Corey Trivino Falls
Boston University’s hockey sex scandal has put the spotlight on the predatory habits of college athletes. False rape accusations against Duke lacrosse players notwithstanding, there is an attitude of sexual entitlement among college athletes that views consent as optional. The scandal came to light this past February when the school announced it would investigate its hockey team, which confers the highest social status on its members.
The Boston University men’s ice hockey team has policies to keep players out of trouble off the ice: Captains are mandated to keep teammates in line; players are allowed to drink only one night a week during the season; and this year the team cosponsored a statewide campaign to prevent assaults on women.
…On Tuesday, junior Max Nicastro pleaded not guilty to two counts of rape in an incident that allegedly occurred on campus Sunday, just hours after a game. In December, senior Corey Trivino, pleaded not guilty to charges of sexual assault after he was accused of repeatedly barging into a resident adviser’s room, trying to grope her, and refusing to leave.
…The BU student newspaper regularly reports on apparent episodes of heavy drinking and bad behavior among hockey players, and Trivino and another team member recently made a profane YouTube video about women.
In an interview earlier this week with the Globe, BU hockey coach Jack Parker said that if his team’s culture was found wanting, he would work to change it, a sentiment Brown praised in a letter yesterday to the campus community.
But Parker expressed a seemingly different view in an interview yesterday.
“You can’t change the culture that’s evolved here; we’re not going to be able to step into people’s lives and change them drastically,’’ he said, referring to heavy drinking, casual sexual encounters, and co-ed dormitories.
A Boston University task force has concluded that the men’s hockey team is detached from the general campus and that a “culture of sexual entitlement” exists among some players, a sense of privilege officials say contributed to two alleged sexual assaults on campus during the past season.
That culture of entitlement stems “in part from their elevated social status on campus,” and is marked by heavy use of alcohol and casual sexual encounters with female students.
Shocker.
One player, Corey Trivino, later pleaded guilty to assault, while rape charges against the second player, Max Nicastro,were dropped. Both players were removed from school.
[University President Robert] Brown said a “celebrity culture” around the team had fueled a “permissive attitude of sexual entitlement” among players. He said he was surprised by the scope of the problem and said the university needed to “punch holes in the walls” around the team, to reduce a “culture of isolation.”
[Provost Jean] Morrison said the status that hockey players enjoy on campus is similar to that of athletes in other high-profile programs, but the entitled culture had probably deepened over time. The team’s star culture is “actively supported by a small subset” of undergraduates, including women who pursue players romantically.
The report also found that a number of team members were admitted to the university despite grades and test scores that were considerably below average. With some exceptions, those athletes’ college grades also lag.
Yesterday the Boston Globe got its hands on the internal documents of the investigation, which reveals just how out of control things were:
In the documents…were tales of a late-night 2009 NCAA championship party at Agganis Arena where dozens of guests drank from kegs in the locker room showers and took to the ice naked to shoot pucks.
“It was insane,” one former student who attended told the BU task force. “People were having sex in the penalty box.”
The subcommittee documents make clear that at least some BU hockey players, surrounded by adoring fans, had “the perception that they need not seek consent for sexual contact.”
One player came close to admitting that. “You don’t ask [permission for sex] when you are drunk,” he told the task force, adding that he did not see how the actions of the two players charged last year constituted sexual assault.
A female student told the task force that a player had shoved his hands down her pants at a party and refused to stop even as she was punching him. She did not report the incident to authorities because, she said, “that’s just what [BU hockey players] do.”
Another told of a Facebook posting “in which hockey players boast about their sexual exploits,” referring to conquests as “kills.”
Parker told the task force he had stressed the importance of being respectful to women and advised players to avoid group sex, which the confidential report notes players engage in with surprising regularity. “However,” Parker is quoted as saying, “my job is not to say, ‘You guys gotta be celibate.’ ”
While salacious stories abound, it’s hard to get data on how many sexual partners athletes in college have, consensual or otherwise. No doubt there are large differences by sport as well. At BU, hockey players rule, while at Duke basketball and lax players have their pick.
Reader Zach recently shared the results of a survey distributed at Penn by a student newspaper. They sent out 1,500 anonymous surveys to a random sample of undergraduates and got over 500 back. It’s only one school, and one snapshot, and it includes both men and women, but it’s interesting nonetheless because it asks specifically about Greek life and athletics. Some highlights:
Why Guys Join Frats
Drunk is normal.
Athletes Rule
I’ve estimated the numbers to put the last graph into table format for a direct comparison:
| #Partners | All | Greeks | Athletes |
| 1-3 | 56% | 40% | 41% |
| 4-6 | 19% | 25% | 41% |
| 7-10 | 12% | 25% | 20% |
| 11-15 | 7% | 5% | 13% |
| 16-20 | 2% | 2% | 3% |
| > 20 | 4% | 3% | 3% |
| > 6 | 25% | 35% | 39% |
| > 10 | 13% | 10% | 19% |
Clearly, athletes get more sex than anyone else. Interestingly, though, 80% of them aren’t doing much hooking up, reporting 6 lifetime partners or less (no breakdown by class was provided). Joining a frat or playing a sport may get you in the door but neither is a one-way ticket to manwhore status.
Still, the sexual debauchery is real, at least at universities with big bucks athletic programs.
My .02:
When it comes to athletics, universities clearly prefer willful ignorance to ensuring the safety of their students.
It’s obvious that AD Parker is falling on his sword for this – he’s been stripped of his title, but will suffer no reduction in salary. Too often it’s “don’t ask, don’t tell.”
The teams have a small but ardent set of groupies who offer sexual favors.
With those girls, everything is on the table, all the time. (One college athlete refers to them as “creamies.”)
Trouble arises when athletes step outside that group with the same sense of entitlement:
- Corey Trivino refused to believe that a dorm RA would turn him down for sex.
- Another player says consent is unnecessary when drunk.
Parker is right that you just can’t change the culture of the university and curb drinking and casual sex.
What BU can and should do, however, is stop admitting dumb meatheads. They should also institute a zero tolerance policy and promptly expel athletes for any misconduct, including use of school property for orgies and shoving their fists down coeds’ jeans.
This will not happen.
This behavior by a few privileged, sociopathic males hurts all men by creating an impression of campus males as insensitive and violent sexual brutes.
This is precisely the kind of news item that will be used politically to make false rape charges easier to level against all male students. The fact that a hockey player doesn’t know what constitutes sexual assault, and believes that Trivino did nothing wrong by entering a girl’s room without invitation, refusing to leave, and attempting to grope her is profoundly troubling.
Most men don’t behave this way, including most athletes. As a parent I would think twice about sending a child to Boston University. It’s not physically safe for women, and not legally safe for men.
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“This behavior by a few privileged, sociopathic males hurts all men by creating an impression of campus males as insensitive and violent sexual brutes.”
Isn’t it the media that is dragging this out and beating it like a dead horse. I saw this article on the front page of a few sites yesterday and there clearly seems to be an agenda to use this anecdotal event and extrapolating it to: “creating an impression of campus males as insensitive and violent sexual brutes.”. But, not just campus males how about all males and slowly desensitizing the population from seeing this as an isolated event to a society wide phenomenon.
@INTJ (from prior post)
You’re a master of the obvious. Were it only that simple, I wouldn’t have shared the article at all. Nothing new if it was merely drunken hookups.
Good to see some parents chiming in, though. When they start withholding moola from their sons and daughters, I suspect that narcissists might start to thin out at these elite institutions.
What’s illuminating IMO is what some of these specimens will plead guilty (in criminal court) to doing when they don’t get what they feel entitled to from women. Seems like training camp for the future middle-aged sexual predators of America.
@Susan
Here’s the biggest problem for me. BU will introduce all kind of new rules and ways to get after men for sexual misbehavior.
None of which will apply to the hockey team or other athletes. Oh, sure, they will on paper, but they won’t in reality.
If you want a prime reason so many guys think entitled assholes get all the sex they want while regular guys get fucked over for even talking to girls this story is half of the answer. The other half will be in 15 years when it happens again and we learn the hockey team’s behavior never changed, they never got busted, and all the while plenty of regular guys got the full shit storm for much less.
After all, to defend athletes the president of CU, Elizabeth Hoffman, said “Yes, I’ve actually heard it used as a term of endearment,” about the use of the word cunt against a woman who had filed a rape allegation against a football player.
Yet it won’t be the football player but the English major who plays for that one.
I drove a taxi in college and dealt with groupies (for rock stars and athletes) and also dealt with many drunks (I’ll take a thousand people smoking marijuana over one drunk) and when you mix groupies with drunken athletes you’ll get trouble as sure as the sun rises.
I’ve seen drunks shot who didn’t know they were shot – and they fought the paramedics.
@SW
When it comes to athletics, universities clearly prefer willful ignorance to ensuring the safety of their students
That’s because a university can’t act in loco parentis any more. Not matter how emotionally immature they are, these kids are legal adults.
On the last thread, someone said that smart, hot girls go for jocks and Greeks. Your stats certainly prove that many girls do, but I’d think a really smart girl would shy away if these stats reflect the reality of the situation.
BTW, the kid who wouldn’t stop harassing the RA amazes me. What a dummy–or maybe, just someone who feels himself above the law and above normal consequences.
Yet it won’t be the football player but the English major who plays for that one.
Too true. A lot of money and alumni support is tied up in college athletics. I have never attended a college athletic event and don’t much value in it myself.
This reminds me of the 90s flick “The Program”, when poor, beleaguered coach James Caan was trying to keep the whole season from falling apart as his football team members had DUI incidents, internal rivalries, a sexual assault case, traumatic injuries, issues with academic performance (trying to study when dead tired from exhausting practices and games), and psychological problems coping with high expectations, media attention, and Heisman/Bowl pressure.
These are, of course, very old scenarios…Navy-Marine Corps aviation went through the Tailhook Convention debacle; fraternities routinely get kicked off campus for hazing and sexual allegations; athletes at both college and, God knows, professional levels are frequently involved in scandals (to be fair, the players are often attractive targets and hell hath no fury like a woman scorned).
Elite, tightly-knit groups of athletic/alpha males + booze + women = occasional problems. The media of course loves it when some of these guys get themselves into trouble, and they are lightning rods for controversy. But… you don’t get a poodle that turns into a Rottweiler at the flick of the switch; it’s a Rottweiler the whole time.
But… you don’t get a poodle that turns into a Rottweiler at the flick of the switch; it’s a Rottweiler the whole time.</i
True, I just don't get why we keep feeding the Rottweilers so many dog treats.
@Bastiat Blogger
I was in the Navy for Tailhook and it fits the pattern above:
1. Naval aviation has been like since WW2 (my grandfather was enlisted air…I heard the stories growing up) and the primary complainants weren’t even at their first Tailhook. That doesn’t make what happened right but it also wasn’t unexpected.
2. The entire Navy went apeshit over sexual harassment. Tons of required “men are evil pigs and women should complain if you look at them cross-eyed” stuff. At one point pinups weren’t allowed in barracks rooms because a female inspector might inspect the room and get offended. Worst case I saw that wasn’t outright abuse of the system (saw just one of those and in the end it bit her in the ass) was two guys telling jokes and a woman they couldn’t even see or knew was there got offended. They both got busted down a rank.
3. Navy air hasn’t changed a bit.
I can already see it here:
Lots of universities now consider sex with either (or both) parties drunk sexual assault on the man’s part (if she’s drunk she can’t consent, if he is he couldn’t control himself). Notice the player in question isn’t shown as being tossed off campus. Some English major will next year though.
You might say, how does that affect the average woman. Simple, too many women cheer these changes on, are happy to enforce them, yet are okay with “hot guys” not being punished.
The ‘sphere likes to say sexual harassment law isn’t about any rude behavior but just about making sure undesirables can be punished for presuming. This story and it’s outcomes are just more fuel for that fire.
Frankly, I’m not sure I believe this stuff anymore.
Are the charges any more prevalent than in frats or the GDI population? Wouldn’t there be a LOT more, if there really was a culture of entitlement?
I wonder if they couldn’t come up with enough charges harassment of rape – so they are come up with a new category called “entitlement culture”, which probably includes accepting consensual casual sex from women.
“I drove a taxi in college and dealt with groupies (for rock stars and athletes) and also dealt with many drunks (I’ll take a thousand people smoking marijuana over one drunk)”
And yet the former is illegal while the latter is legal. Go figure.
But its in keeping with the overall cultural values here. Alcohol makes one more aggressive (yeah! raaarrrrrr!) while ganja chills people out and makes them more mellow. Can’t have that now can we?
No one will dare suggest out load that a core part of this problem is the behavior of the groupies. Their actions are what produce a belief within the sports teams that all coeds want to bang them. Their actions teach their environment about hypergamy.
If coeds stopped sexing these thugs, this issue would stop right away. Of course, this notion is literally un-think-able to the vast bulk of academia.
Susan and readers, you might find this interesting
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2198813/Ten-perfect-number-partners–promiscuous.html
I’ve had a lot of experience in major college athletes, and none of this surprises me at all. But I’m also in agreement with OTC that the media framing seems to want to find something whether it’s there or not. They’ve already made up their mind.
The “When you’re drunk you don’t ask for permission…” doesn’t amount to anything. Unless they’re seductively inept, nobody directly asks for permission when they’re sober.
But overall, the situation is a perfect illustration who gets rewarded in today’s SMP.
I did get a good chuckle out of the “sex in the penalty box”
I thought women were the gatekeepers of sex? They’re having group sex with these guys in the hockey arena, and were supposed to be looking at the atheletes disapprovingly?
So there are lots of women who want to have sex with the the hockey players. Including women having group sex with the players. Is the school going to investigate the culture of those women?
Why should the hockey players change their ways? It is succesful with women.
Accrding to this article, both the hockey players and their groupies will wind up with more or less the ideal number of sexual partners by the age of 23, which will increase the comfort level of prospective mates, enabling them to settle down successfully by mid 20s, should they so choose.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2198813/Ten-perfect-number-partners–promiscuous.html
Quote,
“How many lovers is too many? According to the latest survey, 10 really is the perfect number.
Researchers found that both men and women were put off potential new partners who had had more than 10 partners – as they were seen as promiscuous.
But partners who had had fewer than 10 lovers were seen as inexperienced.”
@Phil
Because the women are mad the hockey players were successful with them, and the hockey players being successful with them was wrong.
“A female student told the task force that a player had shoved his hands down her pants at a party and refused to stop even as she was punching him. She did not report the incident to authorities because, she said, “that’s just what [BU hockey players] do.”
Bullshit. She should have called the police and had him arrested.
That is nothing short of serious sexual assault.
“This behavior by a few privileged, sociopathic males hurts all men by creating an impression of campus males as insensitive and violent sexual brutes.
This is precisely the kind of news item that will be used politically to make false rape charges easier to level against all male students. The fact that a hockey player doesn’t know what constitutes sexual assault, and believes that Trivino did nothing wrong by entering a girl’s room without invitation, refusing to leave, and attempting to grope her is profoundly troubling.”
OK so if there are some male students out there that do not know what constitutes sexual assault, WHY are so many in the “sphere” opposed to such education being provided to male students?
See, this is what I mean when I say A LOT of what men who frequent those “mens” blogs say being totally whack. If I were a male student who was unclear about what did or did not constitute sexual assault, I damn sure would want to be educated about it, wouldn’t you?
I just can’t fathom why any man would want to remain in the dark about that, or why he would want his fellow “bros” to remain in the dark about that. You’d think those so concerned with “mens’ rights” would promote the right to an education about what does or does not constitute legal sexual assault.
@Plain Jane (may heaven forgive me for engaging you)
Such training is given: freshman orientation, the take back the night walk (who made us move SCA fighter practice at A&M because it was violent…even martial arts which women were doing were a threat), and the numerous “no means no” campaigns.
However, there is another form of training being provided:
I bring a girl home from a party where she’s been drinking, it’s rape.
A hockey player publicly molests a woman and that’s just what they do.
And BU will make new rules about how overly touching a woman is sexual assault. Some guy will see a girl he was friendly with in the library and, being a little bolder than is wise these days, walk up behind her and start rubbing her shoulders. A week later he’s before a disciplinary hearing being asked when he plans on moving to out and out rape.
While the hockey player who sits next to him in psych “shoved his hands down her pants at a party and refused to stop even as she was punching him” last Friday night.
Every time the privileged guys go too far the new rules come down like a hammer on those who aren’t and the privileged continue.
How is forcing my happy ass to endure another six hours of “men are evil disgusting pigs who are all one step away from being a rapist” going to help? Some women will still put out with the jocks who occasionally fail to identify if a woman is a sports whore or not and what I’ve been trained about sexual assault won’t do a damned thing to change it.
@Plain Jane
The ‘sphere gives quite realistic training on sexual assault. On US college campuses it’s whatever a woman say is sexual assault regardless of what she said or did while it was happening. Some places (not all but some) have even reached the point where essentially you can retroactively remove consent.
My advice, here in the open, to all men in college is don’t have sex with a college woman.
Period.
If you go to have some, hire a prostitute and use a condom. It’s safer and the legal risk is lower too.
I say, bring back Doug1 to debate Plain Jane.
#20 is a brilliantly crafted post which should illustrate to anyone the basics of controlling the frame in a political debate.
Gems like “If I were a male student who was unclear about what did or did not constitute sexual assault, I damn sure would want to be educated about it, wouldn’t you?” can be analyzed for pages on how to box your clueless opponent into disagree with the words, while tacitly agreeing with the frame.
(third thread, she’s ignoring it elsewhere. another radfem speciality)
Want to know why it’s pointless talking to radfems (radical feminists) like Plain Jane?
They don’t share reality with humanity. They don’t argue honestly (as pointed out above in the comments). No lie is too big or small to tell. No evasion too slippery (Clinton would be proud to be in their league).
Here is a link to the research of a guy ‘Agent Orange’, who infiltrated radfemhub; http://agentorangefiles.com/
Beyond comments by child ‘carers’ saying they despised their baby boy charges as ‘future rapists’. There’s speculation on how we should genetically modify men, or just kill (90% – 100%) of them.
At the bottom of that page is a video by SCUM (Society for Cutting Up Men) made as a public service video in Sweden. It was on Youtube for a year before Agent Orange released his research.
A man reading a newspaper in a lounger is shot twice in the head by a woman, the female film crew then commence sticking fingers in the head wounds, licking the wounds and dancing in joy. This is the joy of a radfem.
http://counterfem.blogspot.co.uk/2012/02/interesting-video-about-agent-orange.html
http://www.manwomanmyth.com/feminism/feminisms-underbelly-the-agent-orange-files/
So, I’d rather take lessons on morality from a chimp than listen to a radfem. And underneath they are all like that, nucking futs.
There’s nothing even close to that sh1t in the manosphere.
This has been a public service broadcast in defence of sanity, reality and honesty.
Don’t feed the hate filled troll
The problem with all of the false accusations against men in general, and athletes in particular, tends to make is so when I see something like this, my first inclination is to dismiss it as “morning after regret” on the woman’s part at best, and a blatant lie at worst.
I saw it more than a few times when I was in college long ago, and these days it is just that much worse, so while I have seen the headlines, I tend to dismiss the allegations, and the fact that the men plead guilty actually proves nothing, since much of the time, the DA’s are out to get them, as have been shown by the Duke case. Too many DA’s are “out to get” athletes and men… So when I see this type of headline, I dismiss it, and always have “reasonable doubt” in my mind…
I might give credence to the accusation if the woman were beaten black and blue… And that is iffy as I have known more than a few women who stay in abusive relationships because they seem to enjoy being beaten.
“My advice, here in the open, to all men in college is don’t have sex with a college woman.
Period.
If you go to have some, hire a prostitute and use a condom. It’s safer and the legal risk is lower too.”
Co-sign. Agree 100% !!!
PJ
As you are aware, the law on sexual assault does not apply to what a guy actually did but to what a woman claims he did. Any additional evidence may or may not be required.
Chuck Berry used to bang oceans of white tang, even when he was in the South in the 1950s. He just had his assistants take pictures to prove his versions. Nowadays, it is easier than ever for guys to protect themselves that way.
Herb hit the nail on the head. What’s worse is that, in my experience, the athletes think the rest of the campus are the same as the groupies. Thanks to a few mutual acquaintances and the fact I physically fit in with the athletes, I saw a lot of this go on at my alma mater. I wouldn’t say every athlete takes advantage. Believe it or not, they’re about as likely to have a normal dating life as the average person on campus. The difference is the outliers are WAAAY out there even compared to the frat guys.
When you have so many women looking for the golden ticket or just trying to be with that high-status guy, someone who is psychologically out of wack as is gets seriously enabled. I don’t think sports creates this mindset as much as enables guys who already think that way to take full advantage. There are engineering geeks who feel the same way, but since they lack that kind of pull, they’re reduced to downloading porn and working out their entitlement that way.
Also, these rules they have seem to reflect a major apex fallacy. While they are focused on what any person would consider objectionable behavior, they end up being used on the peons among the men. Rarely do elite men have to deal with sex assault charges, which is why elite, entitled men knock themselves out with sexual assault. Meanwhile, some poor shmuck with a crush on the wrong woman has to deal with the pain of that for the rest of their lives with no real recourse.
Rum,
“PJ
As you are aware, the law on sexual assault does not apply to what a guy actually did but to what a woman claims he did. Any additional evidence may or may not be required.”
You are wrong. Its not the “law” that does not apply but its these college committees which were created to deal internally with assault issues that make them into a he said/she said debate over Skype.
If the accusers take the case to an actual US court of law, there will have to be some evidence, not just he said/she said.
The college committees are working more in favor for the college male students accused of assault because all they have the power to do is suspend their students, not throw them behind bars. Alleged victims are being pressured into taking their “complaints” to these on-campus committees so that the Universities can save face, and heavily discouraged from pursuing these cases in a court of law.
If on the other hand these committees were to be dismantled, and alleged victims encouraged to take their cases through actual LEGAL channels, then evidence would have to be given in a court of law in order to convict the alleged perpetrator.
I was an RA at BU in 2008 and 2009 and in 2008 had several hockey players living under my guise.
I can say that the hockey team obviously had immortal status not only given to them by the student body, but perhaps even more so by the administration. Hockey players would be written up for incidents (like drugs/alcohol) that normal students would be put on probation for, or perhaps worse, and nothing would ever happen to them.
That being said, I doubt the “culture” led to sexual assault. Hockey players get laid because they’re athletes of near professional level and in incredible shape. Given these facts, I doubt the rate of sexual assault among hockey players at BU is higher than any other segment of the student population. If anything, the level of sexual assault among the hockey players should be lower than the general student population because it’s so easy for them to get laid.
These two guys, if they’re guilty, probably would have done this even if they weren’t influenced by “the culture” because guys who do this have issues to begin with.
“Chuck Berry used to bang oceans of white tang, even when he was in the South in the 1950s. He just had his assistants take pictures to prove his versions. Nowadays, it is easier than ever for guys to protect themselves that way.”
Easier and also illegal to video someone without their consent. I don’t think the majority of women are consenting to having their casual sexcapades recorded in the age of Youtube, Girl Gone Wild notwithstanding.
Interesting you bring up Chuck Berry. Have you seen the argument made in the sphere-that-shant-be-named that false allegations apply only to white men but when it comes to black men everyone knows they of course rape white women so all white women must be believed when accusing a black man?
That’s another reason why that sphere will do nothing to actually help men.
The Womens’ Movement may have been majority white, but it wasn’t racist.
Interesting statistics: 90.8 % of Greeks have had sex while drunk, but 20% are virgins!
@ Dale
I assumed that was 90.8% of sexual encounters were while drunk. Though it’s possible that people aren’t counting non-penetrative sex as loss of virginity.
@Plain Jane
Or
The college committees are working more in favor for the college female students accusing assault because they can make complaints without evidence and at many universities cannot even be cross-examined. Alleged victims are being encourage into taking their “complaints” to these on-campus committees so to avoid having the real issues given the light of day.
If on the other hand these committees were to be dismantled, and alleged victims encouraged to take their cases through actual LEGAL channels, then evidence would have to be given in a court of law in order to convict the alleged perpetrator and face their own prosecution for perjury (in theory at least…given one can recant a rape accusation years later while the man has sat in prison and face no penalty despite stealing his life: http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2012/05/woman-who-recanted-rape-claim-likely-to-keep-750000-settlement.html and http://www.talkleft.com/story/2009/12/10/203014/15).
@ Herb,
“The college committees are working more in favor for the college female students accusing assault because they can make complaints without evidence and at many universities cannot even be cross-examined. Alleged victims are being encourage into taking their “complaints” to these on-campus committees so to avoid having the real issues given the light of day.”
Not according to this site which documents several cases;
http://www.publicintegrity.org/2011/04/08/3973/portland-college-students-demand-changes-sexual-assault-process
no mention anywhere is what would constitute consent.
women’s suffrage has done the following to sex:
prohibited prostitution
introduced the concept of marital rape
disallowed the concept of bringing the character of women into question during rape accusations.
WHAT WOULD CONSTITUTE CONSENT?
Even Naomi Wolf agreed in this video that using an elastic version of rape harms real victims. But the real issue is never brought up
what would constitute consent?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7nvcIbvEt3w
Troll: “Easier and also illegal to video someone without their consent. I don’t think the majority of women are consenting to having their casual sexcapades recorded in the age of Youtube, Girl Gone Wild notwithstanding.”
Yeah. I’m not allowed to set up a security video camera in my own house?
I aint no lawyer, but if that recording is enough to clear false rape charges, then the penalty for that is much better than being a falsely convicted sex offender.
Further, it depends on the state. I think in some, it is legal to record video without audio.
@Plain Jane
I’ll see your Portland College and raise you a Yale, UVA, and Duke:
http://www.yaledailynews.com/news/2011/oct/07/changing-title-ix/
and
So, civil litigation standards and at Duke double jeopardy.
Now, which do you think is more influential nationwide: Yale and Duke or Portland College?
PJ
I brought up Chuck Berry because he operated in an environment of maximum peril – as a black man having sex with with white women back in the day back in the olde South back when such a thing was regarded as rape until proven otherwise. All he had to do was get lots of photos showing the chick forcing her way back stage and coming on to him.
A guy with good images on record has leverage. It may or may not be illegal but the woman dam sure does not want the whole world to see her cellulite ass while she gives some guy head. Which is what would happen if she made some kind of formal complaint when the someguy had foresight.
LBJ had a lot of women right accross his desk in the Oval Office. He had a warning system in place with the Secret Service in case his wife was getting closer. What do you imagine would have happened to his desk-top playmates if they had turned on him?
When love ends, brute force leverage is all that matters. How many spurned lovers of John Gotti ever gave him trouble?
PS. That “Dear Colleague” letter was from the Federal Gov’t (The Department of Education) and included words about money.
Think threats of loss of federal funds if they don’t tip things more to the complainant isn’t making these a better venue for a woman to roll the dice?
OTC,
“Yeah. I’m not allowed to set up a security video camera in my own house?”
I don’t know. Check this case out;
http://westchase.patch.com/articles/bulgarian-women-sue-westchase-restaurant-owner
Herb,
“Complaints filed against the schools accused them of using inappropriately high standards of evidence to prove sexual misconduct and of failing to resolve sexual misconduct cases promptly. ”
Herb, this is why they need to scrap the college committees and just encourage alleged victims to go straight to police, lawyers and the United States justice system. College counselors and mediators are neither trained nor qualified to deal with crimes, whether they are real or false.
That way factual assaults will be prosecuted and false accusations will get thrown out. Win/win.
@J
I wonder if Trivino got it through a legacy admission, because his intelligence was certainly lacking.
The BU Daily Free Press got transcripts of the police report. He was loaded, but the RA hadn’t had any alcohol apparently. Really stupid move (times 3) on his part. If he had jumped some drunk bimbo instead, it might have been “she said/he said” and charges being dropped:
http://dailyfreepress.com/2011/12/13/breaking-corey-trivino-kicked-off-bu-hockey-team-2/
“If he had jumped some drunk bimbo instead, it might have been “she said/he said” and charges being dropped:”
Well thank the gods he didn’t. This way at least, even though she had to undergo a traumatic event (but thank the gods not rape), a criminal might be brought to justice and prevented from attacking again, provided our justice system works.
Its for cases like these that I defend our right to bear arms.
And by the way, if she were drunk it wouldn’t make it any less a crime.
“My advice, here in the open, to all men in college is don’t have sex with a college woman.
Another data point for the college 80% disconnect. Some men are surely aware that a college woman can accuse a man of rape for no reason and get him expelled. Good to more factors at work.
I wonder if the college girls desperate for boyfriends have any idea of this being a problem and if they would welcome this solution. I’m guessing no.
“I brought up Chuck Berry because he operated in an environment of maximum peril – as a black man having sex with with white women back in the day back in the olde South back when such a thing was regarded as rape until proven otherwise.”
Another reason why I don’t wish to bring back the 50s. But have you noticed the sphere holds that era up as the ideal? Probably because there was less competition, if ya get my drift. Heh. Insert “once you go….” aw hell forget it. Everyone knows the rest.
“My advice, here in the open, to all men in college is don’t have sex with a college woman.”
I’ll match that and one up you. How about advice to all men:
Don’t have sex with a woman until you are married!
That is the best form of false rape allegation protection, second only to going completely celibate for life.
@Susan
Susan, before PJ sends me off to the reeducation camps along with all the other males here, I want to point a finger of blame in another direction.
I’m pointing it at you.
???
Yeah, but I’m pointing it at me too, because both of us should know better than to ever come close to labeling this – up to 6 sexual partners by the end of your college career – as normal. Like it or not, that’s the admitted interpretation of the graphs when you say that it doesn’t constitute “manwhore” status.
2,3 4, 5!, 6!! partners may be a median or a mode or a mean or any other term used to obfuscate the issue, but IT IS NOT NORMAL. The problem is that it’s seen as normal by way too many people who should know better.
I’m depressed because it’s just more proof we’ve done a lousy job at educating our kids.
“2,3 4, 5!, 6!! partners may be a median or a mode or a mean or any other term used to obfuscate the issue, but IT IS NOT NORMAL. ”
Joe, can you define what you mean by normyl?
According to this survey, 10 is the “perfect” number, for both men and women;
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2198813/Ten-perfect-number-partners–promiscuous.html
And by the way, if she were drunk it wouldn’t make it any less a crime.
I think you need to start educating your fellow sisters on that one:
Women say some rape victims should take blame – survey
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/8515592.stm
Megaman, the article you linked to started off, “Almost three quarters of the women who believed this said if a victim got into bed with the assailant before an attack they should accept some responsibility.”
In the Trivino case she did not get into bed with him. Had she been drunk and the scenario went down as it did, that would not in any way make a difference.
Surely you’re not suggesting that had the RA been drunk, Trivino’s attempted rape of her would have been ok and she would have no case, are you?
Was there an special of Troll Chow at Walmart or something like it?
@Calamity Jane
I don’t recall suggesting anything of the sort. Perhaps you can quote me? Since you’re fond of sharing articles and surveys, I decided to link to one that seemed relevant. Apparently, you missed the important parts:
The study found that women were less forgiving of the victim than men.
One-third (of women) blamed victims who had dressed provocatively or gone back to the attacker’s house for a drink.
It doesn’t sound like male jurists are the problem when it comes to meting out justice to actual rapists. Perhaps reading the whole article and reflecting on it might aid in your understanding.
Me: “Surely you’re not suggesting that had the RA been drunk… ”
Megaman: “I don’t recall suggesting anything of the sort. ”
Megaman earlier: “If he had jumped some drunk bimbo instead, it might have been “she said/he said” and charges being dropped”
In other news…..
Why women can’t have affairs and men can’t handle open relationships…
http://www.elephantjournal.com/2010/12/oxytocin-why-women-cant-have-affairs/
Sync-town! This just in from the same website. What a coincidink-wink-wink
http://www.elephantjournal.com/2012/09/best-rape-prevention-tips/
This blog post makes me hate groupies. They are reinforcing the behavior of these troglodytes (athletes).
I really don’t understand why all the bemoaning about the fact that some “innocent” men will fall under the restrictive laws while most athletes will go untouched. Some people fall through the cracks all the time. Most sexual assaults go unreported, just like that girl who had that guy’s hands down her pants. If you’re already crying now, wait until you actually find out how many girls are actually molested, you’ll freak. I find it very offensive that some men around here just dismiss violence against women. I work with women victims sometimes and it is not a pretty picture. Maybe you’re confused about what is appropriate or not, and in any doubt, like PJ suggested it would be in the best interest of all men to get acquainted with more precise examples just to make sure and, just like smart women do, avoid all “dangerous’ situations that could be wrongly interpreted.
I can see how women can use harsh judgement against over women who find themselves in those situation just because it is instilled very early in young girls that they have to be careful since the “trouble” element is all around. However, while there can be responsibility for being in a certain place at a certain time, it doesn’t equal to being responsible for someone else’s actions. Are victims of mugging being dismissed because they had the bad judgement to walk in that dark alley? Clearly no.
I really don’t know how all the threads around here end up with “well, women are crazy unfeeling creatures so…” as a conclusion. Quite tedious; take some responsibility for once!
Are victims of mugging being dismissed because they had the bad judgement to walk in that dark alley? Clearly no.
Well I do call idiot anyone that goes to a bad neighborhood counting money or/and wearing expensive clothes or a guy that allows himself to get provoked and ends up in a fight/jail or someone that leaves his car keys in the ignition and gets robbed or someone that gets drunk with strangers and ends up in trouble regardless the nature of those…Bad judgement shouldn’t be shielded but shamed hard, humans can be really daft, YMMV.
“Most sexual assaults go unreported, just like that girl who had that guy’s hands down her pants. ”
Yeah, he’s lucky it wasn’t me he did that to. I’d have shot him in the foot and then called the police! Women are far too soft on this sort of assault. And again, college counselors should not be handling it – the police and courts should!
Now watch Mireille, someone will accuse you of being me and Susan will be requested to check IPs.
Epoche*
I watched the Wolf vs Friedman videos and the first time I heard of the Assange case, what was it – last year or the year before? – two words popped up in my mind:
psy-op and cointelpro.
Wolf seems to hint at both here;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vwNK6LfLpU0&feature=related
“enemy combatant” and “shipped to Guantanamo” !!!
“or someone that gets drunk with strangers and ends up in trouble ”
Like Trivino.
I wonder if his lawyer will try to play the drunk card to get him off?
I wonder how many sexual assaults or false allegations thereof take place as a result of being under the influence of marijuana as compared to alcohol?
Why is alcohol legal, pimped and promoted in this culture when it clearly results in a lot of dangerous fuckery? Could it be that is precisely WHY its legal, pimped and promoted? Hmmmm. Something to think about.
Is our culture one that is more comfortable with drugs that make us aggressive than drugs that make us passive?
Something else to think about.
tsk tsk PJ, trying to change the subject from one that you’re losing?
shame on you (look it up)
Christ, the guy was practically a god on campus. So he was belligerent and over insistent a few times, so what? When you command that kind of power among so many, you can tend to make a few mistakes here and there in judging where the limits of it lie. Especially in such a murky area like female desire. It wasn’t a violent assault, this wasn’t a guy starving for sexual attention. He groped her a few times, probably while drunk. Most girls were acting like hyenas in heat around him, they would’ve thought it was romantic, so what’s a guy supposed to think?
If this girl is so pious what’s she doing conspicuously putting herself in the vicinity of all this debauchery?
Off-topic: there’s missing T in HTML title tag on your main page; browsers display it as “Hooking Up Smar”.
“Christ, the guy was practically a god on campus. So he was belligerent and over insistent a few times, so what? ”
Atheists are a growing demographic on campus so perhaps that explains it.
So true! Universities have to either stop admitting known Rottweilers or have them under surveillance. Obviously, that’s not going to happen.
Unfortunately, this will not affect BU in any real negative way. During the Duke lacrosse scandal (before the accusations were proved false) applications rose sharply, and alumnae rallied with funds.
@OTC
I think there is a lot more. The woman who admitted she didn’t bother to report the guy trying to fist her is probably one of many. They know there’s no point in reporting that about a hockey player.
??? The investigation was prompted by charges of rape and sexual assault. The entitlement culture is the cause, not the symptom, and it certainly includes consensual sex, e.g. penalty box hookups.
@Rum
That’s a really good point. What do Women’s Studies professors think of these “sex-positive Girls Gone Wild?” Is this female empowerment? We need some form of sanctioned slut shaming. You’ll never get rid of groupies, but they are definitely aiding and abetting – especially since their unconditional consent means they aren’t raped.
No one disciplined hockey players for consensual sex. The problem is that they’re having sex with women who don’t open the gates.
Massive disapproval, i.e. expulsion, required.
I do think it’s in BU’s best interests to disallow the use of school property for sexual orgies, but hey, that’s just me.
I guess a moral of the story is that LTR-seeking undergrads should avoid:
1. Athletes
2. Fraternity/secret society members
3. Good-looking/very good-looking men
4. Men attracted to “1-Percenter” finance or political careers
5. Men with N>3-6
6. Men of unusually high SMV for non-obvious reasons
7. Fisherian Explorers
8. Dark Triads
9. Men with Jersey Shore guido/douche affectations
10. Edgy Creatives (rock musicians, etc.)
11. Members of very high-T, violent professionals (ex.: Marines)
12. Men who have many good-looking female friends
13. Men who do not get along with women
14. Men who get along with women a bit too well
15. Emotionally unavailable men
16. Overly emotional and needy men
17. Brooding loners
18. Men with sports cars, motorcycles, and/or tattoos
http://www.elephantjournal.com/2012/09/best-rape-prevention-tips/
Yeah. Let’s prevent drug overdoses, by making snarky ad campaigns to asking drug manufactures and dealers never to make or sell drugs. We could also aim PSAs to thieves reminding them to not rob houses, or cars, and post ‘em on subways and buses! I wonder how effective those will be.
Mirielle: “I find it very offensive that some men around here just dismiss violence against women”
Not dismissing it, but I am certainly not going to automatically take the woman’s side anymore. Be offended.
A few years ago, I’d be squarely on the women’s side (and that’s despite having a roommate who had consensual sex with a man, bragged about it to me, then a few days later retroactively changed it to rape to get back at him. Why didn’t I see it then?).
Eventually, I realized everyone instinctually takes her side on the situation, solely because she is female. On top of that, women entirely dismiss violence against men. Until I see any or shred of sympathy towards men, I refuse to give unthinking, unconditional support to women that are not my family. I don’t expect that to happen anytime soon, really, so, you’re on your own.
Of course, someone will try to paint me a pro-assault, which isn’t true. People who actually do assault should be punished according to the law, and not vigilante justice or public social crucifixion.
I’m no dummy, I think the likelihood of there truly being assault here, is very high. But the goal isn’t to punish one person for his actions, it’s to make all the legal/consensual stuff look just as bad via association, and to show that if men have too much legal, consensual casual sex, then it will turn into harassment, with zero focus or responsibility put on the women who actually willingly sign up for it.
i’m not surprised by this at all. But i don;t understand how it’s the responsibility of all women to fix a certain subset of women who chase after athletes. What men don’t seem to understand is that not all women have equal power. The 3,4,and 5s certainly can’t hold a candle to the 9′s social power. In the end of the day, the best way to deal with the situation is to smile all the hook-uppers and cheer their sexual empowerment. What else can you do?
Sure, athletes shouldn’t be in college have such an aura of entitlement, but I see two problems, as we know, colleges will never stop admitting athletes because athletes bring attention, money, and status to colleges that would otherwise have nothing. Furthermore, I don’t see how it’s an athlete thing. If brilliant engineers were suddenly highly respected by the school culture, they would get all the girls and rape others. It doesn’t have much to do with athletes, just entitlement. The truth is there will always be a top & bottom of the social ladder and some men will always be on top. at least for the men on the bottom, they can learn game, make money in latter life and so on. But for women on the bottom of the attractiveness ladder, they are not pretty during their youth, hit the wall faster and quickly approach the time when even less men will look at them than before. The only option a woman has then is lots of plastic surgery or they become feminists. See, many people here are only interested in how the most attractive women act, never mind that the uglier women live in a completely different world. It’s ridiculous how only pretty women’s voices matter and how only their behaviors get generalized to the whole female population. I’m starting to see the allure of feminism.
“Massive disapproval, i.e. expulsion, required”
I have absolutely no problem with these guys facing a court of law. But not some kangaroo court set up in a university running on emotion, PC and PR concerns. Use the law.
And also use the law on FRAs and give equivalent sentences to false accusers as are given to those that are convicted of actual rape. If a woman accuses a guy of something that would ruin his life and it gets to be proved to be an FRA, then her life should be equally ruined. (N.B. an FRA is not the same as a failure to convict the guy). No more anonymity for the accusers, people have the right to know that she’s made 12 previous allegations / has lied to immigration (untrustworthy) etc.
And while Mireille raises the issue of responsibility, lets see some women sack up. Ana’s comments were spot on about sympathy for men mugged when visiting rough areas, or fighting when drunk – there is no sympathy, for some reason men bear partial responsibility under those circumstances. Why isn’t that true for women getting passing out drunk, or visiting the same rough areas? Aren’t they equal to men? why the different attitudes in the current environment?
And OTC is right; no more automatic sympathy before hearing the facts, all of them. Rape is a terrible thing, but so is an FRA. Let’s see some justice all round.
“Creamies.” Le mot juste.
What is the point of all the graphs now? They emphasize the reality of a sexual marketplace this website thinks it can persuade into voluntary extinction through sophistry. Tell us something we don’t know.
If you want your crusade to have a fighting chance, begin by assessing the situation properly. “The heart has its reasons which reason knows nothing of.” One cannot be merely persuaded to abandon instinct. One must be trained from birth, or forced.
Your interpretation of normal, human functioning outside the strictures of chastity as rape culture by alpha cads sends your entire thesis off kilter. Women will not be persuaded by “You Go Girl!” mantras. They will be forced by a recovery of shame culture, and nothing less. All else are half-measures that wither where the rubber meets the ho.
The attempt to shame men has collapsed over a century of trying. This website’s contribution to that outmoded tactic produces rather stark denials of reality, such as in the post above, where we learn by implication that the sexual miasma is exclusively the fault of men’s “brutal[ity].” Become comfortable calling a loose woman a loose woman, and you’re halfway toward fixing the problem. Instructing girls to “Hook[] Up Smart” isn’t going to cut it.
Matt
Just1X, you can’t give equal sentences to FRA and rapists because lying/perjury is not equal to rape. I would support criminal action, like a fine, a short of a felony conviction, or a year in a minimum security jail. However, most rapes go unreported and happen between people the rapist knows his victim. So, at the same time, we don’t want to stop people form coming forward to stop crimes. Remember that rape is not only a female problem, men are raped too. I respectfully disagree with Ana, I still feel sympathy for men mugged visiting a rough area, or women who are passed out drunk . I do think that if both people are drunk, we would have to dismiss rape allegations b/c both were under the influence. But this idea of ” Let’s not give sympathy to women to get raped while passed out drunk” is odious to me, what if something was slipped in her drunk? Do we also have no sympathy for women who go to frat parties? Who wear a shorter skirt? It’s similar to MRA’s claims that women who are abused by alphas are in the wrong for choosing alphas? So men who married women who cheat on them, divorce them and take their money/kids are in the wrong for marrying those women?
I’m all for teaching people that their are safer ways to live, i.e, don’t want through rough streets at night, but as someone who has wandered through a project at 8 or 9 pm, because i was lost, I would hate for anyone to tell me that if I was raped, murdered, mugged or so on, it was my fault.
I agree with you about no automatic sympathy, though.
J-A-T
I’m sure we could come to a compromise, but it would involve real gaol time for trying to put someone away for a very long time (and ruining his life) through lying – not a slap on the wrist, not a fine, not a holiday camp – real time in a real gaol. A detterent against lies.
“most rapes go unreported ” – IDK? how do you come to that statement? feminism has distorted all stats to the point that I don’t believe them. 1 in 4 women are raped? ORLY? I don’t believe it. I want grown up independant scientists providing numbers with details of their derivation.
I’m not saying that there’s no sympathy for mugged drunk men, but they are commonly seen to have contributed to what happened. Well, what’s sauce for the goose, is sauce for the gander…
and your examples are aimed at dragging emotion into a question of justice – that is exactly what is unacceptable. There’s a reason that we have laws rather than “oh we’ll let this one go, I’m in a good mood today” / “I don’t like the look of him, hang him”. Laws are supposed to be standard across everybody – and they clearly are not being applied like that nowadays.
In the UK some official bunch of libtards proposed closing all women’s gaols to government, just punish them in the population – WTF? We have female murders, they should be allowed to roam, should they?
Justice is supposed to be blind, otherwise you can’t call it justice any more.
“Gems like ‘If I were a male student who was unclear about what did or did not constitute sexual assault, I damn sure would want to be educated about it, wouldn’t you?’ can be analyzed for pages on how to box your clueless opponent into disagree with the words, while tacitly agreeing with the frame.”
Please explain. I’m not disagreeing, or even doubting, I just want to see the logic chain.
“The problem is that they’re having sex with women who don’t open the gates.”
That’s not “having sex” – that’s rape. Rape is crime.
“Massive disapproval, i.e. expulsion, required.”
Disapproval and expulsion for rape?!
See, this is why schools need to stay out of it and the police and justice system need to be brought in. Expulsion is for students who deface a beloved statue on campus or peek over shoulders for answers on exams. For students who rape, there’s jail.
but as someone who has wandered through a project at 8 or 9 pm, because i was lost, I would hate for anyone to tell me that if I was raped, murdered, mugged or so on, it was my fault.
You are projecting. Getting in trouble by accident is not what we mean. If you willingly go to a dangerous place, drink with strangers, leave your house unlocked because “I have the right not the be assaulted/mugged/raped no matter what I do” you are being stupid. The very definition of a criminal is someone that doesn’t care about anyone’s rights and not campaign is going to change that and not teaching people to be safe in the name of some vague philosophy is irresponsible and stupid. Again I had wandered around dangerous places by accident and I’m really happy that nothing happened but trust me I never did it twice knowing the risks s that too much to ask?
But then in my country if you are that stupid you don’t live long, I rather shame a living and breathing person into stop acting like a prey, that cry for justice in their wake, but that is just me I you know appreciate life more than “rights”, YMMV.
“Getting in trouble by accident is not what we mean. If you willingly go to a dangerous place, drink with strangers, leave your house unlocked because “I have the right not the be assaulted/mugged/raped no matter what I do” you are being stupid. ”
What about going to parties with friends? Obviously you will not know everyone there. A very large majority might be strangers in fact.
“Exactly. This is all pussyfooting around the actual issue. What rape? A guy who was used to having ass handed to him foolishly and arrogantly assumed too much. While drunk. Big deal.”
Yeah, he’ll be seeing what a big deal sexual assault is, maybe from behind bars, if our justice system works.
Shrung. There’s a massive double standard here though that people ignore. I like yoga, and I’ve had cougars touch my crotch while I was in a vulnerable position (headstand and headstand, where I couldn’t withdraw or do anything really). I complained, nothing was done about it. Obviously if I touched a girl like that in an inversion there would be a massive shit-storm. I got over it. I now know that over-sexed hags are to be avoided.
Some women who go on and on about sexual assault need to realize that a guy being clumsy or obtuse while making out isn’t a crime, it just makes him bad in bed. They should move on and drop their victimhood complex.
Jesus, what a mess this thread is. It’s like the inversion of the hot and mean thread.
It’s traditionally been the male role to keep these dipshits in line, and when the women encroach on our territory to tell us what a crappy job we’ve been doing, or worse try to take over our role (and yes, then proceed to abuse it to go after the wrong men) we get all hot and bothered and defensive instead of stepping up to do our jobs.
Both genders would rather point fingers at the other for getting into their business instead of making sure their business gets done right.
“But Parker expressed a seemingly different view in an interview yesterday.
‘You can’t change the culture that’s evolved here; we’re not going to be able to step into people’s lives and change them drastically,’’ he said, referring to heavy drinking, casual sexual encounters, and co-ed dormitories.”
This guy should be fired, and a man hired to do the job. That’s not changing the culture, its protecting the community from predators. Boys will be boys, but they don’t become men unless they get their ass kicked in a way they’ll remember when they step out of line.
That’s why the Paterno thing was so nauseating, not to mention the pedophilia in the Catholic church. The psychos themselves were bad enough, but that wasn’t the worst thing. In both cases men failed at the core male duty – protecting their community from predators.
“Some women who go on and on about sexual assault need to realize that a guy being clumsy or obtuse while making out isn’t a crime, it just makes him bad in bed. They should move on and drop their victimhood complex.”
Scroll up and reread what Susan wrote. Trivino was not making out with someone.
” I like yoga, and I’ve had cougars touch my crotch while I was in a vulnerable position (headstand and headstand, where I couldn’t withdraw or do anything really). I complained, nothing was done about it. ”
Whoa there! Are you saying the yoga instructor touched your crotch while “adjusting your pose” or some other yoga student? In yoga everyone is on their own mat. To reach over and grab someones crotch would take a considerable effort and be noticed by everyone in the room.
What was the situation?
If it was a situation where another student reached over from her mat to grab your crotch then you should have very loudly and vocally shamed her in front of the entire class. If it was the instructor I would have made it very clear, very loudly, that she violated ethics, after which I would have walked straight out of her class. And you would be well within your rights to pursue a legal case.
Victims of sexual harrassement and assault really need to start asserting their rights – BOLDLY.
Desi, “That’s why the Paterno thing was so nauseating, not to mention the pedophilia in the Catholic church. The psychos themselves were bad enough, but that wasn’t the worst thing. In both cases men failed at the core male duty – protecting their community from predators.”
Would you believe that sphere blogs are blaming the Catholic priest pedophile cases on NUNS!?!?!?
Coach Parker: ““You can’t change the culture that’s evolved here; we’re not going to be able to step into people’s lives and change them drastically”
So if he were commanding a military unit characterized by indiscipline and cowardice under fire, would he just let it ride? If he were put in charge of a business where employees had a poor work ethic and significant numbers of them were committing fraud, would he just say there’s nothing that can be done about it?
Pathetic.
Humm. Athletes getting more sex than the vast majority of students in college, and a small minority of the athletes are assholes who have no respect for women, nothing new here. Still I am not surprised, the way athletes are coddled and catered to from little on, the entitlement mentality is a result with some of them. There were groupies then and there are groupies now. Even the non groupie women want a piece of a college athlete.
“Even the non groupie women want a piece of a college athlete.”
Well, Trivino met one that doesn’t. And if our system works, he’ll pay for it.
@Plain Jane
That survey was of 1,000 people on a prostitution site, i.e. Sugar daddy hookups.
Don’t waste our time PJ, this is trolling.
True! And if they go to prison, they can try out their moves on the men!
Uh, what about the girls WILLINGLY throwing themselves at these jocks, hmmmm?
@Herb
The hockey players are raping and otherwise sexually assaulting women. Do you consider this sexual success?
If so, are women unreasonable to call that “success” wrong?
BU did not launch an investigation or even reprimand students for naked skating and penalty box sex. They investigated rape.
Please clarify or qualify your statement.
Well, Trivino met one that doesn’t. And if our system works, he’ll pay for it.
As well he should. I really do not understand the mentality of my former peers and other men who think no doesnt mean no, or a hand wrapped around your wrist despirately pulling your hand away from her crotch isnt the same as NO!….
They got that education in middle and high school, in the form of sex ed. What’s occurring is a totally warped morality that has nothing to do with “knowledge” or education, and everything to do with believing you’re a superior human being, and therefore not subject to the normal rules of civilized behavior.
Yes I meant desPIRATEly
“That survey was of 1,000 people on a prostitution site, i.e. Sugar daddy hookups. ”
I didn’t realize it was a prostitution site per se, I don’t think it is.
You might be surprised how many regular, ordinary women (even single soccer moms) are willing to enter into agreements with men they find attractive, in exchange for monthly bills getting paid or whatever.
Its not viewed as prostitution nor would I call it such. Its a relationship with human feelings involved where the wealthier of the two is contributing financially in an effort to help the less abundant out.
Such relationships also take place with the genders reversed.
Just sayin’
“Uh, what about the girls WILLINGLY throwing themselves at these jocks, hmmmm?”
What about them? They are not taking him to court, obviously. The RA is.
“They got that education in middle and high school, in the form of sex ed. ”
We get educated in math in middle school too, but its still taught in college. I don’t know that middle and high schools teach the intricacies of sexual assault laws, in fact I know they aren’t. There are tiny details that both potential victims and potential assailants, as well as potential victims of false allegations would do well to learn for their own legal protection.
I know I want to know all legal details in this regard for my own protection and if I were a man I’d still want to know, perhaps even more.
“The teams have a small but ardent set of groupies who offer sexual favors”
Does anyone know why a woman would behave like this with college athletes? Persumably these women have some smarts because they were accepted at a college. What do they get out of it but lousy drunken sex and disrespect?
When I first read about Karen Owen I found her so pathetic. Did any of the guys she slept with, actually any of the college guys, feel any affection towards her? Did any of them remember her birthday, ever give her flowers or show they were proud to be with her when they were sober? It seems a sad and lonely way to spend four years.
Or is romance dead?
“Does anyone know why a woman would behave like this with college athletes?
Or is romance dead?”
My guess is these are high-T women with raging libidos.
@Todd
Agreed, and that is my sense from the Penn stats too.
Agreed. I was discussing this with my husband, and I asked, “What is wrong with these parents? How did they raise sons who could behave this way?” He pointed out these kids are coddled by their parents as sports superstars from the age of 5. What these parents want more than anything else is to be able to say “My son is going to play in the NHL.” They want to bask in their kids’ reflected glory.
Yes, I share this view. That’s why I think these schools should have a zero tolerance policy, and kick these guys off the team and out of school at the first infraction.
The hockey team members have to sign a pledge to drink alcohol no more than once per week. Violating even that pledge is grounds for being kicked off the team. In fact, the kid who was accused of raping two women after a game was kicked off the team for being drunk when arrested, not for the rapes themselves. How upside down is that?
PJ,
My point is why aren’t the GIRLS re-educated about sexual matters? Why do the guys have to go to this re-education class, be bashed and trashed, and indoctrinated with what brutes they are, while the girls don’t get called out on THEIR bad behavior? Why is that? Ah, but we can’t criticize the saintly, perfect, divine goddesses now, can we?
MarkyMark
People are bashing these athletes because these are the ONLY guys who get anything CLOSE to the special treatment that women get. Can’t have that now! Only chicks get pussy passes…
@Anon
OK, full disclosure. One of my focus group girls was targeted by Corey Trivino when she was a senior and he was a sophomore. He zeroed in on her at T’s, and then at a party afterwards. She made out with him, but declined to take it further or leave with him. He literally would not take no for an answer. He did not believe she could possibly be serious or sincere. He got very pushy in front of everyone at the party, to no avail. After that, he seemed to view her as “the one that got away.” Any time he saw her on campus, he grabbed and embraced her, tried to get her to come out, etc.
These guys don’t want the same old groupies that every team member has been with ten times. They’re on the prowl for fresh meat and new challenges, and they think they’re sex gods.
“My point is why aren’t the GIRLS re-educated about sexual matters? Why do the guys have to go to this re-education class, be bashed and trashed, and indoctrinated with what brutes they are, while the girls don’t get called out on THEIR bad behavior? Why is that? Ah, but we can’t criticize the saintly, perfect, divine goddesses now, can we?”
Marky Mark, can you please provide us with one example of a sexual re-education program that says “all men are evil rapists”? Because that is the claim about these programs that is constantly being made by men here and on the sphere blogs. Have these men ever undergone such a course or seminar or are they just assuming? If they’ve undergone one such as that then they could provide us with links and videos to the content.
Its obvious that there is confusion amongst men about what legally constitutes sexual assault. Hell, all you have to do is read this thread and see all the comments blurring consensual and non-consensual, like “what about all the women who WILLINGLY engage these brutes” etc.
Again, that’s CONSENSUAL. Consensual sex between adults is not illegal. Consensual sex is not rape.
I can’t believe this even has to be explained to readers here at HUS.
What gives?
They’re on the prowl for fresh meat and new challenges, and they think they’re sex gods.
According to YOUR charts, they are sex gods! Chicks are throwing themselves at these guys; they ARE getting laid like tile. Why? Because they’re HIGH STATUS GUYS-duh! So, when a minority of girls turn them down, of course they can’t believe it, because it so seldom happens to them.
Look at Karen Owen, who a previous commenter mentioned. Then, go look at the guys she slept with. ALL of them-without exception-were athletes or other big men on campus; none of them were physics nerds, computer geeks, etc. I rest my case.
Good catch! Perhaps it was worded to ask if you have had sex, did you ever have it drunk? Frankly, I find it hard to believe that anyone who has had sex has not had it drunk. In college, at least half the sex I had was drunk, even though it was only with two guys.
Re jock-groupies, etc….”My guess is these are high-T women with raging libidos.”
Some of them, probably. But I bet a lot of them are motivated more by status among their peers, boredom with their everyday lives, etc.
PJ,
Uh, you do remember the little stunt that University of Maryland pulled in the 1990s, don’t you? They had posters up all over campus that listed all the male students. What did these posters say? That these were all potential rapists! Why don’t the girls get pulled aside and told that, if they don’t behave, dress, and comport themselves as sluts, that they’re less likely to be TREATED like sluts?! Again, we cannot criticize the goddesses of the world, can we?
It’s a truism that, if you want to know who holds power in a society, just look at who cannot be criticized. Chicks (even adult women) go around with shirts saying that boys are stupid, throw rocks at them; that’s okay. However, if a guy even insinuates that a female is anything less than perfect, why he’s jerk, a low life, etc.; oftentimes, he’ll lose his job. I’ve heard women at offices where I worked in the past bash and trash men all day, but any guy who even hinted that women weren’t perfect were punished. Don’t you dare tell me that women don’t get special treatment in this society; don’t tell me that!
You’re a man hating feminist who is in capable of empathizing with men. I am through pointing out the obvious to you. It must be nice to be the PRIVILEGED sex in this society…
“Agreed. I was discussing this with my husband, and I asked, “What is wrong with these parents? How did they raise sons who could behave this way?” He pointed out these kids are coddled by their parents as sports superstars from the age of 5. What these parents want more than anything else is to be able to say “My son is going to play in the NHL.” They want to bask in their kids’ reflected glory.”
I saw a movie based on a true story about a group of high school atheletes who gang raped a learning impaired student by pretending to want to be her friends and luring her into a basement. The girl was mentally retarded and very confused. The parents KNEW their sons did it but took no compassion for the girl and did everything in their power to get their sons off, and I think it worked for most or all of them.
The boys’ female friends (cheerleaders) also helped by trying to convince the poor girl that she not only wanted it, but planned it herself!
We’re facing a planetary ecological problem with human over population. These types should be the first to go.
The problem with almost all reports of sexual assault on campus are that they are “he said, she said.” For this reason, guys are actually very rarely disciplined. I recall reading an article about BU a couple of years ago, and only 10% of cases led to any disciplinary action at all.
What constitutes sexual assault, especially on college campi? Whatever the woman SAYS it is-duh! If she points the finger, the guy is toast-end of story. Remember the Duke LAX team? Remember the boys at Hofstra? That happens every day at America’s colleges and universities. They’ve become hostile to men, then people wonder why men are a MINORITY there these days. Come on! You make a place that unwelcome for men, they’ll tend to avoid it-duh.
80% of amateur porn uploaded online is done without the woman’s knowledge.
Women should never agree to be filmed during sex. Sorry, guys, but I am actually aware of one case where a male saw his female neighbor on a porn site, and finally told her. She’d had no idea.
“Why don’t the girls get pulled aside and told that, if they don’t behave, dress, and comport themselves as sluts, that they’re less likely to be TREATED like sluts?! ”
The RA was in her room and doing her job (that’s why she slightly opened the door when she heard banging). How is that “comporting oneself like a slut”?
” Chicks (even adult women) go around with shirts saying that boys are stupid, throw rocks at them; that’s okay. However, if a guy even insinuates that a female is anything less than perfect, why he’s jerk, a low life, etc.; ”
Puh-leeze. There’s a calendar for sale at Barnes and Noble and every month has a cartoon making fun of girls and women saying stuff like “girls are stupid throw rocks at them”. I was shocked because I had never seen (and still have not) the T-shirt that says “boys are stupid, throw rocks at them”.
Trivino committed assault. Stop trying to justify it.
@Herb
Your comment linking to the Yale Daily News is so valuable. Clipped for future reference, thank you.
Trevino is said to have committed assault because a chick SAID he did-end of story.
Apparently, at all the Ivies, the hockey team has the lowest GPA of any sport. At BU, they routinely let in guys with terrible grades and SAT scores. Until the university disallowed it recently, a lot of the team took adult ed courses at night rather than regular college courses. These guys are dumb as pucks. BU doesn’t feel sheepish about that.
“Sorry, guys, but I am actually aware of one case where a male saw his female neighbor on a porn site, and finally told her. She’d had no idea.”
Susan, just a tip. Never start a sentence with “sorry”. In frame control theory (which as a blog mistress you control the frame around here) you never apologize for a personal opinion or fact.
Actually this is taught in debate also. Its a hard habit to break and I find myself starting comment with “sorry” and then remember and go back and delete that word.
You only want to use it in a playful manner, like when joking with little kids.
“Apparently, at all the Ivies, the hockey team has the lowest GPA of any sport. ”
The HBDers refuse to believe that because, you know, hockey players look different than basketball players. Ahem, cough.
PJ,
What about the chicks who ARE throwing themselves at the hockey players? Why do all BU men have to go through this re-education BS, while the women on campus get nothing said to them about THEIR conduct, hmmm? You still have not answered my question! Aren’t you feminazis always saying that it takes TWO to tango, hmmm? Does that not mean that women are involved in these sexual imbroglios too? Why do they not receive any sex re-education when they’re PART of the problem? Again, it’s because we cannot criticize the privileged, divine goddesses in our mist-the modern woman.
Like a typical woman and feminist (redundant?), you keep trying to change the subject, ignore logical and factual points, etc. You still haven’t commented on the Duke LAX case, the Hofstra matter, or what UMD did in the 1990s. Why was that all right?
MarkyMark
@Joe
I totally get what you are saying, but in this case, normal is the norm. The middle of the bell curve. That said, you make a valid point. 6 partners has to be at least one SD from the mean. It’s just that from reading and hearing about hookup culture, you’d think any athlete worth his salt was getting laid by someone new every month. Which would bring him to 48 in 4 years. Either a lot of those guys don’t want it, or get shot down more than we might think.
Re jock-groupies, etc….”My guess is these are high-T women with raging libidos.”
David Foster, “Some of them, probably. But I bet a lot of them are motivated more by status among their peers, boredom with their everyday lives, etc.”
Probably ALL of them. I was horny as hell between 18 and 24, but my character, values and to an extent my religion and culture kept me from acting on it. So here you have young horny women who are popular and have access to men they find highly attractive, with no internal values or external religion or culture to prevent them from having orgies, of course they will act out their natural sex drives. Why not?
Consensual sex between adults, even groups of them, is legal so where’s the problem?
Mrs. Walsh,
These athletes are getting laid like tile. They’re called BMOC for a reason…
MarkyMark
“What about the chicks who ARE throwing themselves at the hockey players? ”
Assaulting them? If you read my earlier comments I support our right to bear arms and protect ourselves against violence. Barring that, male victims of sexual assault should call the police, just like female victims should.
Please scroll up and read my comment to the guy who’s crotch got grabbed in a yoga class. I do not hold men and women to two different standards.
“You still haven’t commented on the Duke LAX case”
It got thrown out!!!!
That’s my point: these assault cases, including the falsely allegated ones, deserve their day in court. Campus committees got no business trying to “mediate” crimes!
PJ,
The only reason the Duke LAX case got thrown out was because the boys were from well heeled families. They spent MILLIONS in their defense! If they’d been average guys of average means, they’d have been railroaded, big time. There is no day in court for most victims of false rape allegations. Women have the power to destroy a man just by pointing the finger in his direction. The fact that women: 1) agitated for laws like this; and 2) don’t cry out against their sisters doing this sort of thing speaks to women’s ‘morality’-or lack thereof.
MarkyMark
MarkyMark
PJ,
Are you as dumb as rock?! Do you not know what the expression ‘throwing herself at a man’ means? It does NOT mean assault-sheesh! It simply means that she passionately initiated or tried to initiate a sexual liaison; it means that the girl basically put up a neon sign saying she wanted to bang a particular guy. Why do the BU girls not get re-educated in how, if they don’t want a ONS they’ll regret, they need to refrain from saying and doing certain things? Why have you REFUSED to address that, hmmm? It’s because you have no point, Darlin’; it’s because you are wrong! But, being a modern, American woman, you cannot entertain, let alone admit, that this is a possibility-especially when a MAN (i.e. me) is involved…
MarkyMark
” It simply means that she passionately initiated or tried to initiate a sexual liaison; it means that the girl basically put up a neon sign saying she wanted to bang a particular guy. ”
Does leaning in for a kiss count? I’ve done that several times with no intention of banging the guy right there and then.
But again, I ask, “what about it”? If the guys doesn’t want to kiss her he can turn away, walk away, say no, etc. If he wants to kiss her back, he can. They can proceed to make out and if things go beyond what EITHER partner wants, both can JUST SAY NO.
Saying no conveys to the other your boundaries, and if the other is not a criminal, he or she will stop. Where’s the problem?
PJ,
The problem is YOUR STUPIDITY. Anyone who thinks that the expression ‘throwing herself at him’ connotes assault can’t be too terribly bright! I’m through trying to have a discussion with you. At least you reminded me why it’s POINTLESS to discuss or argue anything with a woman…
MarkyMark
Marky Mark, again I ask, “WHAT ABOUT those women that throw themselves at those guys?”
“But, being a modern, American woman”
Yes and no. This is the (post) modern era and I am an American citizen but I reject much of maintream American culture because it is not the culture I was raised with, and many what is typically considered “American values” conflict with my own. I find many of them to be quite uncivilized, degraded and crass, to be honest.
“Anyone who thinks that the expression ‘throwing herself at him’ connotes assault can’t be too terribly bright!”
Forgive me, but I’ve never “thrown” myself at anyone nor have I witnessed anyone from my culture do so. We were discussing the alleged Tirvino assault case and you asked, “what about the women who throw themselves at these guys” so I assumed (obviously wrongly) that you were countering with another hypothetical example of unwanted sexual advances.
So again, I’ll ask, what about the women who do that? Do you think its wrong or right for them to “throw themselves” at men they are attracted to? And what exactly do they have to do with the alleged assault case of a woman who was not throwing herself at him?
There is another side to the story isn’t there ? And that story is found in the workplace :
And this from Jezebel no less :
And from this article’s comment thread :
Also this :
From Marie Claire
And there’s more :
So here are a few questions :
1) Is it safe to say that F2M (female to male) sexual harassment occurs
via older women on younger more vulnerable men ?
2) Has F2M got anything to do with testosterone levels in women ?
3) Has F2M got anything to do with fighting the ‘patriarchy’ ?
4) Has F2M got anything to do with some women not having a feminine version of ‘Game’ to pick up men ?
In the last question, consider this article from Jezebel :
And if the comments are read, one cannot help but wonder if this woman is a potential F2M :
@SW
Bingo, thanks. I think I pointed this out twice to Pain Jane, but she seems too busy drinking draino on Planet Chomsky. Whenever alcoholic ambiguity is present and there are no other witnesses, it will boil down to “she said/he said”. The victim’s story is severely weakened, and the burden of proof is still on the prosecution.
In this case, Trivino plead guilty to 2 counts of assault and battery and 1 count of trespassing, and got probation (no jail time). It wasn’t just the RA who said he did it, he admitted as much himself in criminal court. He also confessed to having alcohol problems (shocker). Other students may have seen and heard him, since he went to her room THREE times. And he actually tried to flee the dorm (drunk), but got into the same elevator the police came up in. When they asked what his dorm room number was, he gave hers. No ambiguity here, he pretty much supplied the prosecution with their entire case.
Apparently, at all the Ivies, the hockey team has the lowest GPA of any sport.
This is because teams like Harvard are hockey Division I and are often nationally ranked. These are serious programs that attract future pros. The Ivy football programs don’t (except for Stanford football).
But the “lowest ranked” sports team at Harvard SAT-wise would probably be the highest ranked at any non-Ivy. They aren’t dumb guys.
BU is one scale step down, but they also aren’t dumb. I guarantee you that the BU hockey team would out-test the Michigan State football team or the Kentucky basketball team. They just test lower than other BU students; but, then, the entire student body of most state schools would test lower than that group of students.
And I say that as a former BC guy and thus a hater of all things BU.
Lots of universities now consider sex with either (or both) parties drunk sexual assault on the man’s part
All they’re going to accomplish by this is making men extremely cynical about the rape laws overall – which should be the last thing they want.
Obviously if you have sex with someone who has drunk themselves unconscious, it’s rape. But you will never convince me that sex with someone who is conscious, but merely drunk, is rape. It’s a completely false and ideologically motivated model of consent that’s just bullshit. I would submit that if you have sex with someone drunk who you wouldn’t have sex with sober, the drunk you is the real you and your drunk decision is your genuine decision, and it’s the sober you that’s a calculated and inauthentic lie. I’d also submit that the entire reason most people drink when they socialize (particularly on campus) is because they want to become the drunk version of themselves, because they recognize that’s their genuine self, and they are seeking the catharsis of dispensing with their sober selves for a while.
@Plain Jane
Just stop linking to publicintegrity.org. You’ve made the same point a dozen times. I’ve never even heard of Portland College. Many more prestigious institutions are biased against males.
I cannot imagine what the RA was thinking, in her dorm room, sober. Didn’t she know that Corey Trivino would want to hook up with her when the bars closed? What the hell was she thinking? She should have sexiled herself preemptively. If she had any sense, she would spend her weekend nights in the dorm lobby trying to sleep, because everyone knows that spending time in your own room is a clear invitation for sexual assault. I mean, come on! In her room sober at midnight on a weekend? That’s tantamount to saying, “Corey Trivino, rape me now!”
” The problem with almost all reports of sexual assault on campus are that they are “he said, she said.” For this reason, guys are actually very rarely disciplined.
Bingo, thanks. I think I pointed this out twice to Pain Jane, but she seems too busy drinking draino on Planet Chomsky”
Megaman,
SIGH (not Sai). I have REPEATEDLY said here that the way to avoid he said/she said is to go through legal channels, call police, hire a lawyer and slap the offender with a court case. I said that this would ALSO SERVE TO DETER FALSE ALLEGATIONS because everyone knows that to stand up in a court of law you need more than just he said/she said.
SIGH (not Sai). I have REPEATEDLY said here that the way to avoid he said/she said is to go through legal channels, call police, hire a lawyer and slap the offender with a court case.
I totally agree.
It’s actually kind of farcical that universities pretend to be little cities in the first place. They shouldn’t have their own cops, and they shouldn’t have kangaroo courts.
You’d think the universities would want to be out of the law enforcement business altogether. Then no one can accuse them of not doing enough about these issues any more.
@Mr. Nervous Toes
I find this extremely credible. I just don’t think most people can objectively consider the idea that some men don’t want to be “handled” by a stranger.
@Tom
What is your support for this claim?
I wonder if Trivino got it through a legacy admission, because his intelligence was certainly lacking.
Nah, if he were a legacy, he wouldn’t bother to do a sport. Those guys just hang around the frat house and drink. I’d bet that he was an atheletic “scholar.” The academic standards are lower for them.
@ Susan
Definitely cosigned.
” While I had her she was already one of the most powerful teachers in the school (she was an excellent Latin teacher which is rare enough to be highly valued) and students feared her because she based her punishments on how much she liked you. ”
You mean she meted out the severest punishments to students she liked best?! Sounds like a Dominitrix.
Marellus, the bottom line is that many pubescent and teen boys would consider themselves “lucky” to be molested by a hot teacher. And those that don’t like it, still others boys will be jealous and think they’re “gay” for not feeling lucky.
Just see all the comments from grown men, many of them fathers themselves, regarding the case of that one young hot blonde teacher who did jail time for it.
Then you’ve got that case where the boy actually MARRIED and impregnated his teacher while she was serving time in jail for molesting him!!!!
Movies have been made about both these cases.
@Marky Mark
Do you believe that there is a group of women at BU that gets more special treatment than hockey players? Who are these women? What kind of special treatment do they receive? How does it trump men getting away with rape?
@Marky Mark
Are you saying that the most sexually successful men should be held to a different standard?
He pled guilty.
@Marky Mark
That hurts my feelings.
“… Women, says Soul, “should forgo aggression, and instead create a “window of opportunity” for men to initiate a connection.” If Game is about identifying prey and dragging it back to your lair, Girl Game is about identifying yourself as prey. Which doesn’t sound like much fun.”
Honestly? Sounds a lot funner than being the predator, but I don’t agree with Soul here simply because there are A LOT of genuinely shy guys out there who will not approach or make the first move. I would never have dated a few of the really good guys I did if I simply “created a window of oppurtunity” and left it at that. I DID create the window and they didn’t crawl in. I had to be the one to talk first.
I mean come on, when even PUA GURUS are behaving like this;
” I work at a bookstore where we are a training ground for pick up artists groups (yes, they give classes and take field trips). One night the leader was finished tutoring some young guy and I walked up to him (the leader) and started flirting with him. I have never seen a man so startled by an attractive woman feigning interest before. My co-workers couldn’t stop laughing at his reaction.
He still comes in with his tour group but avoids me like the plague.”
You really think regular ol’ shy guys are going to jump through the “window of oppurtunity?
By the way, one of the most famous and richest PUAs in the business was notorious for never doing in field during workshops because he had never actually “picked up” a woman! That’s right, none of his students ever say him approach a woman. He just delivered content in the form of e-books and seminars and made a ton of bank, but he never did actual pick up.
The bottom line is that most men, even so-called PUA gurus, are terribly insecure around women, especially ones they are attracted to, and its not uncommon for us to have to make some sort of bold move like being the first to say hi, introduce ourselves and strike up a convo. Standing there and smiling only works with a minority of guys.
This is really funny.
Try to put these two images side by side in your head, which is more outrageous:
1. A belligerent asshole repeatedly tries to grope a woman. He can’t believe she doesn’t want him, because he doesn’t normally get that reaction. He has made a crass and willful mistake.
2. Hordes of grown women acting like animals in heat, having orgies and giving themselves up like prostitutes for the exact same guy.
And you girls are outraged at point number 1! Ha!
Plainjane, I can tell from your false bravado you’ve clearly never been the victim of sexual harassment yourself. For the record, the fun occurred because we were partnering up to do inversions, and my cougar ‘friend’ decided I was going to be her partner. I didn’t think much of it, until she pushed herself into me. It’s a slow burn thing, where you don’t feel violated right away. It’s more like, what the? Wait a second? Then guilt kicks in and you’re not really sure what to do. She had maximum plausible deniability, so there’s no way I would have made a scene. And yes, thank you for trying to further shame me for not instantly objecting. She would have instantly denied it, and thanks to the hamster wheel, she would probably honestly not feel she had done anything wrong. In any event, I got revenge on her didn’t I? She wanted to sleep with me, and I rejected her utterly. I can think of no bigger blow to a women’s ego than for her to offer herself to a man unconditionally and him to be completely disinterested.
The same thing happens in bars, although it’s usually boobs in the back or a little squeeze of the ass. Women get horny all the time but they always try to make sure they can deny their interest if you call them on it. For example, my rather frumpy and older apartment neighbor has knocked on my door three times now at midnight looking for ‘a drink’ (aka casual sex). Now, if I told her, I’m not into casual sex (and she really is not attractive), she would immediately deny that sex was on her mind. Afterall, she was just trying to be friendly! Women can be quite scary/creepy when they’re in the hypergamous mood, but don’t you dare point that out to them! It’s the hamster wheel in action. Act, but create plausible deniability.
I’m somewhat autistic (30/50 on the Cambridge Psychology scale, which is sub-clinical) , and for whatever reason I seem to have a very feminine approach to mate selection. When it comes to sex signals though, I think I’m a lot better than average on figuring out what’s a legit show of interest and what’s just being friendly. I’m slow, because I process everything in my conscious mind, but I notice women initiating all the time. Women initiate a lot more than the angry guys in the manosphere would have you believe, it’s just their actions don’t make it past the subconscious filters most neurotypical people have. Whenever I put on a dominate performance in athletics, I find friendly women approaching me. I have no doubt that’s also what occurred at BU. It’s not the male atheletes’ fault these women are offering themselves to them: women are biologically compelled to offer themselves to these men, and the men are biologically compelled to screw them. A better question is, why does the USA university community offer such attractive sports scholarships to every ridiculous sport in existence?
My guess is these are high-T women with raging libidos.
One thing I’ve noticed in working with teens is that the female atheletes tend to go after the male athletes. Many of them are look very high-T, and go for the thuggiest of the jocks. I picture Jessica Schairer of the NY Times article as having been one of those girls.
I hate to step into a Roissy trope, but I’ve seeen this one happen IRL. Of course, the jocks attract the feminine gals as well.
@J
It’s true in elite college athletics as well. I think the male athletes are on board. Hockey kids hook up. Lacrosse kids hook up. Soccer kids hook up.
Mr Toes,
“Plainjane, I can tell from your false bravado you’ve clearly never been the victim of sexual harassment yourself. ”
Oh, believe me I have. I travel the globe frequently and there are some places where SH is off the chain.
“For the record, the fun occurred because we were partnering up to do inversions, and my cougar ‘friend’ decided I was going to be her partner. I didn’t think much of it, until she pushed herself into me. It’s a slow burn thing, where you don’t feel violated right away. It’s more like, what the? Wait a second? Then guilt kicks in and you’re not really sure what to do. ”
Wow, Toes, I’m impressed. You describe it PERFECTLY. Its interesting that a man has felt the exact same thing as I and many other women have felt and can describe it so well.
I find it hard to believe that anyone who has had sex has not had it drunk. In college, at least half the sex I had was drunk, even though it was only with two guys.
I’ve never had drunken sex, not even with my husband, who will not participate if I am drunk. I’m not a great drinker. A litle goes a long way with me; I nearly ruined an anniversary by drinking too much champagne.
Casual sex and alcohol don’t mix IMHO. This “I was to drunk to know if I got raped/raped somebody” stuff is the equivalent of flashing your cash in a bad neighborhood.
Friends don’t let friends screw drunk.
LMAO at post #132 though.
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