He’s a Keeper
This weekend Mr. HUS and I celebrated our 28th wedding anniversary. That sounds like an awfully long time, doesn’t it? It’s flown by, and I still feel 25 around him. Saturday night we toasted to another 28, which would put us at 83 and 85. I think we’ll get there.
People always say what hard work marriage is, but I haven’t found it so. There are challenges, even crises, but that would also be true if I were single. Having a partner to share my life with has made it better. Much better.
I attribute this success primarily to one thing:
I chose well.
Michelangelo chose the best Carrara marble for David, strong and pure. Had he chosen some attractive stone full of flaws, it wouldn’t have lasted. To build something that will endure, you must start with the best raw material.
Attractive and High EQ
The first time I ever set eyes on my husband, it was in an auditorium filled with 650 newly arrived students. He was several rows in front of me, down to the right. The first thing I noticed was his face. Attractive but not movie star quality, he had a gentle and attentive expression as he chatted with the person sitting next to him. His eyes were a pale blue green, with crows’ feet at the sides. Tall and lanky, he had a distinctive style. Though casually dressed, he looked very put together. (He would later show up in the Japanese edition of GQ in a series of candid photos depicting fashion on American campuses.) His hair was longish. Overall, the impression I had was of a very earnest man.
This first impression was eerily accurate, and still holds 30 years later.
High IQ
Mr. HUS is very smart. Smarter than me, although he says that his intelligence is “sharp points,” while mine is “round.” He helped me through Statistics, I helped him through Marketing Strategy.
He’s witty and has a great laugh. Eliciting that laugh is one of life’s great pleasures for me. He has great intellectual curiosity. During our relationship, we have had many comfortable silences, but at the same time have never been at a loss for interesting conversation when we felt like it. If all else fails, “John or Paul?” is always worth discussing further. As an INTJ, he should not be a perfect match for an ENFJ, but it works.
Family Man
My husband identifies strongly with his role as a provider. This was true even before we had kids, even when I earned a higher salary than he did. Though he works in an industry characterized by long hours, he has always put family first, refusing to go in on the weekends, and declining two job opportunities that would have sharply reduced his time with our children. Still, he is a hard worker and has instilled the necessity of purpose and productivity in them.
He has been a strong and steady presence in their lives, and they love and respect him enormously. They seek his counsel on all important matters, and my daughter trusts his judgment about men without fail.
There has not been a day in 28 years when my husband did not exchange “I love you’s” with each of us. He has defended and stood up for our family in myriad ways over the years.
Strong Character
My husband is honest and trustworthy. I have never had cause to doubt his loyalty or faithfulness.
- The only options he has ever referred to having were either put or call.
- He has never flirted with anyone under 80 or over 6 in my presence.
- Though he would never attempt to make me feel jealous, he enjoys when he orders the better dish in a restaurant and I experience Menu Envy.
- He does not tolerate temper tantrums, and he’s not much good with sulking either.
- He does not tolerate disrespect.
- He is direct and forthright, and he expects the same in return. No games, no manipulation. WYSIWYG.
- He has never criticized my personal appearance.
- He has never mocked, embarrassed or shamed me in public.
- He never dismisses my opinions, ideas, or concerns.
My husband had a…wild life with drugs, music, traveling, and it sounds like a significant number of sexual partners. He is definitely on the Alpha side of the spectrum…Unfortunately settled down life with me turned out to not make him as happy as he expected. I seemed to be more in love and attracted to him after the wedding while he became disappointed and unhappy. He started spending most of his time away from me…he started seeming distant and irritable. He wouldn’t really talk to me so one day I went through his things. I found something he’d written saying he found married life boring and he was thinking about having an affair…. I don’t have any evidence that he actually has, but he now keeps all his devices locked.…I would try to have talks about our relationship, but I would inevitably get emotional and start crying. He has no tolerance for this and usually just turns on the TV or just leaves the house. He also said it made him not attracted to me being depressed and complaining, and he didn’t want to be around me or have sex with me.
My advice is for this woman to understand that she may have married unwisely, to realize that the situation is ultimately out of her hands, and to accept that she needs to allow her husband to decide if he is willing to make the sacrifice required to domesticate himself or not.”
{ 212 comments… read them below or add one }
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Congratulations on your 28th anniversary! Your husband is a stellar man.
Congratulations Susan. You’re husband sounds awesome. Can he be cloned?
“His hair was longish. ”
I’ve often said longer hair makes many men more attractive.
” He has never criticized my personal appearance.”
“He never dismisses my opinions, ideas, or concerns.”
YES! Negs don’t work in relationships. The only thing relationship-negging made me want to do is find someone who appreciated me as I am, not become a “better woman” for the a-hole who was negging me.
Your kids are lucky to have such loving parents. This gives kids the best start in life.
“sharp points,” while mine is “round.”
I think men generally can concentrate more than women. This is not necessarily a good thing, such as when it comes to coding for 24 hours straight while living on Ding Dongs. I, for example, cannot drive, talk and listen to the radio. It’s too much. The radio has to go off.
Women can do several things at once. Men can’t.
“Mr. HUS is very smart. Smarter than me, although he says that his intelligence is “sharp points,” while mine is “round.””
Daahaam.
Smooth as the other side of the pillow, this one.
“It’s all about raw material. You can’t make a man worthy. A good husband was a good man the day you met him, and long before that. Choose well.”
I AGREE. However not long ago commenters here were arguing just the opposite. That a relationship can help a man reach his potential. When I posted the urban wisdom, “never fall in love with a man’s potential” I was labeled a materialistic gold-digger. My point was not (and is never) about money. Its about what a man is doing with his life in the now. How is he showing up in his responsibilities? What’s his vision and what steps is he taking to reach it? What is his daily routine? This goes for women as well. In other words, you have to look for what people are about in the present, not their big, fantasmagorical dreams for the future.
Now as far as this woman,
“My husband had a…wild life with drugs, music, traveling, and it sounds like a significant number of sexual partners. He is definitely on the Alpha side of the spectrum…Unfortunately settled down life with me turned out to not make him as happy as he expected. I seemed to be more in love and attracted to him after the wedding while he became disappointed and unhappy. He started spending most of his time away from me…he started seeming distant and irritable. He wouldn’t really talk to me so one day I went through his things. I found something he’d written saying he found married life boring and he was thinking about having an affair…. I don’t have any evidence that he actually has, but he now keeps all his devices locked.
…I would try to have talks about our relationship, but I would inevitably get emotional and start crying. He has no tolerance for this and usually just turns on the TV or just leaves the house. He also said it made him not attracted to me being depressed and complaining, and he didn’t want to be around me or have sex with me.”
…………Blah, blah, blah. She’s doing it wrong. Stop following your husband around like a lost puppy panting for affection and get out there and live your life to the fullest! When he sees you’ve got it going on without him, it might make him sit up and take notice of the woman other people are noticing.
And if not, cut your losses and move on. No children so no real loss.
@ Bob Wallace, “I think men generally can concentrate more than women. This is not necessarily a good thing, such as when it comes to coding for 24 hours straight while living on Ding Dongs. I, for example, cannot drive, talk and listen to the radio. It’s too much. The radio has to go off.”
—
I’m the same way. I think it has more to do with nurture than nature; culture, the manner/envionment in which one was raised and just individual proclivities (which might be genetic) than it does male/female differences. Also, age. Older people don’t seem to be able to function in the over-stimulated environment that our young people do today.
“Women can do several things at once. Men can’t.”
I don’t know about that. See above.
@Bob Wallace
One of my favorite things to do in the car is listen to an audiobook. It’s a great way to get more books “read” while I’m commuting somewhere. Several men have told me they just can’t do it. My brother told me that every time he has tried he’s missed his exit, haha.
@Plain Jane
It’s wise to fall for a man and commit before he has reached his peak in terms of profession, or even looks. (Personally, I think the looks sweet spot for men is 28, YMMV.) However, if he doesn’t have excellent character then there’s no point. That’s the most important piece – character. The biggest mistake women make is pairing up (and then marrying!) men they never feel secure with. I’ve known these women – they’re always hoping he isn’t cheating and won’t cheat. Why do you think so many women snoop through texts and email? I have zero interest in looking at my husband’s texts, they’re mostly to me.
There are two criteria:
His character and his love for you. If you have to wonder if he loves you…he doesn’t. Not enough. Never, ever commit to a man who you aren’t sure would take a bullet for you. That’s my advice.
I guess you did choose pretty well. Congratulations!
Congratulations, Susan. I hope the two of you can celebrate at least 30 more.
Congratulations to Mr and Mrs Walsh!
“If you have to wonder if he loves you…he doesn’t. Not enough. Never, ever commit to a man who you aren’t sure would take a bullet for you.”
You mean no instilling dread?!?! Susan, you’re a lady boner killer! If the divorce rate reaches 100% we know who to blame.
Yay!! Congrats Susan and Mr. Walsh.
Choosing well really is key.
@ Susan Walsh
“Several men have told me they just can’t do it. My brother told me that every time he has tried he’s missed his exit, haha.”
Her: Babble babble babble.”
Me: “Huh?”
Her: “Are you even listening to me?”
Me: “Yes, of course, I’m, uh, *$&% I just missed the exit!”
Congratulations to both of you!
“However, if he doesn’t have excellent character then there’s no point. That’s the most important piece – character. ”
I totally agree with this. Men who have a solid character +intelligence (i.e. are analytical to their core) are able to stay afloat even when the job is no longer there. I can think of several men who were able to overcome layoffs and long term unemployment by staying ahead of trends and who were self-aware to see potential pitfalls, or learn from mistakes.
To a truly intelligent+ hot + inspirational couple, Happy Anniversary, and many many more happy years!
Congratulations Susan and Mr HUS.
The first thing my father told me when I got married was “I hope you beat us” Mom and him had been together for 36 years more or less…so I’m on the race to beat you
I will agree with PJ *The pigs flying means we need stronger umbrellas* in the is not necessarily a gender thing to be able to hubby can multitask pretty well but he learned it at college my guess is that men that can’t never actually have to so they didn’t acquired that trait. I can multitask but if I spent too much time without needing to do it (like in a boring job) I find it hard at the beginning to do it again.
Congrats Susan and Hubby
“Michelangelo chose the best Carrara marble for David, strong and pure. Had he chosen some attractive stone full of flaws, it wouldn’t have lasted.” Actually the piece of marble had been worked on (poorly) before Michelangelo got too it. It was considered by many to be ruined and unusable. That is the piece of marble Michelango used to make the statue of David.
Hilarious!
Congratulations Susan and Mr HUS!
He looks good Susan.. He has a nice face.. Fit! Looks younger than 58..
Must be all that chasing ya ’round the bedroom that’s done it.
‘Course, the regular swimming probably helped a bit too.
Susan,
I think this is my very favorite entry from you so far. I love it, and congratulations!
Love,
“Jacqueline” aka You-Know-Who
Congratgulations.
What a nice tribute to your husband! That was written with such r-e-s-p-e-c-t! That’s what its all about.
Lucky YOU!
Curious as to why you thought I wouldn’t like the VD link. It’s dead on the money.
Congratulation, Susan and Mr HUS, and best wishes for another 28 happy years!
“And don’t be naive, emotional withdrawal is a form of pressure too.”
ROFL.
@Desiderius
Only because it paints alpha in a negative light, which is what we were discussing. In fairness, Vox sees himself as Sigma, similar to Alpha, and in the full version shares his own experience. Worth a read.
@Dana Smith
Thanks and welcome!
Hair? You women want hair? I guess that leaves me out…
But remember, baldness is caused by testosterone. Real Men can grow a bald spot.
Ion,
“I totally agree with this. Men who have a solid character +intelligence (i.e. are analytical to their core) are able to stay afloat even when the job is no longer there. ”
Having solid character and good intelligence doesn’t necessarily mean one will be “analytical to their core”. There are few humans who are that deeply analytical, and yet many who are still of solid character and high intelligence.
Real Men can grow a bald spot.
We want more leading men to show their shiny heads on Hollywood and magazine covers 
As a baldy lover I cosign this.
Maybe you should start a Real Men have bald spots movement and see how the fat acceptance movement react to that. Why Edward Cullen or Christan Grey are no represented by bald men? That is discrimination
Mike M: “But remember, baldness is caused by testosterone. Real Men can grow a bald spot.”
Lol, my dad is 50 and still has full head of thick, curly locks. I have thick hair too.
@ Mike M
As much as I know that balding is a natural part of the aging process for men, I always hope that I end up marrying a man that will keep his hair as he ages. Men that go grey, while keeping their hair, tend to be very hot older guys. A man with a full head of hair is so sexy.
Silver foxes FTW!
This is such a lovely post Susan, congratulations.
I only have one concern about this post, I can see you’ve had quite a priviledged life, and I am not putting down your success for it, but marriage is not always easy.
My parents have been married for almost 40 years, and they love each other deeply, however it hasn’t been easy at all. My older siblings suffer from mental disorders, my parents belong to two different religions and for the past 10 years, my dad has had to work outside of our homeland for 5 years because of politics in my country. We also moved twice across continents in the past 2 years.
Now, tell me how you make that easy.
You might have chosen a wonderful husband, but if life is hard, your marriage is not going to be a piece of cake.
I admire my folks, but I know it ain’t been easy.
As much as I know that balding is a natural part of the aging process for men, I always hope that I end up marrying a man that will keep his hair as he ages. Men that go grey, while keeping their hair, tend to be very hot older guys. A man with a full head of hair is so sexy.
When I was your age, I used to think I’d be repulsed if my prospective husband went bald. DH hasn’t, but I doubt I’d care much if he did. They say that, for every decade a man lives, his chances of baldness go up by 10%. Of all 20-something men, 20% are bald, 30% of 30-somethings, etc. Over half of men my age are bald. If I were in the market for a new man, I doubt hair would be high on my list of “must-haves.”
I’m with Guavaberry. Don’t get me wrong, this is a really sweet post, but I don’t agree that marriage is always easy if you choose the right person. My grandma says that there are 10 “divorces” in every marriage, implying that you have to be willing to work through the tough times to keep it together, and be aware that there WILL be tough times. She and my grandpa have been married for 57 years, so I trust what she says.
Having said that, I read Vox’s post and did get the sense that the reader picked a guy who wasn’t interested in settling down. Never a good choice.
@SW
Congrats on 3 decades of tedious, boring monogamy.
Not bad… by your hubby’s appearance, attire, and pose, he appears to be rapping yuppie-style. He’s only missing the flatcap, which I could loan him if need be.
Your grandmother’s right, Olive.
This line is further proof that the idea of consciously eliciting the kind of male behavior they want simply doesn’t occur to women. Of course a woman can make a man worthy. But usually she has absolutely no idea how to, especially if she’s a Western woman.
@Susan
Congratulations!
@Plain Jane
“That a relationship can help a man reach his potential”
There is a difference between a character (which won’t change much) and a potential. I changed a lot under influence of my wife, for example. Frankly, before I met her, i was just a clueless kid. Once I met her I felt the urge to find a job and even to dress better
I know also my closest friend, who changed so much under influence of his wife, that when I met him, he feels like another person.
But the key point here is [b]can[/b], which means that this is pretty much a gamble.
Heck, and I was promising myself not to comment here again
@Höllenhund
“This line is further proof that the idea of consciously eliciting the kind of male behavior they want simply doesn’t occur to women. Of course a woman can make a man worthy. But usually she has absolutely no idea how to, especially if she’s a Western woman.”
…I admit it. I don’t know how I’d get a man to do what I wanted, without money (that I don’t have) or threats (that I can’t back up). I could just ask, but he could just say no.
Hi Susan,
congratulations on the anniversary.
Given your description of him, I’m not surprised that things worked out so well for you both. I wish you the thirty+ more years together in happiness.
Maybe watch the stress levels generated by this site…
Though perhaps the forum will help keep the comment threads less contentious (and tediously repetitive at times), let’s find out
@Suzan.
Congratulations.
I can forgive a woman just about anything, if she can make lasagna.
@Sai
femininity in a woman brings out the best aspects in the man in my experience, maybe that’s just me but I don’t think so. nagging, on the other hand, just causes a reduction in listening. Keep it positive and feminine, you’ll be fine…BW
@@J
“I doubt hair would be high on my list of “must-haves.””
curses! foiled again!
as a man with copious head hair (with more salt than pepper), I feel that I should stand up to the old bald = high testosterone trope. IIRC baldness is about intolerence of the hair folicle to testosterone… just sayin’ *blows good natured raspberry*
@Just1X
You make it sound so easy, you really do. Maybe it IS just that easy.
(crud, bus is here)
It’s never been easier to be a bald guy, because the shaved head look is sexy. There’s something badass about it that women find hot. I think it’s worth 2 SMV points, compared to keeping remaining hair long.
@Guavaberry
That’s true. When life is very hard, marriage cannot be easy. Living under constant stress of any kind makes people unhappy, and that obviously strains relationships, including marriage. For me, marriage has made life easier – that’s really what I was trying to say. It’s a net plus to my quality of life, and I hope my husband would say the same. I recognize that for others, it might add to life’s burdens.
@Sai,
I left a story pour le courage des autres (toi, en effet) on the sex thread.
@Susan
Michael Chiklis – The Shield – ass kicking mofo
Michael Chiklis – Soldier – male pattern baldness with pony tail – WTF!
keep it short, or shave it. Bruce Willis did the world of men a huge favour when he bared all. He proved that it was a good look, whether forced by circumstance or chosen.
To clarify, I attribute the success of being happily married after 28 years to having chosen well. I did not mean to imply that marriage is not a challenge with a good partner. My husband might well say that marriage has been hard work, and I believe that I am a good partner.
I did not say that marriage is easy, I said that for me it hasn’t been hard work relative to what life would be like if I were single. But life is hard work. This is the concept that my kids found hardest to accept as they grew up. They kept wanting life to be good and easy, like perfection is a destination. I can remember them saying things like “I just want things to be different” when times were hard.
I’ve heard people say, “Life is hard, and then you die.” In my case, marrying a good man has improved my life immeasurably, and I shudder to think what my life would have been like if I had married a man like the one Vox’s reader chose.
The intended point of the post is this:
Your mate’s character will go a long way toward determining the quality of your marriage.
That goes for both sexes.
A woman cannot elicit good character. She may elicit the behavior she wants – Vox’s reader said that her alpha husband was head over heels for her and very demonstrative at one time. But if the raw material isn’t there, the relationship will crumble. A good relationship requires good character in both parties. If that is present, then the love of another can certainly inspire people to be their best selves. The raw material must be there.
Congratulations on your 28th anniversary! Your happy marriage is wonderful for you and the best gift you can give your children. Also, Mr HUS is very attractive.
“And don’t be naive, emotional withdrawal is a form of pressure too.”
What is funny about this?
I still remember those “talks about our relationship” thing from long ago. I never understood the need or desire of a woman to irritate me. To a large extent this is why today I clearly state that, “I’m not interested in a relationship. I’m just in it for the sex.” And I mean it. Women need to get their priorities straight – to a man as long as there is great sex, the relationship is fine. When she whines about things that’s just going to piss me off and she’s not going to be happy with the results, because I’m not getting sex, and so I’m not happy, so I’ll go elsewhere to be happy. Simple…
Women need to understand the simple fact that it’s women who spend hours combing through every possible scenario to determine if there is anything wrong with a relationship. If he’s had sex today – he’s happy. If you want to talk rather than have sex, he isn’t going to be happy. It really is that simple.. This is why I’m not interested in relationships, that way I get the sex without all of the angsting…
Congratgulations!
Congratulations Mr. HUS and Susan. I can’t think of anyone I know left alive that have been married more than 15 years. I myself won’t see a 28 year anniversary until if/when I get to be 70 years old.
I think Olive is right and a break is in order. I believe you have me on Twitter Susan, so if anyone wants to find me, feel free to pass them that or my email.
Cooper – keep on keepin on brother. You can take your new Red Pill knowledge and integrate it into your life WITHOUT sacrificing yourself in the process. It gets easier, although IMO more complicated…
Susan – thanks for sharing your virtual living room. Seeing that you get physically ill from reading the comments here was too much for me. If this blog is truly causing you that kind of discomfort, perhaps Mr. HUS is right. All I know is I don’t want to be a part of that, but at the same time I can’t help but throw in my $.02. It isn’t that I think you are wrong, it is that I can’t help but feel like you are working from a very narrow perception of the big picture, and despite your good intentions I think trying to cover over the core issues will do nothing but delay the inevitable. I fully believe that women MUST face their nature the same way men have been forced to face our own in the last 40 or so years. Not to feel ashamed for what it is, but so that they can understand why they feel and act the way they do when it makes no logical sense. I’m sorry that you seem to view my and other men’s attempts here to convey that message as “woman bashing” or threatening behavior. I can understand it though, as there is nothing in the world as harsh as looking at yourself in the mirror without the protection of willful ignorance. But to me, it is only through that kind of soul searching that a person can truly find peace with who they are, and how to overcome their weaknesses. I fully believe that talking women into being attracted to beta traits will simply cause more EPLish divorces down the road, because those women simply DO NOT understand why they crave the bad boy. To me it is more important that they understand their own self-destructive instincts than it is for them to have a list of 25 traits in a good husband. Yes, they’ll need that list, but ONLY after they come to terms with their desire for “adventure” or “edge”, or whatever they “tingle” over.
FWIW my wife is an ENFJ. So it seems that you and I have an identical MBTI marriage. Like you, my wife shows great abilities with logical thinking and reasoning, which is why we get along so well. Also like you, she tends to view everything through her own lens and is VERY reluctant to swap it for another, as if doing so may prove the world isn’t at all what she thinks it is. I used to be afraid of that as well, so I understand. I’m simply at the point where I’d rather know the truth than live a lie, even if the truth is horrifying. I don’t think it’s that bad though. I see it more as sad and depressing, but only because I had artificially high expectations for the human condition.
Whatever you do, please try NOT to get so worked up that you are physically ill.
Doc,
“To a large extent this is why today I clearly state that, “I’m not interested in a relationship. I’m just in it for the sex.”
This is a respectable stance. At least you’re being honest and lay the cards o the table from the get-go. There are plenty of women out here interested in no strings attached sex so its a win/win for both of you.
Susan Walsh September 25, 2012 at 7:17 am
It’s never been easier to be a bald guy, because the shaved head look is sexy. There’s something badass about it that women find hot. I think it’s worth 2 SMV points, compared to keeping remaining hair long.
—-
The shaved head look is sexier than the half bald/half hair look. But its generally not sexier than a full head of hair.
I wouldn’t advise men with a full head of hair to shave it off, but if you’re already starting to bald then go for it.
@Ted D
Take a break if you must but do come back, and the sooner the better. You’re one of my favorite commenters.
@”Jacqueline”
ok, I’ll bite, why the change of name? what message are you sending and to who?
Your mate’s character will go a long way toward determining the quality of your marriage…
____________
I totally agree with you, however we here at HUS will endlessly disagree what good and bad character is.
For some, anyone who engages in casual sex is of bad character. In some cases that might be correct, but I have known plenty of people who have casual sex who are of great character, and with whom I would trust my money or my daughters life with.
Character to me, is doing the right thing even when no one would notice or find out. Has nothing to do with sex, casual or other wise. Sex is , for me, in a whole nother catagory.
Casual sex isnt about character, it is about the choice one makes. They must live with the possible consequences down the road, but it isnt about character.
Many here might have questioned Susan`s “character” while she was single and sexually active. She found a man who was intelligent enough(and secure enough) to understand the casual sex she had and her character are two different and separate parts of her personality. He understood she was a person of good character who has had some casual sex. Smart man.
This line is further proof that the idea of consciously eliciting the kind of male behavior they want simply doesn’t occur to women. Of course a woman can make a man worthy. But usually she has absolutely no idea how to, especially if she’s a Western woman.
Really? How much male complaining is based on the women marrying men and then trying to change them? And how much abuse of women takes place in non-Western countries because those women are also unable to change core personality traits like the alcoholism that sends Russian women to the West? Yeah, there are things one can do bring ou the best in their mates, but it’s bad advice to tell someone that, based on their own interpersonal skills alone, they can change someone who is poor “raw material.”
It’s admirable that you admitted that, Sai. Such admissions are sorely needed and very rare.
@J1X
LOL
DH is the proverbial silver fox. I wouldn’t say that I don’t like, but I think as we age two thngs happen. One is that male baldness does become more typical. A 20 year old bald guy is at a big relative disadvantage because most guys have hair, baldness ages his appearance, etc. A 60 year old bald guy looks like everyone else. Two, as people ages, a lot of the superficials drop off their radar. If I were to look for a mate at this point in my life, I’d be a huge stickler for character over looks.
As for the follicles vs testes debate, there’s male hamster food if I ever saw it…
Women shape character. Even Roosh, Roissy or Tucker May would have become dutiful husbands had they been surrounded from childhood by women displaying human worth and respectability. But they didn’t. Apparently the women around them had no such worth to begin with or simply failed to demonstrate whatever respectability they could have mustered.
I don’t think your examples are valid. Vox’s reader wasn’t primarily looking for declarations of love, she primarily wanted sexual and emotional exclusivity but failed to elicit such behavior. Maybe 99 out of 100 women would have failed as well, if her description of his alphaness is valid, but that’s beside the point.
It’s never been easier to be a bald guy, because the shaved head look is sexy. There’s something badass about it that women find hot. I think it’s worth 2 SMV points, compared to keeping remaining hair long.
How hot is this guy?!!!
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0903677/
He’s actually hotter without hair. Compare his bald look with the other headshots on the page.
Desi–You could rock this look, I think.
“For some, anyone who engages in casual sex is of bad character”
Really? Where has that ever been stated? Men select or reject potential spouses for a whole host of reasons. Having discomfort with a woman may or may not have anything to do with her so-called “character”
That’s beside the point. Usually women very much want to change men, it’s just that they have no idea how to do that successfully. They usually try by nagging, shit-testing, blackmailing, attempting to out-slut each other in the sexual arms race for the attention of the top men etc. They have no clue how to demonstrate human worth.
Huh? Alcoholism is a sickness, an addiction, not a personality trait. Besides, Russian women just prove my point. They’re notoriously unable to elicit productive, admirable, honorable male behavior, in case you didn’t notice. Many of them are promiscuous, ball-busting and have terrible personalities.
Women shape character. Even Roosh, Roissy or Tucker May would have become dutiful husbands had they been surrounded from childhood by women displaying human worth and respectability. But they didn’t. Apparently the women around them had no such worth to begin with or simply failed to demonstrate whatever respectability they could have mustered.
Tucker Max is now married and “reformed.” Apparently, the emptiness of his life began to get to him and then he miraculously found the sort of woman whom he had probably been ignoring all along. I hope she sent him off to the doctor for a STD check before she slept with him.
As to Roosh and Roissy, have they no responsibility for their own lives and actions, or are they only capable of reacting to the part of the current SMP that their own sex drives push them towards?
Not sure what the detailed story behind Roosh’s parents’ divorce was, so I can’t comment on his childhood. There are rumors on the net that Roissy was sort of dweeby, but I don’t recall his having mother issues. I wouldn’t jump to blame childhood, but even if I did, I’d wonder why some men overcome truly horrendous childhoods and others are ruined by comparatively better childhoods.
@ Hollenhund
I’m not really sure what your point is.
A person’s character and essence are only so malleable. It seems like you blame women for not being able to change men. It makes no sense to me.
I can perhaps change how a man dresses. I can perhaps change his eating habits or some of his interests. Character traits require change from the inside though. If a man is to change those aspects of himself, that decision has to come from within. No amount of persuasion, from a woman’s end, will alter that.
It seems like you want to dump a man’s entire character at the feet of women. It seems like playing the victim card to the highest degree.
“Many of them are promiscuous, ball-busting and have terrible personalities.”
Far better off with Latinas or even Asians who reside and will continue to reside in their home countries. Sex up all these great American “characters” and then head for places where the casual is in their demeanor only
Usually women very much want to change men, it’s just that they have no idea how to do that successfully. They usually try by nagging, shit-testing, blackmailing, attempting to out-slut each other in the sexual arms race for the attention of the top men etc. They have no clue how to demonstrate human worth.
Some women want to change men; others realize that it won’t happen. When I see women “buying fixer-uppers,” I do generally try to dissuade them. Somethings can’t be changed.
I think your notion that women have “no clue how to demonstrate human worth” is overblown. That by no means applies to all women or to women exclusively. I’ve seen many “worthy” women passed over by men because they lacked the looks or the forwardness of the women you object to.
Huh? Alcoholism is a sickness, an addiction, not a personality trait.
Actually, there is a lot of evidence that it, and other addicitons, are genetic personality traits at their core. Even when removed from alcoholic homes or given up for adoption as infants, children of alcoholics and addicts, especially males, have a much higher rate of alcoholism and other addictions, then the general population. Apparently, there’s a gene on the Y chromosone that plays a big role in determining one’s propensity to addiction.
Besides, Russian women just prove my point. They’re notoriously unable to elicit productive, admirable, honorable male behavior, in case you didn’t notice. Many of them are promiscuous, ball-busting and have terrible personalities.
Well, I personally don’t see marrying Russian women as some sort of panacea, but many Spherians do. Or is your point that Russians are bad, but Vietnamese are better? If it is, I can say that there isn’t a group of women that I haven’t heard both lauded and castigated in the ‘sphere. I don’t believe that there is a culture that trains women in bringing out the best in men or that it is possible for a woman to mold a grown man into something he doesn’t already want to be.
Character traits require change from the inside though. If a man is to change those aspects of himself, that decision has to come from within. No amount of persuasion, from a woman’s end, will alter that.
True, but now add in the idea that there may well be some personality traits that are inherited. To be solipsistic, I’ve spent years working on appearing less aloof, and, to some degree, I’ve succeeded. What I haven’t been able to do is develop that natural interest in people that, say, Susan has. I can ask all the polite questions, but I can’t make myself give a damn about the answers unless a person really interests me.
Ted,
I can understand your need for a break, I think there is something about these blogs that is really enervating. I have enjoyed getting to know you, so my selfish hope is that you aern’t going for you. But, if so, Godspeed.
Love,
J
@ J
I have the same problem. I’ve been making a conscious effort to be more feminine and emotionally expressive around my boyfriend. I’ve become better at it, but I don’t think that I will ever be as proficient at it as other women naturally seem to be. I’ve already frustrated him a few times with my relative aloofness and reserved nature, but I’m thankful that he is patient with me.
Jacqueline is an early adopter of HUS. Way back in 2009 she wrote this guest post:
http://www.hookingupsmart.com/2009/11/30/hookinguprealities/an-american-virgin-goddess-or-circus-freak/
@J and @Sassy
You need to be patient specially if you started late into trying to become “masters of your core traits” in years practice it will become so easier that you won’t even remember you were like this.
My personal jihad was with aggressiveness and anger, my last episode was when I was 14. So I had been without any incident for 20 years now in fact my friends or my husband don’t believe me when I tell them that they don’t want to see me mad, they don’t believe that I can actually get mad and I will say it will take almost near death experience to get my temper off. But I still can feel it boiling deeeeeep down is just more like a whisper than a boxing bell like it used to be, is actually something I’m quite proud of have conquered on my own, it was the hardest thing I have ever done.
@Susan
Guest post? and with such a title…
Which brings me to a point that I should have made before…your archives contain lots of posts of interest that I didn’t see at the time. Is there a way to make the archives more easily browsable? The current list by month isn’t that great a way to find interesting posts.
There have been a couple of ‘related posts’ links that took me back in time to a blog with a very different vibe. I believe that the sweet spot lies somewhere between ‘then’ and ‘now’. The post about amazing things about men had…women commenting on it! lots of them!
The post about amazing things about men had…women commenting on it! lots of them!
Lots of women?! Commenting here?! That is just crazy talk :p
LOL. Ana, I’ve been at this since I was 16; I’m in my mid-50s. I had graduated from a gifted high school and went off to college, when I realized that how my aloofness affected people in less INTx environment. Nonetheless, no matter how much work I put in, it always comes back to bite me in the ass. Approximately 40 years is a lot of time to work on an issue. While I continue to watch myself, I’m convinced I’m taking his trait to the grave with me.
Sassy, I think it’s good that you’ve made some changes, but I think you still need to make sure this guy “gets” you, can deal with you and still loves you either despite or because of it. My DH can deal with my aloofness because he is rather aloof himself. He does hide it better and coaches me on it. On the negative side though, he did such a good job of putting his best foot forward, that I felt he had pulled a bait and switch when I realized that he was not as warm an fuzzy as I had originally believed. OTOH, he knew what he was bargaining for.
That just proves the point. The raw material is fully baked by adulthood. Bad parenting can certainly play a role – it’s believed that narcissism often results from it, which we certainly see in those examples.
When a woman looks at an adult man, what she sees is what she gets, for better or worse. Obviously, any woman who chooses R, R or TM is in for a rough ride.
I’m more interested in what Vox has to say about alphas as long-term mates. That is very much on point. A man’s sexual history, including his number of past partners, is a valid predictor of his future behavior and ability to sustain a monogamous relationship. Vox gives some of the reasons, others are found in the literature.
As an INTJ, he should not be a perfect match for an ENFJ, but it works.
The MBTI folks actually have charts on what makes a good match. I believe they feel opposites attract and complement each other.
Addiction of all forms is possibly related to a mutation on DRD4 – a dopamine receptor. There is very definitely a genetic component. Obviously, there is a cultural one as well.
My father spent two years in the Peace Corps in Russia after my mom passed away. His first morning there he went out to a kiosk in the town square to buy coffee, which had a line of about 50 people. He soon realized they were all waiting for shots of vodka – at 8:00 a.m. The kiosk sold only that one product.
@J
I’ve read about some research into the quality of resilience. Apparently, there are women who are raped repeatedly by their own fathers for years who go on to success as wives and mothers. Other women who are touched by an uncle once over their clothing are unable to ever be alone with a man again.
@Ana
“Lots of women?! Commenting here?! That is just crazy talk :p”
I know! I know! I can hardly believe that I said that!
Some of the posts were about ‘what women love about men’, now how are ‘we’ supposed to make those misandrous? I mean ‘we’ managed it from a post about “Fathers’ Day”, which was a mighty impressive feat indeed, but ‘what women love about men’…what can we do with that? I look forward to finding out…with rabid anticipation
I still think that the sweet spot is between then and now though.
@ J
Yeah, I’ve been keeping that in the back of my mind. I know that I can bend some of my ways to make him happy, but I’m also realistic about the fact that I will always be on the more reserved and aloof side of the female spectrum. That is natural to me.
He knows this, and appears willing to handle it, despite some protestations on his end. He’s told me that it may frustrate him at times, but he also likes it because I am not clingy or needy like most of the women in his past. I’m trying to find the sweet spot of things. I want to maintain my independence while letting him know that I am attached to him as well.
I still think that the sweet spot is between then and now though.
I do agree but again pack mentality “kick the weak women that can’t handle the truth” seems to be ingrained in many of the guys that like to comment here. Not that I want a herd echo chamber either but come on if your message is for Russians and you speak Latin complaining that you are not selling it makes no sense, modify your message to your audience to maximize its effect should be a no brainer for rational people…*lesigh*
@Susan
I heard tell that the Soviet Army in WWII didn’t have field kitchens, but had field stills…surely someone here can confirm or deny it.
I also heard that the army later had problems with soldiers drinking brake fluid. If you filter it through a loaf of bread to remove the poisons, then you have a vintage drink with a fine kick.
It was shown in ‘The Beast of War’ (a fine film for da menz – the Russian – Afghan war)
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0094716/
the relevant scene
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pLn3nSpT4go
@Ana
Sometimes I get the feeling that the ‘the beatings will continue until morale improves’ mentality reigns supreme, but things have got better lately (YMMV).
>> “The MBTI folks actually have charts on what makes a good match. I believe they feel opposites attract and complement each other.”
I dunno… I’m an INTP, and my sister is ESFJ, and let’s just say that I would NOT want to date a male version of her… : P
@Just1X
I’ve been criticized in the ‘sphere for that post because I supposedly reveal my true hunger for “alpha” there, making me a liar in every other post.
You know, if Capt. Capitalism can happily link to me when I write posts like Women Need Men, I don’t understand why so many guys continue to get their boxers in a twist here. I’m saddened by the statements from guys who say it’s time to check out – I value those guys as members of the community. At the same time, I recognize I am not delivering on the strategy they believe is right for the blog. I’ve been thinking about this a great deal, and will write about it soon.
Sometimes I get the feeling that the ‘the beatings will continue until morale improves’ mentality reigns supreme, but things have got better lately (YMMV)
I don’t know about improving I had been here for a while and the pattern IMO is that this things come like waves.
Very few commenters last past certain time period. We were remembering Aldonza, Jesus M, Filrabat…. but like them many came looking for something and later the rest became too much of a burden and left.
Maybe that was good maybe they took what they needed from HUS and move on to better lives.
But I sometimes get the feeling that most people here don’t come to support Susan’s mission but to try and shape it to their own liking, even if that means that the blog loses effectiveness and audience. I might be wrong though, just my perception, YMMV.
@Susan
I thought that there had been a marked reduction in the accusatory tone used in comments here. The arguments were still more robust than was perhaps helpful for many of the female contingent, but it has been improving. It is surprising how manified in tone the blog has become since the olden days (all of a year, or two ago), looking back in the archives has been interesting. I think it’d be better with more balance, s’all I’m sayin’ but you are the Boss…as it should be on your blog.
As to the manosphere, is there any point in engaging in those arguments? I’ve seen the jabs but there’s no way to address them that wouldn’t make it worse. The ‘Aunt Giggles’ thing is just effing tedious, juvenile crap (imho and all that).
I hope TedD comes back, because above all, he was honest. Without that, just what is the point? Sanity / a grip on reality is good too, but that’s not aimed at TedD…
Susan:
I’ve read about some research into the quality of resilience. Apparently, there are women who are raped repeatedly by their own fathers for years who go on to success as wives and mothers. Other women who are touched by an uncle once over their clothing are unable to ever be alone with a man again.
That in a nutshell is why high IQ isn’t well correlated with success but EQ is. Fortunately people with high neuroplasticity can improve their EQ if they choose to work on it for years. IQ can be improved too.
@Ana
“but to try and shape it to their own liking”
it seems odd to come here and want to turn HUS into jizzabelle mk II, or just-another-manosphere-blog, I value this place precisely because it is neither. menz ‘n’ wimminz can talk!
The discussion of core masculine and feminine traits is interesting. I’ve been working on a list for a post on my lame-ass blog. Right now I’ve decided on athleticism, confidence, and courage for men and beauty, grace, and vulnerability for women. All of those require an explanation for what is what, however.
What’s interesting though is that in addition to the ‘good’ core traits there’s also ‘dark’ core anti-traits for both women and men, which still act as attraction triggers but only in the context of a short-term mating strategy.
There’s also peripheral traits that are male or female-trended but can benefit both sexes. A balance putting 75 % of one’s personal growth effort into the same-sex traits and 25 % into the peripheral traits of the opposite sex seems to be the right approach to avoid being hyper-sexual.
I can perhaps change how a man dresses. I can perhaps change his eating habits or some of his interests. Character traits require change from the inside though. If a man is to change those aspects of himself, that decision has to come from within. No amount of persuasion, from a woman’s end, will alter that.
That is completely true… although leave his damn interests alone, woman! However, keep in mind that you can either be a support or a hindrance to his attempts to put that decision to change into practice. I don’t think negative reinforcement is wise in this context, but positive reinforcement can be very helpful indeed.
I’m more interested in what Vox has to say about alphas as long-term mates.
I’ll be posting more on this in the future at AG. I have several very high alpha friends, and with one exception, they are complete nightmares from the LTR perspective. And by nightmare, I mean “blithely taking pretty college students on two-week international trips with them” or “popping over to London to spent the weekend with a model”. My own experience is very different, but then, I regard myself as ALPHA:sigma, not ALPHA:alpha. Regardless, easily the biggest LTR challenge is that either sort of ALPHA has only one relationship management trick in his bag, which is NEXT. This puts the woman in a very difficult position because he truly isn’t bluffing. Walking out and replacing her is simply all he knows how to do. That’s why women in LTRs with ALPHAs tend to put up with so much unbelievable grief from them. It’s a continuation of the behavioral pattern established at the start. Women who successfully alpha-chase quickly learn they cannot object to much and still hope to keep him around.
I think alpha-chasing is very unwise unless a woman finds herself dealing with a genuinely reformed and religious one. Of course, as we’ve seen in my reader’s email, religion is not a complete panacea, as the ALPHA can end up rejecting both faith and wife, particularly if he adopted the former to win over the latter.
All I can say to that is
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-_IlNbsILLE
@VD
What your experience with groups with Alpha in association like business or other goals?
Obsidian and I have a long time disagreement with the concept that Alphas can actually be successful because their own nature work against them. He seems to think I’m just bitter or something but I swear I had belong to many groups with a lot of males and they always find way to keep themselves in the dust due to “who has the bigger cock” conflict. This week alone I found out two groups that broke apart out of this, a group if five comedians had a pretty sweet deal going on on youtube the moment they were having enough success some of them decided that they should be the leaders and ended parting ways. I can say that the founder is struggling already with his material but the ones that left are not doing any better, they were better off in the group but you know “the dick wants what the dick wants”…
Then we have a new group that organized a very successful anime fair in my country last year (a new trend that I hope it sticks it gives alternative to young kids over rum and machete fights) and they had to cancel the next one because some other people were boycotting it over minor details again all of them were the ones that should be leaders.
There is a reason we are a third world country the overabundance of Alphas don’t let anything ever happen. They have to be on top all the freaking time even if is their own family.
In contrast my husband and friends are letting a small business grow up and they just organized themselves in basis of who had the most experience and free time. Things are walking slowly but steady all of them betas with one leader taking the realms because he is the one that “can get shit done” easier at this point.
So yeah Alpha’s can’t do shit, the dick gets in the way all the time IME but as always I’m willing to be convinced otherwise. What do you think?
This.
This this this this this x1000
I don’t get it, but people (women included, but I see some men with the same attribute) seem to hop onto this “beatings shall continue until morale improves” mindset. They yell and nag and with-hold and wonder why they don’t see any positive results.
I don’t need that, and my guess is most men don’t. Most men seem to be well aware of their own flaws. I surely am.
What your experience with groups with Alpha in association like business or other goals?
Most successful companies have serious high alphas at the top. I once worked with one guy, who sold his company to the one with whom we were working, for $100 million. Simply meeting him made you understand the canine reaction to roll on your back and urinate on yourself; he once described his much earlier divorce as the best $200,000 he’d ever spent. The friends to whom I referred are respectively an ex-private bank CEO and a guy who owns three companies with factories in Europe, America, and India. They are extraordinarily successful in business and with women alike.
You’re describing the sort of petty wannabe alphas who would curl up in a fetal position in front of these guys. Men are very hierarchical, so when there is no question who is packing the metaphorical anaconda, things move along very rapidly. An effective group can’t have two alphas anymore than a football team can start two quarterbacks. The problem isn’t that they’re all alphas, but that none of them are real ones capable of dominating the others. The mix is wrong. This is why understanding the socio-sexual hierarchy is important for matters outside of intersexual relations.
In contrast my husband and friends are letting a small business grow up and they just organized themselves in basis of who had the most experience and free time. Things are walking slowly but steady all of them betas with one leader taking the realms because he is the one that “can get shit done” easier at this point.
They are unlikely to get anywhere significant with that approach. Doesn’t mean it will fail, but it will likely remain small time and take forever to get there. The reason alphas end up on top is because they drive things forward rapidly by their demanding, impatient nature and their ability to get others to buy into their vision. Too little alpha is as big a problem as too much alpha, though the problems manifest in different ways. I’ve seen failing companies bring in one guy at the top, have him turn it around and make it hugely profitable, then promptly fail again as soon as he’s gone. Watch what happens to post-Jobs Apple in this regard. That’s why everyone is so willing to put up with the bastards. They’re actually worth all the headaches and nonsense.
So yeah Alpha’s can’t do shit, the dick gets in the way all the time IME but as always I’m willing to be convinced otherwise. What do you think?
Totally disagree. Believe me, I have my own issues with them – except for my friends, alphas ALWAYS think I’m challenging them by my refusal to submit to their dominance – but I respect them for their observable merits even as I roll my eyes at their absurd primate games.
The problem isn’t that they’re all alphas, but that none of them are real ones capable of dominating the others. The mix is wrong. This is why understanding the socio-sexual hierarchy is important for matters outside of intersexual relations.
So they will need AMOG that places then inline…Interesting concept like the One Ring. Never seen it back in my country even family businesses get destroyed with the petty primate games but is good to know there is a possible solution.
They are unlikely to get anywhere significant with that approach. Doesn’t mean it will fail, but it will likely remain small time and take forever to get there.
They mostly had an idea for some pocket money. I define success as you set a goal and achieve it. It doesn’t has to be big as long as you get there so I do admire the fact that they are concentrating on the goal: some pocket money and no who is going to be the the ONE. So I would find their approach faulty if they were planning on this business being their source of income or retirement but is not.
but I respect them for their observable merits even as I roll my eyes at their absurd primate games.
Probably that is my issue you had seen the observable merits and their absurd primate games I don’t think I never seen the merits. Aside from Alphas surviving injuries that would had killed a normal man they always destroy everything they set to do or keep it small while bitching why is not taking off as they planned “Honey for that you need to stop alienating your customers with your my way of the highway attitude, no? They should know you rule just by you opening your zipper and wanking on their presence…Mmm okay”
Thank you for taking, time to answer me.
Tom
“Casual sex isnt about character, it is about the choice one makes. They must live with the possible consequences down the road, but it isnt about character.
Many here might have questioned Susan`s “character” while she was single and sexually active. She found a man who was intelligent enough(and secure enough) to understand the casual sex she had and her character are two different and separate parts of her personality. He understood she was a person of good character who has had some casual sex. Smart man.”
AGREED 100 %
Sassy,
“Yeah, I’ve been keeping that in the back of my mind. I know that I can bend some of my ways to make him happy, but I’m also realistic about the fact that I will always be on the more reserved and aloof side of the female spectrum. That is natural to me.
He knows this, and appears willing to handle it, despite some protestations on his end. He’s told me that it may frustrate him at times, but he also likes it because I am not clingy or needy like most of the women in his past. I’m trying to find the sweet spot of things. I want to maintain my independence while letting him know that I am attached to him as well.”
>>> How about just starting a habit of displaying overt affection toward him at least once a day, as a gesture of your feelings. They say it takes 21, or 40 – take your pick, days to create a habit, so for example, make it a habit to hug him once a day and say, “darling I really love (or appreciate or whatever) you.”
That should be enough touchy-feely sugar for him and you.
Plain Jane:
“Having solid character and good intelligence doesn’t necessarily mean one will be “analytical to their core””
Meh, not via personal experience and my INTP jive…but fair enough, I agree.
“There are few humans who are that deeply analytical, and yet many who are still of solid character and high intelligence.”
There are also people who are highly intelligent without solid character and vice versa. There are also deeply analytical sociopaths. I did not think I’d have to mention those people, because I don’t find them desirable.
“I swear I had belong to many groups with a lot of males and they always find way to keep themselves in the dust due to “who has the bigger cock” conflict.”
I agree Ana, and often it’s that the “big dick” serves as a male pat-on-the-back for lacking in other more visible dominating qualities that would be apparent in ones environment.
“they always destroy everything they set to do”
A chaotic society is probably an ideal stomping ground for alphas.
Speaking of big ones, here are haha articles about gay men being larger on average if you have never seen.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_penis_size#Among_gay_men
http://www.salon.com/1999/11/04/size/
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10410197
@ SW:
I agree, Susan! A man must have good character.
I know that a woman can encourage a man, and slowly influence him by approving/praising behavior she views as positive. (Case in point, I got my Ex to upgrade his entire style of dress by subtle reinforcements of outfits I liked on him).
However, positive reinforcement has it’s limits! It only works for superficial issues. It certainly cannot be applied to mend red flags and/or fix relationship dealbreakers. Any house looks better with a fresh coat of paint — but painting over the cracks won’t fix structual damage.
Likes trying to change who a person is, is an undertaking that’s bound to fail! You cannot make someone change — for better or worse, they must decide to do so on their own accord.
Meant to say: Likewise
Hmm, the edit button is gone..
J,
” I don’t believe that there is a culture that trains women in bringing out the best in men or that it is possible for a woman to mold a grown man into something he doesn’t already want to be.”
Why should women be expected to bring out the best in men, or men expected to bring out the best in women? What about individual sovereignty and self-improvement for its own sake? And if anyone has the potential to bring out the best (and sometimes worst) in anybody, its children with their parents.
“Women shape character. Even Roosh, Roissy or Tucker May would have become dutiful husbands had they been surrounded from childhood by women displaying human worth and respectability. But they didn’t. Apparently the women around them had no such worth to begin with or simply failed to demonstrate whatever respectability they could have mustered.”
Bollocks.
Roissy got his heartbroken by some women he crushed hard on. Big whoopin’ deal! It happens to all of us.
As far as Roosh, his own women (from the Iranian-American community, probably Bahai or Zorastrian) didn’t want him and he thinks all other American women are fat and ugly, hence why he’s gone global. He also mentioned something about heartbreak and disappointment as a very young man. Again, big freakin’ deal. Who DOESN’T get dumped at least once in their life?
Whatever happened to PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY?
J,
“True, but now add in the idea that there may well be some personality traits that are inherited. To be solipsistic, I’ve spent years working on appearing less aloof, and, to some degree, I’ve succeeded. What I haven’t been able to do is develop that natural interest in people that, say, Susan has. I can ask all the polite questions, but I can’t make myself give a damn about the answers unless a person really interests me.”
J, I’m curious. Why did you feel the need to work on this? Is it because it was affecting your career? I’m assuming your spouse got used to it, likes it or his himself similar, so what areas of your life did your natural aloofness negatively affect to the extent that you felt the need to work on it?
By the way, I looked up ways to use “enervate” in sentence and look what I found;
“Enervatene ] ; for indeed i have felt the enervating effects upon the mind of reading in succession several works of the lighter class.”
@Sassy
He knows this, and appears willing to handle it, despite some protestations on his end. He’s told me that it may frustrate him at times, but he also likes it because I am not clingy or needy like most of the women in his past. I’m trying to find the sweet spot of things. I want to maintain my independence while letting him know that I am attached to him as well.
That all sounds good and reasonable.
Resilience is a fascinating thing. If you have any research to share, I’d love to see it.
On a personal level, DH and I have both survived some pretty crappy things, him even more than I. We’ve both come through just fine. Some of that I’m sure is genetic, but I’ve purposely worked to make my kids resilient.
I dunno… I’m an INTP, and my sister is ESFJ, and let’s just say that I would NOT want to date a male version of her… : P
LOL. But srsly, all four of the letters being different is too much. I’m too lazy to google but I think Is and Es are always considered complementary, them maybe Ts and Fs.
Maybe Hope will chime in on this. She’s pretty knowledgable.
@SW
Think of it as frivolous divorce. After all, they cited communication problems as the primary reason.
Yeah, it didn’t work. You’d think this feature would not be so hard to come by. I’ll go back to looking.
“For some, anyone who engages in casual sex is of bad character”
Really? Where has that ever been stated
____________
Really Abbott? There has been plenty of debate here as to the character of women who have casual sex. Your memory is fading, son.
It has been stated here many times in the past women who have casual sex, thus going against society norms must be of bad character or have a character flaw.
J, I’m curious. Why did you feel the need to work on this? Is it because it was affecting your career? I’m assuming your spouse got used to it, likes it or his himself similar, so what areas of your life did your natural aloofness negatively affect to the extent that you felt the need to work on it?
Mostly career.
My husband and are peas in a pod. He likes his alone time, so having a clingier woman cry and complain that he was spending too much on music project while was all alone wouldn’t work for him.
I’ve also never been one of the girls. I have mixed feelings about that. There’s a part of me that would like to be more social with other women, but OTOH really soci-socy women get on my nerves. An example: When my kids were young, I was part of several playgroups. The moms usuallly divided into cliques. The clique that was made up of women who must have been popular in high school would discuss things like nail polish and arguements they had with their husbands. I just can’t listen to that crap. Luckily, there are generally a few other outliers whom I can amuse with sardonic comments about those women, but I like to not have to search so hard for gal pals. I tend to be intensely loyal to the friends I have though.
“women who have casual sex, thus going against society norms ”
um, no. The “society norm” (in certain geographic areas) is casual sex, whether women actually enjoy it or not. There are a few women who have the strength of character to recognize that sex for them comes easy and therefore manage their behavior and numbers respectfully. That alone puts her ahead of the pack
LOL @ megaman.
They’re leaving because they aren’t haaapppy with the direction of the site and aren’t finding fulfillment in commenting anymore.
Congratulations, Mr and Mrs Walsh!
Well done.
You should pat each other on the back
Passerby/Megaman,
Kicking a good man down = uncool.
Ted,
Dude, you’re my hero – you’re the one that got me to post an actual pic, and if I can get my comments down to one a day and out of the first person, I’m determined to start using my real name too.
Here’s where I think things got off track:
Susan will from time to time react defensively, but then she’ll often come back having thought things through with evidence that she has really engaged what we’re saying. Thesis, antithesis, synthesis.
For a long time, I didn’t really return the favor, in lieu of always trying to get her to see things my way. Once I started trying to follow her example and think through the logic (rationale) behind what she was saying, I found areas of common ground that could fit what we were both saying, and at times that what I was saying was off.
For all that the men offer this blog, I haven’t always seen that in our comments, and the constant efforts to get others to see things our way can become boring after a while. To some extent, we’re all still stuck fighting the last war, and need to make sure what we’re saying fits with the experiences of Susan’s readers.
J,
“Desi–You could rock this look, I think.”
That’s the smile/comfort in his own skin more than the chromedome.
Susan’s comment about Walter White turning off his wife really hit home for me. I never went fully shaved, but I was using a trimmer on the lowest setting a couple times a week to keep it as short as possible. Combined with more alpha body language, stylish clothing, and getting the body back tight (lost twenty pounds, while upping the strength considerably, so the change was likely even more dramatic than that), I was getting plenty of attention, but not from the women I wanted it from. If anything, those women reacted negatively.
As part of the toning down the STR-vibe, I’ve let it grow out a little more and shown some more grey on the temples. I can’t let it grow all the way out or I’d have Dilbert boss hair, but there’s a happy medium there for the Dad vibe.
@Dr. Desi
Apologies, even though it was just a bad joke. I just find many things that go on around here very ironic. Standards of behavior, and such…
I really wish someone would analyze Breaking Bad from a Game perspective. I really had fun doing that with Girls, but I’m not the one for this job. It’s a great, great case study though. Walter does indeed lose the love of his wife (and life) by destroying the beta in himself. On the other hand, he becomes a man that other men fear/look up to.
Then there’s Jesse, a whole other character worth dissecting. A sweetheart gone wrong.
Hopefully someone will take up the challenge. If not, I may have to do it myself.
Congrats Susan.
I think a little gift is in order. It’s nothing big, but I just came across some more data that might interest you:
Sociosexuality as predictor of sexual harassment and coercion in female and male high school students
The guys behind the study are from my old university. I don’t recognise Bendiksen, but they’re both evo-psychologists and Kennair has been used as a go-to guy in the media quite a lot in the last few years*. They definitely know what they’re talking about, and while I haven’t read the study ($31!?), I’m pretty confident that they actually asked and formulated smart questions for their respondents.
From the abstract:
I found an article about it in English however: http://sciencenordic.com/get-laid-high-school-students-harass-each-other. Might be worth a read.
* There seems to be an awakening towards acknowledging all the little lies we’ve been held to for half a century. For instance, several TV shows have started to present evo-psych knowledge, and have strongly questioned the idea that people are born as blank slates. I think interesting times are ahead, and have a small hope that things might start to get better in a decade or two.
@Darsh
Thank you, no one has ever given me a study before.
The unconscious signaling of sociosexual orientation is fascinating. I’m interested to learn just how that is done. We have seen that people’s orientation is at least somewhat discernible in still photos, but I suspect there’s a lot more going on.
Heh. I have a knack for uncommon ideas and unusual gifts I think. Earlier I was ashamed of it and tried to hide it, but after learning game cultivating my alpha-traits I just view it as one of my more charming points!
And every girl worth spending time on has appreciated it.
By suggesting that other guys are “girly men”, or by talking about how another girl is slutty. By being overly flirty, dressing provocatively, and doing all the things Roissy suggests to be alpha.
All the usual stuff really, but kids/people don’t necessarily know why they’re doing it. There was also a very good example in a news article I saw. A guy was interviewed about this study, and somehow said that he had a lot of female friends. His buddy then suddenly added: “He has only female friends!”. It’s a joke of course, and he hadn’t thought about it in any way, but that’s exactly the kind of talk and behaviour the researchers are addressing.
The unconscious signaling of sociosexual orientation is fascinating. I’m interested to learn just how that is done. We have seen that people’s orientation is at least somewhat discernible in still photos, but I suspect there’s a lot more going on.
This is something I had seen but I never registered as important to discuss here the aggressive males in my culture are usually very vulgar they use genitalia words in conversations, they move like silverbacks, they try their approaches on anyone…. That used to happen to me and it will only elicit a gut disgust and I do remember thinking what man can possibly think this will work with any woman just to find out how many women they had on the side. The worst example I remember was a teacher at my mother’s school that used to describe explicit sex acts he did to his wife, including forcing himself on her when she said no to his coworkers in the break room. Of course my mother and many teachers avoided this creep like a plague but he ended up having sex with one teacher that used to stay around when he was telling this horrible stories and she broke her marriage over for him, losing her kids on the process. My guess is that they filter in the micro expressions and IOI’s of the short term orientated ones and ignore the rest.
I do wonder if there is a different set of IOI’s from the LTR than for the STR that they train themselves or know naturally as to find each other. Probably an adaptation to obtain the most sex possible and will also explain why the LTR are mostly invincible they are signaling a different set of IOI’s that don’t compete with the STR by a mile. God knows I cant flirt if my life depended on it…It would fascinating to tape and study gender interactions with profiles of past behaviour and future behaviour and see the results…Man we need some social scientist in our corner with the possibility of funds.
@Darsh
Oh, I thought the study implied that some other, completely subconscious signaling was going on. Like you can detect someone’s sociosexual orientation via things they may not be conscious of. For example, testosterone levels predicts sociosexual orientation in men. It may be that women with a short-term orientation get a whiff of a high T guy and zero in, while she may ignore the lower T guy because the chance of a match would be low. In contrast, a woman with a restricted orientation might pick up on that same scent and take a step back. This is how the study with photos was interpreted – women ranked the most masculine faces as the least attractive. Odds are that sample of women was 80% restricted, same as in the population, so they preferred the male faces that were also restricted.
Other possibilities:
Body language
Microfacial expressions, especially around the eyes
Extraversion
Eye contact
???
gaydar?
@Susan:
Everything you suggest probably.
The study’s only real focus and conclusion – as far as I can tell – is that Sexual Harassment first and foremost has to do with sex and not power (much like rape), that men and women give and receive roughly the same amounts of harassment, that harassment is both intra- and inter-sexual, and that unrestricted sexuality is somewhat correlated to giving and receiving harassment.
And of course it acknowledged that attractive people can get away with far more sexual harassment than unattractive people…
“The worst example I remember was a teacher at my mother’s school that used to describe explicit sex acts he did to his wife, including forcing himself on her when she said no to his coworkers in the break room”
I’m glad our country has laws about this sort of talk at work. The work place is no place for such talk.
“attractive people can get away with far more sexual harassment than unattractive people”
In the mind of a woman, harassment consideration is inversely proportional to his attractiveness
I’m glad our country has laws about this sort of talk at work. The work place is no place for such talk.
It doesn’t work if you read how many of the PUAS fuck married women they meet at work,they find a way to find their sexual unrestricted counterparts the nice people avoid them anyway. Is better that my mom and his friends got a fair warning of is character and avoid things like taking rides with him or visiting his house that could had gotten into more uncomfortable situations, than not and it was a good lesson about human behaviour that could had gotten lost.
Ion,
“There are also people who are highly intelligent without solid character and vice versa. There are also deeply analytical sociopaths. I did not think I’d have to mention those people, because I don’t find them desirable.”
Oh okaaaaaaaaaay, I get it now. Its all about who YOU find desirable, eh? How very solipsistic of you.
Congrats on 28 years of marriage, Susan!! Here’s to many more.
@ Sassy:
Didn’t get to say it in the last thread, but congrats on the boyfriend! Super-happy for you!!!
@ J:
Nope, I think someone dug up a picture. She looks to be the same kind of tart that he went after, I guess he just settled down and picked the one who just happened to be there.
@ Just1X:
IMO, HUS has improved since I first started commenting. Granted there have been some rough patches and we’ve lost some of my favorite commenters (Aldonza come back!
), but overall I think it’s been getting better.
“Oh okaaaaaaaaaay, I get it now. Its all about who YOU find desirable, eh?”
Basically. Or, in simplest terms since I’m a woman and don’t know what I’m attracted to: “me me me me me! alpha!! me me me! alpha career alpha!!!”
@ Megaman:
You’re getting more and more fiesty. I gotta say — I love it.
@SayWhaat
Polite mockery, nothing more. Worth a thousand mean & nasty comments, which I don’t do. There’s too much of that online as it is.
That’s the smile/comfort in his own skin more than the chromedome.
True.
From what you say, you were smart in adjusting your look.
@ SayWhaat
Thanks!!
You’re a woman, and a feminist one to boot, so you can hardly imagine the sheer amount of social negative reinforcement and dysfunctional cultural conditioning it takes to make average men become nihilists who openly communicate like Roissy and Roosh does. It’s not a coincidence that open “misogyny” (i.e. in the sense of the word that women use) was exceedingly rare in the West before feminism and the Sexual Revolution. Not only did average men have no reason whatsoever to spout misogyny, they also had every reason to prevent other men from spouting misogyny.
@Darsh,
“And of course it acknowledged that attractive people can get away with far more sexual harassment than unattractive people…”
Has anybody seen the Tom Brady- Sexual Harassment skit on Saturday Night Live? So funny, and so true…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gBVuAGFcGKY
@Susan
I expect that after 28 years you’ve worked this stuff out, but for younger viewers
The Conjugal Rights Guide – the act of frightfulness
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Ivsb79-h90
for those unmarried women
Women Keep Your Virtue – the minefield of caddishness
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZ0jRuASVEQ&feature=relmfu
And for no good reason whatsoever
The Wonderful World Of Animals
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uzDcecbHnAs&feature=related
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