions seem more aspirational than realistic.
and yes, i think people would act different in sending out a message to the internets vs. talking to an actual person. by the time you’re making suggestions for dates. a real person is already paying attention to you — less need to fomulate a creative date idea.
They’re real dates, not abstract suggestions. This is what people, at least on this site, are planning. No one says you have to use their ideas.
The point of the post, as you rightly note, is that people feel most comfortable with and interested in fun, simple, cheap dates. The “goldigger” meme is vastly overblown or outdated, I’m not sure which.
I personally have loved museum dates, and I know quite a few young people who go on them as well. For example, Thursdays at the ICA in Boston are free and packed with young people. I don’t think anyone is proposing hanging out in the manuscripts room at the Met.
Also, I would love to go on a date to wander around the old dioramas at the natural history museum, then grab a drink on the Upper West Side. I would knock those old biddies right out of the way.
Hard for me to see the point of a first date where you’re focused on something other than your date. How do I know if I like you if I’m staring at paintings the whole time rather than talking to you? If I’m talking to you, why are we in a museum?
People here have criticized the idea of a date as an interview, but it kind of is, and I don’t see an easy way around that.
“They’re real dates, not abstract suggestions. This is what people, at least on this site, are planning. No one says you have to use their ideas. ”
well, no, they are “proposed” dates. the site appears silent regarding where the most actual dates occur. i still think the setup of the site encourages people to be more creative with their proposals than they would be ordinarily.
Who actually goes to a “uuntz tiss” bar for a date?! I can’t even hear myself think, let alone get to know someone. I always assumed the line was around the block because everyone wanted to get shit faced drunk, dance like mad, and hook up…
If dating is dead, then what is the problem with something unconventional? Museum is something I’ve always liked, so taking a woman there on a date seems like a natural idea. Hell, show her how much you know about history or science while you’re there, and you will get extra points for intelligence and mastery of a subject. (extra points if you talk to her about it passionately!)
What? You say the typical 20-something young women doesn’t care about Egyptian history? Well, why are you with a “typical” woman anyway? If you are interested in compatibility, it seems to me this type of “date” would quickly filter out women that don’t have similar interests and/or aren’t willing to learn something about YOUR interests. I wouldn’t expect every women I meet to care about Dinosaurs, but I WOULD expect any women interested in me to be interested in what I’M interested in, which might be Dinosaurs. If she seems uninterested, there is a good chance she isn’t interested in me at all, and my time would be better spent elsewhere.
DH and I will be in our early 60s when our kids are in college. I expect to live into my 90s though if heredity is a big factor. OTOH, I also expect to be pretty senile.
Escoffier – “Hard for me to see the point of a first date where you’re focused on something other than your date. How do I know if I like you if I’m staring at paintings the whole time rather than talking to you? If I’m talking to you, why are we in a museum?”
The idea isn’t to take her to a museum and stare at paintings in silence. OH no, you should be telling her what those paintings “say” to you. Tell her what you know about the artist that painted it. Or perhaps show her some knowledge of art history. Or, if you don’t know any of that, at least share your ignorance of art with her. If she knows something, it gives her a chance to teach you, and if not you can both laugh together about your lack of artsy-fartsy cred.
Remember, pull her into YOUR world. If art isn’t your thing, don’t go to a museum full of paintings. The Carnegie here in Pittsburgh has an awesome dinosaur display, and a great Egyptian exhibit.
I love going to museums on dates. I’m surrounded by beautiful and interesting things, and there are plenty of topics that one can talk about. I also love walking through the park, hand in hand, on a nice pleasant day or night. It’s very quaint, yet very fun.
Slim Tuna,
These dates really aren’t that out there. I’ve taken a few girls on museum dates, and all these girls were 21-24yo . It doesn’t matter where you go as long as you make it fun and energetic.
Hard for me to see the point of a first date where you’re focused on something other than your date. How do I know if I like you if I’m staring at paintings the whole time rather than talking to you? If I’m talking to you, why are we in a museum?
The exhibits are a pretext for the discussion, not the subject. “That picture reminds me of…” “What does it remind you of?” And they give you something to talk about if you get stuck.
I should say that while these museum dates were early on, they weren’t first dates. Still can’t beat coffee/drinks at a low key place for a first date.
You walk around and chat, and look at paintings and chat some more. I remember being at MOMA one time for a show and there was one painting by a German artist that was a mass of dark pubic hair smushed into thick white paint. Mr. HUS and I laughed so hard – and there were many other amusing works of art there as well. Perhaps that was not the artist’s intended response, but we had a great afternoon. We also went to other shows that were intended to be amusing – Jonathan Borofsky and Red Grooms come to mind.
I do think that if one goes to see a movie or play, it’s important to schedule drinks or a bite in as well.
I know a decent amount about art but talking about it on a first date would seem to be “trying too hard” and a major turn-off (for the woman). OTOH, I would feel dishonest pretending that I didn’t know anything.
The Grace Kelly GF and I once went to the National Gallery in DC and I tried to tell her various stories about paintings I knew but it just pissed her off.
I would argue that demonstrating knowledge about art/history/etc. is actually 100% meaningless on a date …
In general your date will like you better if you’re relaxed and having fun, and you will like her better if she is relaxed and having fun. You may no nothing about Caribbean food or culture, but odds are pretty good that you will be more relaxed and having more fun at a Caribbean festival in your town than you would be in an “interview” date. The conversation will be much more natural and even bad jokes will seem much better “Man, this Jerk Chicken is good, I wonder what the nice-guy chicken tastes like?”
Unless you’re the most interesting guy in the world, it is best to save sharing the trivialities of your life until after she is already your “girlfriend”
There was one painting by a German artist that was a mass of dark pubic hair smushed into thick white paint.
Who was the artist? Bruno?
OK, real quick I’m gonna give my take on this here.
First off, Ms. Walsh – what has been made clear by the fellas in the forum on this issue, IS THEY DON’T WANNA WASTE TIME AND MONEY ON A GAL WHO AIN’T FEELING THEM, I.E. ISN’T SEXUALLY ATTRACTED TO THEM. For whatever reason – be it because they just aren’t, or need “more time”, or because they just want to go out, etc. Guys don’t want there to be a deadend, and they’ve come up with ways and means to deal with that. Which leads me to the next point…
I do think that the hookup culture, BOTH ON AND OFF THE WHITE COLLEGE CAMPUS, coupled with the Seduction Community going mainstream, along with the Great Recession/Mancession, has all conspired to create the conditions that make websites like “How About We?” possible today. Whether that’s a good thing or not I’ll leave others to deal with.
You make a very powerful and pertinent observation for the over 30 and to be honest, the latter 30 into the 40s cohort – they’re the ones who do the hardcore dating these days, and I’ve found, that the Women in this cohort DEMAND to be “properly courted”, even when often, they know they ain’t really feeling dude like that. Not saying that they should, but guys now know that Women don’t need to be wined and dined if you Mr. Big – your very presence makes the panties drop. In truth, the “proper date” is really for the guys she’s trying to scew up the SEXUAL ATTRACTION for, and again, like I said, guys nowadays know this. This is one reason why so many Women in the mid 30s-mid 40s cohort are making so much noise (there are other reasons, too), because guys know the deal and those who ain’t Mr. Big vote with their feet (hence the whole MGTOW stuff).
Online Dating is a massive timesuck and rathole for most guys, and OKCupid talks about this. And since it is not at all unusual for Women to be online dating FOR YEARS, I honestly question whether it’s a good deal for them either. It seems the only real winners there are the online dating outfits like MAtch.com and so forth.
Finally, I see NOTHING wrong in the least with “the interview date” format. I like it, and it has proven very effective for me personally. There is this “Eddie Murphy” meme among Brothas that I do not like – I like to project professionalism, seriousness, competence, and my intelligence, and all of that doesn’t come through if I’m smiling and acting like a fool. When a young lady arrives, I have a list of questions already prepared, literally, and simply proceed to ask her these questions in a relaxed, comfortable manner. if she complains, I simply ask if she went to school; if she says yes, I then ask if how did that happen; did she test in or what. I’ve found that even Women who didn’t hit it off with me thanked me for being serious, which is something that, I am sad to say, many Brothas are not.
There’s a reason why companies like Apple, schools like Harvard, and organizations like the US Military, are successful, gentleman. Do what they do and you too will be successful in the Game of Love.
OK, that’s it.
Hit me…
O.
LMAO!
No clue. Are you telling me there’s an artist famous for that?
@Obs
First is was money, now it’s time and money? I’m not seeing it, but then again I don’t focus on the 30+ crowd. I don’t know any women who waste their own time with a guy they’re not attracted to, and I don’t know any women who are not at least as capable of buying their own treats as any guy.
My guess is that the average age on How About We is older, but I don’t have good info – I’m just basing that on the pics. In any case, most of the women I know who do go on dates can’t wait to find the guy so that they can stop, and start “staying in.” That’s an exact phrase I’ve heard young women use – “I want someone I can stay in with.” The bar scene gets old, and lots of these women are out all the time due to work and social obligations.
Re the interview format, to each his own. I think it’s pretty clear that the trend is definitely away from traditional dating.
Ummmmm…Susan, maybe since you’re a MBA and run in an elite crowd this stuff is inexpensive to you, but to a current under-30 going through the worst economic environment since “Great Depression,” saddled with debt and poor current job prospects, $40-$50 is a LOT to spend on a girl you are JUST MEETING that probably is NOT going to like you.
In contrast, that’s a few used videogames that could provide hundreds of hours of entertainment.
I do kind of get what Tuna is saying (I think). A lot of the date suggestions are very clearly trying to project a certain image, ie. “Hipster”, or “Intellectual”.
But hopefully the people making those posts are getting responses from other people who consider themselves Intellectual/Hipster/Arty/Whatever.
And who knows, maybe the site will increase museum attendance among young people.
A good post Susan. Timely too. I’ve just had a first date with a woman I met at a trade fair. When she discovered I’m from Melbourne she told me she loved the coffee culture there. I am a major coffee fiend and love socializing in secret cafes down secluded alleys. Good company and a ristretto or three is my idea of heaven.
I suggested we meet up at a little coffee haunt near my place. Very simple – just a couple if hours chatting over coffee on a Thursday morning. It’s times like this I am thankful for my flexible work schedule.
I’d Like to see her again. I just need to resolve the logistics. My son is in a nanny’s care from Monday morning to Friday evening. So dates have to be during the week for now. We discussed taking her for a surfing lesson as I love to surf but that could be tricky during the week.
Are people not reading the post? Why do people keep assuming these are my tried and true recommendations? No one says you have to go skydiving. I happened to be struck by the fact that several of the top dating proposals are FREE. In fact, the pictorial graphic of Boston easily includes a dozen free dates and another dozen for less than $10. You can easily go on a date in Boston for T fare. Have a drink at Drink after hitting the ICA on a Thursday and the whole night has set you back $22. That’s the price of a movie.
Sure, GYOW is a real money saver.
No wonder I like them. There’s nothing more attractive to me than an intellectual hipster.
Mine ditched my husband and I last night. It was our second year of July 4th fireworks alone (but luckily together).
How old are your kids?
You walk around and chat, and look at paintings and chat some more. I remember being at MOMA one time for a show and there was one painting by a German artist that was a mass of dark pubic hair smushed into thick white paint.
I recently suggested to watch a Mexican artifacts exhibit at LACMA with my hubby and in laws, for some reason I forgot how big on human sacrifice the Aztecs were (and I mean forgot in the sense I only think on nice things I did took history) lots of amusing moments when staring at the “sacrificial, idols stones and the like” and reading the labels out loud. It was “Oh true you used to kill a lot of people for the Gods…in many creative ways….” I’m sure it would had been a good first date for us weird/ boring types and we went on the “free day”!
I think going finding out village like places and grabbing ice cream/coffee or cupcakes before sitting on a park are also fun and cheap.
@SW
Are you telling me there’s an artist famous for that?
LOL, no. I meant Sacha Baron Cohen’s Bruno.
@Ana
Seven and nine.
J/K. They’re teenagers.
@ms walsh:
No doubt women anywhere btw the ages of say mid 20s-through the mid 50s and beyond can fend for themselves. No question about it.
But you have no idea how many women long for the “courting experience” which a “proper date” implies. Im pretty sure this is the case among white women in this age group but i can tell you for a fact that black women in the 30s and 40s DEMAND to be “wined and dined”. The problem of course, is that more often than not the dude just aint the one nor is he anywhere near it. You said it yourself, the guy assumes the risk and pays for an “audition”. Well, since that cohort isnt your focus (yet; one suspects it will as your daughter nears that age especially if she hasnt married off by then), you wouldnt know; but i do, at least among black folks and i can tell you brothas are dropping out-not unlike whats happening among some white guys.
Now you may say “so what? Let em!” but heres the problem-even a say, 5% dropout rate can do damage to the smp. Again like i said, women of the older cohorts are making a lot of noise about this both on the white and black sides. Part of the reason for that noise is because guys are figuring out that if theyre not even in the running why bother at all-and this brings me to the next point…
…yes, i should have been more precise in saying “time and money” because thats what the guys spending on both counts. For women if the guy aint it, oh well back to the drawing board; not so much for the guy. Hes gotta go through the process of trying to set up dates all over again. Which as we all know, that unless youre in that small cohort of guys who can make it happen like that, its a heck of a lot easier said than done.
As for the younger set, yea i agree their kinda “pack” hanging out together makes a lot of sense…for those who do indeed hang in packs. Of course theres lots of gals and guys who dont do that much at all and i suppose they get it together at some point when theyre older.
Then again maybe not…
O.
There’s nothing more attractive to me than an intellectual hipster.
Intelligent or Intellectual.
I find Intellectuals to be insufferable.
Seared foie gras???!?!?
You don’t know much about it, do you.
Besides, it’s illegal in some of our more PC enclaves anyway (cruelty to geese and all that).
I think the criteria which makes a date activity a good one is whether or not it allows for improvisation. Movies are less than ideal because you can’t even talk to your date if you want to. Simply “taking a walk” might be no good (unless you already know you like your date) in case you find it difficult to make conversation or keep it flowing.
IMHO, museums and festivals or flea markets are great because they do allow you to talk and discuss things if you want to, but there’s also enough around you to pay attention to and feel somewhat less awkward if your date isn’t going so smoothly. And while I appreciate a man offering to pay, I prefer not to let him do so, or to reciprocate equally, at least in the beginning. That way, if it doesn’t work out, he doesn’t feel taken advantage of and I don’t feel like I took advantage. I’m not interested in anyone’s money, or in wasting anyone’s resources – time, money, whatever.
I once went with a friend to the Museum of Surgical Science here in Chicago – the kind of place where they have preserved human bodies dissected and on display so that you can observe the entire network of internal systems, and fascinating historical medical paraphernalia. It’s not nearly as morbid as it sounds, but I guess you have to be into anatomy and medicine to enjoy it. That place is incredible, and I’d love to go back with a date sometime. Has to be the right guy, though – that stuff isn’t for everyone.
Since I’ve recently begun geocaching, I’ve decided that that’s a perfect date activity. (For those unfamiliar: treasure hunting, basically, out in your city/town/local forest/whatever – the internet can tell you all about it) It’s free, it’s adventurous and light, it can be unpredictable, you can keep it quick or make it an all-day activity – it’s very versatile. I’m saving that one for if I ever get a date with the fellow I’ve got my eye on
both sexes prefer fun and informal dates if you are accepted in the dating world. Asian american men and Indian American men have it the worst in dating. Fun formal dates are fine for men from white, black, hispanic, but not asian nor indian men. Men are attracted to asian women and indian women but the opposite is not true. American women (white, black, hispanic) will only go for asian american or indian men if hollywood gives them the approval. Read articles about asian american men in dating and you will realize you women have it way easier. Once hollywood starts promoting asian indian american men as sexy, attractive, dateable, you women would not mind dating them. Till than dating is a war zone for asian american men not approved by society
Man, the cost of living in Boston has to be high. That’s about the price of 3 movies in every state I’ve ever lived in.
Do you?
httpv://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xGaI4xpV4h8
California is the first state to make foie gras illegal, effective 5 days ago!
P.S. I am sooooo tingling for this chef right now.
I meant a movie for two, as in movie date. Movies here are $10-11.
I’m sorry, but this is so stupid, and I hate hearing it all over the manosphere. Hollywood is not what’s holding these men back, it’s their own insecurities and social upbringing. If Asian and Indian men play to their stereotypical roles in American society, then yea, they will have problems, but the same goes for socially awkward, STEM-type white/black/purple nerds. I’m an engineer but I never expected it to get me laid, so these men should stop thinking that.
I’ve been around enough socially savvy Asian and Indian men who get laid on the regular (with white women too, OMG) to realize that the above line of thinking is garbage. As an anecdote, I play high level poker, which attracts plenty of Asian men, and just this past weekend I saw more than a few Asian guys with amazing arm candy sitting behind them at the table. But of course, these aren’t guys that are home wallowing on a Friday night; on the contrary, they are out drinking, gambling, being boisterous and living a fun life that attracts women. If you want to attract women, do things to attract women and stop thinking they will fall in your lap.
Seared foie is a classic.
I was in CA last week, the week before the ban, and I had foie everywhere I could. This is going to be very bad for Keller.
BTW Chicago banned foie some years ago but then repealed it. California I don’t think is going to repeal it.
FYI, Susan, L’Auberge is the best place in Carmel Village but the best restaurant in the Monterey Bay by far is Marinus, about 10 miles down the road in Carmel Valley. Going this August!
Yeah, I read that people were going crazy eating it right before the ban took effect. Animal rights activists call it the “appetizer of despair.” Lucky you, able to scarf up all those calories without worrying.
The video of the chef slinging all that fat around in the pan was something else.
And Mrs. Escoffier is a reluctant guest at all these incredible dinners?
Mrs. does not go to even half of them. Though she is going to Marinus. She’s going to hate it though because I booked the chef’s table, which doubles down on the wierd.
She likes Danko, though.
I’m going to express a contrarian opinion here: Back in the old days there were structured social events which one was expected to attend with a ‘date’(I think the word ‘escort’ was also used back then before it had acquired its present, rather shady connotation). I think these sorts of structured occasions allowed people to accompany each other, share the experience of social obligations and get acquainted with few sexual/romantic expectations or pressure. I think the ‘fun’, informal date involves a lot more sexual/romantic expectations, even though people think that’s what they are trying to avoid.
I think the abandonment of those old structured social occasions is one of the biggest changes in American dating culture.
Ah, thank god. That definitely changes things, haha
The BF and I went to the High Line just a few weeks ago. It was lovely. I highly recommend it.
My feeling about the list is tries too hard to impress the date. Although it might be relatively inexpensive, it might still cost a bit more than what I regard as an informal date where you never spend more than $40 per couple.
More rules of thumb. Don’t take dates to movies. Movies are a killer of conversation. So the IMAX movie is OUT.
Just go to coffee as the first date.
This is probably an awful thing to confess to, but most of my “first dates” were when I asked for her number before the walk of shame. If she answered my (brief) texts, then that sordid hookup suddenly became a first date.
If a fee months went by, then maybe a picnic on the lawn at the Arnold Arboretum, or a hand in hand walk down Museum Mile or Central Park East.
I do think guys should pay, even if she’s a managing director or a securities lawyer or a medical resident. We don’t really need all the trinkets from fashion magazines, as men, nor are our student loans as high (state schools being far more manly than the Ivies) and no matter how much economic power our society hands to women, they still enjoy being taken care of, as a demonstration of strength.
Just walking around Fanueil Hall can be fun, and there’s usually an opportunity to see what she admires there, as either an indication of her tastes or (if she deserves it) a little gift.
Off topic, but I also think a world where force fed geese are given more attention than the male crises in education and employment is a world that’s in a helluva lotta danger of collapsing. Besides which, Foie Gras (with a sauterne or Riesling) on a scoop of baguette is beyond delicious if it’s fresh and good quality. Once upon a time, men bought that stuff and happily shared it with their dates; thanks to the left, that world is fading fast, if not dead and gone.
@andronicus
This comment really packs a punch. Three sentences, three great points.