20 Years Later, Men and Women Are Still From Different Planets

by Susan Walsh on November 30, 2012 · 1,542 comments

in Personal Development, Relationship Strategies

One of the most troubling effects of applied feminist theology has been the demonization of sex differences. Naturally, this denial of biological reality didn’t make sex differences disappear, it just made them off limits for discussion. That’s ironic, because some of the most pronounced differences between men and women may be seen in the way they engage in discussion. It’s very clear here at HUS that men and women communicate very differently. 

Recently I reread one of my favorite books about cross-sex communication, and despite the fact that it was written in the early 90s, I haven’t found anything that tops it. Even after four years of blogging about dating and relationships, I find John Gray’s Men Are from Mars, Women Are from Venus enlightening. 

I’m not sure if there ever was a time when the sexes understood one another better, but most of the questions I get from female readers are an attempt to figure out what’s going on in a guy’s mind. 

The best advice about men usually comes from men, but I’m happy to pass it along when it’s really good. John Gray is really good. Some of the insights seem a bit dated for today’s culture – that is, the nature of men and women has not really changed in twenty years, but some of our behaviors have. You may need to adjust here and there, but most of this is gold.

When men feel good about themselves, they are most motivated to please a woman.

The more a man’s life is in order, the more he hungers for a woman to share it with.

When a man does something to make a woman feel special, he becomes more attracted to her.

Men are attracted to women who clearly can be pleased. A man does not want to hear a woman dwell on negative feelings or problems. Women should initially share their most positive, autonomous side.

Not to be needed is a slow death for a man. He needs to feel appreciated, trusted and accepted.

Men are motivated and empowered when they feel needed. Given the opportunity to prove his potential, a man expresses his best self. Only when he feels he cannot succeed does he regress back to his old selfish ways.

But: Too much intimacy, too quickly, can cause women to become needy and men to pull away.

When a man is attracted, he gets excited because he anticipates that he can make her happy and that makes him feel really good; it brings the best of him out. The anticipation of more is very important to keep him interested. If he feels completely satisfied, then there is no distance for him to continue traveling to pursue her. Distance not only makes the heart grow fonder but gives the man the opportunity to pursue. Men always need the opportunity for more.

When women “overgive” it compromises their position, and it prevents the excitement of anticipation and romance from building.

While a man tends to question whether he wants to pursue a relationship, the woman tends to question where the relationship is going.

This may make her insecure and she will begin to pursue him. When a man stops pursuing, a woman’s task is to resist the enormous urge to find out what has happened or to do something about it. In this instance, she should stay open to his future advances, but fill her life up with friends.

The male intimacy cycle is like a rubber band. It involves getting close, pulling away, and then getting close again.

A man pulls away to fulfill his need for independence or autonomy. When he has fully separated, suddenly he will feel his need for love and intimacy again. A man automatically alternates between needing intimacy and autonomy.

When a man springs back, he picks up the relationship at whatever degree of intimacy it was when he stretched away. He doesn’t feel any need for a period of getting reacquainted again.

If a man does not have the opportunity to pull away, he never gets a chance to feel his strong desire to be close. If women insist on continuous intimacy then he will almost always be trying to escape and distance himself. He will never get a chance to feel his own passionate longing for love.

When a woman chases a man or punishes him for withdrawing, he feels incapable of fulfilling her and gives up. His fear of her anger or rejection might cause him to give up entirely.

Women need:

  • caring
  • understanding
  • respect
  • devotion
  • validation
  • reassurance

Men need:

  • trust
  • acceptance
  • appreciation
  • admiration
  • approval
  • encouragement

A man’s interest should be active. 

If a man detects that a woman’s mission is to please him, he will also focus on how she can please him. If she wants to pursue him, he will happily sit back and passively receive what she wants to give. This will not make her happy. When he senses that she is unhappy, she becomes less interesting to him and the attraction lessens. A woman who is eager to please a man will find that he is pleased, but not necessarily interested.

Active interest motivates the man to action to achieve a goal, thrives on achievement and comes from a place of desire and confidence.  The more risks he takes, the more invested he becomes.

The way a woman makes him feel good, (and more interested) is by creating opportunities for him to succeed in truly fulfilling her needs. Without her to please, he is a man out of work. He needs a job, needs the opportunity to succeed in a relationship with a woman. This is an enormous boost to his fulfillment in life.

 A female’s interest should be receptive.

Receptive interest is motivated to create opportunities to receive, thrives in response to support, and comes from a place of preference and worthiness. A woman’s receptive interest in a man generates his active interest in her. When she reacts to his advances, he feels more connected to her. Then he is automatically more interested and motivated to get to know her.

A man gets turned on when a woman’s radiance makes him feel more like a man.

 Feminine radiance embodies the three characteristics of femininity:

1. Self-assurance: An air of grace and trust, self-respect. 

2. Receptivity:  The ability to receive what is given and not resent getting less; ability to benefit or find good in every situation.

3. Responsiveness: A man loves a woman with a smile. He loves to feel that he can make a difference, that he can make her happy.

The wisdom of waiting to be sexually intimate is that a man’s desire has a chance to grow into the higher levels of expression. 

His physical desire expands into the emotional desire to please the woman.

Having an exclusive relationship provides the foundation for lasting intimacy. A woman creates intimacy by honestly sharing more of who she is, and a man experiences increased intimacy by successfully supporting and nurturing more of who she is. As she discloses herself more, he can gradually get to know her. If he continues to be supportive as he gets to know her better, then the love he feels in his heart has a chance to grow.

When a woman becomes sexual before she is ready, she has stopped being receptive and becomes accommodating. She compromises her position. When she gives more in the relationship, she begins to expect more from the man, which makes her very unattractive. Female expectations are a turnoff for men.

 

The thing that surprises me most, though it makes a lot of sense, is the value to a man of pursuing and winning a woman. And the value to a woman of giving him the opportunity to do that.

We can either return to a way of relating that respects sex differences, or we can continue to ignore sex roles, asking women to be aggressors and men to be passive recipients.  While I think that it’s important and helpful for women to offer encouragement and show interest to men they find attractive, both sexes will realize the greatest benefit if women do this in response to male initiative.

{ 1542 comments… read them below or add one }

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1501 JP December 7, 2012 at 7:04 pm

@J:

“Wow. Poor Ann! It was hard enough for my kids to see their grandparents fall apart. What’s it like when it’s a parent?”

It’s horrible.

1502 Anacaona December 7, 2012 at 9:36 pm

I think a lot of us felt that way. I was fairly sure I’d never marry, that no one would ever love me, that I was unworthy, that men who seemed attracted only wanted a piece of ass, that maybe I was just a butterface. Sometimes, all you can do is live through it. It gets better for most people.

I was convinced till my early 20′s that I had a whore’s face given the high amount of married men that propositioned all sorts of arrangements towards me. I also though I was never going to get married because for me marriage was sacred so no chance in hell I will say yes. Things do get better if you are open to cast away what is making you bitter in my case I just needed to get rid of an entire country! Piece of cake :p

I’d also shame a woman for dating a mimbo.

I though the term was Himbo, my pop culture is failing? :(

1503 Susan Walsh December 7, 2012 at 9:48 pm

@Anacaona

I was convinced till my early 20′s that I had a whore’s face given the high amount of married men that propositioned all sorts of arrangements towards me.

That is terrible, I’m sorry you felt that way. I think you have a loving mother’s face…

I though the term was Himbo, my pop culture is failing

Mimbo is a Seinfeld reference – the male bimbo.

1504 J December 7, 2012 at 10:23 pm

Ana: I was convinced till my early 20′s that I had a whore’s face given the high amount of married men that propositioned all sorts of arrangements towards me.

SW: That is terrible, I’m sorry you felt that way. I think you have a loving mother’s face…

I agree that Ana is beautiful, but I fully understand what she felt. I think if a woman doesn’t have that blond, blue-eyed, innocent Sandra Dee look, some men will find her whorish looking. I had the same experience.

1505 HanSolo December 7, 2012 at 11:15 pm

@J

I love whorish-looking women! ;) Especially when they’re not whores.

1506 Passer_By December 8, 2012 at 12:39 am

@cooper

“Shall we now discuss the variations of vaginas?”

Umm, we were. that’s what led to the weenie talk.

@ana

Yeah, baby. Madonna in the streets, whore between the sheets. You got it goin’ on!

@susan

“He grabbed her by the arm, pulling her toward him and shouting, “Ann! Ann! Is that you?” ”

Yeah, I bet that didn’t freak her out at all. That’s downright creepy.

1507 deti December 8, 2012 at 11:08 am

“I can’t help but wonder if a lot of the psychic energy running the androsphere is frustration over not having been selected to form part of this fabled carousel.”

Oh, I think that’s some of it, but doesn’t quite get to the root of it. The flaw in MCB’s assumption is that everyone in the androsphere wants to be a PUA, which is nowhere near the truth. As has been said here and many other places, most men simply want to (1) improve themselves physically, mentally and monetarily; and (2) find one woman they can be with long term and learn to manage that relationship wisely.

The fear oft expressed here is that any man learning game wants to transform himself into a Roissy or a Roosh; and that our countrysides will be infested with roaming hordes of PUAs deflowering and ruining women from here to Juneau. This is never, ever going to happen; and even if men wanted that most couldn’t pull it off anyway. Only a tiny number of men can rack up Ns like college town bar sluts.

The root of the problem and what is “driving most of the psychic energy running” the manosphere is the fact that we’ve been lied to all our lives about what men are, what women find attractive, and what is really important to us and the people in our lives, and we’re trying to get to the bottom of it.

1508 Lokland December 8, 2012 at 11:28 am

@J

“I think if a woman doesn’t have that blond, blue-eyed, innocent Sandra Dee look, some men will find her whorish looking. I had the same experience.”

?
?

My experience has been the polar opposite.
Dumb blond in a tight skirt is the whore.
Brunette in the library is a girlfriend.

I went to school where something like 70% of the women were blondes.
They were definitely not favoured for relationships except by a few guys.

1509 OffTheCuff December 8, 2012 at 11:30 am

Deti, check out Badger’s latest post. The abundance mentality is what’s so desirable, the abundance itself is only as interesting as it is a sign of the mentality.

As for balls, they’re all tight and saggy, it’s a temperature thing. Learn your basic biology, ladies.

1510 Iggles December 8, 2012 at 1:21 pm

As for balls, they’re all tight and saggy, it’s a temperature thing. Learn your basic biology, ladies.

This comes off as rather condescending..

I was previously aware of this fact because I discussed it with my bf before and he explained why it happens, but I can’t fault others for not knowing. Women do not have balls so the answer to this inquiry isn’t inherently obvious to us.

I’m sure there are many aspects of the female body that you became aware of through either personal experience or discovering an article about it. Topics that weren’t covered in health class (so much is left out).

1511 Susan Walsh December 8, 2012 at 1:55 pm

@Passer By

Yeah, I bet that didn’t freak her out at all. That’s downright creepy.

LOL, you should have seen the look of sheer panic on her face. It would have been perfect if she’d fallen and ripped her prom dress, but as it was there was just a brief uncomfortable moment before she extricated herself.

1512 J December 8, 2012 at 5:58 pm

I love whorish-looking women! Especially when they’re not whores.

The thing is, I was always a rather conservative dresser and wore little make-up. I just think a Mediterreanean look says, “spicy” to some men.

My experience has been the polar opposite. Dumb blond in a tight skirt is the whore. Brunette in the library is a girlfriend.

I can see that as well. I was thinking though of a Grace Kelly vs. Sophia Loren sort of thing. Grace, though a champion rider of the Hollywood carousel, was the cool and lady-like one. Sophia was perceived as hot and earthy.

1513 Anacaona December 8, 2012 at 6:11 pm

That is terrible, I’m sorry you felt that way. I think you have a loving mother’s face…

and…
I agree that Ana is beautiful, but I fully understand what she felt. I think if a woman doesn’t have that blond, blue-eyed, innocent Sandra Dee look, some men will find her whorish looking. I had the same experience.

Thank you for the kind words. I still feel I did something wrong when I get hit on like “Did I wore too much make up?, Are this pants too thigh?” Is amazing what one carries for a long time even if logically speaking I know is not the case…

Yeah, baby. Madonna in the streets, whore between the sheets. You got it goin’ on!

Now I will have to kill you, only hubby knows for sure if that is the case and that is how I like it ;)

1514 HanSolo December 8, 2012 at 6:14 pm

@J

Often it’s not the clothes but something about the person that is sensual and is a real turn on.

1515 OffTheCuff December 8, 2012 at 6:34 pm

A bit, Ion.

Not knowing that the scrotum’s function is to regulate the temperature of the testes, which is critical to the production of viable sperm, via the raising or lowering closer/farther from the body… is like a man not knowing what “the little man in the boat” does, what a Fallopian tube is, or how eggs implant into the uterus. It is anatomical illiteracy, and you’d rightly think a man was an idiot for not knowing all three.

Now, if you didn’t understand how painful a kick in the nuts was, I can buy that. But the above are basic anatomical facts.

1516 OffTheCuff December 8, 2012 at 6:39 pm

(BTW, your original message implied that you didn’t know, and thought all “saggy” balls are gross. That’s like a man saying your period is revolting, rather than realizing it is normal and has a purpose.)

1517 Just1Z December 8, 2012 at 7:05 pm

the little man in the boat…

took me a while to twig that one. it was new to me, but cool!

thanks for the edumacation

1518 J December 8, 2012 at 8:47 pm

I still feel I did something wrong when I get hit on like “Did I wore too much make up?, Are this pants too thigh?” Is amazing what one carries for a long time even if logically speaking I know is not the case…

I doubt it. I think what Han said above is true. If men are attracted, they’ll pursue (for the most part).

1519 szopen December 9, 2012 at 1:46 am

@J

BTW, is szopen pronounced like Chopin?

I don’t know how do you pronounce chopin, but more or less, yes. Not because of my musical talents, but beacuse of my hair when I was younger.

1520 Susan Walsh December 9, 2012 at 9:11 am

(BTW, your original message implied that you didn’t know, and thought all “saggy” balls are gross. That’s like a man saying your period is revolting, rather than realizing it is normal and has a purpose.)

Isn’t there some variation among men? IOW, if you put all men in a room that is heated to 72, are all their sacks at the same degree of tightness/looseness? I don’t think so. I’ve seen men who appeared to hang way, way down, and others who were generally tucked up tight, over a variety of temperatures.

1521 Iggles December 9, 2012 at 12:51 pm

@ SW:

I’ve seen men who appeared to hang way, way down, and others who were generally tucked up tight, over a variety of temperatures.

:lol:

I would think so, but I’m no expert! I’m interested in hearing the guys weigh in.

1522 J December 9, 2012 at 2:18 pm

Thought so, thanks.

In English, it’s like show-pan.

1523 INTJ December 9, 2012 at 2:26 pm

@ Susan

I’ve seen men who appeared to hang way, way down, and others who were generally tucked up tight, over a variety of temperatures.

Well, you’d be the expert here. I would guess most men have only paid much attention to their own balls, so we can’t really judge variations between men.

1524 Ted D December 9, 2012 at 5:36 pm

HanSolo – “Often it’s not the clothes but something about the person that is sensual and is a real turn on.”

When I first met my wife she was wearing scrubs. For those not familiar, scrubs simply do nothing at all to show off a woman’s figure. I was instantly “interested” when I saw her walking in. I figured if she tripped my trigger that strongly in the equivilant of a potato sack, it could ONLY be better in a pair of jeans.

I never believed that anyone could trigger that strong of reaction by simply being present. But to this day I occasionally look at her coming into the room or perhaps far down an isle at the store and react the same way. It truly isn’t a conscious thing, and every time it happens it catches me off guard. I highly promote people to find someone that causes such a reaction and lock it down. I’ll even add this: the fact that I react so strongly to my wife gives me massive motivation to MAP my ass off. Every improvement I make increases her similar reaction to me. ;-)

Postive feedback loop? Don’t know or care because it works.

1525 Ted D December 9, 2012 at 5:41 pm

Re: balls – my natural body temp runs high, so more often than not I have a fair share of “hang” going on. That being said, if I get cold enough it looks very much like I’ve got a hairy walnut under my jolly rancher.

1526 JP December 9, 2012 at 5:47 pm

@TedD:

“When I first met my wife she was wearing scrubs. For those not familiar, scrubs simply do nothing at all to show off a woman’s figure. I was instantly “interested” when I saw her walking in. ”

Now, multiply this times ten, add romantic OCD, and you’ve got limerence.

1527 Just1Z December 9, 2012 at 6:06 pm

“jolly rancher”?

again with the new lingo?

“little man in a boat” yesterday had me scratching my nut for a few minutes, but Jolly Rancher?

1528 Ion December 9, 2012 at 7:00 pm

@ OTC

“(BTW, your original message implied that you didn’t know, and thought all “saggy” balls are gross. That’s like a man saying your period is revolting, rather than realizing it is normal and has a purpose.)”

Saggy breasts also have a perfectly normal biological function, doesn’t mean they are aesthetically pleasing.

I’ve only really seen floppy low hung balls in porn, balls that look wrinkled, discolored balls etc., There is definitely SOME variation in size and look.

1529 JP December 9, 2012 at 7:02 pm

“Saggy breasts also have a perfectly normal biological function, doesn’t mean they are aesthetically pleasing.

I’ve only really seen floppy low hung balls in porn, balls that look wrinkled, discolored balls etc., There is definitely SOME variation in size and look.”

Unsubscribe.

1530 Ion December 9, 2012 at 7:14 pm

INTJ “I would guess most men have only paid much attention to their own balls, so we can’t really judge variations between men.”

and Ted D “That being said, if I get cold enough it looks very much like I’ve got a hairy walnut under my jolly rancher.”

Pics or it didn’t happen!

@ JP “Unsubscribe.”

No way. Amateur porn is way better than sex ed class ever was.

1531 Sassy6519 December 10, 2012 at 12:15 am

That being said, if I get cold enough it looks very much like I’ve got a hairy walnut under my jolly rancher.

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

1532 szopen December 10, 2012 at 3:20 am

@J

In English, it’s like show-pan.

I won’t show.

1533 Ted D December 10, 2012 at 9:41 am

ION – ROFL! I don’t think anyone wants to see that, and I’m sure Susan would rather not have it on her blog.

Sassy – Sorry. If it makes you feel better, it only happens when I’m really cold. Needless to say we keep the bedroom rather warm, and I do my best not to have a need to “perform” right after getting out of the pool.

1534 Ted D December 10, 2012 at 9:45 am

JP – “Now, multiply this times ten, add romantic OCD, and you’ve got limerence.”

Well in that case I”m thankful that I don’t feel limerence to this extent. Basically as strongly as my wife turns me on, it never got much worse for me in the early part of the relationship. I found myself thinking about her a lot, but could easily push it aside to get stuff done. (most of the time) I never got very OCD about her, but I don’t get OCD about much. (thankfully, because if I DO fixate on something, it is intense and hard to ignore.)

That being said, I hated those early days for the way they made me feel. Off center, doubtful of my intuition, butterflies in the stomach. I really dislike the part of relationships most people love: the early stages of giddy happiness. I MUCH prefer the settled contentment I have now. But, that is also part of my downfall. I very easily become complacent, so I’m putting effort into keeping my head in the “game”, so to speak, by not allowing myself to become THAT comfortable.

1535 Susan Walsh December 10, 2012 at 10:30 am

@INTJ

Well, you’d be the expert here. I would guess most men have only paid much attention to their own balls, so we can’t really judge variations between men.

I believe you’ve said you don’t watch much porn, but I would imagine that most men have witnessed the rear view of plowing with testicles on full view thousands of times. My sample size is a just speck of sand in that desert…

1536 JP December 10, 2012 at 10:50 am

Porn movies = depravity = evil.

Unsubscribe!

Unsubscribe!

I’m trying to recall whether I watched a porn video more than once when I was in college, and that was when I was with a bunch of college friends.

1537 Ted D December 10, 2012 at 11:00 am

“Porn movies = depravity = evil.”

I’ll add that to the list of reasons I’m going to hell. ;-)

Man I REALLY hope God has a great sense of humor…

1538 JP December 10, 2012 at 11:11 am
1539 mr. wavevector December 12, 2012 at 2:19 pm

@ Susan #269,

Although I return to this thread long after it’s gone cold, I’d like to respond to your long comment (which I appreciate).

Third, I want to clarify that in describing myself as “strong and independent” I was not referring to being financially independent, obviously. Rather, I mean that I am capable of thinking and acting for myself.

I certainly appreciate why you feel the need to emphasize your independence in this way. Many uncomplimentary stereotypes of SAHMs have been promulgated in our culture, often by the career-first wing of feminists. No-one wants to be thought of as a Stepford Wife!

That said, I still find the refrain of “strong and independent woman” a bit off-putting. Let me try to explain why.

First, I think our culture overvalues autonomy. None of us is very strong. We all have many weaknesses and failings. And we aren’t very independent either. We are an intensely social species. We depend on each other for all that we have. Less autonomy and more community would do us good.

Second, a couple in a healthy committed relationship are deeply dependent on each other. One “we” is stronger than two “me’s”. One member of a couple advertising their independence strikes me as somewhat bad form.

Third, how would women feel if their husbands went around trumpeting their independence? I’m quite sure my wife would be upset if I did so. She might infer that I wasn’t fully engaged in the relationship.

You could argue correctly that our culture does not have a meme of husband as passive, obedient helpmeet, so the issue of independence is not symmetrical. But perhaps we should, as women often have greater situational power in a relationship.

I’m sorry to have tooted my own horn here, but I hope that I have provided one clear illustration of how an egalitarian marriage can work and thrive, with both parties deriving benefits and feeling very fortunate.

I agree with the quality of your marriage, and it sounds not unlike my own. But I find your description of it as “egalitarian” a bit curious. That’s what I would call a complementarian relationship, with each party playing different but valuable roles, according to their tastes and abilities.

Perhaps you mean that you and your husband are equal in worth, respect, and commitment to the relationship? I once had a feminist friend say to my wife and me that “you two seem very equal”, even though our roles would feel at home in a 1950′s TV show. I think it is these other dimensions of equality that she was responding to.

1540 Susan Walsh December 12, 2012 at 4:37 pm

Mr. Wavevector,

Thanks for circling back. I was afraid I had put you off for good. I think the points you make re “strong and independent” are valid – excellent in fact. I will keep that in mind when thinking of using those words to describe myself. IIRC, I said something in my long comment about married people taking care of each other – your point about deep mutual dependence is especially compelling.

But I find your description of it as “egalitarian” a bit curious. That’s what I would call a complementarian relationship, with each party playing different but valuable roles, according to their tastes and abilities.

I also find this valid, well said. I guess I’m a bit twitchy about the issue of equity, in case you didn’t notice. Part of that comes from my being widely derided and mocked online for having an “egalitarian” marriage. One man said, “Only two kids and not even home schooled!” I am guilty of having lumped you in with some rather unpleasant folks, which was not fair. Apologies.

1541 mr. wavevector December 12, 2012 at 5:06 pm

>I was afraid I had put you off for good.

Not at all. But as much as like your blog, sometimes life keeps me away from my internet habit!

1542 nicole January 26, 2013 at 7:09 pm

adoroooo

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