Women today don’t understand femininity very well. It’s a dirty secret from the patriarchal past, and it’s been mostly successfully scrubbed from our consciousness by gender-bending feminists. This loss is mourned by men, who desperately seek feminine women. At the same time, the denial of biological sex differences has affected them as well, as male behavior and nature is routinely shamed in our culture. The end result of this disastrous social experiment is a masculinized female population and a feminized male population. This is not conducive to happy mating.
Recently, reader Sai expressed her bafflement at what femininity is supposed to look like:
When I spent way too long Googling “how do girls act”/”what are girls like” I knew I had a problem.
I don’t want to completely morph into a touchy-feely mother to all living things. I’m honestly still not sure what I’ll gain from this -the visual component is seriously lacking, which is why I saw no point in being that sort of girl -or even where to start. But I am curious, and I often see gals who don’t like how the sexes currently interact being exhorted to act more girly.
Susan Brownmiller, in her 1984 book Femininity, described it as “whimsy, unpredicability, emotional patterns of thinking and behavior, including tearful expressions of sentiment and fear.” She noted that all of these behaviors lie “outside the established route to success.”
Laura Kipnis wrote in Slate that “Femininity is a system that tries to secure advantages for women, primarily by enhancing their sexual attractiveness to men. It also shores up masculinity through displays of feminine helplessness or deference. But femininity depends on a sense of female inadequacy to perpetuate itself.”
This is what the French call “la difference.” What’s important to note is that both sexes are happiest when women are feminine and men are masculine. Previously, I’ve attempted to describe femininity in all its aspects, but today I want to focus on just one part of it – perhaps the most important part. It has nothing to do with appearance, tone of voice, or mannerisms. We need to shift our way of thinking to acknowledge sex differences, and how the sexes, though different, can complement one another perfectly when we’re honest about the different wants and needs of men and women. In my opinion, this complementarity is a key part of successful relationships and, ultimately, marriage.
Principle #1
Women need men, and men need to be needed.
This is heresy to feminists. In that orthodoxy, the most shameful thing a woman can do is need or become dependent on a man. However, in the ancestral period women could not survive without men. Men provided food, shelter and protection, as well as strategic alliances and genes for offspring. Women were attracted to men who could provide these things, and sought qualities in mates that signaled the ability to accumulate resources and the temperament to share them.
Today, women don’t really need men to provide food and shelter. In large cities, 20-something women make 120% of what their male peers earn. This trend will continue as women represent 60% of college graduates in this country, even though many of those women will not enter high-paying professions.
We do still need men to protect us, however. Despite an increased number of females in the police force and military, there’s a reason why Navy SEALS are male, why men do most of the heavy lifting and building of construction projects, and why men perform the most dangerous jobs in our economy.
Taking it to the personal level, what woman does not love being enveloped by strong male arms in a protective embrace? I rely on my husband to be stoic, strong and efficient in all manner of mini domestic crises. When there’s a hurricane coming, a bat in the house, or strange sounds in the night, he embraces the risk. He mans the grill. He is a rock during the emotional upheavals that occur in all families. He provides for our family.
Not surprisingly, when he acts out his male role in this way, I feel attracted to him. I communicate appreciation, my comfort in depending on him, and express physical affection. Both parties are rewarded, both win. That can’t happen if I refuse to need a man, or refuse to accomodate his need to be needed.
Principle #2
Women want to nurture, and men want to be nurtured.
This too is heresy to feminists, as it supposes that women live to serve men. In fact, women serve male needs for nurturance in the same way that men serve female needs for provisioning. Men and women are happiest when we gladly give and receive what the other has to offer.
If men evolved to provide shelter and food, then women evolved to make that shelter and food experience as pleasing and comfortable as possible. (If you don’t want to cook for a man, you’re missing a great opportunity to nurture your partner and your relationship.) Of course, there are many other ways to do this as well. Caring about a man’s feelings, demonstrating loyalty, and expressing love and desire are all excellent ways to nurture a man.
Female nurturance does not preclude male nurturance, nor does needing a man mean he won’t need you back. Just the opposite is true. When we need and nurture our partners, we become stronger, and we invite them to need and nurture us back.
Long live sex differences.
Needing and nurturing, embraced by women, and freely welcomed by men. That’s one thing we can all do right now to improve our dysfunctional SMP.
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Well, I ran my simplistic little activities-based mating preferences continuum by my students the other nights. To briefly recap, the continuum goes from 1-10.
-Lifestyle activities 1-3 are heavily weighted towards strength, athleticism, and other jock traits involved in sports dominance, heavy lifting, outdoor work, physical protection, and so on.
-Activities 4-7 are weighted towards normal domestic life—having dinner together, cuddling on the couch watching TV, going to work, paying bills, taking care of the lawn, etc.
-Activities 8-10 are weighted towards glamorous, short-term events like exotic trips, culture vulture activities, high-end partying, and expensive gifts.
THE GUESS: My suspicion was that young undergrad women are less concerned about finding a man who specializes in the 4-7 niche, because they believe that they will have good jobs and will be able to handle that stuff themselves. This would have consequences for typical beta males, since the “relationship-ready”/high-domesticity status of the beta is meant to excel in the 4-7 environment. He has the skillset of a patient, family-oriented “helpmate”.
We might say that the institution of marriage itself is meant to be an efficient, secure way of dealing with 4-7, particularly when kids are involved.
However, when normal domestic requirements are assumed to be well-covered by the woman’s independent means, edu, and career, she might see an attractive man as offering the caveman/physical tough guy stuff (1-3), the exciting $$ romance stuff (8-10), or a man who offers some combination of both of the above.
THE RESPONSE. The women in class essentially agreed with the hypothesis. The beta value proposition currently seems like an answer in search of a question, at least for many of them (“I don’t need a man for that, plus he’d just leave the toilet seat up”).
There was a notable exception, and this was a girl who said that she might like to have the option to leave her career track and concentrate on being a mom, in which case she would in fact depend on per partner for the normal day-to-day 4-7 stuff. She found the “beta” type traits attractive for this reason.
The other women stated no ambition to leave their career tracks under any circumstances, and several thought that doing so made no sense due to their education investment, ideals, difficulty getting re-started later, fears of being economically reliant on a man, etc.
A few women said that they are increasingly giving up on the jet-set fantasy-romance of 8-10 because the men who are capable of delivering it only seem to want young hot girls. They think that this guy is most prone to trading in for a newer model every few years and probably the most psychologically vicious.
So an interesting thing here is that the same women who almost unanimously state an interest in getting married (they pretty much all say this) are simultaneously stating a lack of interest in the men who are probably best-adapted to the day-to-day realities of domesticated life, in favor of the extremes: a hot Adonis with a six-pack or an affluent, stylish globetrotter/bon vivant with a discretionary budget for luxury goods and fine dining (or, ideally, a man who has both).
Are there any other options? What about the quarter of the female population that graduates from college with their virginity intact?
I attended two weddings this summer, both pairs were betariffic.
Deti, I think you have a tendency to see things as much worse than they really are. I don’t think things are great – but your doomsday scenario just doesn’t ring true to me.
Granted, I restrict myself to college graduates, but since they represent a large chunk of the population, I’m not sure why your analysis doesn’t reflect them. What am I missing here?
I wouldn’t mind being Henry Higgins for a day. Actually, I would LOVE to have a penis for a day.
Admittedly I’m commenting on this without having read the Kate Bollick article, but could it just be that she’s trying to make the best of the situation she’s in? I mean it doesn’t make her a terrible person does it, for just allowing herself to be happy and content with the rest of her life? I know if it were my lot I wouldn’t want to flagellate myself forever.
@Bastiat Blogger
Oh, hell, I could have told you that. Even non-college education women who have beat the median income once will, when dating the six-pack Adonis and the six-figure banker who you’re planning to move in with (and texted about needing a sectional sofa for the living room of the house…note house when you both in live apartments now) when a wedding comes up (you know, where showing off is more important than income) it’s not the banker you take.
After all, you pay your own bills (and the lifestyle bump you’re anticipating next year is just his generosity).
Nice to see a few get the exploitation fantasy works both ways…having a sugar daddy means you have to be arm candy.
@susan
“What about the quarter of the female population that graduates from college with their virginity intact? ”
What a bunch of stuck-up frigid bitches.
@Ms. Walsh #451:
“Eh, I have no problem with this”
O: No doubt; but many, many Women DO “have a problem with this” – and it is indeed your concern, whether you like it or not. Many of those very Women are in this very forum, in fact.
“but that is not the motive behind many of the blogs in the ‘sphere. Or if it is, they’ve lost their way.”
O: I think I’m in a much better position to determine and expound, on what precisely, is the “mission” of the ‘sphere, than you, with all due respect; and as I’ve said on several occasions now, the “mission” is to get our voices heard, *our way*. You are living proof, that we have achieved this objective.
Period.
“Calls to repeal suffrage are common…”
O: Where? Has Welmer specifically said this, over at The Spearhead? What about Roosh? Or Roissy? Links to their posts, please? I’d surely would like to see them.
“and I’ve seen plenty of suggestions wishing women outright harm.”
O: Again, where? What major player in the Manosphere has made such suggestions?
“I’ve been threatened with physical violence before, which was very frightening given my writing under my real identity.”
O: Indeed, and I recall having to deal with such behavior in the form of a particularly uncivil commenter named Doug1, who wished you to be gangraped by a bunch of Black Men, although he didn’t quite use that term. I disposed of him with the quickness because such commentary is beyond the pale. But aside from that, again I ask – what major player in the Manosphere has said such things about you?
“If there is a valid message, it’s at least partially being obscured by loonies, and that really is a serious problem – for them.”
O: I respectfully disagree, especially given the fact that the Radical Feminists are at least as bad and it hasn’t hampered the overall aims of the movement, chief among them as getting their message out.
“By the way, Obs, quite a lot of the talk of the ‘sphere happens here because she ‘sphere inserts itself into the discussions. That’s not necessarily a bad thing, but your notion that women fall asleep at night stewing about the manosphere is way off, IMO. (Although it’s true of me. ) I think most women appreciate at least part of the message. The women here are def OK with Game when practiced ethically.”
O: Let’s address your statements above in turn.
1. As I’ve said before and I repeat now – I would love for you to “purge” your HUS again of ALL Male voices, just for the purpose of testing out my theory, which is, that the Manosphere’s meta-message is so compelling, that the ladies here couldn’t go 30 whole days without making reference to it. If you doubt me, then prove it. Put it to the acid test, and let’s find out…
2. There are quite a few Women here who do indeed have a problem with Game, and that’s regardless as to the “ethical intent” of it; for example, Ms. J has gone on record with stating that she has problems with the “authenticity” of Game, and she’s not alone; Ms. Iggles is another voice in opposition. The very idea of a Man learning behaviors once the preserve of Naturals is extraordinarily upsetting to many Women in ways I do not honestly think they honestly understand. I’ve written about this over at The Spearhead, in fact.
3. Moreover, while I do most definitely have my own Code that I adhere to, I find it deeply disengenuous when Women demand that I do so, *for their own benefit*. They, as a group, are in no position to lecture me or anyone else, given the fact that they are quite capable of a goodly bit of caprice themselves, and often get away with it. I do what I do for my own reasons; not because of anything else.
O.
@Susan
Did your input break down cause by SES? You keep pointing out that divorce is rare in the UMC but it’s also the UMC which is the source of most frivilous divorce stories.
Could we have a limited environment issue? If the UMC rarely divorces but has a significant fraction of the ELP divorces (for example, I consider mine an ELP even though I filed for it…she didn’t want to file because she liked using the “I’m your wife” claim to get crap from me and disrupt my moving on) that could lead to the picture of ELP being the major divorce style.
In my experience most of the ‘sphere that fixates on ELP is MC/UMC and has little recent or immediate experience of LC life (hell, I’m the only person in my family who has since WW2 and it upset my family greatly).
@deti
… and why is it, that such a simple task … is so hard ?
I wish I knew.
@unigirl
Making the best of bad choices is one thing. Trying to sell that outcome as “fabulous and you shouldn’t worry about making the same bad choices” to young women facing the ones you fucked up 10-15 years ago is different. That’s why I said she’s a snake oil salesman to women.
Instead of helping her peers who made similar mistakes while telling younger women to learn from her bad choices she’s trying to get young women to make the same bad choices to validate herself.
@BB
This is curious. When the much maligned Kate Bolick asked the women at my home whether they would prioritize career or family, 100% said family. Among these women:
A medical student.
An accountant.
An equities trader.
An elementary school teacher.
A physical therapist.
They attended Princeton, Middlebury, Duke and BU.
In addition, the Pew research on Millennials is pretty clear:
Other facts about Millennials:
“Personal” goals of getting married, having children or owning a home trump “professional” goals of becoming a manager, earning a certain salary or starting a business. (63% vs. 23%).
81% of Gen Y women plan to return to work after having children.
Research by the Families and Work Institute found that 50% of Gen Y (men and women) place higher priority on family than work, 37% place the same priority on their work and family, and only 13% place higher priority on work than their family.
A 2010 Pew Research Center study found that 52% of Gen Y polled thought being a good parent was of the utmost importance in life.
68% say becoming a mom is on their priority list.
A large number of Gen Y women are burning out on their careers by age 30. While 53% of corporate entry-level jobs are held by women, that number drops to 37% for middle-management.
http://www.hookingupsmart.com/2012/02/17/relationshipstrategies/millennials-and-marriage/
I don’t think your students are unusual, but they appear to be in the minority.
@Herb.
Doh.
… if you were a shrink, I bet them crazies would get cured as they walk INTO your office …
I present the Hideousness that is Kate Bolick:
But rest assured, this fellow would never stoop so low:
@Susan
As you’ve said in a different context in this thread, the best way to discern someones values is to watch their actions not their words.
If those women who talked to Bollick with you marry and start having kids before their fertility is dying then their actions will match their words. If they dump perfectly good men at 28 only to be suit shopping with them for their wedding a few years later then their actions do not match their words.
These women haven’t started to face the hard choice between fabulous, feminist dream and the hard work of starting and growing a family. One pays off now while the other won’t pay off until 10+ years in the future with lots of hard work in between and, as you love to point out, even finding “acceptable” partners (because heaven forbid they consider non-college men…what happened to the days when teachers and nurses married cops and factory workers?) will be rough and 2 of the 5 will probably fail (actually, with your guidance, if they are sincere, they’ll probably beat the averages).
I’m less interested in what they say then what they’ll do between now and 2020.
That’s certainly how she explained it to me. And she does flagellate herself in the article – she admits turning down a great offer when she was 28.
OK, great, as long as everyone is accounted for.
@Herb
I think Bollick is going to do what is BEST for her at all times. She wrote the article for husband shopping reasons. Got a deal for taking the other interpretation you and other women are taking and went for it and in a few years she will be getting married with all the money she is making. This was not a manifesto, they turned it into one like feminists love to do like reinterpreting Jezebel’s, Lilith’s Eve’s story for example. You are taking it as a war against men. Many women are already doing it what she has done and if some women are stupid enough to sign up for voluntary childlessness I’m sure an obscure cartoon from the 10′s would had been enough hamster’s food.
I do think that if a man wrote the same article he wouldn’t be celebrated except on the manosphere (see Mentu’s vasectomy post for example) but it doesn’t mean that everyone that writes an article has similar goals. Some people are just more sneaky than others, YMMV.
@Obsidian
I think you’re a wee bit out of date on the sphere. Roissy and Roosh are still front and center, and most people think of Game blogs more than MRA blogs. But the cast of characters has changed a lot. I won’t list them, but they’re easily enough identified. One way is to look for the “Evil Patriarchy” pentagram badge that represents Roosh’s official network of Game bloggers.
For violent loonies, you’ll find the crew at a blog named Dalrock is Exhibit A.
Look how fat her fingers are!!!
@Susan
Oh, is this a fun one:
1. It proves the patriarchy is still oppressing women and driving them out of the labor force (why don’t men burn out…it’s because the work place is hostile).
or
2. Maybe women need men for support more than they admit.
or
3. Suck it up ladies. You think men don’t want to quick working by then. Let me tell you at 29, when I left it, I was burned out on the job I spent most of my 20s in and trust me, your soul sucking cubicle job was in many ways (but not all) paradise compared to it.
or
4. Gee, might fertile women be happier, I don’t know, having babies?
@Marellus
If I had to name people who had a huge positive influence on my life my marriage councilor would be on the list. She wasn’t afraid to call either of us out on things. When my wife clearly wasn’t serious about working on the marriage she told me to get out. When I put up with stupid shit she ask things like, “would you like to lie on the floor and I can walk all over you too?” She never pulled punches and called them like she saw them.
IMHO councilor, shrink, spiritual advisor, ect all should have the courage to tell you that you’re being stupid and the willingness to up the ante until you hear it.
Herb,
I agree with you if that’s it, it’s just I wasn’t sure what had actually been said, maybe I should have a looksee, if she’d said if you do this that and the other then this will be the likely consequence, but also saying to other women in the same position who’ve maybe missed the boat with finding love and starting a family that yes it may not happen for you but you can still find happiness in other areas of your life then I don’t think that’s so bad
Susan, great point. I actually asked if “marriage” meant “family” and most said that it did—they wanted kids, they didn’t want to be spinsters, etc.
My guess is that the survey statement “family more important than work” may need additional granularity in future attempts to get a handle on the psychology of this demographic. It doesn’t seem to indicate the actual life choices that might reflect family vs. career tension, or the actual mate-selection process that is valuing some men as attractive and others as, apparently, gratuitous.
Perhaps a less-value-laden question might be, “Do you plan on leaving your career track and being an SAHM at any point?” The same woman who says “hell no!” to that might respond to a survey 15 minutes later and say that she thought family should be given priority over profession, simply because she rationalizes that maximizing household income would give the kids the best advantages.
It’s a real mess—I get completely contradictory statements from both sexes all the time. Hopefully future surveys will force more difficult decisions, compromises, active weighing of trade-offs, etc. If not, we’ll probably see young adults saying they want to save the world while making millions and being famous and dating/marrying hot people while having great kids in spiritually rich, non-materialistic careers featuring expensive gadgets and sports cars.
@Herb
I noted that in the post.
Well, girth is more important than length.
@Herb
Fair enough, but I was simply comparing the attitudes and intentions of those women with the attitudes and intentions of BB’s students.
@Ana
I just don’t get that. I’m not disagreeing but I read that article and I heard “entitlement princess”. I’m in the “she’s hideous” crew as far as looks. Although I don’t find her gorgeous, at least not in the Atlantic cover…the first picture Susan put up isn’t bad, she’s not my style. Someone mentioned Sara Rue up thread and I wanted to ask, “full sized curvy Sara, lost some weight but fun Sara, or the ‘ewe, eat a sandwich’ version I’ve seen lately” (same response to Renee Zellweger, Bridget Jones Renee is yummy, Down with Love Renee is cute, but Chicago ‘tendons in my neck’ Renee is no thank you)…but hey, different people different loves.
I do think she’s a ugly and pretty clueless person. While claiming to know she made mistakes she didn’t get her ex’s fiancée was laughing at her and rubbing her nose in her stupidity. She’s willing to throw young women overboard to sooth her ego. If the Atlantic article wasn’t full throated I have no doubt “Sex and the City 2: Who Needs a Mr. Big” will be.
To be honest, I think it’s a war against women more than men. They’ll take my ‘sphere card for this, but I think in the long run living off transfers from men they don’t know hurts women (not to even mention their children) then the men who are fleeced to provide it. Men can avoid the fleecing more than women can avoid the need. As people like to point out here, need is never appealing. Having lived in neighborhoods where I was the one employed person on the block (or me and my roommate sometimes) those aren’t happy lives of “women striving together” Bollick’s article not withstanding.
What really pisses me off is the UMC readers who fall for it will be lonely cat ladies, but the UMC sets the tone for culture. Many MC and LC women will take Bollick’s cues and being a cat lady is the least of their worries.
I’m not in the “she’s hideous” crew as far as looks.
@SW
The most striking aspect of this place is that it really does boil down to Men vs. Women, for the most part. Except that the roles seem to be reversed. You spend a lot of your spare time doing homework and presenting facts and evidence that support your positions, which show a lot of preconceptions are probably bunk. And the counter-argument pretty consistently is: your evidence and interpretations are bunk. Not exactly an environment for clarity and understanding, let alone a consensus on much of anything.
For the record, I need my wife, though I can’t recall whether I’ve ever told her that verbally. Probably not. She on the other hand has told on several occassions that if I suddenly disappeared from her life, she literally wouldn’t know what to do from that point on. Oneitis? I don’t think so…
I’m curious! Who might that be?
Steve Sailer.
Here is a link to a recent post that someone like you (with a background, or, at least interest, in Finance): http://isteve.blogspot.com/2012/09/the-weather-man-is-not-moron.html
====================================
Your dry sense of humor really tickles my funny bone.
Well, now I really feel like a dick for being a dick.
BTW, I remember you were the first comment on the KB post and you said, “Oh no, why did you call her gorgeous?”
You got that one right.
Yeah, I think there are a few reasons for it, but a lot of men, myself included, are really sensitive to the whole:
Girl 1: Oh, is so pretty.
Girl 2: OMG, I know.
Guy 1: [Thinks to himself] “What the fuck are they talking about. She is kinda odd looking, and she is not aging well.”
Especially with the explosion of fashion shows and wedding shows and awards shows and all the rest of it, it seems like more and more women have more and more opportunities to declare what is beautiful. This, at the same time when fewer and fewer people are getting married, more women are becoming “independent”, more women are out-earning men, and men look at plastic dolls online and fap away.
I think that this, and other factors, play into that instinct that instantly “corrects” girls when they (seemingly) try to tell us what female is beautiful.
@Susan
That would suggest to me that the men who worry most about EPL are, in fact, right to be worried. The problem isn’t incorrect observation (in their environment this is the main risk) but incorrect abstraction to the general case.
Personally, at this point the trend to have kids and not marry in the LC and now the lower half of the MC is much more worrying to me. Not that I’m not sympathetic to victims of EPL (like I said, I’m in that crowd) if they at least have the decency to do that prior to kids recovery isn’t fun but it isn’t the worst.
Hell, one tiny change to no-fault divorce law: the party seeking the divorce (and in separation the party leaving the marital home) automatically forfeits custody of children would fix a lot of my complaints. Although, I’d add a proviso on the separation if the man is forced out by a violence complaint then until that is proven he has not surrendered custody.
@Susan
She isn’t gorgeous. Very good but not gorgeous.
Gorgeous women don’t have to learn how to write to make a living.
Police officers? Probably not, because they don’t have the body strength for the most challenging parts of the job.
Detectives? Maybe …
This is why I asked about police officers first. If you don’t think they would be as good at being an officer, would you really want them to become a detective?
Let me put that another way, I can not think of one cop that would want to work with a detective that had never, first, been an officer. I am not saying they wouldn’t do it, but they would not want to.
You really think that women are, in general, as capable of being emotionally detached to judge serious criminal issues?
How many girls did you know that took apart there PC/Ford-Mustang/Harley/whatever to get at all the good stuff?
Oracle, Apple, Google and, to a degree, Microsoft, were all started by men who had a combination of need-to-tinker/obsessiveness/aggressiveness.
Women have gotten wealthier and wealthier over the last 4 decades and they have still started very few great businesses.
Hell, look at cooking.
As far as I know, there is only one 3 star Michelin chef that is female and she inherited it from her father (her father was awarded 3 stars and then she took over as Chef de Cuisine)
And the ticket example was not meant to be snarky. I honestly meant that you would want the laws to be applied equally. I didn’t put much thought into a better example because I could easily assume your answer.
@Susan
Huh? Really? Susan, you’re the last one I expected to type something like that.
I’m sure you know that having a penis also means that you’re being measured in all sorts of ways every day. It means you *will* for short every time, because there’s *always* someone there who’s bigger, smarter, faster, more clever, more attractive, more. Full stop.
Having a penis means that you’re expected to compete in what seems to be a winner-take-all game that you cannot win, no matter who you are unless you’re named Bill Gates or Vladimir Putin.
That possibility keeps you going, because you you’re told from birth that you may be “the one.” You’re told to always strive to win and believe that you might be that one, special person. And when it’s proven to your satisfaction that you are not, in fact, “the one”, you’re trained from from birth to get up the next morning and try again.
And to keep in “trying again” until you drop because there is no other way.
Certainly, there’s no other way to “get the girl”, the one who’s looking for a hero and a savior, the one who’s not looking in your direction because you don’t measure up.
Oh, wait! There *is* another way. You can do mind-numbing, trivial work every day that pays the bills until the kids need braces or the wife needs surgery. You can know that no matter what you do, it’ll never be enough to really take care of their needs, much less their wants. You can know that their unhappiness is all your fault because you aren’t such a great provider and you are not a good protector and you aren’t very exciting anyway.
Are you really sure you want to do that? Even for a day?
@ Sai/ Herb
John Calvin was a fine man, probably the finest man Western Civilization has ever produced. The center piece of his theology was indeed “Predestination to Election” (and damnation), but that was the magic ingredient that made Western Civilization grow. Unlike modern Christians who believe all you need to do is love Jesus and you are going to heaven, Calvinist believed that one could never know for sure if you were a part of the elect. Calvinist believed you had to constantly examine and reexamine your life to see if you were living in accord with Christian teaching; a life of self-reflection. They did see earthly riches as a “sign of election”, but it was not a guarantee, nor could it earn them election.
@ Plain Jane
You seem not to understand that the West is not headed for transformation, but destruction and in states of extreme privation and chaos, patriarchy will return. The only question is to what degree; my money is on something between 1950s Latin America and modern day Saudi Arabia with various polities in the West falling within that range.
@ Ampotan
I don’t know where you got your information, but it is outdate.
1. The demographic decline was imposed by the state, not by individual choices. I know many wealthy Chinese who have already gone back to have multiple children (3-4) and simply pay the fines; Confucianism encourages large families. Also, don’t underestimate the power of the one-child policy to maintain self-imposed moral discipline.
2. There is no one living in a cave in China today, the poor in China live much like illegal immigrants in America. However, there is a tradition of cave-houses going back 2000 years and I have seen some nice dwellings that are in face inside of a cave.
3. Yes, but Han Chinese are 92% of the population and do not make up less than 85% of the population in any province except Xinxiang (40%) and Tibet (7%, they get altitude sickness).
4. China is not a “prerevolutionary” state, it had a revolution it was called the Cultural Revolution and when you understand the magnitude of the chaos and disaster it inflicted on China you will understand why (even the average) Chinese will never allow mass civil unrest or democracy to unfold. From my experience the only country that doesn’t have “disturbances” is Singapore. Note however, the richer the region in China, the fewer the disturbances.
5. As I said, they live like illegal immigrants in the US. However, when the Yuan appreciates by 300% and they see their yearly income go from $7000.00 to $21,000.00 their living conditions will vastly improve.
@Marellus
I am sorry you didn’t take my answers seriously; I took your questions seriously.
@ Susan
I keep thinking of Carl Jung’s 1912 essay in which he says Americans were in danger of becoming the first nation of people to think of themselves as human first and men or women second. Jung also points out that many American women marry European men because American men are not aggressive enough and will not “posses” a woman; he say women want to be “dominated”. I think of the Western women I know who have married Arab men who are quite domineering and yet they seem happily married. Funny thing, the most anti-Muslim man I know dislikes them because of their treatment of women, yet he treats his wife basically the same way and she is lovingly devoted to him. Could it be said that Feminism was one big “shit test” that Western men failed?
@HerrKaiser
I was simplifying on the link between election and worldly wealth to avoid a long discussion of Calvin as I see it as a sideline.
As for the life of self-reflection, that is not unique to Calvin. He’s one of several churchmen over time who have pulled the pendulum of Christianity from ritual to reflection. I suspect there is a similar trend in Judaism but I admit to not knowing enough to be sure. Calvin stands out for being one of the main people arguing it at that time when printing was ending the Catholic monopoly on religious discussion and reading in Western Europe but before the idea of direct religious experience unmoderated by the Church was widely held.
In discussing the value of Calvin to Western economics I think remembering his echoes in the various Protestant dissent movements in England and Scotland (many early ones directly influenced by Calvin) and the two Great Awakenings in the US on keeping that idea of an examined life front and center more than happened in many parts of Europe (was there a similar trend in the Northern German states as well?) is key as well. It’s not that Calvin started it and that was that. It was Calvin pushed it and sustained long enough that it could take hold and be repeated (instead of drifting away as it had after late antiquity) as needed.
By the way, what did the search function disappear?
@joe
If it were only for a day, she would just stay home and jerk off to porn all day, so she wouldn’t experience any of that. Or, she could use her 50 years of experience of what it’s like to be a woman to go and seduce a bunch of women.
In a right world, however, most women should have to spend a month or two living the life an average mid to late teen aged boy with constant sexual craving in the face of a constant message that your craving is disgusting, insulting and unrequited.
@HerrKaiser
That’s a not uncommon theory in the ‘sphere.
Oh come on Joe,
Imagine you’re whole life being based around your appearance, you know your romantic success, your popularity, whether people take an interest in you, having to get up everyday and go through the whole rigmarole of doing yourself up so you look presentable even if you’re knackered and you’d kill for an extra bit of time in bed, on then if you don’t do it notice how much more invisible you are, or even if you do and a more beautiful woman comes along then,
I’ve made it sound a lot worse than it is really, its just life, but that’s how it feels for women sometimes, I wanted to demonstrate how its not easy for any of us
@HerrKaiser
My apologies. I have an irreverent streak within me.
If you can answer this though. What are your views on Japan ?
My thanks if you can answer.
I know Unigirl.
I deliberately left out the times that a man *does* experience victory, those times when his success is noticed, and those moments he knows he is a hero. I deliberately left out what that feels like. Honestly, nothing can compare.
I did that because it doesn’t happen every day, and Susan asked for one day.
No man is an alpha 100% of the time. Neither is he a beta or worse, 100%. Nobody. It’s only a matter of appreciating those moments when he is.
@unigirl
The difference is we have a whole world of people who can’t wait to hear about your issues and help you, but men are on their own.
For example, because it addresses a big issue of Susan’s, people who want to take actions in the schools because men are behind in most ways and the 60/40 college split in favor of women face opposition from feminists because of how that would hurt girls.
My favorite is we hear all kinds of stats of how the world is unfair because more money gets spent per capita on health care for men than women. The fact that women outlive men by nearly a decade, however, is peachy.
I’m not trying to say which sucks more. I’m just pointing out that life is hard and right now in the West we like to pretend that isn’t true for certain groups while it is doubly true for other groups.
Perhaps the best expression of that is Mort Sahl’s classic end of the world joke.
Yeah I just wanted to balance that, it does sound hard work, and to be fair before I started reading this blog I think I did think women had it all hard and men had it all easy in that way (as in we have to do all this to attract them but they get to just roll out of bed on a morning), we all struggle and compete in our lives every day I think, men and women, just in different ways.
@herb
“My favorite is we hear all kinds of stats of how the world is unfair because more money gets spent per capita on health care for men than women.”
When do we hear such stats? We hear empty claims of that, but I’ve never seen stats, because it’s patently untrue.
Herb,
I agree, I hear what you’re saying, with the family stuff I’d had going on I had to stay at a male mutual friend of mine and my other brothers house, while we were sat up watching tv we got to chatting and I confided what had been going on, and he listened, told me it wasn’t my fault and was very kind. I wonder if he’d had his own troubles it would have so easy for him to just talk to someone. I hope so.
I can see how it bothers you all the propoganda about how hard women have it and everything, I always noticed it even going way back, like they vicariously suffered through wrongs done to women in the past when none of us were even alive. And the wages gap, noone ever mentions how more women work part time, hence less pay because of less work, derrrr!
@Passer_By
Fine, we hear empty claims and ranting about it (the one stat I know is a late 90s study that men got more intervention for cardiac issues than women).
However, discussing why women outlive men and isn’t that due to inequalities in the health system is verboten. We’re not even allowed to ask if there is a link, much less look into if it exists.
Regardless, you’re missing my broader point. Let’s assume women have less spent on them. The key point is that the outcome is still men have shorter life spans. If we spent more on women but they lived shorter lives the press would be about how we have to spend more on women so they lived longer.
Up thread I pointed out my snarky theory of why white men are inherently superior (note the snarky, it’s not my belief but an argument absurdum to make a point). The spur for it was an interview with a black woman who was a student at Stanford in the late 80s. She contended no black person, even Michael Jackson (her example), had it as good as any white person in America. Being a multi-millionaire pop star (remember, this is prior to all the pedophilia accusations) was, if you were black, worth less than being a homeless white guy.
Feminists will make similar arguments about women. The homeless white guys I’ll walk past going home tonight are better off than Carly Fiorina or Nancy Pelsoi because they’re male. My favorite is women under the Taliban in Afghanistan were not really worse off or more oppressed than women in America.
Up thread, Susan asked what the manosphere is for/about. I think a huge part of it is for men, who are often very isolated, to find a place where people realize having a penis isn’t so powerful than being homeless with a penis is better than being CEO of HP with a vagina. It’s nice to have a world where people don’t believe your problems are willed out of existence by your dick.
@herb
Ok, for what it’s worth, I just googled it a little, and every study I found shows substantially more spent on women. If they could, insurance companies would charge higher premiums for women.
You know, sometimes I’m on the fence about whether certain commenters have a point, or whether they are off in Cloudcookooland, and then I read things like “Bolick promotes gender apartheid” and everything gets cleared up.
LMAO
“They all want Hot Alpha Stud Dominant Millionaire Man’s Land.”
There’s only 1 out of the above 5 qualities I want and that’s “hot” as in good looking. Alpha? Don’t know what it is and don’t care. Stud – I guess that means high libido raring to go all the time? No thanks. Dominant? Definitely not over me! Millionaire? Too much money can ruin a person.
As the spherically inclined would say, Kate Bollick is an “age-adjusted” 7. And that’s pretty rare in today’s America where by her age most men and women are over-weight and out of shape.
If it is, that sounds good. I hope my husband has oneitis. I definitely have it for him. Oneitis is only a problem when it’s not requited.
I remember walking into the minefield when I defended Emma Watson for saying she felt attractive with short hair. BTW, I recently saw that her short hair is the second or third most requested hairstyle at salons.
Full disclosure: I’ve been letting my own hair grow longer since that convo.
She’s not a supermodel, it’s true. On the other hand, a woman might want to write for a living, even if she were gorgeous. Intellectually curious women can’t possibly find standing in front of cameras stimulating.
@Ramble
Plain Jane is right. You gave a bunch of examples where women are naturally at a disadvantage. Do you think there are pursuits where women have the edge?
@Joe
Oh I wouldn’t go to work, I would stay home and slap it against counters and stuff. And look at porn all day. And then go out to a bar and walk up to a girl and say, “I’m an unemployed asshole and I live with my parents. I know you want me, let’s go.”
Herr, “You seem not to understand that the West is not headed for transformation, but destruction and in states of extreme privation and chaos, patriarchy will return. The only question is to what degree; my money is on something between 1950s Latin America and modern day Saudi Arabia with various polities in the West falling within that range.”
I completely disagree. The only people I see with such a pessimistic view are those who fear they might have to live slightly more rustically than their luxurious psychological comfort zone will allow. In other words, will we be consuming “stuff” to the same level we are not? NO. Is that a bad thing? NO! There may be less restaurants and department stores to choose from, of course, but this is GREAT. We’re already an obese nation with too many clothes, trinkets, junk and stuff that has failed to deliver happiness.
In my circles everyone is getting back to growing much of their own food, even they don’t have yards, they do it in their homes via the indoor vertical farming model, holding clothing swaps when they jones for a new outfit, shunning diapers in favor of elimination communication, doing away with animal-tested-petro-chemical makeup in favor of making our own hair and skin products at home, etc.
Every day MORE not less Americans are moving further away from the materialistic mass consumption matrix. As this evolves our country and its inhabitants will not look the same, but its not chaos, its actually a higher, more sustainable and gentler order.
I just discovered that myself looking for my EPL divorce link. I’ll get it back soon – tho I am away for the weekend. Sorry.
Dammit, Passer By already knew what I would say. I’m predictable after all.
I hear this complaint more than any other, I think. The shaming of male sexuality is clearly rampant and powerful. I erred in the other direction – my son usually had to say, “I don’t want to discuss this with you!” I’m wondering what, if anything, can be done to address this. I’d be happy to write a post on this, FWIW. Any anecdotal evidence would be welcome, since I really do not have a handle on this.
@susan
As the great Butthead once said while watching a music video “Beavis, if I had boobs like that, I’d never leave the house.”
Also, as to Bolick, I just googled for other images. She seems to already take a very different tone in this interview from shortly after the article.
http://ssheltonimages.com/play/dh7ziNnCiBo/Kate_Bolick%253A_Marriage_and_Me.html
@Marellus
The Japanese are unique among civilized people in that there is not even a pro forma set of absolute standards and morals within society. The paramount rule is, whatever the majority does is moral and it is immoral not to conform to the majority; the only person who was exempt from the rules of conformity and could unilaterally change them was the Emperor. Westerners fail to understand the enormity of Emperor’s admission to being a mortal man on the Japanese psyche; to them he was more than a monarch, he was an emperor and pope in one; the reduction of the Emperor’s status has left Japan rudderless. Yes, they rebuilt after World War Two, but that was obvious, what do you do after rebuilding? I think of the Mishima; when building his home in 1955 he told his architect he wanted a Western style home because,” I want to sit in a Greece-revival chair wearing a Hawaiian shirts thinking about what it would be like to be a man with blue eyes kissing a blonde woman”; by 1960 he had become a militant nationalist. It is clear Japan is stagnate on all fronts and has been left leaderless, adrift with no one brave enough to break the conformity. The Japanese have adopted a Western “tatomei” (I am sure that is misspelled) or surface appearance, but at their heart they are fundamentally different and being forced to wear the mask and organize their civilization in manner that is contrary to their true convictions has left them paralyzed. It is possible Japan will die; the demographic and economic trends look that way. However, I believe that as Western dominance ends, they will “turn back toward Asia” and reorganize their society nearer to their hearts desire. Already fewer Japanese are learning English (the largest English language learning company in Japan just went bankrupt), less Western entertainment is being consumed, and nationalist are gaining ground. A few months ago I had a conversation with a Japanese politician; he stated that he and his colleagues felt when Prince Naruhito takes the throne it will be their chance to ditch the American imposed constitution, restore imperial authority, force the girly boys to become men, put women “back in their place”, restore “proper social order”, and restore Japanese dignity; only time will tell which outcome will occur, but this man was fairly prominent and only in his late 30s.
” In other words, will we be consuming “stuff” to the same level we are not?”
Should read, “In other words, will we be consuming “stuff” to the same level we are NOW?”
I’ll add to that most people in my group don’t own TVs so cable is out of the question. Is that good for the cable business? Obviously not, but its good for their families! They spend their time outdoors, creating art and music, reading, meditating, doing yoga, etc – all which keeps them healthy, happy and smart. So again my point – as more and more Americans do live lifestyles increasingly like this, yes, there will be less artificial “glitz” in our culture and less of the businesses that sustain them, but all of that will be replaced by a higher inner quality of life and humanity.
If that’s what you call chaos – bring it on!
I present the Hideousness that is Kate Bolick
If that was aimed at me, then, I will say again, I was responding to that one picture on the cover. At the time, it was the picture you showed as well and said that she was beautiful.
I thought she had an aging Aniston Scowl. And, again, that is not good.
Okay, I know my GF knows about this site, and hopefully she’s not reading, but Kate Bollick is eminently bangable. The men who don’t see that are very odd to me. Or maybe they just prefer minorities.
Beats me.
Also, the manosphere DOES serve the function of voicing male complaints, even if it isn’t entirely accurate all the time. Maybe this is just me thinking of myself as a victim, but everything, EVERYTHING I see on gender relations is inverted to somehow show women being naturally superior or somehow being discriminated against.
An econ blog I like to read recently linked to a NY Times editorial, which stated that women’s success and men’s failure is just linked to inherent biological failures. This is the standard, accepted explanation whenever I speak to men or women about these issues. The manosphere ain’t right about everything, or even a lot, but one thing it gets right is that women’s shit stinks to heaven.
And goddam that feels nice sometimes. I will also add that it taught me some Game concepts, which has made my life a hell of a lot better.
@ Susan
“Are there any other options? What about the quarter of the female population that graduates from college with their virginity intact?”
A friend of mine was a graduate student in a STEM field. Very virginal, though he looks VERY badass. Once he went sarging to a graduate conference with a PUA friend of his.
His PUA friend was utterly disgusted at the women there, and even my virginal friend was turned off. His explanation was “the women there who were virgins were probably that way for a reason.”
That almost pains me to say. If someone told me that when I was a Beta Boy back in school, it would have been devastating. But to some extent it was true, I had a whole bunch of unattractive behavior traits and dressed poorly. Some girls were still attracted to me, but I didn’t pursue them. Some of them were quite beta, but were quite motivated, and ended up with other guys soon after.
I think, Susan, that the whole hook-up culture and the expectation around has burned out young people, and made them cynical, even BEFORE any actual relationships. I know I definitely felt that way, and that made me suspicious about any flirty and jaded against any “dating” advice that seemed “unfair.” ALL gender relations seemed adversarial.
Maybe, just maybe, if we get some opposite-gender interactions that are FUN among young people, they will be more motivated and more confident to do whatever they work they need to do to enjoy decent LTRs? I dunno, just shooting from the hip.
@Susan
As the local masochism representative, I’d advice against that. You really need to calibrate how hard he gets it as well as his furry friends. If you decide you’re into you need to work up to it.
Just trying to help.
@HerrKaiser
As I love to point out, the Japanese Imperial family is one of the 5 or so oldest institutions on the planet still going (the others are the early Orthodox Churches and the Catholic Church, take from that what you will). For institutions like that a 50-75 year adjustment isn’t permanent change. The institution survived periods of noble dominance much longer than that yet in the end those noble families are gone and the Emperor remains.
I don’t remember if I jumped down your throat on that one, but I meant to.
Tons of them.
But, before I list any, I stacked those scales for a reason. Let’s say you basically agreed with the examples that I gave where men had a significant advantage:
- Science
- Technology
- Math
- Engineering
- Police and Protective Services
- Judiciary
Basically, all of the things outside of the family that a society absolutely needs to properly exist in the modern first world. And, yet, males are losing the race in Junior High, High School, College, Graduate School, Internships, etc.
Interesting, huh?
Now, back to your question…
In all seriousness, #1 would be:
Making Babies (it’s kinda important, and only girls can do it).
And, after they make a baby, feeding babies. Women produce the absolute greatest food in the world, Mother’s Milk (which, btw, is absolutely loaded with Cholesterol and Saturated Fat).
But, on with the list:
Making Personal Connections
Caring
Nurturing
Patience
Some people might think that I am being an asshole in listing these traits, but, they can make a difference in the professional world.
For instance, back in the bad old days when men were given first dibs on almost all careers outside of Nursing and Teaching and Secretarial work, all of the Telephone Operators were male as well.
But, that did not last long. When customers would get short with the operators as they tried(and sometimes failed) to make the proper connections, many of the male operators would go off on the customers. So, soon enough, they were all fired and replaced with women.
Also, there is a reason why the young and infirm were cared for by women (i.e. female teachers [who had to quite the second they got married] and female nurses).
@beta guy
“A friend of mine was a graduate student in a STEM field. Very virginal, though he looks VERY badass. Once he went sarging to a graduate conference with a PUA friend of his. His PUA friend was utterly disgusted at the women there, and even my virginal friend was turned off. His explanation was “the women there who were virgins were probably that way for a reason.”
I don’t understand this. He was virginal but went sarging? Also, was this conference about virgins? A conference OF virgins? Strange place to go sarging, if so. If not, what is the significance of that particular conference and how were they identifying the virgins (as opposed to at any other venue)?
“I’m an unemployed asshole and I live with my parents. I know you want me, let’s go.”
“I’m George, I’m unemployed and I live with my parents.”
http://youtu.be/cKUvKE3bQlY?t=2m38s
“As I love to point out, the Japanese Imperial family is one of the 5 or so oldest institutions on the planet still going (the others are the early Orthodox Churches and the Catholic Church, take from that what you will). ”
Don’t forget Hindu Sampradayas.
Susan, you have often said that the most common search query that brings people (girls) to your site is: How do I get a boyfriend?
There must be a way to connect the horny, hounded and hapless with the unboyfriended. I dunno, Snatch.com?
You could force every girl to put on her profile that she is into guys that fap and play video games and every guy must list Reality Shows and listening to gossip as his favorite past-times.
By the time they realize they were duped maybe they would have fallen for each other.
I’m wondering what, if anything, can be done to address this.
Popular Culture.
(While I am usually the one sounding the alarms as to how slanted pop culture has been for a long time, I think that I am starting to see some signs of change.)
@Susan
Well, all right then! That’s how it’s done.
Carry on.
Herr,
“I think of the Mishima; when building his home in 1955 he told his architect he wanted a Western style home because,” I want to sit in a Greece-revival chair wearing a Hawaiian shirts thinking about what it would be like to be a man with blue eyes kissing a blonde woman”; by 1960 he had become a militant nationalist.”
Its nothing more than the appeal of the exotic other. Easterners will dabble in the exotic other just like Westerners will, the exotic other being both of us, each other. Its a type of novelty. But when the novelty wheres off, both Easterners and Westerners return to what they know – the comfort of the familiar, their own cultures. However they often do this taking with them aspects of the exotic other culture that work well in their original culture and sort of merge the two into a workable third culture that takes the best of both worlds.
“I believe that as Western dominance ends, they will “turn back toward Asia” and reorganize their society nearer to their hearts desire. ”
This attitude is increasingly common in South Asia where I have family. But South Asians never really did fall for “west is best” ever at anytime. We have too much pride in our ancient traditions, both the ones that work, and the ones that don’t.
@Höllenhund
“There are many women promoting the creation of women-only places and communities.”
Couldn’t someone sue them for discrimination?
(I still have much to learn)
@unigirl
I’m glad you got the chance to rip him a new one. It’s the least he deserved.
Also
@Marellus
I’m glad you and your mother have good lives and love each other.
@Herb
Thanks, I really did forget some about Calvin.
@david foster
Interesting! I am very much archetype #3 but willing to improve at being #2.
(I was prepared to laugh at the PB&J article, but not even I found it funny. I just don’t have the words.)
@Passer_By
“In a right world, however, most women should have to spend a month or two living the life an average mid to late teen aged boy with constant sexual craving in the face of a constant message that your craving is disgusting, insulting and unrequited.”
I would support this. Because of the sort of family I had/have it took years for me to even admit to my parents (after high school) that I liked looking at and thinking about guys whom I found attractive. It was awkward enough for me and I’m not even male, so I don’t think chicks would run down guys as much if they knew how it was for them.
@A Definite Beta Guy
“Maybe, just maybe, if we get some opposite-gender interactions that are FUN among young people, they will be more motivated and more confident to do whatever they work they need to do to enjoy decent LTRs? I dunno, just shooting from the hip.”
I think it’s worth a try.
@susan
“I’m wondering what, if anything, can be done to address this. ”
More sluts?
@HerrKaiser.
You seem to have knowledge of finance and politics. Your English is good. I suspect you’re an international banker. Be that as it may, consider this :
There does appear to be cycles in history. Martin Armstrong made his name with it, and WD Gann made a fortune with it.
And there is such a thing as a thousand year cycle.
For example :
The Crusades started in the 11′th Century, and a thousand years before that you had Masada. This is the 21′st Century, so I suspect this century will bring forth another Crusade. I doubt it will be Catholic Church that will fan the flames this time; it will be America.
America, despite its many problems, is that only country that has the ideological base, and ultimately the willingness to launch a Crusade.
Be that as it may, let’s return to the Far East. A thousand years ago, China had the Sung Dynasty, and a thousand years before that the Han Dynasty. Both dynasties were noted for their commercial success, and military exploits.
I suspect that China has another Sung Dynasty in the making. In fact, it’s eerie that the Sung came into power during the middle of the tenth century … and the communists in the middle of the twentieth century … which means that the Communists will remain in power for at least another two hundred years.
As for Japan, what happened to them a thousand years ago ?
From wikipedia (not reliable I know)
It almost sounds a lot like Japan today does it not ?
It seems that if history is any guide, that Japan will stagnate but be peaceful. And Japan will more like as not isolate itself from the rest of the world. They’ve done it before, and they will do it again.
Which means that whatever takes over from Japan’s hopeless political setup, will be militaristic.
And then China had better watch out.
I thank you for your expositions so far. Can you comment further on this perhaps ?
And another question : Can you comment on China’s headlong rush to accumulate gold. They’re set to surpass India in consumption this year. Is this a grand strategy to weaken the Dollar ?
Or is this just them buying gold which is logged as ‘exports’ on US Balance Sheets, while recycling useless dollars into the US Economy as Mr Armstrong suggests ?
@sai
Women doing this are creating a safe space, not discrimination. If you don’t believe me, research women only gyms in Massachusetts, Pennsylvania, and Illinois:
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CB8QFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fdownload.ihrsa.org%2Fgr%2Fwomenonly.pdf&ei=JsdTUOfXDOiK2wWc0oDoDA&usg=AFQjCNH3C9slxBoaLasKXwHtV5j5o6faNQ&sig2=Z9MNE7MUvR2P1_oIr_HVEg
I love how Mass amended their law specifically to allow it while letting cases ending male only gyms stand. I lived in CT and worked in RI and partied in Boston when it happened and I thought it was a laugh.
OK after seeing those latest pix of Kate that Susan posted I’ve upgraded her half a point to a 7.5 NON age adjusted, meaning, whether for 28 or 38 she’s a 7.5 and a very attractive lady.
The pic on cover of that magazine did not do her justice. She looked heavily caked up, which ironically, makes women look OLDER, not younger, as its intended. Ladies, lay off the chemicals and if you absolutely cannot, go as light as possible – no foundation!
Susan: “This is curious. When the much maligned Kate Bolick asked the women at my home whether they would prioritize career or family, 100% said family. Among these women:
A medical student.
An accountant.
An equities trader.
An elementary school teacher.
A physical therapist.
They attended Princeton, Middlebury, Duke and BU.”
The way I see it is that BOTH men and women are less materially driven than they were back in the 70s and 80s. Back then Americans were still on the “we’re the greatest country in the world” trip, hence “let’s exploit the f*ck outta the earth and everyone on it, including ourselves and our families”. “Getting ahead” at any cost was the mantra, especially post-hippie era. We were all about consumption, consumption and more consumption, and we needed to work, work, work to maintain that lifestyle. It did nothing but create problems for us – health, mental, family and relationship problems.
Today’s American would rather earn less, consume less, but EXPERIENCE more health and happiness.
Not only today’s women, but increasingly more and more of today’s men prioritize family over career as well, as exemplified by Susan’s husband as she explained earlier.
Totally O/T, but a friend sent me this on FB. And you Yanks thought you had problems …
Hey Mr Marellus,
Things are getting worse here in Argentina. I don’t know if you are aware of the latest… Now, if you are travelling abroad you are only allowed to purchase foreign currency of the country you are visiting and only to the amount that the tax authority deems appropriate. Think of this, if I ever visit SA foget about buying US dollas over the counter, I’d have to purchase rands. And so on and so forth… Oh, btw, you can only buy 7 days before you are travelling.
The business of selling US dollar bills in the black market is booming. Official exchange rate is at 4.68 argentinean pesos to a dollar, trouble is no-one can buy at that rate. So in practical terms, it’s an imaginary rate, unthinkable to ever be used. Black market dollar is at 6.40 pesos to a dollar. So, if you have a way to get your hands in some US dollar bills at the official exchange rate, you can end up with a very nice, hefty profit, just don’t get caught! They WILL chase you and charge you with operating a business of buying/selling foreign currency without a licence. Minimum term: 2 years, no probation.
Credit card dollar. This a new denomination, let me clarify. Now, if you purchase something abroad with your credit card or debit card (with accounts held in us dollars, NOT pesos) you pay an advance income tax of 15% on top of the official exchange rate. For intance, your so-called “credit card dollar” exchange rate is 4.68+15% = 5.382. When you settle your statement, you pay that tax and your bank/credit card passes it on to the government.
We are heading towards Venezuela and Cuba. But I think that this Kirchner dictatorship is beginnign to weaken. She (our lady president) is also thinking of ammending the Constitution to allow a further term, something she is facing stiff opposition for. Last night from 8 pm on, there were street protests in several of the largest cities, including Buenos Aires, Cordoba, Rosario, and many others. People gathered with pans and pots and banners to express their anger. I truly hope that this pays off. We need to oust this lame government!
I neglected to mention restrictions to import of foreign goods. Now, from some months ago on, if you are planning to import whatever cannot be manufactured in the country, you have to file an authorization to Customs. They can grant or deny such authorization and the appeal process is somewhat complex, to the point of deterring people from ever bothering to do it. Medical products, drugs, books and magazines, car spares, electronics, and many more, are beginning to be scarce. Stocks get piled up in the customs werehouse waiting for clearance, which can even take months! Some dentists are reporting difficulties to obtain anesthetic, braces, and other materials.
Travelling abroad has become a nightmare. From asking for permission to buy foreign currency (no more that 50 – 100 USD per person per day or equivalent in local currency, and that should include you hotel expenses) to the obligation to declare under oath: where you are travelling, length of journey, purpose of journey, name of people who travel with you, how you paid for the travel package (number of repayments, if any, total amount owed, etc). Oh, and if you happen NOT to travel after you’ve hereby declared that you would, they will force you to re-sell the foreign currency you bought for that journey. The government can also charge you with filing a misleading, inaccurate sworn affidavit or something similar for doing that.
There even were rumours that a chip woud be inserted in passports so the government can check out when you leave the country and when you come back in, but these roumors where denied.
Cristina, this is what we call our lady president, has foreign trade ties with countries of the like of Angola, Venezuela, Kazakhstan, North Korea, Lybia…
Next year we have mid-term elections to chose representatives and senators. The government is speculating with achiving 67% majority in both chambers so that the act to ammend the constitution is passed.
The media reflect the reality according to whether they are independent of government-controlled. For instance, last night’s protests were minimized or altogether ignored by the media with links to the government.
I know this all sounds too grim but this is just the way it is, at least for the time being.
And you are more than welcome to post this on your wall if you want to.
Best,
Victor
@Marellus
I’m glad to see someone else connected to the rest of the world, specially LA. I’m not sure if Susan will allow it but one of the reasons I used to comment about my culture’s SMP is that I think a bit of ethnocentrism is part of the problem and that seeing a different dynamic helps people that think the world end and starts on USA. I think is good having a bit of the perspective of the rest of the world.
“A good friend of mine had sex with her three teenage brothers from the ages of 10-13. They have been estranged since she left home at 18, but she has struggled with the aftereffects all her life.”
Susan, how can that be “had sex”. Its rape.
@Herb
” discussing why women outlive men and isn’t that due to inequalities in the health system ”
I beleive ther are two reasons women outlive men:
1. Men do crazy , reckless things like light firecrackers off their heads (yes I’ve seen it). They think it’s really funny.
2. Men won’t go to the doctor unless it really, really serious, or really, really painful.
I think woman live, on average, seven years longer than men. This isn’t always a good thing. Elderly womaen are at much greater risk of outliving their money No way would I want to outlive my husband by a decade.
Summarizing maggie:
Men suffer worse health and experience early death – women hit hardest.
@ Herb,
Actually, most of those noble families are still in charge in Japan; they have lost their titles (as enforced by the American imposed constitution), but as Japan is only a surface democracy, they still wield power. A few new powerful business families, like the Toyoda’s and the Honda’s have been added to ranks of Japan’s elite over the last 100 years, but the old noble families still serve as the sole source of acceptable spouses for members of the imperial family.
@ Plain Jane,
Please home grown food and natural make-up! Let me paint you a picture of what is coming when dollar collapses. There will be a general scarcity of food, clothing, medicine; if you have not America’s industrial base has been hollowed out and we no long produce most goods. We still grow a lot of food and have retained agroprocessing; unfortunately, we will be unable to import oil to transport that food when oil is no long priced in dollars. Whether it is a capital good like food or a consumer good like shirts, these things are all imported and we will no longer have access to them. Even in the case of the industry that remains in the US (and this will also be a major problem for other Western countries as well) we will be unable to import basic inputs for their operation and in a hyperinflation environment they will be unable to access capital; not that savings rates in the West are high enough for them to operate even after the inflation is cleaned up. We can expect an immediate breakdown of law and order once first responder are no longer paid and even after thing settle out there will be little money for extensive government services (just the basics, maybe). Patriarchy will return as most service jobs which women rely upon will no longer be economically viable, they will need to attach themselves to a man for basic support. In short, when you picture the future, imagine post-Soviet Russia circa 1995, but without a Putin and oil exports to save us.
@ Marellus,
I am not a banker; actually I am a commodities trader. English is my first language, but I tend to relax my grammatical norm when posting on the internet. It is funny you mention 1000 year cycles, I have been thinking along similar lines. I don’t believe for a second that the United States (as the entity of preeminence in the world it is now) will exist in 1000 year, not even twenty. American Christianity is a joke filled with the “God is going to make you rich” or “Jesus was the greatest American” types; it is all feel good nonsense or jingoistic bigotry; there are no more John Calvins, John Knoxs , or Oliver Cormwells in the West. When was the last time you saw an American Christian willing to risk beheading to preach the gospel in Saudi Arabia? Anyway, I have noticed that all the civilizations of the “Greater West”, that is all the civilizations originating west of the Indus River are either dead or dying. I wonder if there was something inherent in the basic ideas of those civilizations that arose after the Bronze Age Collapse, which are the forebears of current “Greater West”, which has simply run out of steam or hit a wall. The basic organization of Phoenician, Assyrian, and later Greek civilization (which shifted the center of the “Greater West” from the Persian Gulf to the Mediterranean) was for the first time distinct from that of the East in way Sumerian, Egyptian, and Elamite civilization was not. Islamic civilization (Arab, Persian, and Turkish) is largely dead (but for the oil money), Eastern Slavic civilization (Russia and other Orthodox Christian Europeans) are goners; now we are just waiting on the West; perhaps this is an end to a 3200 year cycle. I do think China’s government meritocracy- technocracy will last for the foreseeable future, but not with the communist ideology. I have notice that over the last year almost all the true Marxist left in the CCP (and there were not many) have either been forced into retirement or shoot; Bo Xiali was just the tip of the iceberg. The Japanese will most likely reconcile with the Chinese (as the Taiwanese are doing); I had a Japanese nationalist tell me that, “every true Japanese understands that you must first understand what it is to be Chinese before you can be Japanese”. As for China buying gold; it is that they are simply getting to big to hold dollars as a reserve currency; by all rights they should be (and will be) the reserve currency. They are selling US treasuries to buy gold (and I have been offered discounted treasuries myself) and obviously that will add to dollar denominated commodity price inflation. Gold is a good investment, but keep it out of the country; they will seize it when things fall apart here.
Susan,
“I never said or thought any such thing, and I wouldn’t have outed you, just so you know. You weren’t the only one, though, and I wasn’t surprised. I took an immediately liking to her. I guess you had to be there…She is actually very feminine and warm, and not the least bit ideological.”
I know. I was talking to Ramble, not you. I figured out a while back that taking things personally was REALLY not working for me, so I think you’re underestimating my skin thickness these days.
As for outing, what’s to out? I’m not ashamed of being interested is Bolick. It would be a pretty lie to pretend that she’s destined to be a cat lady for the purposes of convincing younger women/men to take the marriage search more seriously at a younger age, but in Bolick’s case, it just isn’t true.
Most of her competition has taken themselves out of the running by single-momming it up, packing on the pounds, or sticking to their bad attitude guns. If Bolick remains single, its because she’s chosen it, not that she has no good options. It is true that if the rising generation follows her example en masse, things won’t be so rosy for them.
Ramble,
“Desi, you are attracted to whomever you are attracted to (tautology). But, Susan has often mentioned how many guys wrote her to tell her how beautiful Bolick was after the piece came out. That is an example of supplication.”
Agreed, but asking for an invite is different than waxing on her beauty. I was one of the ones lampooning her ridiculous Atlantic pics, and I wasn’t crazy about the article either, especially the unhinged ruminations on the last page.
That said, there is a sexy librarian pic of her somewhere out there on the net that is smoking hot. I took Susan at her word (I come across much better in person than in most pictures too) and did some homework.
Yeah, we’re all familiar with women who reflexively call their frumpy friends “gorgeous”, doing no favors to anyone, but Susan isn’t just any woman.
BTW, a woman who has made it to that age with that much going on in the looks department who still hasn’t figured out how to strike a non-ridiculous pose, well, there’s something appealing about such a persistent inability to fake it.
“If you would like to see her socially, and think you have a decent shot, then that is, obviously, fine.”
I’d be interested in seeing her “socially” sure, at first, to see how she’s working on her (obvious) issues, how she interacts with others, whether she appreciates what I bring to the table. But if those all check out, I’d be all about jumping her bones, and not just once.
If she were a shrew, I don’t in fact bring enough dominance to tame that, nor am I interested in doing so, but if she’s what Susan says she is, there’s a decent chance we’d hit it off.
Ramble,
To clarify, you referred to the invite requests specifically as an example of supplicating males. There are non-supplicating males out there for Bolick when she decides to get off the high horse, just as there are non-mercenary females for Herb if he decides to upgrade his frame. The culture isn’t helping, but its victory has been far from total.
@Anacaona
Oh, I don’t know Ana. I asked Mr Victor if this had any effect on the women in Argentina. If the USA ends up nearly as bad as Argentina, one had better take notice.
I suspect though that women will lower the ‘price’ of sex. Why ?
I once read a book by a traveling journalist who was trying to diagnose the economic ills of Africa. And what he wrote that really struck me, was this barbershop he frequented in Harare, while he was in Zimbabwe.
The barbers were all women, and there was a lot of flirting going on between him and them. But as Zimbabwe’s economy imploded that barbershop became seedier and and seedier, until those female barbers outright started soliciting him for sex … at a price.
He knew those women for years.
And that was not the only instance. Between the borders of Zimbabwe of South Africa there is only one place where the lorries can pass.
Beitbridge.
And as Zimbabwe’s woes increased, more and more of the prostitutes servicing those truck drivers originated from Zimbabwe.
And this journalist interviewed one of these prostitutes, and then she made dinner for him and a trucker there at Beitbridge.
He said her cooking was excellent.
So I hope Mr Victor can shed some light on this, and if he does, and if Suzan is still willing, I’ll post his response.
alpha
@SW
This is perhaps the “HUS Understatement of the Century”.
@HerrKaiser.
Why oh why do I get the impression that all is not well with the US Bond Market ?
During the Great Depression it wasn’t the Stock Market Collapse that hurt ordinary Americans. It was the collapse in the retail bonds they bought, especially those of foreign governments.
I shudder.
I’ll try and get back on the Greater West.
@ Marellus
Earlier you mentioned Argentina; I have long thought becoming “another Argentina” was best of all possible outcomes for the United States after the dollar collapses.
@ Sai
Oh haha. Don’t pick on Afghanistan though. It’s not their fault Pakistan messed up things there. Well we helped Pakistan do that in the 80s thanks to the stupid Cold War, but since the end of the Cold War, it’s been Pakistan that’s messed up things there. The Taliban wouldn’t exist without Pakistan. It’s interesting to look at polls in Afghanistan about other countries – they have mixed feelings towards America, Russia, Iran, and other countries that have been involved there, but are extremely anti-Pakistan.
I suspect though that women will lower the ‘price’ of sex. Why ?
Hubby and I were having this discussion about why some civilization rise and why some others remain barely out of primitive stage and even though are not that knowledge on history we both have perspective the Tainos never did anything advanced because my island was pretty mild weather, food grow fast and everywhere there was no need to plant ahead for season and aside from the occasional hurricane they didn’t needed to pay attention this laid back attitude is still present on Dominicans we don’t do maintenance, there is not a culture of saving and investing and even though we have the first university of the new world we haven’t added anything to American’s science. While we have other cultures that are so desperate and lack of resources or sources that they also live in a day to day basis due to there is no reason to plan what has little chances to work out. So a culture most not be so desperate and poor as to lose all hope of improvement and not so rich and full of privileges as to no lose caution and long term thinking. So yeah I wouldn’t doubt Argentina will go the “casual sex cures all your problems” route for different reasons than USA did, YMMV.
@HerrKaiser
My point was despite several noble families have century long domination of the country they have never replaced the Imperial family. It has always come back to the fore eventually.
It is one of the most resilient institution man has ever created.
@Maggie
You’re missing my point…feminists want to complain men get more medical attention while ignoring the lifespan difference. Healthcare isn’t defined by results but inputs.
If men outlived women only results would matter and input equality be damned.
@Mr. Desi
Ditto, babyface notwithstanding.
Re: it’s like THAT overseas?!
I hope Argentina can scrape off their government before it’s too late.
They can have my little bit of gold when they… ah, you know the rest.
@INTJ
That’s why I like coming here, I keep learning things. I wish we’d let the Reds eat Osama & Co., but I’m now fine with leaving the nation of Afghanistan out of it.
But if India wants to make a Pakistan sandwich, I hope the U.S. has guys there tomorrow going “Namaste, where do you want these explosives?”
@ Passer_By
“I don’t understand this. He was virginal but went sarging? Also, was this conference about virgins? A conference OF virgins? Strange place to go sarging, if so. If not, what is the significance of that particular conference and how were they identifying the virgins (as opposed to at any other venue)?”
It was some sort of conference for graduate school students. I don’t remember all the details. My comment was that perhaps he may feel more comfortable there, because they will have less sexual experience, and his response was that there was a reason for that. Namely that they were repulsive, even to him.
@HerrKaiser
Maybe America’s decline has something to do with what William Playfair said about Rome :
Had the Romans stopped the career of conquest at an earlier period, they probably would not have so soon sunk into a state of corruption. It is very probable, that if Caesar had never attempted the useless conquest of Britain, he never would have succeeded in conquering the liberties of his own country.
The reputation of having conquered an island, and the passage of the British Channel, made way for the passage of the Rubicon, and the battle of Pharsalia.
Conquerors must be paid as well as common soldiers: and though every man may have his price, and money and dignities may be a sufficient reward for the most part, there are some who despise any reward under that of royal power.
— Caesar was one of those men; and both ancient and modern history shew, that though, perhaps, in his abilities, he has had no equal, there have been others who have rated theirs at as high a price.
The Romans at last became sensible, when too late, that they had pushed the spirit of conquest too far; and, as they had something great in all they did, they had the magnanimity to retract their error.
The greatest extent of the Roman empire being from the north of England to the Gulf of Persia, they consequently abandoned Britain, and those conquests in Asia, which were the most difficult to keep.
The river Euphrates became the boundary, the Emperor Adrian having, in a voluntary manner, given up all the country to the north of that river, situated on its left bank.
The decline of the empire might have been as regular as the rise of the republic, had it not been for the different characters of the emperors; some of whom did honour to human nature, from their possessing almost every virtue, while others were such monsters, that their crimes excite the highest degree of horror and indignation, and are almost beyond credibility.
It is but justice to the Romans to observe, that though they robbed and conquered, yet their policy was to instruct, improve, and civilize those whom they had robbed and conquered, wherever they stood in want of it.
They aimed, in every case, at making the most of the circumstances in which they were placed, and they very truly conceived, that it was more profitable and advantageous, to rule over a civilized than a rude people.
After the great influx of wealth had corrupted Rome, its public expenses increased at an enormous rate, till at last that portion of the tribute exacted from the provinces, which it pleased the armies and the generals to remit to Rome, became unequal to the expenditure.
Taxation of every kind then became necessary, in Italy itself, and the evils that attend the multiplication of imposts were greatly augmented by the ignorant manner in which they were laid on, by men who understood little but military affairs, added to the severe manner in which were they levied by a rude, imperious, and debauched soldiery.
The characters of soldier and citizen, which had been so long united, ceased to have any connection. Soon after this, the corruption of manners became general; and, at last, the Romans unable to find soldiers amongst themselves, were obliged to retain barbarians to fight in their defence, and to bribe the Persians, and other nations, to leave them in a state of tranquility.
No nation that ever yet submitted to pay tribute, has long preserved its independence. The Romans knew this well; and if any one, having had recourse to that expedient, has escaped ruin, it has been from some other circumstance than its own exertion; or it has sometimes been the effort of despair when pushed to extremity.
Though, in many respects, Montesquieu’s opinion of the affairs of Rome is by no means to be taken, yet his short account of the whole is unexceptionally just.
“Take,” says that able and profound writer, “this compendium of the Roman history. The Romans subdued all nations by their maxims; but, when they had succeeded in doing so, they could no longer preserve their republican form of government. It was necessary to change the plan, and maxims contrary to their first, being introduced, they were divested of all their grandeur.”
I cannot find it on the net, but Edward Gibbon wrote that in the last days of Rome, there was also a rise in feminism. It makes you think.
********************************************************************
@Anacaona.
Look at any world map, and you will see that no great nation lies between the Tropics of Capricorn, and the Tropics of Cancer. None.
It’s too hot there.
And even in the US, there was a movement in economic vigor from the North to the South. Why ?
Airconditioning.
@HerrKaiser.
http://www.gutenberg.org/files/16575/16575-h/16575-h.htm
It’s too hot there.
I heard the “hot” theory but what about Egypt?
Call me crazy, but this is right down my alley.
Real. Smart. Feminine.
Does she need a man? Depends on the man.
I have extensive experience dealing with, and loving, feminists, especially those coming to terms with its limitations….
I suspect she could be convinced.
@Desi
Well Susan has her email I always say is better to try and fail than to never try and we will be here to call her a bitch if she doesn’t take you…That is what friends are for
@Herb
I don’t think they’re actually correct on the disparate spending claim:
http://www.healthcarefinancenews.com/news/analysis-gender-delineation-seen-medical-spending
It’s a mixed bag, but women seem to have the edge in per capita health care spending. I’m no expert, though I took a health economics class back in college, but I’d say the higher spending on women doesn’t *cause* them to live longer. That’s not how the life expectancy equation works, if I understand it correctly. Rather, because women do live longer than men, and are the ones to physically bear children, those events cause their health care costs to be higher.
@Desi
Eh, it’s okay but I’m not rushing out for it.
Limiting myself to women in my A/2 +7 I’d much prefer:
her
or her (who is 46 in this picture) and looks just as good now at 51. Sadly, I can’t find a picture of her female keyboardist touring with Dead Can Dance who I wanted to take home from the show last week (I’d put the keyboardist mid to late 30s). I almost wrote a long comment here about two very attractive but not hot but damn did I want them women on the stage.
I’ll finish off with Summer and Dru of The Machine in the Garden and This Ascension respectively and both members of Mirabilis.
Yes, Lisa, the unknown keyboardist, Summer, and Dru all score big points for being musicians who work I love. While men say women’s work isn’t an attraction I’ll admit artists with genuine accomplishment (you know, the kind that take devotion and work) look more attractive for some reason.
@Desi @Herb
This is a nice interchange.
I think we had a similar “What is hot to me” banter among men and unsurprisingly enough the more Alpha and Alphas in training commenter linked pics of women that I could guess are in the 20% of attractiveness. It would be nice if the good boys of HUS linked a bit their preferences Roissy’s scale of beauty is unattainable by the majority of women and probably makes more of them to go to eating ice cream that even trying, because really short of plastic surgery you don’t even register to men according to it.
Knowing that decent guys are not that looking for Megan Fox’s clone might help a bit to our readers, YMMV.
@ Anacaona
Hmm. I’ll do this tomorrow.
@Ana
Well, as a dyed in the wool beta at best (if not lower ranked than that) my idea of attractive (I’m not into hot…hot is for 22 year olds wanting to bust a nut…attractive, handsome, beautiful, etc are for 40+ year old men) take mine with a grain of salt.
However, given I’m up late baby-sitting an unruly model some more but unbound from time a bit:
Patricia Morrison from her days as the bass player for The Sisters of Mercy (and in this classic video…love the suit…women can really rock a suit if they do it right…plus, Petra, hello). She’s the closest to “hot” I’ve show so far.
Since I’m on goth girls, I can’t leave out Siouxsie Sioux in her classic look and a video of my favorite song by her (I’d forgotten just how good she looked in that video…probably the best image I’ve posted yet).
Claudia Christian, a great example of what a handsome woman looks like.
Syrah of Qntal and Estampie…gotta love the medieval dress (goes with the bands)…I guess I owe a video but she’s not in it, just her voice. The video does show the power of a wimple to enhance a woman’s beauty by framing the face.
Liv Kristine of Leaves’ Eyes in her classic image is probably the most conventional attractive woman I’ve listed. The image is a bit old, dating to The Vinland Saga album.
I’ll quit before I bore or run off all of Susan’s readers.
@Herb
That was a lovely sample. Hubby is into the “exotic, interesting” type more than the hot…Mmm can I be pushy and ask you to post your pic? It would be a good sample of how ranks and desire for and we have many guys hat hat had placed it at least briefly. Just another suggestion, feel free to ignore it if you are not comfortable.
@Ana
I think my all time interesting is Lene Lovitch. This is no way I can call her attractive in any conventional sense, but watching that (or other) videos by her I couldn’t keep my eyes off her.
When I want exotic I’ll admit a weakness for Indian women. The best example is actually just a random woman interviewed in the documentary series The Story of India in terms of hitting all the notes for me. Instead I’ll just go with a Ballywood actress, Kareena Kappor (here in her wedding dress if I read correctly). Of course we have the very sexy swimming scene from Asoka.
Pictures of me are few and far between. this is from my first Oscillator (2 I believe) which makes it summer 2008 or so.
On air back in my radio days so probably 2008 as well although I still own that shirt.
I can’t find anything more recent. I don’t get photographed very often.
@Anacaona
Good point. The purists often attack their best allies because they don’t fully agree while forgetting that the “real enemy” lies elsewhere.
Ana,
That’s sweet, but if Susan thought I were the man for the job, she’d have already put me on it – have to trust her judgment there too.
“I think we had a similar “What is hot to me” banter among men and unsurprisingly enough the more Alpha and Alphas in training commenter linked pics of women that I could guess are in the 20% of attractiveness.”
Bolick is well within that 20% and I was an alpha raised in captivity, but I’m still an alpha – it’s wired in the brain. Gotta keep stepping my game back up.
J,
(from the Hope thread)
Thanks for the tip on Donne’s Batter My Heart, hadn’t seen that. The best poem? Not sure that’s a meaningful concept, but it’s up there.
Donne was the ultimate reformed player, so maybe the chick crack at the end got you…
His struggle for faith is the modern one, but also the one Paul identifies and attempts to tackle in Romans.
@Desi
That wasn’t the issue. The truth is, I met KB once in professional circumstances. We haven’t maintained contact or formed a friendship of any kind, and I did not feel (and still don’t) that an attempt at matchmaking would be appropriate. I did not pursue the matter with any of the men who inquired, and it had nothing to do with them.
Susan,
I know.
It’s just easier than saying the status gap is likely too great. I once had the prestige to be in Bolick’s league. I do not currently.
@Ana
#842
Very astute analysis. Why start agriculture if there’s already food all over the place? No agriculture, no civilization…..
Desiderius – I don’t post often on the weekends because I’m usually busy doing ahit with the family. But I had to speak up when I saw this:
“I once had the prestige to be in Bolick’s league. I do not currently.”
Prestige to be in her “league”? Listen, I don’t know a damn thing about Bollick, but I’m DAMN sure you are not out of her league. In fact, I’d say she is out of yours if for no reason than she spent most of her life ignoring guys exactly like you. I don’t care how much money she makes or who she rubs elbows with, she clearly put herself and her career above marriage and LTRs, and in my opinion that puts her “league” just a notch or two above reformed sluts.
Now back to your regularly scheduled weekend!
Donne was the ultimate reformed player, so maybe the chick crack at the end got you…
The local hookers called him John Never-Donne, but I love him for his metaphysical conceits. Dead don’t fill no holes.
OT, but interesting. There a TV show on right down that is aimed at teens. There’s a multi-cultural panel of four attractive teens discussing teen health issues like drugs, smoking, etc. Also discussed is the mattter of teachers “crossing boundaries.” The kids are commenting on a video featuring a woman teacher asking a student to come over and help her with chores because her husband is out of town and can’t help her. One young man is wishing for a similar opportunity because “She’s hot!” The other three kids (one male, two female) are trying to convince him that it’s sexual assault. Interesting that teacher assault has been added to the list of things we now caution teens about and that the offender is a woman. The moderator of the discussion is a 30 something man.
@J
Although it doesn’t get the press, teacher assault is more common than abuse by Catholic priests and currently handed by the same methods. Teachers quit without trial or black mark and go to another school district. When they’re finally taking to court they have a trail of victims in multiple schools.
So, yes, if we’re going to warn about priests and stranger danger we need to warn about the much more common teacher abuse.
What’s interesting is teacher abuse is much more often heterosexual yet still has a large number of male victims.
A few of those male victims even got child support decreases out of it
John Donne & the hookers….well, he couldn’t have been all THAT much of a player if he had to pay hookers….
Re: Herb’s wives
I’m not bored! I’m still trying to wrap my head around the concept of a handsome woman (it’s not a back-handed compliment, is it?), but in my opinion we’d all be lucky to look that good as we age.
“probably makes more of them to go to eating ice cream that even trying”
LOL, sushi and cookies here~
“Interesting that teacher assault has been added to the list of things we now caution teens about and that the offender is a woman.”
I’m glad they put that out there, because everyone knows about the male pedos but there needs to be increased awareness of how many female pedos are out there, not just the occasional high school scandal.
@Herb
Your pics are nice, except for the no smiles a personal liking of me. I can totally see you with one of the rocker chicks you like.
Very astute analysis. Why start agriculture if there’s already food all over the place? No agriculture, no civilization…..
Is funny how civilization is done with the accumulations of small things, like for example I don’t like Jam, we don’t do canning in my country why would we? Our fruit “season” is 9 months long and if we don’t have cherry’s we have pineapples, mango and many other fruits. There are other things like watering plants more often because there is no rain or the fact that gas in California is cheaper than water. My little brother couldn’t believe that one we don’t even track how much water we use back in DR pay like 5 dollars monthly for an unlimited supply, not in the house mind you but still close enough to make it comfortable, but then the gas is the expensive hard to get one… So lots of water and no cheap fuel doesn’t conduct to many advances. In the other hand having proper agriculture in Haiti is so damn hard and time consuming that they have no time to try and develop either is pretty much harvesting and trying to make sure you won’t starve in a few months, so balance is important on every thing, civilization and savagism are a very thin line away from each other, YMMV.
To clarify, you referred to the invite requests specifically as an example of supplicating males.
Well, what I believe I communicated was this: bringing up the fact that many men wrote you (Susan) to tell you how beautiful she is is evidence that many men are willing to supplicate.
Does that mean that each man that wrote Susan was supplicating? No.
But, at least for me, it does not change how that picture looked.
Bolick is well within that 20% and I was an alpha raised in captivity, but I’m still an alpha – it’s wired in the brain. Gotta keep stepping my game back up.
Her age takes her out of the 20% according to the list Roissy’s site has.
@Sai
Not a back-handed compliment at all. One of the great women of 20th century film, Katherine Hepburn, is my classic example of the handsome woman. They are women who are clearly female but their femininity is leavened with a touch of masculinity that speaks to character. They are not to be confused with tomboys or baby dykes who are cute when young but need to move on as they age.
Handsome is very much the province of a rare, almost extinct, kind of woman, the broad. As described in Kathleen Parker’s eulogy for Molly Ivins:
To a man looking for a partner and equal in life a great broad is, in my mind, the idea, but even in their heyday they were hard to find. Also, you had to bring it to land a broad. The three Rs, heroes of the ‘sphere they might be, but I doubt combined they could even turn a real broad’s head.
The broad is echoed in the numerous personals ads by women with phrases like “can you handle a real woman” or “I’m a challenge”. However, these women might think they’re broads but their bluster alone proves that lack the substance and joie de vivre, and the confidence and ease such attributes create, of a real broad. A broad never had to bluster and didn’t like men who did either.
So, no, handsome is not a back-handed compliment. Far from it.
Well, for the record, I believe that Roissy prefers Zooey Deschanel to Megan Fox, but, I get your point.
And, hopefully, any 14 year old girl that might be reading Roissy is also reading HUS for some clarity and context. And, as always, Roissy should be the cold shower and shot of whiskey that some people need. He is not there for basic sustenance. YMMV
@Passer By
Wow, I hadn’t seen that – she definitely changed her tune in a short time. Specifically, her description of being in relationships and “choosing not to marry” – is a 180 from what she said at my home. There she told us that her two previous relationships were both two years long with men 11 years younger than her. Both men ended the relationship because they wanted marriage and family and just couldn’t consider it with a woman so much older than themselves, and one so close to the end of her fertility. Both times, she was devastated.
@Susan
So, did she lie to your girls to get the response she wanted, did she lie in the interview to keep the “fabulous and single” gray-train going (or to keep her hamster happy), or are neither true and she’s saying what will make Kate the most money.
@Anacaona.
The CIA circulated photos of you to the single men, and told them you’re not there, and then the men started a revolution.
PS to my Bollick post.
I think the interview just proves my point. Bollick is telling herself whichever lie makes her feel better about her choices. That’s fine.
What’s not okay is to make herself feel better about choices she knows deep down she regrets (hence the self lying) is she’s lying to the women in Susan’s living room and their peers about how fabulous her life turned out so those women made the same choices. She’s doing it not because she believes it’ll make those women happy but to validate her own choices instead of admitting she was wrong.
That’s not okay.
So here’s an Indian actress from back in the day that I think is really attractive: http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-ZLVQ0SjrYK8/TueF5lM-JwI/AAAAAAAAIW0/RMKLk0nuYXU/s1600/smita+patil_poster.JPG
Girl I saw on Just for Laughs (she’s a 10 in my book): http://i48.tinypic.com/fla45z.png
Freckles: http://pessimiss.files.wordpress.com/2010/11/244926-freckles.jpg
Cute violinist: (though she usually looks a little too loopy for my tastes): http://watchusplaygames.files.wordpress.com/2012/04/skyrim-theme-lindsey-sterling-peter-hollens-one-voice-one-violin.jpg
Random pictures of INTJforum members: http://img705.imageshack.us/img705/5740/photo7lx.jpg
http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg192/Quantity08/Photoon2012-09-11at1556.jpg
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/s720x720/408174_10151388687724338_1043896822_n.jpg
https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/s720x720/582805_10151205735686942_1852076122_n.jpg
And, hopefully, any 14 year old girl that might be reading Roissy is also reading HUS for some clarity and context.
Or any woman with the dating wisdom of a 14 year old…;)
Wow, I hadn’t seen that – she definitely changed her tune in a short time. Specifically, her description of being in relationships and “choosing not to marry” – is a 180 from what she said at my home. There she told us that her two previous relationships were both two years long with men 11 years younger than her. Both men ended the relationship because they wanted marriage and family and just couldn’t consider it with a woman so much older than themselves, and one so close to the end of her fertility. Both times, she was devastated.
Go hamster go!
I think is between the lines the way she says “I would still want a man that is a good father while not saying she is comfortable with no having kids…yeah honey The Nile is not just a river on Egypt. The sad thing is that she could had said that her message was that if you want marriage and children you should place in on your list of goals and not imagine “It will just happen” But then is not in the nature of many women admitting defeat and she is getting a lot of money out of it, that increases her status she certainly won’t take her back to that, but then the women hearing her speak are the ones that are going to suffer the most. *lesigh*
Another lesson mothers do matter if her mother would have pressured her to marry as she did with her career she would had done so, IMO. Most of the women I know that ended up childless or spinsters have their mothers not doing their job of annoying the hell out of them because “they wanted to be modern and cool and didn’t wanted to shame their kids” not a good way to have grand-kids if you ask me.
The CIA circulated photos of you to the single men, and told them you’re not there, and then the men started a revolution.
Heh I meant Ancient Egypt a great civilization on the middle of the desert, but this was really funny.
So, did she lie to your girls to get the response she wanted, did she lie in the interview to keep the “fabulous and single” gray-train going (or to keep her hamster happy), or are neither true and she’s saying what will make Kate the most money.
I think she told the truth to Susan but now she has a book deal and probably hired a PR that told him how to handle this to make the most money out of it. Is not okay of course and she will led stray many women or at least give them hamster’s food to their already idiotic choices but then how many public figures just care about the image more than the substance? Almost all of them, she just finally found a way to join them at the top, YMMV.
@Ms. Walsh #768:
“@Obsidian
I think you’re a wee bit out of date on the sphere. Roissy and Roosh are still front and center, and most people think of Game blogs more than MRA blogs. But the cast of characters has changed a lot. I won’t list them, but they’re easily enough identified. One way is to look for the “Evil Patriarchy” pentagram badge that represents Roosh’s official network of Game bloggers.
For violent loonies, you’ll find the crew at a blog named Dalrock is Exhibit A.”
O: Thank you for proving my point – Dalrock is at best, a *minor player* when it comes to both Game AND MRA issues. Paul Elam, say what you will about him, Dalrock simply ain’t.
Rollor Tomassi, et al, again, are *bit players*. Moreover, I am very familiar with the goings on in the sphere, since I keep abreast of Ferd’s updated listings of his now defunct In Mala Fide blog. Oh, and btw, even Ferd didn’t do what you have claimed has happened to you by unamed actors in the Manosphere. Yet again another point in my favor. Keep in mind that this comes from one who has seen at least as much “rough treatment” from players in the Manosphere as you have; for example, Ferd came at me something terrible because I called out the White Guys for what they were:
The Plight Of The Marginal White Male
http://obsidianraw.bravejournal.com/entry/62391
Let’s try this again: Ms. Walsh, who among the big hitters of the Manosphere – Roissy, Roosh, The Spearhead, A Voice For Men, et al, has threatened physical violence against YOU? Who, among these major figures, has actually written posts calling for a repeal of the Womens’ Vote? Who, among these major figures, has suggested violence against Women? I need names and links, madam. Cite the evidence or turn it loose.
Dalrock, Rollo Tomassi, et al, they’re small potatos and you know it. They’re not selling books internationally, making waves to the extent that the Femosphere specifically addresses them to say nothing of garnering national and even international mainstream press coverage. I need you to respond specifically to the questions I have posed to you, or else I need you to drop this line of argument.
O.
@Herb
I just learned one more thing. Thanks.
“The CIA circulated photos of you to the single men, and told them you’re not there, and then the men started a revolution.
”
LMAO
Ana,
“Almost all of them, she just finally found a way to join them at the top, YMMV.”
If she truly does value marriage and family, as she told Susan’s group, she’s not at the top. There are practical barriers between the real, breathing Kate Bolick and I, but there are Bolicks in my SMP.
Some came down off the high horse and have married reasonably well if late, some rode the serial monogamy glide path into a comfy defacto marriage after several trade-ups (one of my favs just tied the knot last week on a 4-year LTR), some are ball-busters who don’t really value marriage and family much but at times might doubt their choices, some are determined to blame other people for their problems until the bitter end, and some are making the necessary changes like I am to find the connection.
That’s who I’m currently meeting right now, and having fun doing it. We would both have to “settle” to make it work, in that our lives would have been better if we’d pulled the trigger in our twenties and invested the intervening years in making our marriages work, but that’s a statement about the value of good marriages, not our value as people.
At this point in our lives, both my own and the women I’m meeting, we’ve made the decision that we’d be better off with a partner than alone, and that’s why we’re making the changes necessary to make that happen. Some men may MGTOW and some women may form communes, but there are people making different decisions.
With Regard to Ms. Kate Bolick:
I have no problem in the least with her lifestyle or life choices; this is a free country.
The problem I have with her is one, I don’t read The Atlantic so I can be besotted by Ms. Bolick, Ms. Rosin or anyone else’s supposed “problems”; I read it because I am looking for reasonably high brow content on the issues of the day that, at the end of the day, are just a weebit more important than why a 40-something Woman can’t get it together on the relationship/love front.
I also have problems with Ms. Bolick because, unlike those who complain about the Manosphere, she and her cohorts can and have literally held the rest of the culture and attendant society hostage with their drivel. Nobody’s making anyone here read Roosh or imbibe Roissy, or sit through hours and hours of W.F. Price or Paul Elam; on the other hand, none of us can get away from the bullcrap of the Bolicks and Roisns of the world, and in my neck of the woods its made doubly worse, since a certain cohort of Sistas do the exact same thing.
Another reason why I have a problem with Bolick is because despite all the outward appearances of a high brow existence and orientation, in truth she’s a spoiled brat of a princess who threw away at least one and more likely several chances at happy relationships with good guys because “something was missing” – then attempted to blame her lovelorn fate on “players and deadbeats”. And I have huge problems with Ms. Walsh not only for cosigning all of that crap, but also for coming down like Thor’s Hammer on Ms. Jessica Shairer, who I will go on record in saying right now that I have far and away more respect for than I ever will for Ms. Bolick. Why?
Because if you will kindly go back to the NYT piece that featured Ms. Shairer, she made no bones about the fact that no one held a gun to her head and make the decisions she did; she accepted full responsibility for them, end of. Not so for Ms.Bolick – her meandering, multi-page spillage seeked to blame anyone and everyone BUT herself as to why she’s in the predicament she finds herself in today. Agaiin, that Ms. Walsh cosigned this, even while knowing full well that Ms. Bolick changed her tune from the time she hungout at Ms. Walsh’s crib to her appearance on the Today Show, well, that’s a net loss of respect points for me several times over.
That Ms. Bolick is willing and able to capitalize on her supposed “singleness” – with Ms. Walsh’s blessing no less – tells me a heck of a lot about both, to be frank. And the truth is, that Ms. Bolick is nothing to emulate. If anything, she is someone to be pitied, and I mean that.
Now let’s examine the real reasons as to why there will be a glut of Ms. Bolicks moving forward. Ms. Walsh keeps banging the drum for the notion that there won’t be enough “suitable Men” for the Ms. Bolicks of the world – but a quick perusal of Bolick’s article, written in her own words, tells us why she’s where she is:
Because she sucks as a person. That’s why.
You see Ms. Walsh – and here again I have to bring in my particular experience as a Black Man – I know all too well the playbook Ms. Bolick is going by. There are plenty of “suitable guys” who stay as far away from them as possible; as I’ve said before, in my neck of the woods it’s been going on for decades, easily. Brothas simply vote with their feet. Many of these supposed “accomplished” Women couldn’y think their way out of a wet paper bag if their lives depended on it; so rigid is their thinking, so vapid is their worldview, that guys – especially, precisely the guys they often want – get the heck outta Dodge before they even come on the scene. I know many, many Brothas, professional, White colar types who avoid their counterparts like the proverbial plague – and the Blue collar Brothas ain’t far behind. The Drama-To-Booty Ratio is way too high to be bothered; Ratchets will do just fine.
This takes me to the exchange between you Ms. Walsh, Ms. Plain Jane and Ted, about whether a Man’s living says something about him, “characterwise”. Well, been there, done that too, and I say, that if a Woman thinks, that a Man being a tradesman is “beneath her” and the guy with the degree and White collar gig is a “better person” then by all means, she has my blessing to pursue said guys. Tyler Perry’s a very wealthy Man today because his many plays and films have shown just how utter false the notion is, that merely going to school and pushing a pencil for a living somehow makes you a “good” Man. I’ve personally seen many Sistas go this route and usually get burned, badly – then all of a suidden, “Black Men Ain’t Sh*t”. No, YOU “ain’t sh*t” and like attracts like.
In that we are seeing a kind of Quicknening of the Spinsters in our time, I for one welcome just how many can and will jam themselves up along these lines; they reveal their own characters by doing the Kate Bolick thing.
O.
Ted,
I appreciate the encouragement, especially you making an exception to offer it, but I gotta disagree here. I’m an INFP. I’d love nothing more than to live in an ideal world, but life happens in the real one, and that one has cultural constraints that one needs to be aware of to function effectively.
A big-boned woman with a 1.0 hip-to-waist might get herself into the best shape in the world and bring every one of Susan’s 25 politically incorrect strategies to bear, but its not happening with me. Likewise, its highly unlikely that a man with my prestige is going to do it for Bolick, no matter how much she matures as a person. Luckily for me, I can do (and am doing) something about that prestige, but until I do, it’s a non-starter and its not Bolick’s fault.
@Ms. J #468:
“Could be; I have no stats on it. I do think that here are women willing to forego ego validation in exchange for the freedom of not having to make compromises. I also think that better genes (mostly med student at some sperm banks) are available at the bank than at the bar. I can understand going that route.”
O: There are no studies that one set of genes are inherently better than another, unless you know something the rest of us don’t? The whole “designer baby” deal is more marketing than anything else. Surely, you must know this, Ms. J. Not that there’s anything wrong with that…
“IVF is not the typical procedure unless the woman has infertility issues like blocked tubes. Normally, a woman would wait to ovulate, go to the doctor, and use the “turkey baster.” It’s non-surgical. Sometimes a narrow canula is inserted directly into the uterus, not just the vagina. That’s as unpleasant as having an IUD inserted.”
O: Nevertheless it don’t come cheap, and failure rates are fairly high. My guess is that we’ll see more Baby Mamas the old fashioned way in the decades to come – we’ve already got fairly reliable stats and data that this is indeed the case among the White middle class.
“I love Sasha! Bruno was sort of disappointing but that scene cracks me up no matter how many times I see it. I think the African adoption is a Hollywood thing. In my neck of the woods, it’s China, Eastern Europe and South America that are the major “exporters.””
O: Sure it is, and is meant as a kind of “statement” against racism/colonialism/whatever. Cohen was brilliant in pointing out just how self-serving, narcissistic and pandering the whole enterprise truly is.
“When I was having infertility issues, we looked at adoption as an option, it’s not as easy as one would think. American kids tend to have health issues; foreign kids are hard to get.”
O: There’s also the race issue; The Economist did a writeup on this as I recall, and showed that the least likely adopted kids were Black boys; they are the ones who tend to languish in the foster care system and “age out”. Like anything else in life, Baby Market is just that, a market – with winners, and losers.
“I think it’s pretty important. Even as young men, my sons really need their dad.”
O: That you feel this way is to be commended; but that’s not what I’m saying. A society shows what it values by the laws it creates. Simply put, Men have no reproductive (and by extension, paternal) rights that any court is bound to respect. Hence why so many Black Men, for example, quietly vote with their feet on these issues – and slowly, more White Men are following suit…
O.
If she truly does value marriage and family, as she told Susan’s group, she’s not at the top.
This was not a personal assessment I don’t consider her at the top personally.
I meant about the fact that she was always full of ambitions and accomplishments, being famous nowadays is the ultimate proof of status so in writing this article and twisting it to look like she is embracing the single by choice she is gaining that and I don’t see someone like her not taking the chance out of principles. I’m sure in her mind she is doing a favor to all those women that feel inadequate because they haven’t found a man that wants to marry them, she is making them feel better instead of ashamed and we all know shame is the worst thing you can make anyone feel so she is a hero now! /sarcasm.
Susan,
There’s a woman I know who’s otherwise right in my sweet spot who’s currently couging it up with a guy (and he’s very much still a guy, not a man) 5-10 years younger. It’s actually pretty impressive to watch her display just about every one of your 25 politically incorrect strategies in his company. Just enjoying a flirty friendzone with her for now – not orbiting, but our social circles intersect regularly.
interesting to see the Bolick interview with Steve Paikin that Passerby put up.
From the video: Bolick says she presumed that if and when she married, there would always be excellent, attractive men available for her to choose from.
She also says that as she’s aged, both social norms and economic pressures have been at work which change the way we think about marriage.
IOW and translated, Bolick is saying that as she gets older, the pool of men she finds attractive is shrinking because she doesn’t have to marry just anyone or settle. Besides, most of the available men are unemployed or not well to do (read: no six-figure income) and therefore are not attractive.
@Herb.
The women I’m enamored with are :
1) Madeleine Stowe (Last of the Mohicans)
2) Marie-Louise Parker (Weeds)
3) Oona Chaplin (Game of Thrones – she’s the love interest of Rob Stark)
4) Michelle Rodriguez (Not beautiful she is, but oh so captivating)
@ Ramble
I’ve always suspected Roissy of being a beta male on the inside…
@Ms. Walsh #661:
“Then the question is: Are the women lying or might we have the big picture wrong?”
O: Is it possible that it could be a bit of both?
“I have provided several posts, exhaustively researched and analyzed, that prove the big picture in the manosphere is wrong.”
O: What you have provided is, by your own admission *several studies and researches that focus on particular aspects of the SMP that are of import to you* – something quite different than that of the wider Manosphere, I’m afraid…
“The 80/20 apex fallacy is bunk.”
O: On the college campus? Maybe.
“The “all women are sluts” is bunk.”
O: Who’s made this claim in the Manosphere? Has Roos said this? Has Welmer said it? Has Paul Elam said it? Who, Ms. Walsh? I need names, specifics, links. Or drop it.
“All women want alpha? Bunk.”
O: Again: WHO has said this? Please explain?
“Premarital sex destroys marital bonding? Bunk.”
I’ve never seen this claim made. Who’s said this?
“I could literally go on and list another hundred items. If men want to fool themselves and follow advice that amounts to a massive DLV (yes, you heard that right), that’s no concern of mine. But I won’t allow the spreading of that misinformation here.”
O: Why not? You certainly allow for the spreading of *tilted information* to be spread here…
“Hooking Up Smart: Where Dirty Lies Perish”
O: And Juking the Stats Lives…
O.
@ MCB & Ms. Walsh #727:
“No Man’s Land is preferable for some women than Bad Man’s Land, or Bitter Man’s Land, or Boring Comic Book Geek’s Land, or Sub-Par-Man’s Land and they shouldn’t be demonized if they have faced that choice squarely and made it.”
O: Yes, but the problem is, the whole of society isn’t held hostage by Boring Comic Book Guys; we aren’t forced to suffer through MSM pieces penned and by Sub-Par Guys; the Today Show isn’t giving morning drive time to Bitter Guys, and so on. But this happens ALL THE TIME with Women though; and that’s what I’m talking about. I want them to STFU and sit down. Is that too much to ask?
“Thanks, my sentiments too. If people take responsibility for their choices and are honest about them, I say to each his own. I will admit that Kate B. hasn’t been 100% honest – she has adopted some feminist rhetoric – but I can’t entirely blame her. She’ll have the last laugh, and I bet she gets married in the end.”
O: I’m not too sure about that; what a lot of Women really don’t seem to get is that the Internet has totally wrecked the game; guys now know, without a shadow of a doubt, what the deal is with a not insiginificant number of ladies now, and are quietly voting with their feet.
I say we’ll be here discussing Ms. Bolick this time next year, as she still crows on and on about the joys of being single…
You heard it here…
O.
It’s just easier than saying the status gap is likely too great. I once had the prestige to be in Bolick’s league. I do not currently.
Desi,
Don’t sell yourself short and underestimate your value.
@Marellus
Madeleine Stowe (Last of the Mohicans)
Get off!! She’s mine…those eyes…*sigh*
Bollock has a problem in that whoever she does end up with will have to be fabulous…otherwise, why the hell did she wait?
Tricky, veeeery tricky
Wow, I hadn’t seen that – she definitely changed her tune in a short time. Specifically, her description of being in relationships and “choosing not to marry” – is a 180 from what she said at my home. There she told us that her two previous relationships were both two years long with men 11 years younger than her. Both men ended the relationship because they wanted marriage and family and just couldn’t consider it with a woman so much older than themselves, and one so close to the end of her fertility. Both times, she was devastated.
Not hard to get. Most people have a tendency to make necessity a virtue. It is simply the psychological trick of squashing the cognitive dissonance of not being able to get what was previously desired.
There she told us that her two previous relationships were both two years long with men 11 years younger than her. Both men ended the relationship because they wanted marriage and family and just couldn’t consider it with a woman so much older than themselves, and one so close to the end of her fertility. Both times, she was devastated.
And I’ll add this a good example of an intelligent, highly educated woman being stupid about male preferences vis a vis going the distance. I find it hard to sympathize with a woman who would actually delude herself that man 11 years her junior would be interested in her for marriage and family.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/07/24/demi-moore-heartbroken-ashton-kutcher-mila-kunish-romance_n_1698393.html
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