Promiscuity is often linked to maladaptive personality traits. Hare’s Psychopathy Checklist includes it in two of its 20 items:
11. PROMISCUOUS SEXUAL BEHAVIOR — a variety of brief, superficial relations, numerous affairs, and an indiscriminate selection of sexual partners; the maintenance of several relationships at the same time; a history of attempts to sexually coerce others into sexual activity or taking great pride at discussing sexual exploits or conquests.The Dark Triad traits of narcissism, Machiavellianism, and sociopathy are linked to a short-term mating orientation, resulting in more sexual partners but poor relationships.
17. MANY SHORT-TERM RELATIONSHIPS — a lack of commitment to a long-term relationship reflected in inconsistent, undependable, and unreliable commitments in life, including marital.
There is also considerable research correlating promiscuity to the personality traits of low agreeableness and low conscientiousness. Extraverted, impulsive, and sensation-seeking personalities predict:
- Multiple sexual partners
- Unprotected sex
- Intoxicated sex
- No-strings sex
New research by psychologists Dr. Martin Sellbom and his doctoral student Rebecca M. Kastner at the University of Alabama explores the boundaries further by examining psychopathy above and beyond personality traits relative to sexual behavior (Hat tip: J). In Hypersexuality in college students: The role of psychopathy, Sellbom and Kastner looked at the link between psychopathy and hypersexuality in 393 undergraduate students. Using the Psychopathy Personality Inventory (PPI), which has been found valid in criminal, community and college settings, the researchers looked at two particular aspects of psychopathic behavior.
1. Fearless Dominance
- Charming
- Grandiose
- Eager to take risks with little regard for consequences
- Absence of anxiety
2. Impulsive Antisociality
- Reckless disregard for safety of self and others
- Aggressive
- Impulsive
- Blames others for personal misfortunes
- Uses others for personal gain
(Note how closely these descriptions align with the Charming Sociopath and Brooding Loner of my previous post.)
Per the study, previous findings:
- Theoretical underpinnings for the link between psychopathy and hypersexuality include an underactive behavior inhibition system (BIS), which would lead to a failure of behavior regulation, including inhibiting sexual behavior in potential threatening contexts (e.g., Hughes, Moore, Morris, & Corr, 2012).
- Psychopathy has been associated with promiscuous sexual relations at a young age for both men and women (Visser, Pozzebon, Bogaert, & Ashton, 2010).
- Impulsivity/irresponsibility were significant predictors of risky sexual behavior in adolescents, particularly girls (Rucevic, 2010).
- In a sample of college students, Jonason, Li, Webster, and Schmitt (2009) found that psychopathy was related to an exploitative social style measured by several aspects of hypersexuality including sociosexuality, number of sex partners, seeking a short-term mate, and short-term mating.
- Primary psychopathy (callousness, charm, egocentrism) in both men and women is associated with coercion to gain short-term sexual partners (Fulton et al., 2010; Muñoz, Khan, & Cordwell, 2011).
- Gender differences on indicators of social dominance (high social dominance in men; low social dominance in women) have been shown to predict infidelity in a community sample (Egan & Angus, 2004).
The contribution of the current study was an investigation of the link between Fearless Dominance (FD) and Impulsive Antisociality (IA) to hypersexuality. Sellbom and Kastner looked at the correlation between the PPI and numerous other personality and sexuality inventories. Of particular interest was the Sociosexuality Orientation Inventory. The SOI is of great interest to me here at HUS, because it measures a person’s attitudes towards sexual behavior and reliably predicts that behavior. The ability to predict promiscuous behavior is obviously of critical importance in selecting a partner.
The construct of sociosexuality or sociosexual orientation captures individual differences in the tendency to have casual, uncommitted sexual relationships.
…[The SOI] assesses sociosexual orientations along a single dimension from “restricted” (indicating a tendency to have sex exclusively in emotionally close and committed relationships) to “unrestricted” (indicating a tendency for sexual relationships with low commitment and investment, often after short periods of acquaintance and with changing partners).
On average, men tend to be more unrestricted than women in their sociosexual orientations, though there are also large individual differences within both sexes (Schmitt, 2005).
The current study looked at the following SOI factors:
1. Number of sexual partners in the past year
2. Number of sexual partners in the next 5 years
3. Number of one time sexual partners
4. Number of partners used condom with
5. Number of times fantasized about someone other than partner
6. Sex without love is OK
7. Enjoy casual sex with different partners
8. Need to be attached to partner to enjoy sex (reversed)
The Findings
The current findings indicate that psychopathy adds to the prediction of hypersexuality above and beyond sensation seeking, antisociality, and impulsivity. Both factors offer unique prediction of hypersexuality; however, IA was generally a stronger predictor than FD. For risky sexual behavior in particular, an interaction effect for the factors was significant; thus, high scores on both FD and IA predict higher levels of hypersexuality than either factor individually. In other words, individuals who are fearless, interpersonally assertive, egocentric, exploitative, and impulsive are especially prone to engaging in sexual behavior with potentially harmful consequences.
…There is something about the maladaptive constellation of psychopathic personality traits that afford particularly high risk for dangerous sexual practices.
…Both facets of psychopathy were predictive of these various processes with the exception of sexual inhibition. Impulsive-Antisociality was generally the better predictor, which is not unexpected because this psychopathy facet tends to be associated with overt behavioral outcomes in general, including the inability to delay gratification and lack of careful consider- ation of consequences (e.g., Benning et al., 2005a).
Interestingly, they found that while most people experience some sexual inhibition due to the threat of performance failure, the presence of Fearless Dominance hampered inhibition. “Individuals high on this psychopathy facet might be particularly prone to seek out thrilling, dangerous, and otherwise anxiety provoking sexual situations.” This is in keeping with the testimonials of various promiscuous men online, who generally display strong immunity to feelings of failure or rejection.
Psychopathy in the Population
Futurist and ethicist George Dvorsky notes that psychopathy results from dysfunction in the amygdala. It’s estimated that 1-2% of individuals are psychopaths, and 3-5% of people in business are!
Scientists have determined that there is a genetic component to psychopathy. They argue that genetic factors may generally influence the development of psychopathy while environmental factors affect the specific traits that predominate. Geneticists have calculated that the heritability coefficient for psychopathy is around 50%.
Psychologist Robert Hare has argued that psychopathy does indeed have a genetic component. He has observed how many (male) psychopaths have a pattern of mating with, and quickly abandoning women, and as a result, have a high fertility rate. His contention is that these children may inherit a predisposition to psychopathy.
It seems reasonable to hypothesize that the current SMP, with its culture of casual sex, comprises a strong environmental factor that creates or exacerbates psychopathy in both men and women.
Evolutionary psychologists theorize that psychopathy represents a frequency-dependent, socially parasitic strategy. This may only work, however, as long as there are few other psychopaths in the community. More psychopaths means that there’s an increased risk of encountering another psychopath as well as non-psychopaths likely adapting more countermeasures against cheaters.
That said, this “social parasite” theory doesn’t take into account the ways in which psychopaths can be successful in modern society. It might be an increasingly adaptive trait. As already noted, there’s a heightened tendency for psychopaths to enter into the business world. Similarly, there’s the (potentially) increased likelihood for political success.
It’s also quite possible that humans are evolving away from psychopathy. Perhaps the 1-2% is the smallest proportion yet in our species’ history. It’s generally thought, for example, that women are selecting for kinder, gentler males. This self-domestication has resulted in an increase in empathetic traits over time. It’s quite possible that we’re the “kindest” version ever to appear in our evolutionary trajectory.
The Bottom Line
Not all psychopaths are sexy, and not all sexy people are psychopaths, but the link to promiscuity is significant. I advise both sexes to avoid promiscuous partners. Even if you can live with their body count, they’ve likely got other maladaptive qualities that make them deficient in forming and sustaining relationships. Using the 8 sociosexuality orientation criteria above would be an excellent proxy for identifying psychopathy in both sexes.
The researchers end their paper by recommending identifying at-risk individuals in an attempt to “decrease behaviors that are unhealthy for themselves or others.” I have some suggestions as to where these psychopaths may be found on campus. 
You’ve been warned. Proceed with the Brooding Loner or Charming Sociopath at your own risk.
Many thanks to Dr. Martin Sellbom, who graciously provided the study gratis at my request.
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Just had the time to check in on this, and couldn’t read all of it, but one comment resonated intensely with me, and that was Antitype @6 and 7.
I wouldn’t say that I’m a nice guy, but I would say that I’m considerate. Personally I think those two are quite distinct terms. I don’t tiptoe around people’s feelings, but I do have empathy for others, and I don’t like hurting others or seeing others hurt. I still to this day feel guilty about breaking up with my ex, even if it was the right thing to do. However, I temper this with a strong focus on personal responsibility. I don’t feel guilty about having casual sex with a girl. I don’t coerce anyone into my bed, so being there was her choice, and if there are negative consequences for her, so be it.
I also don’t have a problem with how I relate to women at bars. Being charming and a little bit of a dick is how I relate to men as well. It’s just who I am. However, it’s not all of who I am. I love talking at length about history, economics, psychology, hooking up (smart), and a variety of other topics. The problem is that my success with women via the first frame of relating to them has slowly eaten away at my ability to relate to them in any other way. With experience comes knowledge, and it’s just so risky to open up in any way to a woman, especially the good-looking ones. I’m not going to lie, I will only date a girl I’m very attracted to. I’ve found in my experience the better looking the woman, the less room for letting slip the “mask of game”. One moment of vulnerability that comes to early can sink you forever. So tempered by this experience, I find it very, very hard to EVER let it slip. I desperately want a girl with whom I can let it slip. I can do this on occasion with my closest guy friends (although showing weakness to other men is something that can only be done with those I’ve known the longest and trust), and with some very close girl friends. However, I don’t care about those people in the way I care about an SO (wife, gf, etc). It’s not the same. Dating has become a full blown war, and although I’m winning most of the battles, I’m losing the greater war. At first, I relished winning each battle (and they truly are battles). I loved the thrill of victory, getting her into bed, getting another notch on the post. But after enough wins, the victories are completely hollow to me now. I honestly have gotten to the point where I could care less about having sex. That doesn’t stop me from doing it, because I still have a penis hard-wired to want it, but the next morning I feel no rush of victory, no sense of achievement. It’s hollow. And usually, it’s shitty.
I had sex with two different girls two weekends ago, and both times, the sex was awful. So much so that I’d probably rather have been in front of my computer with my right hand instead. Tuesday night, I went on a fourth date with a girl that I’m very interested in. We get along really well, we have similar interests, she’s smart, and she’s very attractive. We ended up back at my apartment, and fooled around for 30 minutes or so. We didn’t have sex in any way shape or form, but I would trade both experiences I had with those other two girls for another 30 minutes in that bed with the one from last night.
Susan, call it whatever you want (Confessions of a Player), but repeated casual sex has made me more cynical and has come to mean nothing to me. I don’t feel guilty about it, because those girls made their bed (mine) and so they must lie in it, but I fucking hate what it’s done to me.
PS
I knew a real sociopath in college. Lived with him (not as roommates, but with other guys too) for 2 years. We all honestly think he’s the worst human being we’ve ever met. In my pledge class of 18, not a single one of us has spoken to him since graduation. When I took abnormal psych senior year, I looked down the list of characteristics for sociopaths, and he checked almost every single one.
PPS
For all those who are going to follow up with “so stop having casual sex”, I’ve done as much as possible in that regard. I never approach a girl at a bar with the intention of trying to take her home anymore. I always go for getting the number to ask them out. However, as we’re flirting, the girl sometimes gets physical, and if I’ve been drinking my nether regions start to take over. It just happens. Plus, I like sex in general, and when I’ve been drinking my mind doesn’t stop and say “hey, this is likely to be really awful sex, so let’s walk away”.
And rejoinder to those who will say “stop going to bars”. It’s where I socialize with my friends, which I like doing. Plus, it’s where the single women are. All types of single women (not just the casual sex crowd). So I go where the targets are.
PPPS
I love women. I love their smiles, I love the way they laugh, I love that they’re compassionate, I love that they’re nicer than I am. Essentially, I love them for being most things that men aren’t. But I don’t get to see that part of them anymore. I get to see “fuck me harder” or “should I text him back at 2 AM?” or “you’re such a jerk! haha”. In the moment, it’s fun, but there’s nothing after. I want to see more of the former aspects, and less of the latter.
At first, I relished winning each battle (and they truly are battles). I loved the thrill of victory, getting her into bed, getting another notch on the post. But after enough wins, the victories are completely hollow to me now. I honestly have gotten to the point where I could care less about having sex. That doesn’t stop me from doing it, because I still have a penis hard-wired to want it, but the next morning I feel no rush of victory, no sense of achievement. It’s hollow. And usually, it’s shitty.
Oh, you’ve got another year or two before the true ennui hits. When you get to the point where you tell a pretty girl not to bother coming over because her twin sister is busy and can’t make it too, then you are officially jaded. I ended up swearing off women and alcohol, shaving my head clean, and training full contact martial arts seven days a week for a while. It was a sort of physical palate cleansing.
It worked, although Christianity and marriage ultimately worked better in the end. I would encourage you to keep looking and to keep both your eyes and your mind open. Eventually you will find what you are searching for.
@Zach
You know, I was thinking of you (and Jason) when I wrote this post, because I’m fond of both of you personally and do not believe you are psychopathic in any way. What you’re describing is the fallout from the environmental piece, and yes, bad, meaningless sex is pathological, no doubt about it.
I described above how some orgasms can leave you feeling really crummy.
I don’t know what to suggest, really. We’ve discussed the reset option before and I’m very clear on why that is not going to happen. The best case scenario is that you find someone you like a lot very soon. Fingers crossed for this new girl. Just remember, if you can’t let the mask slip at all, even half a dozen dates in, she’s not LTR material. Too high maintenance.
Another request for femininity. Girls, are you listening?
Susan, wow… what a story! If I tell that to my husband he’s probably going to take his gun everywhere with him.
Bastiat Blogger, have you watched Cowboys and Aliens with Daniel Craig? Very interesting / different take on the dangerous male archetype. He actually sort of gets domesticated. Don’t want to give away spoilers though.
SW, Esco, Jackie, et al–
These close call stories are stunningly frightening. I have chills.
I want to see more of the former aspects, and less of the latter.
For me, the ultimate test was a woman’s ability to be in the same room with me and be content in silent company for an hour or two. If she can’t do that, then she’s not a true companion. I can’t say my marriage is perfect or ideal, but I can say that it is generally idyllic and she is an excellent companion.
If you’re the entertainment, you will never be able to stop performing.
@Zach
Zach, usually I respond to your comments with, well, giving you a bit of a hard time.
In this case, all I have to say is that I am moved with compassion and hope that you find someone to truly love and to let yourself be loved–letting the mask drop forever– in return. I hope Date4 girl is it! 
If it doesn’t offend you, I would be glad to pray for your peace of heart and mind. Otherwise, please accept my best wishes. Hang in there, Zach.
“I love women. I love their smiles, I love the way they laugh, I love that they’re compassionate, I love that they’re nicer than I am. Essentially, I love them for being most things that men aren’t. But I don’t get to see that part of them anymore. I get to see “fuck me harder” or “should I text him back at 2 AM?” or “you’re such a jerk! haha”. In the moment, it’s fun, but there’s nothing after. I want to see more of the former aspects, and less of the latter.”
“and it’s just so risky to open up in any way to a woman, especially the good-looking ones. I’m not going to lie, I will only date a girl I’m very attracted to. I’ve found in my experience the better looking the woman, the less room for letting slip the “mask of game”. One moment of vulnerability that comes to early can sink you forever. So tempered by this experience, I find it very, very hard to EVER let it slip. I desperately want a girl with whom I can let it slip.”
This. Right here. EXACTLY how I feel.
Zach at 151 – You and I feel pretty much exactly the same in terms of the desire to truly be ourselves with our SO’s. And yes, like you I agree that it is just about impossible to fully achieve. Unlike you, I simply avoided casual sex because I knew it would most often be as you described your last weekend to turn out: empty and terrible.
VD – “For me, the ultimate test was a woman’s ability to be in the same room with me and be content in silent company for an hour or two. If she can’t do that, then she’s not a true companion. I can’t say my marriage is perfect or ideal, but I can say that it is generally idyllic and she is an excellent companion.”
Cosigned. Lack of companionship is a deal breaker for me now. In the past I never really considered it, but my ex-wife taught me the value of being with a woman that simply likes my company without the need to provide her with entertainment.
these threads occasionally remind me of how good I have it
these threads occasionally remind me of how good I have it
LOL. I hear that. The ‘sphere makes me appreciate my husband.
I agree with this. Comfortable silence is essential, and so is the ability to keep oneself occupied or amused. In fact, when I visit my father his gf reads tidbits aloud from the paper – the exact section I just read or am going to read next. I want to just bop her over the ahead and shout, “Quiet, woman!”
“these threads occasionally remind me of how good I have it
LOL. I hear that. The ‘sphere makes me appreciate my husband.”
I have a love/hate relationship with the ‘sphere. It often makes me VERY glad I found my wife, but at the same time it often instills doubt where there wasn’t and shouldn’t be any. NAWALT aside, its damn hard to read some of the stuff men go through and NOT wonder if I married the enemy.
You can add me too to the group of guys that are disgusted with how successful ‘game’ is in manipulating women. I now understand why beautiful women are disgusted with men who are entranced by their beauty: it’s pathetic that they can’t control their emotional brain. Which is funny, is ‘game’ men’s way of shit-testing women?
I mean, I’m looking for a women who: 1.) I find attractive (which is athletic in my case), 2.) I can respect and admire, and 3.) loves herself. So hard to find all three!
At present, I’m sort of exploring whether it’s reasonable to not use game to pick-up women, but only use it within the context of dating/relationships to build attractive, a la Athol Kay. It’s hard though because game becomes habitual and I haven’t really had many opportunities with relationship-quality women thus far, so I have no conclusions yet.
Mr. Nervous Toes – “At present, I’m sort of exploring whether it’s reasonable to not use game to pick-up women, but only use it within the context of dating/relationships to build attractive, a la Athol Kay. It’s hard though because game becomes habitual and I haven’t really had many opportunities with relationship-quality women thus far, so I have no conclusions yet.”
Well my only experience with game is from Athol and used within the confines of a LTR, now marriage. So far, my experiments have been mostly successful in terms of relationship happiness. Now, I’ve largely skipped all the more “dark” game tactics for moral and obvious reasons. (I’ve already GOT her, I don’t need to use dark triad to pick her up. LOL) but I’ve put most of what Athol prescribes into play to some extent, and IMO it works. I’m sure to what extent it works varies from woman to woman, but my wife responds positively to most of the stuff I’ve tried.
Keep in mind though: we were never unhappy together. So, unlike most of Athol’s target audience, I didn’t start behind the 8 ball needing to dig myself out of an attraction deficit.
In terms of it all becoming habitual, I don’t know. To be honest, most of the stuff I stuck with from Athol were things I found natural, but was purposely downplaying in my relationships before. So, I’m not doing anything “new” so much as trying to just be more at ease and liberal with how I interact with my wife. Yes, I spent a LOT of time purposely downplaying/suppressing many of my natural tendencies because I thought that was what I was supposed to do when I got married. I have no problems playfully swatting my wife on the ass when I pass her in the kitchen, but I would never have considered it proper behavior in my last marriage. After all, such behavior was labelled sexist and piggish when I was growing up. Imagine my surprise when I found out my wife actually likes it…
I missed the dealers too. I have met some kids who I later learned were dealing. They’re everywhere.
I was right in all but one rapist but the arson ones were the hardest. I wonder way…I got a 60% BTW
These close call stories are stunningly frightening. I have chills.
I didn’t slept well last night…like reading Poe’s tales all over again.
“I missed the dealers too. I have met some kids who I later learned were dealing. They’re everywhere.”
I can certainly spot the more average drug dealers, but living around an area so rife with illegal drugs I’ve learned that the ones I can easily spot ARE NOT the actual dealers, but more often than not the low end mules. Dealers come in all shapes and sizes.
“That’s why my wife’s first Christmas present after we were married came in 9mm. A few years later, she cracked me up when she came home one night and said that on the way home a man had seen her, tried to cut her off, and then stopped at a red light in front of her, got out of the car and started to approach her. She was just trying to decide whether to run over him with her Suburban or shoot him with her laser-sighted Glock when he abruptly turned around, got back in his car, and drove off. My theory is that he noticed the little NRA shield on the front bumper.”
Precisely why college co-eds need to start packin’ if rape and sexual assault is an issue on campus.
The effect will be two-fold; actual rapists will get gunned down (always a good thing), and potential false rape accusations can be avoided as young men will be extra cautious about “escalating”, particularly when alcohol is involved.
@Susan, “First, I know personally of three cases of women having drunken sex and then claiming rape the next day, all false.”
Legally one cannot give consent when drunk, so legally that would be rape. If the objection be raised, “neither can the man give consent when drunk” I say if he’s so drunk as to not be able to get it up in the first place, which happens in cases of inebriation, then there is no question of having any sort of sex at all to begin with.
“I also have heard stories second hand on numerous occasions. It happens, there’s no question. ”
Oh I’m sure it does happen. But not to the extent the Manosphere says it does. I’m also sure some of these “false allegation” are actually true. Of course the parents and family friends of the perpetrator will think it couldn’t possibly be true because “Johnny was always such a polite kid who wouldn’t hurt a fly”.
My point is, WHY have colleges implemented boards and committees to deal with sexual assault instead of encouraging all alleged victims of such to go straight to the police and proper legal channels?
Sexual assualt is a CRIME that needs to be dealt with through the law, if not at the point of a gun.
If female students carry concealed weapons they can deal with it in the moment and put the mofo outta bizniz foreva. If on the other hand they go STRAIGHT to police and legal authorities, they can deal with it through our justice system.
In either case there is absolutely no need for “campus committees” to get involved. They do nothing more than trivialize rape with “suspensions”.
Like I said, guns and legal channels will prevent BOTH actual rapes from taking place AND false accusations. Its a win/win.
These campus committees are a lose/lose.
Zach. This is what I’d say to you if no women were around: love requires that vulnerability, and dropping those shields. I have no problem with casual sex, but even I can see that too much of it is bad for you, like sexual junk food.
But since women are here, I have to moderate my language: you’re halfway on your way to being ultimate woman’s fantasy… the reformed player! WTG!
@ Zach
HERE HERE!
I couldn’t have said it better myself.
My experience matches yours but without the bar hopping and ONS.. but the few casual FWB’s I’ve had, the sex was just meh at best and it was more like a way to kill time then anything else. The fuck buddys I’ve had fell super hard and always ended up with me being the asshole that just wanted sex….duh? (especially when the woman put herself in casual zone…derp)
Pretty much the older I get the more I think about throwing in the towel… the crap seems to be never ending. In fact as I’ve become older I find myself to be even less social, especially after the whole red pill discovery.
I don’t know exactly how to describe it but I would say it’s like the first Christmas after realizing that Santa isn’t real when you’re a kid… Yeah sure, it’s still fun and presents are nice to get and the family time is nice, but it sure isn’t magical anymore.
@Zach
I might be wrong on this but the fact that you filled like four posts to talk about this might mean that you need to reevaluate your life a lot deeper than you think. Re-read what you wrote I’m sure what you said there has the answer to your doubts. Sometimes we need to hear/read things out loud before the answer sink in, just my two cents.
Sync-town. Just a few days ago I watched about 4 documentaries on Manson, and read several blogs.
There are a lot of theories surrounding that case. Suffice it to say that everyone who was killed by that crew was personally known by the Manson Family and was part of the Hollywood underworld of drugs and possibly porn, including doe eyed Tate and the La Biancas.
Plain Jane – “Legally one cannot give consent when drunk, so legally that would be rape.”
And this is precisely where I call BS. If a woman doesn’t want to “give consent” while too drunk to be logical, perhaps she should simply NOT get that damned drunk in mixed company? It is FAR too easy to put the blame on the man, who is probably also drunk, when in fact her decisions to drink in a place where she is likely to meet and sex up a stranger is HER decision alone.
OTC – “Zach. This is what I’d say to you if no women were around: love requires that vulnerability, and dropping those shields. I have no problem with casual sex, but even I can see that too much of it is bad for you, like sexual junk food.
But since women are here, I have to moderate my language: you’re halfway on your way to being ultimate woman’s fantasy… the reformed player! WTG!”
ROFL. Absolutely spot on, and so very true on all counts. We simply can’t let women know we have an emotional center, because it will make us unattractive. Totally screwed up society we live in…
That’s some pretty shaky logic there. The fact that a guy can get it up does NOT mean he’s sober. He could be in a coma, for heaven’s sake.
Women are encouraged to go to the police. I’ve never heard of a school suggesting women wait until Monday morning and call the Dean of Students. The school gets involved when women complain to the school and demand that the boy be expelled or disciplined by the institution, separate from criminal court.
Guns on campus. Great idea.
“Legally one cannot give consent when drunk, so legally that would be rape.”
Thus
Therefore
Then
All casual sex is rape
Spring Break rape
Vacation rape
Night on the town rape
Dorm rape
Its what I wanted rape
Empowerment rape
Expression rape
Embraced rape
Exploration rape
Discovering boundaries rape
Mal parented rape
Career comes first rape
?
Sober casual sex is rare. Thus casual sex is rape.
But so what? Nobody cares
@Ana
My life? I’m unhappy with my love life. That requires a re-evaluation of my love life. If I was unhappy with my job you wouldn’t tell me to re-evaluate my exercise regimen would you?
@ Susan, ”Women are encouraged to go to the police. I’ve never heard of a school suggesting women wait until Monday morning and call the Dean of Students. The school gets involved when women complain to the school and demand that the boy be expelled or disciplined by the institution, separate from criminal court. ”
“In a June 2010 article dealing with matters at Reed College, two experts in how colleges handle sexual assaults criticized the system used at Reed, a highly secretive process based on a student Honor Code and enforced by a student Judicial Board.
Though the board’s disciplinary recommendations are reviewed and implemented by Reed College President Colin Diver, the college does not investigate allegations of sexual misconduct with a trained investigator. Instead, students act as a fact-finding committee, holding hearings that often place victims and perpetrators in the same room. Many students are unaware that an alternative, faculty committee exists. Participants are barred from discussing their cases with anyone except a designated advocate, a procedural aide and medical professionals.
Three students interviewed last year said the forced silence cut them off from friends and faculty they normally would have relied on for support after being assaulted. One reported the process was so secretive she wasn’t sure she could tell her mother about it. And all three were dissatisfied with the outcome of the hearings.
The students also told similar stories of personal and academic upheaval after reporting sexual assault at Reed, which enrolls about 1,400 students. All three said they were discouraged from calling police after reporting sexual assault to authorities and instead were routed to the Judicial Board, where they faced intense pressure to keep quiet about their cases, with related documents stamped “confidential” and constant reminders about confidentiality rules.”
http://www.publicintegrity.org/2011/04/08/3973/portland-college-students-demand-changes-sexual-assault-process
I guess my thought to Zach would be that, to be relationship material, as a man you have to rein in your polygamous instincts, be the better man, and say no to casual sex. In the same respect, I expect a women to rein in her hypergamous instincts if I’m going to consider her to be relationship material. I.e. men have to stop playing the field before they can be in a relationship, women have to stop looking for Mr. Right before they can be in a relationship.
It’s a matter of exercising your rational brain and overpowering your base instincts. That’s what separates the humans from the animals, among homo sapiens.
My life? I’m unhappy with my love life. That requires a re-evaluation of my love life.
That is what I meant. I didn’t added the word love because I though it was obvious. My bad.
Ted,
I think you CAN truly be yourself with some women, but that’s only if you have internalized some aspects of game. If you haven’t internalized it, and have to keep putting up a front, it just isn’t worth it in the long run.
And obviously, the good ones are the ones where you don’t need to always have your game face on. You can at times be vulnerable and she will appreciate you for this.
Gun talk is risky business. Phrases like “…put the mofo outta bizniz foreva…” seem trite. Are you gonna shoot him to death before? That’s illegal. Are you gonna shoot him after? Vigilante much? Illegal too. Gonna whip it out when you are both naked? Highly unlikely. Prolly should stow the ballistics bravado. But what the hell, it’s the internet. Blab away!
@PJ,
“My point is, WHY have colleges implemented boards and committees to deal with sexual assault instead of encouraging all alleged victims of such to go straight to the police and proper legal channels?”
The reason the colleges have boards to deal with these issues is because that way they can discipline the guy without pesky things like trials, lawyers, due process, etc. According to the new Obama administration guidelines, (as Susan pointed out earlier) colleges now need only a 51% probability of wrongdoing to find a guy guilty of rape. Unlike in a court of law where you’re innocent until proven guilty. This way the burden of proof is basically on the guy to prove that he DIDN’T rape her. Which is pretty much impossible. See? You should totally be in favor of the committees. This way the accused have no rights, which it’s pretty obvious that you’re in favor of…
I gotta’ be honest. People like you scare the hell out of me. I have a feeling all it would take for you to be happy to blow my head off would be one woman pointing her finger at me and saying “He got me drunk and had sex with me.”
“Guns on campus. Great idea.”
Gun Control: The idea that a woman found raped and strangled with her pantyhose is somehow morally superior to a woman explaining to police how her attacker wound up with a bullet hole.
Jason773 – “I think you CAN truly be yourself with some women, but that’s only if you have internalized some aspects of game. If you haven’t internalized it, and have to keep putting up a front, it just isn’t worth it in the long run.”
True, but it is a bit of chicken and egg. Internalizing game will actual change a man to some extent, and that change may very well make it so that is weakest emotional vulnerability is no longer AS severe as it was. Not saying that is a bad thing, but pointing out that one cannot internalize any new concept without it changing something about themselves.
This really is a huge problem, and requires such delicate balance that even the most seasoned player (non-psychopathic) can easily slip up. It kind of sucks to say, but it’s almost as if you have to break these women down psychologically and emotionally before they break you down or they sink you. If you can get to that point then you can open up, but sometimes it isn’t even worth it.
@PlainJane
Hmmm, I’ve had girls go down on me while I was drunk and had difficulty getting it up. Perhaps I should file several police reports? I obviously wasn’t able to give my consent….
To add, “break down” is a harsh word, but I truly mean it. The likes of Zach and I are going after women in the 8+ category as LTR material, and these girls, growing up in a current Western culture like the US, have pretty much been given a free pass to do anything they want with their lives (and most of them take advantage of this). Other girls envy them and befriend them, most guys beta orbit them incessantly, they get free dates, dinners, gifts, favors, etc. thrown at them constantly, and they are barraged every day by compliments.
If you find one that is still grounded, feminine, sincere and loyal, lock her down if you can.
Mr. Nervous Toes, “I guess my thought to Zach would be that, to be relationship material, as a man you have to rein in your polygamous instincts, be the better man, and say no to casual sex. ”
Not really. All he needs to do is find a woman who is into open marriage. Then they both can have their cake and eat it too.
John G, “Are you gonna shoot him to death before? That’s illegal. Are you gonna shoot him after? Vigilante much? Illegal too. Gonna whip it out when you are both naked? ”
None of the above. I would shoot when I said no and he forced his person upon me. Its called “self-defense”. Google it.
Travis, I’ve provided 3 links in this thread that describe the exact opposite of what you are saying taking place. Colleges are encouraging alleged victims not to go to the police and legal channels so that they can prevent any sort of controversy associated with the college name brand.
Justice is NOT being served on these committees to the alleged victims and alleged perpetrators are getting away with suspensions from summer school which they had no intention of attending anyway. Whoop de doo!
Sexual assault is a crime that needs to be investigated to the full extent of the law, not “mediated” between a victim and a perp by his/her “counselor”.
“I gotta’ be honest. People like you scare the hell out of me. I have a feeling all it would take for you to be happy to blow my head off would be one woman pointing her finger at me and saying “He got me drunk and had sex with me.”
Puh-leese. I am so sick of you anti-self-defense types. You would rather see people beaten, raped, even killed than defend rightfully defend themselves.
@ Zach, ” Hmmm, I’ve had girls go down on me while I was drunk and had difficulty getting it up. Perhaps I should file several police reports? I obviously wasn’t able to give my consent….”
You’d be within your legal rights to.
@Jason 185
Maybe I should rephrase. When I refer to the “mask”, I’m not talking about some act I’m putting on that’s not who I am. I’m talking about one side of who I am. I am charming, I am a bit of a dick, I am a pretty good conversationalist. That’s also the side of me I present on dates, because that’s the side that attracts women. The side of me that can talk extensively about China’s economic problems isn’t the side that gets a girl to agree to date 2. My issue is that letting that other side peek out just a second too early is so, so risky. The complaint is that I have to be that first side of me ALL the time, to keep constantly pushing her attraction buttons, and not be able to just relax and either say nothing, or talk about something that’s not pushing her buttons. It’s exhausting and disheartening. I can’t have a fulfilling relationship with a woman based on me teasing her and cracking jokes all day. It’s like that scene in 40 Year-Old Virgin, where Paul Rudd and Seth Rogen are playing “you know how I know you’re gay?” It’s fun, it’s funny, and it’s not a misrepresentation of who they are, but do you think they’d want to sit there playing that game every single time they saw each other? However, that seems like what you have to do in this day and age to get anywhere with women.
FYI, with my ex I was definitely at that point where we could just hang out and not say much. The problem was, I got to the point where there wasn’t much left to say. She wasn’t into a lot of the things I was into, and so while I could talk about econ, work , or whatever, it was generally a one-sided convo.
I have a love/hate relationship with the ‘sphere. It often makes me VERY glad I found my wife, but at the same time it often instills doubt where there wasn’t and shouldn’t be any. NAWALT aside, its damn hard to read some of the stuff men go through and NOT wonder if I married the enemy
Don’t let this stuff make you paranoid, Ted. It’s the aggregated bad experiences of many men, not the average relationship between most couples that’s portrayed.
And to follow up on that, the first side leads to casual sex, which I find increasingly awful and unfulfilling. What I mean is that casual sex has turned me into “cocktail party mode” 24/7 around women. I hate that.
Zach, “Maybe I should rephrase. When I refer to the “mask”, I’m not talking about some act I’m putting on that’s not who I am. I’m talking about one side of who I am. I am charming, I am a bit of a dick, I am a pretty good conversationalist. That’s also the side of me I present on dates, because that’s the side that attracts women. The side of me that can talk extensively about China’s economic problems isn’t the side that gets a girl to agree to date 2.”
In other words, you dumb yourself down. Which means you are attracting women who are attracted to dumb men or men who can at least act dumb.
Zach,
I understood what you meant and I’m in complete agreement. Like me, I’m sure you can be a slightly cocky asshole and jerk sometimes, but you aren’t 100% that (maybe 30, 40, 50%, idk). You just need to portray that because who knows at what percentage she loses interest. Like I said, very delicate balance.
Also, re the whole dating scene. It is completely apt to describe it as a war. It’s combat dating. You have no idea the number of times I’ve heard from my friends (guys and girls) “She took two hours to text me back, so I’m going to wait three” or “I’m going to say I can’t make tonight because he canceled on me last time”. It’s tit-for-tat every time, the whole goal being to get the upper hand.
Zach,
Idk, this is where I differ, and why I have friends for these things. I think it’s a telling sign if she isn’t interested at all, but she I don’t need a girl to be all gung-ho with all my interests. I’m probably never going to find a girl who is really interested in sports, psych, weightlifting, nutrition and poker, but the fact that she is genuinely happy to listen to me, watch me and participate sometimes because of my interest is more than enough for me.
And dude, you’re in NYC. That place is a cesspool of terrible, hypergamous, carousel riding women. The men aren’t much better either. You might need to get out of there to find anything good.
“Justice is NOT being served on these committees to the alleged victims and alleged perpetrators are getting away with suspensions from summer school which they had no intention of attending anyway. Whoop de doo!
Sexual assault is a crime that needs to be investigated to the full extent of the law, not “mediated” between a victim and a perp by his/her “counselor”.
Sexual assault IS a crime that is investigated to the full extent of the law. These committees are in ADDITION to the penalties that can result from criminal prosecution. If a woman feels she’s been raped, she’s still free to go to the police. But if she has nothing more than her word, chances are her case isn’t going to go anywhere. Fortunately with these committees, she doesn’t need any evidence.
“Puh-leese. I am so sick of you anti-self-defense types. You would rather see people beaten, raped, even killed than defend rightfully defend themselves.”
Riiiight. Because beating a woman, raping her (I mean actually raping her…), or killing her is the same as the two of you having sex while drunk. And for the record, I’m not against using guns to defend yourself. I own several.
I have no problems with women carrying guns for protection. But the vast majority of them are sane. Therefore, I wouldn’t be worried them blowing my head off for no other reason than I had sex with a girl who had been drinking. That comment was pointed at you specifically. You seem a bit unbalanced.
“Google it” Aw snap! What a comeback! Kind of a broad subject isn’t it? 143 million results? At any rate it’s a very trite answer to a very complex granular situational subject. Some people put rape into the ‘jump out of the bushes and get dragged away’ category. Those rapes are not that common. The rapes that are common are ones that involve someone that is known by the victim or drug/alcohol involvement. If you have been drinking and shoot someone in ‘self-defense’, your story is even shakier so you should reconsider that situation. Are you going to shoot to death someone that you and your family knows and maybe even respects? So in summation, defending yourself with a firearm while in the process of being sexually assaulted is not a good strategy. Guns are great, I love ‘em to death and I believe they have a place in a persons repertoire to protect themselves. Just not that scenario.
You seem a bit unbalanced.
And the HUS award for the understatement of the year goes to…. Travis!
*Applause*
“Are you going to shoot to death someone that you and your family knows and maybe even respects?”
Why not? Surely you are not suggesting that sexual assault is not a crime just because it can be perpetrated by someone you might know or someone your family, for whatever reasons, “respects”?!
” So in summation, defending yourself with a firearm while in the process of being sexually assaulted is not a good strategy. ”
You have failed to explain why its not a good strategy.
“Sexual assault IS a crime that is investigated to the full extent of the law. These committees are in ADDITION to the penalties that can result from criminal prosecution. If a woman feels she’s been raped, she’s still free to go to the police. But if she has nothing more than her word, chances are her case isn’t going to go anywhere. Fortunately with these committees, she doesn’t need any evidence.”
And fortunately for the alleged rapist he is NOT going to jail!!!! What about this do you not get? These alleged rapists are being suspended for a few months from school for gods sake! And that too, summer school, which they have no intention of attending in the first place.
You are trying to make it seem that without evidence these men are being sent to jail. This is NOT the case!
And again, back to the drunk thing. Are you not aware that according to our laws it is illegal to have sex with a drunk person because legally they cannot consent?
If the law is such does it not behoove you to avoid sexually touching drunk women and refrain entirely from attempting sex with them – FOR YOUR OWN LEGAL PROTECTION?
What about any of the above is hard to understand?
@Jason
Yeah, NYC is probably more that way than anywhere else. BUT the women are a lot hotter. I’ll take the trade off.
Re: my ex, it wasn’t that we didn’t have enough shared interests. It that she didn’t really seem to be that interested in anything. She was interested in looking good (worked out a ton, clothes, etc), a couple of reality tv shows, and partying. I need a woman who has at least some intellectual interests. For instance, if she was deeply invested in Modern art, I would’ve been completely down with that. Not my cup of tea, but it’s something we could have had long, intelligent discussions about. I need someone who will stimulate my mind, not necessarily replicate it. She just didn’t do that enough.
@Plain Jane
You keep citing Reed College, which is surprising, because they’re about as liberal as Antioch was. Anyway, what else ya got? That’s just one school.
@PlainJane
I’m perfectly aware of what the law says on inebriation and consent. I just believe it’s a really, really stupid law. Prohibition was the law of the land in the 1920s. Doesn’t mean it was right or popular.
And if you take it the other way, I’ve never had sex with a drunk woman when I myself was sober. So in that sense, we raped each other. Should we both go to jail? It’s a far, far more nuanced subject than the black and white you’re trying to make it out to be.
@John G
Exactly, Plain Jane just tries to stir the pot.
Gosh, I never said it wasn’t a crime if someone you know rapes you. Of course it is and the State can go hammer and tong against that person. As to why a firearm is not a good defense against rape is that in order to be there for you, it has to be on your person, not in your purse or nightstand, on your person all day and night regardless of what you’re wearing, and where you’re at. You would find that exceptionally difficult to do. For everyone interested here is a website I recommend. See, I did the googling for y’all.
http://www.nononsenseselfdefense.com/
“Exactly, Plain Jane just tries to stir the pot.”
I’m not trying to stir the pot in this instance, Susan. I believe in the right to carry arms and defend oneself against violence. I also truly believe that if concealed carry was not uncommon amongst women, there would be less assaults and less false assault accusations as well.
Everyone would be much, much more cautious, and that goes for BOTH men and women.
@Plain Jane
Rein it in or I’m going to put you in mod.
Having a gun is a huge responsibility. It is not something you take out casually and use to threaten. If I take my gun out and point it at anyone, it would be a really big deal. I would have to absolutely be certain that I am, or someone in my family is, in immediate danger.
Travis, I don’t trust headcases with guns either.
“You keep citing Reed College, which is surprising, because they’re about as liberal as Antioch was. Anyway, what else ya got? That’s just one school.”
Susan, on page 1 of this thread I give 2 other links. Both are from the same website which has several examples of this new trend on college campuses nationwide of dealing internally with cases of sexual assault, so as to avoid controversy and the sullying of the school’s brand name. I do not agree with that. I believe a sexual assault victim should go directly to the police and through legal channels as soon as he or she can, and not involve their school staff or committees in any way whatsoever.
Crimes need to be dealt with through trained legal professionals. Not artsy fartsy college types who want to “mediate” and “deflect”.
John G, “As to why a firearm is not a good defense against rape is that in order to be there for you, it has to be on your person, not in your purse or nightstand, on your person all day and night regardless of what you’re wearing, and where you’re at. ”
Agreed. That’s called “concealed carry”. Again, if more women carried concealed and used it to protect themselves against assault, we’d see less assault and less false accusations of assault.
For the life of me I can’t fathom why anyone would have an issue with this.
And for the record, one does not have to aim to kill. One can just aim to demobilize, such as shoot in the foot, and then call the police.
Zach, “I’m perfectly aware of what the law says on inebriation and consent. I just believe it’s a really, really stupid law.”
The law does not care what your personal opinions on it are. The bottom line for every male accused of “false rape” in the case of sex with a drunk woman is that the law says it indeed was “rape”. Now if knowing this men are still stupid enough to go ahead and try to sexually escalate with drunk women, what can be said about those men?
@susan
“OK, I have an eerie story for you. Not as creepy as yours, but I can tell you it freaked me out as a kid.”
Not as creepy? Are you kidding?!!!
@Zach
Here’s the thing. You’re advertising for the (incredibly hypergamous) girls you’re getting. Perhaps you’re fishing with the wrong bait. It might be an interesting experiment to be more laid back and see what happens. I wouldn’t go so far as to introduce the Chinese economy as a topic. (When I was 11 my father sat me down for a “talk.” He said, “It’s time you knew about the Federal Reserve.”)
In a way, it seems more alpha to me to stop delivering more dominance than you actually feel – the women are controlling the script. Even though you approach and ask them out, there’s a reverse sort of incongruence here. IDK, I’m just thinking aloud.
If you were to be yourself in social situations the way you are with people you don’t plan to have sex with (and that is clearly still pretty damned alpha) I wonder if you might connect with someone who tends to be less sexually aggressive and likes to take things a little more slowly. Someone more down to earth.
I know very attractive women like the ones you and Jason describe, but I also know some who do go for a less alpha approach, and they take the sex more slowly, tend to have LTRs of at least a year, etc.
What do you think?
@Zach
It’s true, the whole scene is guided by the Principle of Least Interest. Which is fake in itself. Everyone pretending not to care. It’s so dysfunctional and upside down. That’s the problem with guys running aloof Game. The women act aloof right back. Or maybe the women are bitchy so the guys have to be assholes? Chicken or egg.
Best comment by Plain Jane ever.
Zach, you have to dumb down yourself to get a date with women. Similarly many women complain they have to dumb down themselves to get a date with men. You call it showing another side of your personality, but is it the side you most prefer? Is it the side you live in for the bulk of your day? If not, its a form of false advertisement and ultimately a strain on your being.
Same goes for Sassy or other women who have to “practice” being more girly or whatever so as not to put men off.
Lets say both you and Sassy practice doing this with particular people, they date you and the dating transitions into a relationship. How long will you or Sassy be able to present only that side of yourself? Meaning the side of yourselves that do not comprise the bulk of your personality?
How about we all just act naturally, and those of us who are acting naturally will attract others who are acting naturally?
I would like to take a moment to point out that Zach is a man who clearly requires a very intelligent woman.
+1 for smart girls.
Well, we were blissfully ignorant at least. Those other women were in the car with a serial killer and he was getting aroused in their presence!
Was this the thead discussing James Bond as Dark Triad personified? I’ve only watched one Bond film but am familiar with the general character line and he’s a good guy who fights bad guys, so how is that dark triad?
Casual sex? Women are up for it too, its not like his character promises the moon to women who want to marry him, then skips town. People who are open and honest about wanting short term flings and casual sex are not bad. Its the deceivers who promise more who are bad.
I see some men are confused by women who are benevolent towards men who want just short term flings or even shorter casual sex like one night stands. What these men don’t understand is that many women are also into short term and ALL women appreciate honesty. There’s no need to be jealous of or confused by Bond-like men’s popularity with women.
Honesty is always the best policy and you might be pleasantly surprised by the amount of women who are into short term too!
PS: Idris Elba needs to be the next James Bond. He’d go down as the sexiest. That’s hella sure.
There was a time when I believed that men had a responsibility to protect women against psychopaths. But not anymore.
I have seen too many women manipulate and take advantage of men. I have seen too many women ignore nice guys and go after the players in the hope that they could change them. I have seen too many of those scorned women turn into man-hating bitches who put down normal guys and then, once again, fall for the players.
I don’t mean to suggest that he is a psychopath, but look at Bill Clinton. He humiliated his wife by having an affair, and not one feminist criticized him. But those same women then demand that regular guys do everything for them. Just look at how both National Conventions pander to women!
Just look at this article from the NY Times:
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/25/opinion/men-who-needs-them.html
According to that article, all men are useless except for those who are “entertaining” (e.g. psychopaths and players). So if men are so “useless,” then I guess women don’t need them to care for their safety. YOYO
@ VD
“You don’t know what you’re talking about. Sociopaths feel no shame. They can’t be humiliated. You can catch them in the most absurd lie, and they will shrug it off with a smile and a complete absence of remorse.’
On the contrary, I know exactly what I’m talking about. The tendency towards being a psychopath is probably inborn, but it is actualized by how they are treated as babies and children.
They are humiliated and shamed until they develop a psychopathic self to cover their feelings of humiliation. Grandiosity on top, shame and humiliation underneath. The feelings shame and humiliation are buried so deeply these people cannot be treated.
All psychopaths (e.g. serial killers) have been horribly abused as children.
One of the most embarrassing things about the Manosphere is the ignorance of evil, which they pretend is good. Witness the nonsense about idealizing the “Alpha,” which the Lost Boys of the Manosphere can’t even define as either good or bad.
@VD
“For me, the ultimate test was a woman’s ability to be in the same room with me and be content in silent company for an hour or two. If she can’t do that, then she’s not a true companion. I can’t say my marriage is perfect or ideal, but I can say that it is generally idyllic and she is an excellent companion.”
I’ll nod my head to this as well.
@Ted
“I have a love/hate relationship with the ‘sphere. It often makes me VERY glad I found my wife, but at the same time it often instills doubt where there wasn’t and shouldn’t be any. NAWALT aside, its damn hard to read some of the stuff men go through and NOT wonder if I married the enemy.”
I understand this feeling exactly. I don’t really care about the enemy bit so much. Enemies are easy and I’ve accumulated enough of to be used to it.
I do fear betrayal.
@Zach #151
Amen and Amen.
The worst, the very worst, is that you become a salesman. You know you must be honest in these interactions. You know there’s a can of lines to convey this. And that can lines has only one label on it.
Spin.
How the fuck are you gonna spin this to her.
Everytime you sell yourself, you become a little bit cheaper. And everytime you’re bought you become less of a rarity.
Sad really.
@Plain Jane.
The woman in this clip reminded me so much of you.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2yLiGbJLWi8
On the contrary, I know exactly what I’m talking about. The tendency towards being a psychopath is probably inborn, but it is actualized by how they are treated as babies and children.
No, you don’t. You quite clearly haven’t even read Hare.
All psychopaths (e.g. serial killers) have been horribly abused as children.
And here you prove you know nothing. The vast majority of psychopaths have not been abused in any way. The statistics prohibit that possibility. People are born psychopathic. Go read the literature before you continue spouting off in obvious ignorance. You’re quite clearly just trying to attack Alphas as psychopaths, which suggests you are a BETA: Gamma.
Guns on campus. Great idea.
They’re already there, Susan. I am entirely confident you understand that despite being illegal, there are also drugs on campus. I doubt you will be shocked by the news that students under 21 have also been known to drink alcohol on occasion. That being said, Plain Jane is incorrect and legal campus carry won’t change the rape statistics at all, because so little so-called rape on campus is actual forcible rape.
I’ve probably taken more women shooting than anyone here – by the way, women LOVE being taught how to shoot, they often respond in an overtly sexual manner to firing a gun – and I encourage women to carry, but it is simply not realistic to imagine that campus carry will reduce campus rape. Among other things, it is not legal to be drunk and carry, so no student who cares enough about the law to not carry illegally now is going to carry in any situation where they expect to be drinking.
Ok, the States are not my home country, so I am hardly the one to judge, but I can agree on one thing with PJ – dura lex sed lex.
“Law is harsh – but it is the law” (even if it’s stupid)
If you don’t like the law – and prohibition of sex while under influence of common alcohol is REALLY stupid, glad we don’t have it around here – you should change the law. Not violate it and hope it gets better by itself.
Now, not that this is something new – during the USSR period we had a law that made gay sex a criminal offense (for both men involved – and yes, I believe it only covered gay sex, not lesbian sex – but I might be mistaken). But in the later years of USSR courts stopped prosecuting people for homosexuality, because social pressure to remove it was already very intense – but the law itself was still in the books. In the words of one of our greatest actresses Faina Ranevskay “I pity the land where a man can’t fully decide for himself what to do with his asshole”
But still: if the current wording of sex. assault law is stupid and invites its misuse in the hands of people driven by malice – that this is a pretty fucking big deal and get people rising up to change it.
But it does not give one a right to violate it.
P.S.
The common joke we pass around with my colleagues is that people should be demanded to pass an exam that would culminate in receiving a “Genitalia ownership license”. It seems that a misplaced dick or vagina can do as much damage as a recklessly driven car – yet you are just given one at birth and sent into the big wide world to do as you please.
@ VD
“And here you prove you know nothing. The vast majority of psychopaths have not been abused in any way.”
Completely clueless.
All psychopaths have been abused. You might want to try serial killer FBI profilers like John Douglas, or psychiatrists like James Gilligan’s 35 years of research on murderers. All agree on the humiliation and shame covered up by grandiosity and a lack of conscience.
Ignorance is bliss, eh, VD? Another Lost Boy of the Manosphere. There are a lot of you.
re: false rape
I didn’t know it was so bad! Why didn’t anybody tell me it was so bad?!
…there were sites, I could have looked. Now I know and knowing is half the battle. This is about as scary as Ted Bundy, only in a different way.
@David Collard
I am not one of those who complained about how he treated girls or anybody else.)
“I know that my level of empathy varies a lot depending on the situation and the type of person I might empathise with it.”
One lady at the place I used to work lost her husband in Afghanistan. Somebody set up a fund for the family and I’ll still make a donation from time to time… but if somebody who can afford gold teeth is asking me for change I’m going to make up a lame excuse.
(I liked Moore better than Craig… but I liked Connery most of all.
@Abbot
“Like Napoleon and Hitler marching into Russia, they are refusing to retreat from these blatantly failing and humiliating campaigns that only serve to undermine all prior gains.”
That means the feminists are going to get theirs in a big way at some point and I’m getting the &@#% out of the way. Russians can be scary when they’re mad.
@Anacaona
“Some people are not fully human, in the sense that all the things the superior brain does that makes us try to be decent to each other and helped create civilization (empathy, compassion, sense of justice…) are just not there, are there but can’t connect/command the reptilian brain or are so thin that the connection is meaningless, intermittent or so fragile that some events might severe them forever, like a traumatic childhood.”
(Or a crazy lab accident.) I like this idea.
Have you been to TVTropes? It’s an absolute black hole for your time, but it has so many pages on types of villains, schemes, things that make them snap… Try it when you have a few extra hours and/or extreme self-control.
@Susan
“Sean Connery was the sexiest Bond ever. He’s still sexy:”
I KNEW I WASN’T ALONE~
“Another request for femininity. Girls, are you listening?”
I’ll try… but it’s hard to make me cry unless it involves onions or Oscar Schindler. I wish they put this stuff into bottles (or a book) or something.
@VD
“For me, the ultimate test was a woman’s ability to be in the same room with me and be content in silent company for an hour or two. If she can’t do that, then she’s not a true companion.”
Books are everyone’s friends
(seriously, that’s a lot of pressure on the guy)
@Zach
I don’t have anything of real value to saw besides “aww…” (They could learn something talking about the Chinese economy, I still don’t get how the government hated Russia and hates Cuba but can’t stay away from China. But if they don’t want to learn from you, you have better things to do than force them.) I hope your love life gets better.
@Benton
I hope you would protect your mother (unless she was a crappy parent), but you don’t owe the sort of women often discussed here anything. They’d just be hostile and ungrateful.
@Deli
You live/d in the USSR? What was it like? I mean, the books say one thing, and then there are people who say they actually miss it, but I think of gulags and wonder how that could be…
The car thing is funny but true.
@Benton
Fair enough, I can’t disagree with anything you say. It is not any man’s job to protect women against psychopaths. I wrote the post to explain to women that it is their own responsibility. You want a psychopath? Be my guest, but don’t say I didn’t warn you.
Re Bill Clinton, I suspect he would score high on the PPI. He’s definitely a narcissist, though he plays his role expertly, laying on the empathy. In fact, in contemporary America I don’t think it’s possible to get to POTUS without a fair amount of psychopathy. What an indictment.
That article at the NYXs is disgusting.
@VD
Ha! When I wrote that comment I thought, “Vox will call me out on this.” I hear what you’re saying, but I feel extremely uncomfortable with the idea of sanctioning gun use for 18 year olds. As you point out, there is already rampant drug use and binge drinking. I feel certain that homicide rate would skyrocket if students carried guns as a matter of course.
@susan, sai
Connery at his sexiest
http://video.search.yahoo.com/video/play?p=sean+connery+hitting+women&tnr=21&vid=4694107904933919&l=67&turl=http%3A%2F%2Fts4.mm.bing.net%2Fvideos%2Fthumbnail.aspx%3Fq%3D4694107904933919%26id%3Dd942d9562aeb5625d4359569f46a3573%26bid%3DIjZxVmUt%252bFKR7Q%26bn%3DThumb%26url%3Dhttp%253a%252f%252fwww.youtube.com%252fwatch%253fv%253d3FgMLROTqJ0&rurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3D3FgMLROTqJ0&sigr=11ad1d1ne&newfp=1&tit=Barbra+Walters+interviews+Sean+Connery+on+slapping+women
Marellus, I don’t see the connection in that video clip. I can’t relate to any part of it. Its not my culture at all.
VD, ” That being said, Plain Jane is incorrect and legal campus carry won’t change the rape statistics at all, because so little so-called rape on campus is actual forcible rape.”
Sigh. The point is not just being able to whip out a gun in the event of rape. I said that it would make everyone, both male and female, more mindful of their actions.
Another commenter described how a man in road rage got out of his car and approached the car of a woman, then stopped mid-way, turned around and went back to his car. That woman had an NRA sticker on the front of her car which the commenter believes may have been the factor in the man turning around. Just the thought that she may have had a gun deterred him from possibly committing a crime against her.
The most crime takes place in cities with the most stringent gun control laws. Why? Thugs know that law abiding citizens are not packing so that emboldens them to commit crimes willy nilly.
Guns are not the problem. Criminals are. Crimes are deterred when criminals think their own lives might possibly be in danger.
How does this tie into the so-called “grey area” of alleged false accusations on college campuses. If my research is correct (I provided links) then the so-called “false allegations” talked about ad infinitum in the M-sphere are often linked to the consumption of alcohol. Women, sober or drunk, are not packing. On top of that they are officially discouraged by their college staff from pursuing a legal case, going to police etc, in favor of “mediation” by campus committees and counselors.
Male students therefore know that if they attempt sex with a drunk co-ed, they won’t get shot, nor will they even be reported to police. At most they will get “suspended” for a semester, most likely summer school, which they don’t plan on attending anyway. Big freakin’ deal!
Now, if there was a zero tolerance policy – women were encouraged to either carry concealed or go straight to the po-po, do you think college men would increase or decrease their attempts at “escalation” with a fellow female student?
Its a preventative measure more than anything else. One which would decrease both rape and false rape allegations.
@ Ted and Lokland
““I have a love/hate relationship with the ‘sphere. It often makes me VERY glad I found my wife, but at the same time it often instills doubt where there wasn’t and shouldn’t be any. NAWALT aside, its damn hard to read some of the stuff men go through and NOT wonder if I married the enemy.”
I understand this feeling exactly. I don’t really care about the enemy bit so much. Enemies are easy and I’ve accumulated enough of to be used to it.
I do fear betrayal.”
Thirded. Like Dogsquat once said, reading this stuff can put you in a heightened state of readiness. You read a lot of bad stories, and then if you have some negative experiences yourself they all just get compounded several-fold.
But the stories also remind how you have something worth keeping.
I’ve also found myself becoming disgusted with the behavior of some women since starting to implement the red pill. I do not intend to cheat, and they fact that some women try to push that is insulting to me.
@Susan 220
I don’t think flirting is necessarily advertising for hypergamy. In fact, in this day and age, asking out on dates tends to be a pretty big LTR-interest signal. Even my friends who are the most STR oriented and take girls home from bars to f*ck ask girls on dates if they are actually interested in them personality-wise.
Also, yeah I’m sure there are some attractive girls who don’t go the hypergamy route, but they’re few and far between. Even the smart hot girls I know still date the football stars, the shady dbags, and the frat stars.
Also @PlainJane and Susan, no one “acts normally” when dealing with the opposite sex. I don’t flirt with my male friends (I hope you don’t flirt with you female friends). Flirting in and of itself is thus a non “normal” behavior. Also, a lot of my interaction with my guy friends would be classified as “flirting” if directed at a girl. It’s teasing, poking fun at, “you know how I know you’re gay” type of stuff. It’s how most men interact with each other. The difference is that with my guy friends, I know I can turn it off at any time and it’s fine. With girls, I’ve become so hard-wired into not turning it off for risk of losing attraction that it’s almost all I present to them.
And further @Susan. I think it’s a tricky path that you’re outlining. This past weekend, I was out on Long Island at a friend’s house with 30 people. It was about 18 girls, 12 guys. I was intentionally staying celibate because of my interest in 4-date girl (her ex was there, loong story). I thus basically did not flirt with any of them, and treated them like the guys. At the end of the weekend, I’d had to turn down one girl coming after me and I had a second give me her number and tell me to call her when I’m in Seattle next week (unsolicited). So in that case, it worked. However, that situation is very, very rare. It’s an enclosed environment, with no outside actors, everyone’s hanging out with each other all weekend, and can observe how I interact and behave. In most social settings, surrounded by complete strangers, you must be proactive. No girl is going to come over and hang out next to your table at a bar to watch you talk with your friends. So while it can be effective, it’s only for very particular situations.
Secondly, acting as if a girl were just a friend is the VERY best way to get yourself in the friend zone. Just had to say it. That tactic only works on girls who are really used to getting hit on, and only if they’re the only one you’re not hitting on. And re: taking it slow. Also practically a death sentence with most girls. As a guy, it’s a lose-lose proposition to not push for sex. You either get tagged as a wimp, or as not being attracted to her. Meanwhile, it’s win-win to push for sex. It conveys dominance, and attraction. It’s the girl’s job to slow it down, not the guy’s.
@Susan 230
You’d like the song “Smart Girls” by Weezer.
@PlainJane
I honestly think women telling men to “be themselves” was the entire cause of the PUA movement. It’s just about the worst advice ever if you’re looking to meet women, and shows how un-self-aware most women are of what they’re attracted to. No one in dating is ever “themselves” 100%. Everyone puts forward the best part of themselves, not the whole thing, not on date 1 (or 2).
“Now, if there was a zero tolerance policy – women were encouraged to either carry concealed or go straight to the po-po, do you think college men would increase or decrease their attempts at “escalation” with a fellow female student?”
Correction:
“Now, if there was a zero tolerance policy – women were encouraged to either carry concealed or go straight to the po-po, do you think college men would increase or decrease their attempts at “escalation” with a fellow DRUNK female student?”
The drunk part is important since we are discussing what the M-sphere refers to as the “grey area” of campus-based so-called “false allegations”, which they say is blurred by the use of alcohol.
Knowing all of the above, and taking into our laws regarding the issue of consent in an alcohol infused situation, do you think college men would attempt sexual escalation or refrain from doing so, in order to protect their own behinds, both figuratively and literally?
@Zach,
“I honestly think women telling men to “be themselves” was the entire cause of the PUA movement. It’s just about the worst advice ever if you’re looking to meet women, and shows how un-self-aware most women are of what they’re attracted to. No one in dating is ever “themselves” 100%. Everyone puts forward the best part of themselves, not the whole thing, not on date 1 (or 2).”
Putting forth your best self is different from pretending to be who you are not or over-emphasizing a part of your personality that is not a major part, while downplaying the part that is.
I cannot pretend to be interested in things I’m not for very long, even just for the sake of social niceties. I’d rather spend my weekends at home alone then in a group of people who do not share my interests and who I have to be pretend to be interested in what they are.
The world being what it is, there are times that I do have to do this, but I don’t do it for more than say a half hour at most, then I’m outta there.
Part of the reason working in a corporate office is not for me. They are not satisfied that you just show up to do your job 40 hours a week, they want you to socialize with co-workers, attend office parties, etc. They even rate your job performance on that! What the heck?
If Sassy comes off as all girly-girl in order to attract some dude, what’s he gonna do once they start dating regularly and her real personality comes out? Dump her?
Therefore its better to actually be yourself so that people who are attracted to those traits can find you, and they won’t dump you once they get to know the real you, because they already know the real you and like you for it!
(Or a crazy lab accident.) I like this idea.
Have you been to TVTropes? It’s an absolute black hole for your time, but it has so many pages on types of villains, schemes, things that make them snap… Try it when you have a few extra hours and/or extreme self-control.
Once upon a time TVtropes was my HUS, meaning I spent most of the time reading tropes and talking to other posters. I consult it once in a while now but I think I know by heart every type of villain I could use. I really don’t like the whole lab accident it reads antiscience which is cliche and not something I support personally.
@Passer By
I don’t know how I missed that, but I’ve never seen that before. So there you go… sexy psychopath.
@Zach
IDK, people fall in love, even in NYC. It sounds like you’ve got your scene, and you like it. You’ll figure it out, as Vox said.
I just think the “real Zach” is asking for a bit of airtime. You might let him out and see what happens.
I love Weezer. Island in the Sun is one of my favorite songs of all time. That song is the summer of 2002, Martha’s Vineyard. It was one of those bands that both we and our kids loved.
Lokland – “I understand this feeling exactly. I don’t really care about the enemy bit so much. Enemies are easy and I’ve accumulated enough of to be used to it.
I do fear betrayal.”
Yes I agree. It is the betrayal that worries me the most. My ex-wife is not my enemy to this very day, but she did betray me. After it was all said and done, I forgave her for that, but it did not rid me of the scars.
@Passer_By
…er…
This probably qualifies as one of those after-school special “never go by looks alone” moments.
Well, we still have Brosnan.
@Anacaona
“I really don’t like the whole lab accident it reads antiscience which is cliche and not something I support personally.”
I didn’t think of it that way. I usually took it for granted that out of several brainiacs, one snapped and then others would use their science skills to help save the day.
@susan
Eh, he may be a psychopath, but not because of that. His view probably represented the majority view as recently as 100 years ago or even less. Unless everyone then was a psychopath, then I don’t think that makes him one.
@Passer By
And as Barbara Walters took pains to point out, his wife of 31 years had no complaints.
2 Sai
(until 1991 when it was dissolved. There was a failed USSR-restoration coup in 1993, that I actually remember … because instead of the usual cartoons all channels were showing “the Swan Lake” on loop 
Ah, child’s memories) – so most of it I know from my parents, my parents’ friends and of course literature.
I was born in 1985 – so technically I lived in USSR for the first 6 years of my life
After the fall of USSR everybody and their dog started writing memoirs about how it was back than and now you can get opinions of every kind: it was heaven, it was hell, it was the orwellian society, it was the greatest experiment mankind ever experienced – you pick.
Deli, that’s interesting. When I was a kid I watched the Swan Lake on TV, too. But I was living in China. I was still in China when USSR fell, and the mood was sort of… well, they didn’t talk about it much.
@Susan/PlainJane
The part of me that flirts, socializes, etc, is certainly a real enough me. You’d see it plenty if you just saw me with my guy friends. What I’m saying is the part I’m terrified to ever let out is the one where I sit on the couch with my roommate and we debate Dodd-Frank for an hour, or talk about the deeper meaning of the last episode of Boardwalk Empire. Women gobble part A up, part B not so much. No man every picked up a girl by talking to her about how Walter White’s egomania was driven more by his temporary defeat of cancer than by his failure with Gray Matter. The only time that ever works (and it’s rare) is in a group of people who all know each other/are getting introduced to each other, and the topics veer away from small talk. And so if you rely on that, your potential circle of mates is only your friends or friends of friends. That gets pretty limiting.
For example, I’m currently seeing/FWB a girl whose previous bfs (and I know this through mutual friends) were not at all alpha, and were mostly nerdy. However, she eats up the alpha side of me every bit as much as any other girl. The number of times I’ve heard “you’re such a jerk! haha” from her along with a punch on the arm is beyond counting. However, I can still talk with her about other things. Now before you ask why I’m not dating her, it’s because I’m not quite attracted to her enough. She’s cute, and plenty of my friends think she’s quite pretty, but she’s just not my type. Doesn’t do it for me consistently. (I’ve had one friend who repeatedly tells me she’s far too good of a person for me haha). The problem is that having been burned before, as Jason has also said, when introducing deeper aspects of your personality into dating (the girl will lose attraction), it’s very, very difficult anymore to trust that a girl won’t run away if I do. So to be on the safe side, I just never let it slip.
It’s like this: what do you think would get a girl more interested in meeting you?
“Wow, nice Breaking Bad t-shirt. You must really be into bald guys.”
or
“I think the turning point in Walter’s mindset occurred when he let Jesse’s girlfriend die. It wasn’t the act of hurting someone, but it was just far enough over the boundary to start him on his long slide into the abyss.”
Trav: “You seem a bit unbalanced.”
PJ is a radfem troll, who has previously stated here that false rape accusations are a perfectly acceptable strategy in the female toolbox. Actually endorsing overt killing wasn’t too far behind. The mind of a psychopath, indeed.
To finish up, how casual sex led to this:
I used to view getting laid as the be-all and end-all. It was the first, and sometimes only goal. So through years of casual sex (and occasional booty calls), I saw that all my success here came through being my charming, social, witty self. Not from my intellectual, thoughtful, contemplative side. So through the success of that social side, and the failure of the other side, I was conditioned to never, ever let side B slip out with a girl I was interested in. And now that I’ve tired of casual sex, I barely know how to use that other side in talking with women. I’m programmed to be shallow, funny, clever, and charming. And to be completely honest, a lot of it is womens’ fault. If, by and large, so many of them didn’t ruthlessly shoot down any guy who wasn’t constantly on his game with them, it wouldn’t have conditioned me to be so much like this. Game evolved as a response to what women wanted, not to what men wanted. So, women by and large are very responsible for creating the monsters they wished for.
Not all I want to say on this, but enough for tonight. To be continued.
“Sexual assault IS a crime that is investigated to the full extent of the law. These committees are in ADDITION to the penalties that can result from criminal prosecution. ”
Travis, actually, if you read the website I linked to that investigates this kind of stuff, you will see that no, it is no in addition to but rather in place of. Campuses across the country are implementing this and discouraging alleged victims from going to the police and legal authorities and actively pressuring the into dealing with is solely internally through the campus avenues. This is so the schools can save face.
In order for college men to save face, it would be wise for them to avoid drunk women, and certainly under no circumstances escalate sexually with them.
You lose nothing by not having sex with a drunk person, but you can potentially lose everything by doing so.
Guys, the call is your’s.
Zach,
Haha, I get to talk to my wife about Plato or Austen or Churchill or Lincoln or Scorcese whenever I want.
OK, that’s me being a dick, goodnight.
Zach, I get that we behave differently in public than we do in private. I’m not farting, burping or scratching my ass/crotch in public like I do alone at home. I’m also not going out in public in 3 day worn pajamas that I never take off when I’m on my period and taking it easy during my moon, eating whatever I want in the messy manner I want, stains be damned.
However, talking about stuff I’m not really interested in is where I draw the line. I will talk about stuff that interests me and yes those interests have turned off a few men. Good. I got to know that there’s no way I could date them if they didn’t share my interests.
I also won’t act all giggly and fake little girly (childish) just to appear more feminine.
I will however conduct myself in a bathed, scrubbed, decent and cultured manner. That should be enough.
@Susan (at 148)
We’re six degrees of separation from just about ANYONE living in the last 50 years. Often much less.
And with regard to James Bond, it;s worth remembering that the film depiction was changed every time they changed actors. And none of them quite fits the character Ian Fleming created. Fleming’s character was hard-edged, but was far more dumped than the dumper.
“Another request for femininity. Girls, are you listening?”
“I’ll try… but it’s hard to make me cry unless it involves onions or Oscar Schindler. I wish they put this stuff into bottles (or a book) or something.”
See, this right here is what is wrong. Sai, why would you want to fake a personality that isn’t your’s? You are not easily moved to tears, so what? That doesn’t mean you don’t feel.
Sometimes people who are easily moved to public tears are nothing more than emotional vomitters who don’t really feel all that deeply.
@SW
Would these guys qualify?
http://gma.yahoo.com/boston-university-ice-hockey-team-slammed-sexual-entitlement-160942199–abc-news-topstories.html
Careful, they’re right in your own backyard…
@ Megaman
From that article:
Whoulda thought that a bunch of athletes would have casual sex…
lol one of the comments:
Susan at 220: When I was 11 my father sat me down for a “talk.” He said, “It’s time you knew about the Federal Reserve.”
LOL, priceless! (no pun intended) But, when did you learn about the Trilateral Commission?
@ Jackie:
Holy crap!
You scared me too, Jackie!! I’ve never been so creeped out by reading a comment online.
I’m so glad your mentor and her friend got away from him safely!!!
@ SW:
100% co-sign!!
I didn’t think of it that way. I usually took it for granted that out of several brainiacs, one snapped and then others would use their science skills to help save the day.
If you check TV tropes Science is bad http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ScienceIsBad is a lot longer than Science Hero, they don’t even have a Science is good trope! http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ScienceHero. I’ll be damned if I add to the trope more dirt. Sorry for he rant this is one of those tropes that piss me off as I call them.
Thinking about it, I think the only way for a relationship to succeed is if both partners are outcome independent.
Being dependent on outcome makes both partners insecure and controlling and unable to just sit back, relax and enjoy being in a relationship with another human being.
“So, women by and large are very responsible for creating the monsters they wished for.”
Yes they are.
But you were complicit and riding along the whole way, just like the slutty girl who wakes up one day and realizes she doesn’t want that anymore.
Not trying to bash ya, but you can’t just blame other people.
“Not trying to bash ya, but you can’t just blame other people.”
Bingo. Copy and paste this to every sphere-that-shant-be-named blog.
Thinking about it, I think the only way for a relationship to succeed is if both partners are outcome independent. Being dependent on outcome makes both partners insecure and controlling and unable to just sit back, relax and enjoy being in a relationship with another human being.
It’s hard to be completely outcome independent if you care about someone, but I think a relationship thrives when both parties love each other but don’t necessarily need each other. I’d do OK with my husband and he’d do OK without me, but our lives are just so much better together.
“It’s hard to be completely outcome independent if you care about someone, but I think a relationship thrives when both parties love each other but don’t necessarily need each other.”
Yeah. And when you actually have kids together of course there should be outcome dependency for their sake. I was thinking more in terms of unmarried young people dating each other. Suspicion, jealousy and control are all aspects of outcome dependence and are turn offs that can nip a blossoming relationship in the bud.
@ Plain Jane
“Being dependent on outcome makes both partners insecure and controlling and unable to just sit back, relax and enjoy being in a relationship with another human being.”
I would think they would be more likely to not sweat small disagreements and work harder at staying together because it’s they both desire.
Make a room for love and it always comes.
Make a nest for love and it always settles.
Make a home for the beloved and he will find his way there.
~ Marianne Williamson ~
“Legally one cannot give consent when drunk, so legally that would be rape.”
That definition of rape is absolute nonsense and an insult to human intelligence. According to this, it’s possible for two people to simultaneously rape each other. As long as we accept this definition, we’ll remain either idiots or cowards. Nobody should accept that. In fact, one should reject feminist dogma in its entirety.
Moreover, the idea that young men and women should have social permission to get drunk in each other’s company is a relatively new one and frankly idiotic.
@anacaona, INTJ
“…I have no idea what the OP wanted to prove with it to be honest.”
Nothing. It’s just a trick my daughter brought this day and it worked on me (despite I hesitated, thought a bit and then I said “milk” anyway). I was just wondering whether it would work also on anglosphere. It’s strange how easily you can twist people’s minds, isn’t it.
Nothing. It’s just a trick my daughter brought this day and it worked on me (despite I hesitated, thought a bit and then I said “milk” anyway). I was just wondering whether it would work also on anglosphere. It’s strange how easily you can twist people’s minds, isn’t it.
Oh yeah the human brain has a lot of blind spots, this mental tricks are fun if you know when to play it. Did you daughter laughed at you, BTW?
@anacaona
Yes she did. I have raised a viper on my womb…
Completely clueless. All psychopaths have been abused. You might want to try serial killer FBI profilers like John Douglas, or psychiatrists like James Gilligan’s 35 years of research on murderers. All agree on the humiliation and shame covered up by grandiosity and a lack of conscience. Ignorance is bliss, eh, VD? Another Lost Boy of the Manosphere. There are a lot of you.
You’re not merely a poser, Bob, and you’re not merely ignorant. You’re downright stupid. You claim “All agree on the humiliation and shame covered up by grandiosity and a lack of conscience”. And yet, what do we find in the very DEFINITION of psychopathy, the Psychopathy Checklist, Revised (PCL-R) created by psychologist Robert D. Hare?
Glibness/superficial charm
Grandiose sense of self-worth…
Lack of remorse or guilt
Emotionally shallow
Callous/lack of empathy
And Hare based his checklist on Cleckley’s list of attributes from Mask of Sanity. What do we see at #6?
Lack of remorse and shame
You’re an idiot and a fraud, Bob. You observably don’t even know what psychopathy is and yet you are trying to claim it is caused by something which the very people who created the concept have stated is entirely absent in psychopaths. And all psychopaths are not abused. In a 2008 study, 1.2 percent of the population scored at the “potential psychopath” level; that is equivalent to 4 million people in the USA. It should be obvious that not all of them were abused.
I hear what you’re saying, but I feel extremely uncomfortable with the idea of sanctioning gun use for 18 year olds. As you point out, there is already rampant drug use and binge drinking. I feel certain that homicide rate would skyrocket if students carried guns as a matter of course.
I completely understand why you are uncomfortable, but I would call your attention to the actual consequences of the 30+ states that have permitted carry laws in the last 20 years. In precisely the same manner you are certain the homicide rate on campus would skyrocket, the newspaper editorialists have predicted bloodbaths in the streets in every single state where carry laws were being debated. And they were completely wrong every single time. As it happens, the first political article I ever published was in the Minneapolis Star Tribune, back in 1991 or so, on this very subject.
First I quoted all the predictions of bloody consequences if a carry law was passed in Minnesota. Then I quoted all the identical predictions if a carry law was passed in Florida. And then I cited the Florida statistics which showed the precise opposite of those predictions; gun violence has continued to decline there despite the issuing of what is now up to 2,031,106 licenses over the years . Since I know you like statistical studies, here is one from Texas covering 1996 to 2000, right after it enacted its current carry laws:
The average male Texan who is 21 years or older is 7.7 times more likely to be arrested for the violent crimes of murder, rape, robbery, and assault than the average male CHL holder. Looking at violent crimes individually, the average male Texan who is 21 years or older is 1.7 times (rate of 7.4 v. 4.3) more likely to be arrested for murder; 87 times (rate of 24 v. 0.3) more likely to be arrested for rape; 53 times (rate of 44 v. 0.8) more likely to be arrested for robbery; 3.4 times (rate of 202 v. 60) more likely to be arrested for aggravated assault; and 10 times (rate of 892 v. 87) more likely to be arrested for other assaults than the average male CHL holder. No male Texas CHL holder was arrested for negligent manslaughter during the 1996 through 2000 period.
The reason for the distinction between the violence expected and the reduced violence observed is logical. The outlaws and predators are already armed and carrying. They are no more concerned with gun laws than they are with drug laws. All that campus gun bans do is ensure that the law-abiding good guys are unarmed and unable to stop them. It may help to remember that 99 times out of 100, it’s not necessary to actually fire a gun in order to stop trouble, much less shoot anyone. All police officers unholster their guns from time to time in the process of making an arrest or checking out a location, but most of them will go their entire careers without ever firing at anyone.
Also, you’d be amazed at how hard it is for even trained shooters to hit anything from more than three feet away. It’s not like the movies, where the guy with the smallest pistol is dropping bad guys armed with sniper rifles and bazookas with single shots from fifty feet away. A few years back, in the Minneapolis skyway, police fired 41 shots at a bank robber. They didn’t hit him once. I also knew a fairly well-known writer who got into a gunfight in the dark with a home intruder. He emptied most of a 15-round magazine, the intruder emptied his 6-shot revolver. Even though they were in the same room, neither one of them hit the other.
@Zach
Is that a trick question? Shallow slut digs the first.
The second would make me swoon. Funny enough, in the last few days I’ve discussed the Breaking Bad season finale with a group of young women, and one of the things we discussed was Jane’s death. Vince Gilligan talked about three ways they wrote that scene. In the first, Walter injected Jane with more heroin to kill her. Too aggressive. In the second, Walter turned her on her back to increase the likelihood of choking on vomit. Still too aggressive, not conflicted enough. In the third, he watches her choke and doesn’t help. We feel more empathy for Walter this way. You would have enjoyed the convo, I am sure, and the women would have found you very attractive.
I’m not telling you to change your behavior. I’m just hearing you say it’s not working so well. In which case you might want to shift your strategy. But I have no investment in what strategy you choose.
@Zach
I would like to remind you that your technique was perfected in college among the “elite” 10% of promiscuous women. It sounds like you still socialize with that crowd, and to be frank, what you describe is indeed a bit psychopathic. Not even the beta trait of intelligence is allowed to be displayed. That’s wacked.
I think this might be a good time to answer the question you asked at your senior dinner – “Who the hell are these people?”
I guess the same math is at work when we hear that President Obama is a distant cousin of George Washington.
@Megaman
You scooped me, I’m going to write about those Terrible Terriers today.
@Esau
I recall being bored out of my mind, and whining that I wanted to go. My father said “You can go when you have a rudimentary sense of the money supply.”
Now do you believe me that I was raised to follow in my father’s footsteps rather than my mother’s?
Notice how in Plain Jane’s world the drunk women shares NONE of the responsibility for ending up having sex. She CHOSE to go somewhere and get drunk beyond her ability for rational thought, but it is the guy’s fault she willingly (albeit drunkenly) had sex with him. What about the fact that he is probably drunk as well? I do indeed have erection problems with I’m piss drunk, but there is plenty of room between sober and piss drunk where my “tool” works just fine, but my brain isn’t nearly at full capacity. So, does that mean she raped me?! If so, then I say our mutual rapes cancel each other out, and we were both dumb asses for being in that situation in the first place.
But lets face it, her script is EXACTLY what the socialist/feminists/anyists want you to think: women ARE NOT responsible for their own choices and actions, and you can’t make them TAKE responsibility!
regarding the views of The Banana in PyJamas
(http://www.abc.net.au/abcforkids/sites/bananasinpyjamas/)
Anybody believing her BS about rape and FRAs in college should try the Community Of The Wrongly Accused (successor to False Rape Society)
http://www.cotwa.info/
cotwa is not an mra site, it is about justice
for example
@Definite Beta 272
Oh, absolutely I played along completely. I loved it. I’m as much to blame as anyone else. An appropriate analogy: I spent the last 5-6 years playing football, getting good at throwing, catching, etc (my friend the other day called me the Roger Federer of text message tennis). Now I’ve become increasingly aware that long-term football play can cause severe brain injury. I want to stop playing football, but after 6 years, it’s all I know how to do. And to continue the analogy, all of the best athletes are still playing football, and I don’t want to play tennis against 2nd-rate competition. What am I to do?
@Susan 271
Ah, but for that to come into play, I’d have to be in a “book group” that watched Breaking Bad. As I mentioned in my example earlier, that sort of thing can work, but it only works in a controlled environment where everyone is making conversation. Those are few and far between, and not easy to come by. So by relying exclusively on those sorts of environments, I’d be limiting myself to very, very few opportunities to meet a new woman. That’s the issue.
@272
The issue is that it’s not just that “elite” 10% that witty, teasing, charismatic game works on. It’s a far, far larger proportion of women. I knew plenty of girls in college who were extremely intelligent, who could write dissertations on Jane Austen, who often were the most insightful contributors in class, but when they were around guys, they ate up alpha game like skittles. And that held true very, very broadly. Also, I think you’re neglecting attractiveness here. That “elite” 10%, or let’s say the sorority 35% at my school, was by FAR and away the 35% most attractive girls around. So much so that a girl who was hot and was not in a sorority was like a unicorn.
So bottom line, I think what I’m looking for is pretty rare. And in summary, my reaction to Antitype’s comment was equally about how much I’d come to hate casual sex as how much I hated having to be on “game” all the time. I find it hollow and unfulfilling. I want so badly to have a girl where I can let my guard down, where it’s about more than just sex. However, I’m not going to lower my standards in other areas (looks) to achieve that. I’m still a guy, and looks still mean a ton to me. These girls are out there (girl I’m currently seeing being one), it’s just very, very hard to find them. I’m looking for help on doing so.
And just a final question on the girls you refer to: how many of them go to bars pretty regularly? I bet it’s a pretty high percentage. That’s just where the girls are. As I mentioned before, in this day and age looking for single girls and avoiding the bar scene is like hunting for lions but adamantly refusing to go to Africa.
Zach – ” I want so badly to have a girl where I can let my guard down, where it’s about more than just sex. However, I’m not going to lower my standards in other areas (looks) to achieve that. I’m still a guy, and looks still mean a ton to me. These girls are out there (girl I’m currently seeing being one), it’s just very, very hard to find them. I’m looking for help on doing so.”
That right there is the crux of the problem. It is damn hard to find a woman with above standard looks AND something big going on upstairs. I’m not trying to imply that all pretty women are stupid, but lets face it, in our society pretty women are not expected to be smart and few actually step to the challenge. It is human nature to be lazy, and if I was never required to “use my brain” I might be just as clueless as your average Jerry Springer audience member.
I honestly don’t remember what age bracket you are in, but I think it is late 20′s. That is a tough time, especially if you are fresh out of college and/or most of your circle is fresh out or still in. It also depends greatly on where you are. I’m not at all experienced with casual stuff, but I’ve spent my entire life in LTRs since I was 16, and I will tell you this: I have never had a relationship with a woman I met at a bar. I’ve dated many, but they never make it past date 2, or maybe 3 before I realize that the lights are on, but no one is home. Once I get comfortable enough to start talking about the things that actually interest me, they would “glaze over” and mostly check out of the conversation.
Now, every single one of my successful relationships (ones that lasted for years) were started far from any bar or club. For the most part, they were all introduced to me by mutual friends/family in mixed settings. My ex-wife first saw me at a band practice when she came to pickup her brother (who was our new bass player) because his car broke down. My current wife was introduced to me by the wife of a guy I met at work and became friends with. I can go on, but you get the idea.
I don’t know a single person that is with someone they met at a club or bar, although I know plenty that have dated such women. I won’t say that all women going to clubs are vapid and shallow, but the truth is, the ones that can usually be picked up at such venues tend to run that way. And if you were honest with yourself, I would be willing to bet that you already know this. The bar scene is a meat market. You may find a very nice cut of meat on the cheap there, but chances are what you’ll find is substandard goods being sold cheap. You want quality, not quantity. So, stop shopping where the goal is to sell as much as possible. I can’t tell you where the quality places are necessarily, but it isn’t anywhere with loud Unnn Tiss Unnn Tiss is blaring over loudspeakers.
@VD
“You’re an idiot and a fraud, Bob”
Your feelings of humiliation, envy and insecurity are very clear for everyone to see.
Bob, no dog in your fight, but I have done a little reading on this, and VD’s take is consistent with I have read. Yours, put simply, is not.
@ szopen
It’s a cool trick. I walked straight into it.
@VD
Do you have any concerns about putting loaded guns in the hands of very drunk young men? Imagine all those drunken fistfights with firearms in the mix.
This is from Susan’s neck of the woods.
http://gma.yahoo.com/boston-university-ice-hockey-team-slammed-sexual-entitlement-160942199–abc-news-topstories.html
“But the task force found that the team’s “elevated social status” on campus led to “frequent sexual encounters with women absent an emotional relationship or ongoing commitment.”"
@ Zach
I was going to make a snide remark about lions in India, but then I remembered that they’re barely hanging on from going extinct, which kinda demonstrates your point…
@Zach
The girls I had this convo with do go to bars. Also, they were all in sororities in college. My point is, they actually would be much more attracted to a guy who tossed out some intelligent remark about Breaking Bad than a guy who negged them re bald guys. These women are smart, definitely could write about Austen, and appreciate alpha traits in men. But their need for dominance is not over the top – they don’t LJBF guys they were initially attracted to for showing their true personalities. In fact, one of them recently had a guy over for a glass of wine before a date, and he expressed interest in a book she had on her shelf (Black Swan, she’s in finance). He borrowed it, then they discussed it at some length.
Really great catches are out there, though they’re not common. Are you a great catch? (Don’t answer that.)
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