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Love American Style

Just some random tidbits I thought were funny as we head into the weekend.

Dad is haunted by a hookup at his kid’s school.

Dear John,

I have a young child who just started school this year. I noticed a particular woman at drop-off and pick-up time and scoured the school directory until my fears were confirmed: she is a woman I went to college with about twenty years ago. We had a drunken, regrettable one-night-stand that I know for a fact she felt really bad about later. (We had a couple of mutual friends.) We spent the rest of that school year trying to avoid each other, and we never spoke again. Never even saw each other again until now – and now we’ll obviously be seeing each other regularly. I have no idea if she recognizes me – I look a lot different now – and I have no idea what to do. Should I say something just so we can clear the air? Pretend that we’ve never met?

John advises him to approach the woman, remind her of the hookup and apologize if necessary. I think that’s terrible advice, nothing good will come of that. If I were him, I wouldn’t reveal myself to her or my wife. I would sail merrily along forever playing dumb. The only good thing about hooking up is that is gives you plausible deniability, might as well use it. 

J.R. Smith of the New York Knicks offers tips on dating an athlete.

He was motivated to post his tips to Instagram after this charming convo with a high school senior:

JR

Dating an Athlete

My favorite tip: Please them when needed.  I guess that means always be getting the pipe.

The most important thing you need to know? Don’t date an athlete.

Ke$ha’s new single Gold Trans Am is actually about her vagina.

“It began as a song about my car, which is a gold Trans Am, and it works about 40 percent of the time. I don’t have another car because I love that one so much. But then like all great pop, it became a metaphor for something else — my p—y. My vagina is in tip-top working order. Valeted and souped-up and working 100 percent of the time.

HuffPo reports that “Lest she stop there, Ke$ha went on to explain that she gets help on songs like “Gold Trans Am” from none other than her mom. “We write songs about boys and sex together,” she said. “That may not be normal to the average psychiatrist out there but I think it’s pretty cool.””

 

  • Society’s Disposable Son

    I read an article about Ke$ha in a magazine once where she describes how she has one of those “bff” relationships with her mom. She also mentions her and her mom trading BJ stories… terrible.. just like her music.

  • Rico

    I read an article about Ke$ha in a magazine once where she describes how she has one of those “bff” relationships with her mom.

    Which should surprise no one…

  • FeralEmployee

    watch?v=dd_A8nQoZ-w

  • http://loveashley.net Ashley

    That dad and his hookup woman would do well by getting over it. People make mistakes like this just like they make mistakes of other kinds. There’s no sense in carrying around unnecessary shame or guilt. Move on and laugh about it if nothing else.

  • Morgasm

    Smith better be careful there with the unsolicited sexual innuendo directed at a high school student who may or may not be of legal age of consent in her state. High School senior could mean 18, 17, even as young as 16 years old, depending.

    Plus what kind of ghetto-ass rudeness is it to ask a fan if she wants “pipe” just because she communicated she’s going to the game?! If I were her (or her parent) I would return the ticket, ask for my money back, and never spend another single cent promoting that hot mess.

    100 bucks says Smith don’t even know who he daddy is.

    American sports is the biggest enabler of the ghettoization of this country.

  • Ramble

    American sports is the biggest enabler of the ghettoization of this country.

    Well, except for Hockey. But, we won’t talk about that.

  • J

    I don’t know which I dislike more, Ke$ha or jocks.

    I agree with your advice about the old hook-up; best to ignore it unless she makes some overture. At that point, perhaps some words of regret, though perhaps not an apology, are in order.

  • Morgasm

    “We had a drunken, regrettable one-night-stand that I know for a fact she felt really bad about later. (We had a couple of mutual friends.) We spent the rest of that school year trying to avoid each other, and we never spoke again.”

    What’s with the drunk fetish in this country? Is that the only way y’all can get aroused?

  • Jesse

    Next time JR Smith hits a big shot in a game, I want to him to look round the stadium with a dramatic look on his face that says, I got the pipe.

    As for athletes in general, I think it’s a combination of:

    1) possible lack of intelligence (you don’t have to be smart to be a great athlete)

    2) definite lack of knowledge (you don’t become a learned, well-rounded person by dribbling a ball from the time you can walk)

    3) difficulty reading non-sexual social cues from women, especially when regularly presented with women who will drop their panties at the snap of a finger.

    Add all three together and you get, shall we say, inartful attempts at seduction.

    —-

    As for the hookup guy, sounds like he’s just being a pussy.

  • Bully

    Morgasm #5 – that would take integrity and self-respect, and that’s just too hard for people to do nowadays.

  • Jesse

    And there’s a long, long history of using automotive metaphors in song to describe sex.

    But please, keep the germs of modern popular music away from me. :P

  • Jackie

    Regarding athletes:

    There’s talk all the time around the ‘Sphere about the short shelf-lives of women before we become Medusas or hideous crones. But I think athletes are the true hothouse flowers.

    Even if they make it to full-scholarship in college, the percentage that goes pro is practically infinitesimal. There’s a great documentary on this entitled “Hoop Dreams” that is pretty enlightening about how the system chews them up and spits them out.

    I remember reading about a pro football player who went back to his old high school, to give a motivational talk. The player, who was black, was begging the kids –most of whom were African-American– to go to college/start a business instead of trying to go pro in sports. He said there’s at least a fighting chance for success that way.

    (Besides that, a colleague of mine has mentioned that there have been multiple suicides among former football players in their 30s, 40s, 50s. Their suicide notes have all asked the medical community to examine their brains for head trauma/concussions from football contributing to their issues.)

    As for their “groupies”– ugh! The mentality just looks utterly demeaning and it makes me wonder about these girls’ home lives and relationship (or lack thereof) with their fathers. :(

  • Morgasm

    Jesse, “As for athletes in general, I think it’s a combination of…..”

    Honestly, it ain’t that deep. I know the real reason(s) for it.

    This baller has about 100 tramp stamps all over his body;

    http://www.thewindyapple.com/2012/03/05/j-r-smith-tattoo-post/

    Look carefully, their themes reflect his consciousness.

    He got one for his mama and one for his grandma – more evidence he don’t know who he daddy is.

    And he’s got TWO KIDS!

    Now you know you’re not going to tell me a FATHER is tweeting sexual ladden tweets to a young high school teen!!!! Awww heeeeelllll naaaaw!

    If I were the parent I’d go for the juggler with this ho-ho-homie.

  • Jackie

    @Morgasm/PJ

    Plain Jane, I don’t think that people who imbibe do so in order to get turned on; I think they do it to either

    1) deaden the pain that a sober hookup would entail
    2) plausible deniability (“I was so drunk!” = escape hatch from accountability)
    3) give themselves the illusion of fun, as created by the media and advertising

    I’m not anti-alcohol; I just think drinking for the express purpose of getting sloppy drunk is sad and destructive. :(

  • OffTheCuff

    We drink to cope with our obvious cultural inferiority, PJ, otherwise we’d commit suicide. It’s a win win, either we escape from our wretched existence, or we die trying. What’s not to love?

  • http://www.4stargazer.wordpress.com Anacaona

    As for the hookup guy, sounds like he’s just being a pussy.
    Unless the guy is a skinny 5’5″ and the lady in question is a 6′ black belt whose nickname in college was “The Rib-Breaker” ;)

  • Vicomte

    Just responded to a text with ‘You trying to get the pipe?’.

    I this goes bad I blame Susan.

  • Vicomte

    Update:

    My brother was not trying to get the pipe.

  • Sam

    Kesha says she scored a 1500 on the SAT. I might buy that.

  • VJ

    Geez, That all sounds so stupid. A Gold TransAm that barely works? And you’re sitting on one too, right Ke$ha? And mom’s helping out your career? How very lovely. I had a similar vintage AMC Gremlin that barely worked too! It replaced a Hornet too. Me? I blame George Romney, Mitt’s dad for those really lousy cars. But GM was full of them, overly praised but barely passable as reliable ‘work-a-day’ machines of the era.

    And not to brag or anything, but I’ve got one of those regretful college situations too. Only I hear her regularly on NPR doing commentary now! How embarrassing!

    And I’m predicting the ‘athlete sex thread’ will degenerate rather quickly here also. Cheers, ‘VJ’

    • http://www.hookingupsmart.com Susan Walsh

      And not to brag or anything, but I’ve got one of those regretful college situations too. Only I hear her regularly on NPR doing commentary now! How embarrassing!

      Please tell me it isn’t Mara Liasson!

  • Höllenhund

    Ke$ha is pretty much predictable. Why don’t you write a short post about Taylor Swift instead?

    socialpathology.blogspot.hu/2012/12/the-slutification-of-taylor-swift.html?showComment=1356269196471#c3193577589789907483

    socialpathology.blogspot.hu/2012/12/the-slutification-of-taylor-swift.html?showComment=1356306313773#c7432512599558518203

  • Jon

    The hook-up guy should introduce himself and suggest getting together for coffee to catch up on old times. There’s no need to apologize though. It’s like The Verve Pipe song “Can’t be held responsible….we were only freshmen.” Blame the situation and admit that he’s sometimes wondered how things would have gone if they had gotten together under different circumstances.

    If things go well then the kids can have a play date while mom and dad have a play date too. Win-win! :)

    I didn’t see anything in his letter about being married, so I say “go for it Young and Stupid!”

  • Morgasm

    “Plain Jane, I don’t think that people who imbibe do so in order to get turned on; I think they do it to either

    1) deaden the pain that a sober hookup would entail
    2) plausible deniability (“I was so drunk!” = escape hatch from accountability)
    3) give themselves the illusion of fun, as created by the media and advertising”

    I don’t get. Why would sober safe sex between two consenting adults involve emotional pain or not be fun or be something one would seek to deny?

    “As for their “groupies”– ugh! The mentality just looks utterly demeaning and it makes me wonder about these girls’ home lives and relationship (or lack thereof) with their fathers.”

    Could be. But that girl simply tweeted him that she was coming to the game. Big deal. That in itself doesn’t speak to anything. Even if she would have been a desperate groupie seeking attention, that doesn’t mean her relationship with her father is necessarily bad or he is absent, though in this country both are plausible. It could simply mean she’s a teenager with the whole hormone change going on in her body and she’s seeking male attention from men outside of her father. We cannot use our dads as romantic surrogates. Nevertheless, whatever the case, this JR Smith is the legal adult in the situation and needs to behave like a responsible one and refrain from sexualizing tweets from teens.

    “We drink to cope with our obvious cultural inferiority, PJ, otherwise we’d commit suicide. It’s a win win, either we escape from our wretched existence, or we die trying. What’s not to love?”

    +1

  • Sai


    WHAT
    Just say no. Just say no to all of it.
    *fetal position*

    @Ramble
    “Well, except for Hockey. But, we won’t talk about that.”

    It’s been a while since I went to a hockey game, but I don’t remember many thuglifers. Is it really that bad? :(

  • Morgsm

    “Plain Jane, I don’t think that people who imbibe do so in order to get turned on; I think they do it to either

    1) deaden the pain that a sober hookup would entail
    2) plausible deniability (“I was so drunk!” = escape hatch from accountability)
    3) give themselves the illusion of fun, as created by the media and advertising”

    I don’t get. Why would sober safe sex between two consenting adults involve emotional pain or not be fun or be something one would seek to deny?

    “As for their “groupies”– ugh! The mentality just looks utterly demeaning and it makes me wonder about these girls’ home lives and relationship (or lack thereof) with their fathers.”

    Could be. But that girl simply tweeted him that she was coming to the game. Big deal. That in itself doesn’t speak to anything. Even if she would have been a desperate groupie seeking attention, that doesn’t mean her relationship with her father is necessarily bad or he is absent, though in this country both are plausible. It could simply mean she’s a teenager with the whole hormone change going on in her body and she’s seeking male attention from men outside of her father. We cannot use our dads as romantic surrogates. Nevertheless, whatever the case, this JR Smith is the legal adult in the situation and needs to behave like a responsible one and refrain from sexualizing tweets from teens.

    “We drink to cope with our obvious cultural inferiority, PJ, otherwise we’d commit suicide. It’s a win win, either we escape from our wretched existence, or we die trying. What’s not to love?”

    +1

  • Morgasm

    “The hook-up guy should introduce himself and suggest getting together for coffee to catch up on old times.”

    I’m sure his wife would appreciate that.

  • Morgasm

    “I don’t think that people who imbibe do so in order to get turned on; I think they do it to either

    1) deaden the pain that a sober hookup would entail
    2) plausible deniability (“I was so drunk!” = escape hatch from accountability)
    3) give themselves the illusion of fun, as created by the media and advertising”

    I don’t get. Why would sober safe sex between two consenting adults involve emotional pain or not be fun or be something one would seek to deny?

    “As for their “groupies”– ugh! The mentality just looks utterly demeaning and it makes me wonder about these girls’ home lives and relationship (or lack thereof) with their fathers.”

    Could be. But that girl simply tweeted him that she was coming to the game. Big deal. That in itself doesn’t speak to anything. Even if she would have been a desperate groupie seeking attention, that doesn’t mean her relationship with her father is necessarily bad or he is absent, though in this country both are plausible. It could simply mean she’s a teenager with the whole hormone change going on in her body and she’s seeking male attention from men outside of her father. We cannot use our dads as romantic surrogates. Nevertheless, whatever the case, this JR Smith is the legal adult in the situation and needs to behave like a responsible one and refrain from sexualizing tweets from teens.

    “We drink to cope with our obvious cultural inferiority, otherwise we’d commit suicide. It’s a win win, either we escape from our wretched existence, or we die trying. What’s not to love?”

    +1

  • Joe

    Ack. Random thought, then.

    I just went to the supermarket and saw the cover of one of those magazines at the checkout counter that turns people into celebrities for no apparent reason. This one make my head hurt.

    Is it really touting that the current object of that ridiculous “Bachelor” show is a virgin? – like that’s some sort of scandal?

    I take it that not only is slut-shaming a dead issue, but anyone who actually tries to remain chaste is held up to ridicule now. Or is that reserved for anyone who shows a little discipline and self-control? You youngin’s are confusing me here.

    That’s Love American Style, it seems. The shaming still exists. It’s just pointed in the opposite direction!

  • Ramble

    @Ramble
    “Well, except for Hockey. But, we won’t talk about that.”

    It’s been a while since I went to a hockey game, but I don’t remember many thuglifers. Is it really that bad?

    No, you misunderstood. It is just the opposite. Professional Hockey players are widely known to be the least likely to have illegitimate children and basketball players the most likely (amongst team sports…I believe that golf is the best amongst all of them). Of course, most “polite” people do not like talking about what could possibly be the difference.

  • Morgasm

    How about “Kids American Style”?

    The largest demographic of consumers; women? Think again.

    Its children.

    And you can bet the marketing agencies are all over it.

    Very creepy how they are identifying the various “youth markets”. Hiring psychologists to enter into bathrooms to study childrens’ reactions to and “relationships with” skin, hair and body products! As well as deconstructing child nagging and devising ways to get them to nag different for different products so as to get the parents to cave and buy them.

    See here if you have the stomach for it;

  • http://en.gravatar.com/marellus Marellus

    PJ,

    If you know of a website, or websites, where I can easily start a flame-war with someone, please let me know. I need an enemy even more than an orgasm. Preferably the topic should not be about gender. I am sick and tired of gender debates; you can’t win, and you can’t retreat; a bad combination that. But if you know of something else, let me know.

  • tsimmons

    Everyone seems outraged at Smith’s tweet, but there’s a 80-90% probability that she was, in fact, seeking the pipe.

    Maybe higher.

    “What’s with the drunk fetish in this country? Is that the only way y’all can get aroused?”

    People who undergo dramatic personality changes when they drink are accomplished actors and liars who are calculating their way through the conscious sober lives. They drink to break their own concentration long enough to live a few hours as their authentic selves. If the drunk you and the sober you are different people, the sober you is a mask and a lie. Unfortunately for many people of this sort, only the drunken version of themselves is able to enjoy sex.

  • Morgasm

    “Everyone seems outraged at Smith’s tweet, but there’s a 80-90% probability that she was, in fact, seeking the pipe.”

    We can’t know that and in any case, it doesn’t matter. He’s the legal adult, she’s the teen. He could be soliciting sex online from a minor, which is a crime or felon at the very least.

    You’ve never heard of “To Catch a Predator”?

  • OffTheCuff

    PJ: “I don’t get. Why would sober safe sex between two consenting adults involve emotional pain or not be fun or be something one would seek to deny?”

    There’s a web site called hooking up smart which explains that most women don’t like uncommitted sex and only do it to get boyfriends, and if the monogamy doesnt materialize, they are in pain. You should check it out sometime. Also, any sex outside of a realtionship is undesired, not bad or evil or immoral mind you, but it’s not desired.

  • HanSolo

    Women know what they’re getting with J. R. Smith, a guy who makes no secret that he likes to get laid and even tweeted a photo of some model’s butt he was with.

    If they put out for him it’s no one’s fault but their own.

    You could certainly say he’s a problem but short of making such activity illegal and enforced then he’s going to do what he’s going to do. So, there is the problem of 1 man doing this but there are the other 300 or 1000 women that have and will put out for him. By the numbers (and basically, by definition), there are more hypergamous women than high-status, player men able to indulge such women in their lofty pursuits. From these numbers you can see that women are collectively more to blame for such goings on but on an individual level these high-status, highly promiscuous guys are the ones with the concentrated blame, if you are inclined to lay blame anywhere.

    That’s why in assortive mating the key piece of the puzzle is to get the highly-desired men into marriages where adultery was severely limited (often by punishment or shame) so that they were essentially locked into one woman and the rest of the hypergamous women wouldn’t dare go trying to put out for such married men. Some cheating would still happen but not as much as today.

    Age of consent is 16 in most states and 17 or 18 in the rest. If it was a home game in NY and she’s a senior then it’s likely she is of the age of consent. She would be 17 or 18 by now and the age of consent is 17 in NY and 16 in the surrounding states of CT, NJ, and PA (http://www.webistry.net/jan/consent.html).

  • Morgasm

    “You could certainly say he’s a problem but short of making such activity illegal ….”

    My point: if she’s a legal minor in her state, online sexual solicitation is illegal.

  • HanSolo

    Yeah, but she probably isn’t. What state is she from?

    If she’s 18 then there are no states she’s a sexual minor in. If she’s 17 then she could be a sexual minor in only 7 or so states.

  • HanSolo

    http://latenightcreep.com/2013/02/22/jr-smith-exposed-telling-a-high-school-girl-i-know-you-want-this-dck/

    This says it was when he was in Philly for their game. Age of consent there is 16. So, sorry, Morgasm, no Catch-A-Predator conviction for you. lol

  • HanSolo

    https://twitter.com/RTNBA/status/304783693715755008

    There are many links claiming she’s 18 but I don’t see how they know that. You can see the pic of the girl in that link.

  • HanSolo

    https://twitter.com/RTNBA/status/304783693715755008/photo/1

    It gets even “better.” The big question of course is if she is trying to get the pipe.

    Her response?

    “Yea ;)”

  • HanSolo

    And, to finally put an end to the nonsense of him being a predator, she is asked on her twitter account how old she is and she says 18. Case closed.

    https://twitter.com/CallMeZaddyy_ See Feb. 22 message from BeenaBull

  • HanSolo

    And just because he’s not a predator in this case doesn’t mean he’s unsavory but then, again, tell that to all the women putting out for him.

  • HanSolo

    *not unsavory

    lol

  • Morgasm

    It gets even “better.” The big question of course is if she is trying to get the pipe.

    Her response?

    “Yea ;)

    She’s young and gullible and believes the popular urban myth that men from his particular demographic have big penises and are the best in bed.

    She’ll learn the truth very quickly.

    And let me tell you, its very disappointing.

  • Jimmy Hendricks
  • J

    I don’t get. Why would sober safe sex between two consenting adults involve emotional pain or not be fun or be something one would seek to deny?

    Because most people are really not emotionally constitiuted to enjoy casual or meaningless sex.

  • J

    @Vicomte #17/18

    LMAO

  • J

    @Jackie #14

    Such a smart girl!

  • Morgasm

    “I don’t think that people who imbibe do so in order to get turned on; I think they do it to either

    1) deaden the pain that a sober hookup would entail
    2) plausible deniability (“I was so drunk!” = escape hatch from accountability)
    3) give themselves the illusion of fun, as created by the media and advertising”

    “Because most people are really not emotionally constitiuted to enjoy casual or meaningless sex.”

    Regardless of emotional constitution, sober and safe sex between consensual adults is nothing to drink over.

  • Iggles

    We can’t know that and in any case, it doesn’t matter. He’s the legal adult, she’s the teen. He could be soliciting sex online from a minor, which is a crime or felon at the very least

    How did I miss this? I thought that was text between two teens! That dude is disgusting.

    @ HanSolo:

    This says it was when he was in Philly for their game. Age of consent there is 16. So, sorry, Morgasm, no Catch-A-Predator conviction for you. lol

    He may be out of legal hot water, but this guy is a sleaze. He should not be working with teenagers and I hope the parents at the school rightfully push for him to get FIRED. Now, that would be be “lol”.. :roll:

  • Iggles

    I stand corrected. He’s NOT a school coach, phew!!

    Still gross, but this is a teachable moment for this girl and her parents. One, they should be monitoring her internet usage. And, they should explain the reality that older men like JR don’t engage idle chatter with teenagers out of the kindness of the heart; they are after sex.

    It’s rather sad that in this day and age many parents don’t have frank talks which their daughters about what to watch out for. *shakes head*

  • Iggles

    Anyway, I think JR was being a dick with his pipe tweet, but IMO he’s like, “ok, random girl.. why are you messaging me?” I doubt he actually expected her to say “yes!” Though if she had, who knows?

    Either way sending the text had no downsides for him. He doesn’t know her. He’s not invested in her. It’s not his responsibility to treat with “kid gloves”.

    Harsh, but better she learn this now than later in life. Men who are strangers will not innately consider her “special”. They see her of as one of many who they’d like to have sex with – whether they actively try to get into her pants or not. She will remain a sexual object in their eyes, until they actually get to know her as an individual.

  • Jon

    Age of consent is 16 in most states and 17 or 18 in the rest. If it was a home game in NY and she’s a senior then it’s likely she is of the age of consent. She would be 17 or 18 by now and the age of consent is 17 in NY and 16 in the surrounding states of CT, NJ, and PA (http://www.webistry.net/jan/consent.html).

    A lot of people don’t realize that the age of consent is so low in many places. I know I was shocked to find out it was 16 in my state.

    If he had been a high school coach though like Iggles assumed at first, it would probably still be illegal. I didn’t research Pennsylvania, but where I live the age of consent jumps to 18 if you are in a position of authority (like a teacher or coach for example).

    I guess my point is that the link is a good place to start, but be sure to do your research if your thinking of getting involved with someone under 18.

  • Ramble

    And, they should explain the reality that older men like JR don’t engage idle chatter with teenagers out of the kindness of the heart; they are after sex.

    The fact that she is messaging a basketball player and not a research scientist should tell you that she was not initiating this from a place of innocence and he was not responding from a place of innocence.

  • Ramble

    I know I was shocked to find out it was 16 in my state.

    Jon, would you also be shocked to find out that 16 year olds in other states with older age of consent laws are having sex?

    If you don’t know what’s what at 16, your parents have failed you. We need better minimum IQ laws for pregnancy, not better minimum age laws for sex.

  • HanSolo

    @Iggles

    I agree JR is a sleaze, but so what? You think he gives a fuck what you or I think? All the focus on shaming him isn’t going to change his behaviour one bit.

    You did see that she replied “yea” with a wink and an emoticon with hearts in her eyes to the question of her wanting the “pipe”? Assuming she’s not just some troll then she’s wanting to get down with him. Plus, her picture had some big cleavage in it and she was 18 (though JR wouldn’t have known one way or the other at that point).

    Anyway, I just don’t think it makes any sense to criticize him and not her. This idea that 18 y/o women (or girls, if you prefer) can’t think and be responsible is part of the problem that exacerbates their bad or foolish behaviour.

    She has the legal right to have sex after 16 and so she also has the responsibility of how she engages in that. Diverting from that fact will solve nothing.

    Susan’s pointing out how many player athletes think is smart, and JR is doing women a favor in a sense in being so blunt and not hiding his intentions one bit.

    Shaming him is fine but it won’t accomplish much. Shaming or at least questioning the women who go after him is likely going to be more effective, but no, it’s all sympathy and kindness for an 18 y/o woman who knows exactly what she wants (assuming she’s not a troll or just an attention whore which are both possibilities).

    Women need to get it in their heads that cads or hardened players like JR (he may be a cad but at least he’s a relatively honest one) don’t respond to shaming. They only respond to not getting pussy or perhaps legal consequences (which in this case there are none). The only type of men that respond to women’s shaming are beta types, and ironically, most of them don’t really need any more reasons to be ashamed of their (often somewhat more noble) interest and intentions with women.

    Betas have such a scarcity attitude about sex that they can be shamed into action or inaction by what most women say because they fear losing the approval of the herd.

    Alpha cads cannot be shamed and they’re getting more than enough sex in the current environment. The only way to get them to change is through the herd stopping to put out for them or to change laws to make it illegal for them to get lots of pussy. The latter just ain’t gonna happen.

    So, then what can be done? Gotta work on the pealing off some of the women from putting out so much for such men, either through reasoned approaches (like Susan pointing out what the mentality of the alpha cad/player is) or through shaming. But I bet if she did sleep with him that a lot of her friends would be applauding her, a few would silently disapprove and maybe one or two would warn her. Would anyone shame her? Maybe, but I’m doubtful, and it would be more likely to be a rival or enemy and so she wouldn’t take that shaming as seriously.

    • http://www.hookingupsmart.com Susan Walsh

      FTR, I shared the JR list of dating tips because I thought it was funny. I am not interested in shaming either JRS or his high school playmate, who are probably perfect for each other.

  • OffTheCuff

    Excellent post, HS. I was thinking the same thing, but you have the alpha cred to deliver it.

  • Jon

    @Ramble

    “Jon, would you also be shocked to find out that 16 year olds in other states with older age of consent laws are having sex?”

    No. My surprise has nothing to do with teenagers having sex.

    It’s the idea that where I live an adult could have sex with a 16 year old and not end up in jail that was shocking. While a lot of people may be physically/sexually mature by that age, I have enough friends with teenage kids to know that’s typically where the maturity stops.

  • Iggles

    @ Ramble:

    The fact that she is messaging a basketball player and not a research scientist should tell you that she was not initiating this from a place of innocence and he was not responding from a place of innocence.

    + 1

    @ HanSolo:

    I agree JR is a sleaze, but so what? You think he gives a fuck what you or I think? All the focus on shaming him isn’t going to change his behaviour one bit.

    Nope. He’s keeping it moving. You and I are just sharing our opinions about his exchange on Twitter. No more no less.

    As for changing his behavior? No chance of that happening, but I really don’t see for reason to care either way because as you mentioned hes honest about his douchiness. He shouldn’t be hitting on high school students, but 1) it’s not clear that he knew how young she was when he replied and 2) high school students shouldn’t be flirting with him! (Again, parents should mind their kids!)

    Anyway, I just don’t think it makes any sense to criticize him and not her. 

    Any humiliation she may feel for her tweets going viral is par for the course, IMO. Her stupidity/naivety (take your pick) is a teachable moment for both parents and girls like her.

    I don’t think she’s some innocent victim (see my agreement with Ramble). However, none of that negates that I personally thought his tweet was sleazy, not just for how he worded it but because of the age difference between them. Yet, IMO, his reply was consistent with who he is. He would have said to any random woman who messaged him, regardless of age. No misrepresentation for this girl or anyone else to be like “I’m shocked he would say that!”

    My takeaway is that parents should be monitoring their kids, teen girls who reach out to unknown grown men should understand those men have no reason to sugarcoat their intentions, and that JR’s response to all this on instagram was pretty damn funny..
    (I’m preemptively noting, no it did not inspired any tingles! Just giving props for wittiness :lol: )

  • Sassy6519

    I have started going around asking people whether or not they are “trying to get the pipe”. I can thank him for giving me such a great line to use.

    • http://www.hookingupsmart.com Susan Walsh

      I have started going around asking people whether or not they are “trying to get the pipe”. I can thank him for giving me such a great line to use.

      Haha, that’s the best part of the whole thing. That phrase is not even on Urban Dictionary yet!

  • Morgasm

    2) high school students shouldn’t be flirting with him! (Again, parents should mind their kids!)

    Anyway, I just don’t think it makes any sense to criticize him and not her.

    Any humiliation she may feel for her tweets going viral is par for the course, IMO.
    ——–

    Humiliation for tweeting “I’m going to the game”?!?!?

  • Morgasm

    Jon, “If things go well then the kids can have a play date while mom and dad have a play date too. Win-win! :)”

    A win/win? FOR WHO?

    ” I didn’t see anything in his letter about being married, so I say “go for it Young and Stupid!”

    Great. Another advocate of single parent dating.

    These people need to get their asses home and take care of their damn kids and stop trying to get laid. Its nothing more than child neglect.

  • Morgasm

    “If you don’t know what’s what at 16, your parents have failed you. We need better minimum IQ laws for pregnancy, not better minimum age laws for sex.”

    The human brain is not fully developed until around the age of 25. I’m not aware that IQ and socio-sexual awareness are correlated.

    “The fact that she is messaging a basketball player and not a research scientist…”

    Hilarious!

    Athletes are well known celebrities, research scientists are not.

  • HanSolo

    @Iggles

    Yes, her parents should be more involved, but still, she is now a quasi-adult in terms of her rights (she can vote, have sex, have a child or an abortion, can’t drink legally).

    I was simply pointing out that if he was a sleaze for asking about whether her intentions were pipeward bound then so was she for confirming that that they were but up til this point the comments had been just calling him one and no attention was being given to her, an equal participant.

    That reminds me of the post on Jacob, the underachiever and internet dater, where he was disparaged but no attention was being given to the women choosing him. In any voluntary sexual relationship there are two willing parties and so to only focus on one (and the man, no less) makes no sense.

  • HanSolo

    @Iggles

    I also think that teens aren’t given enough responsibility and allowing extended adolescence without the need to work or study hard harms them.
    Kids have all these protections and their parents have to provide for them til they’re 18 but the kids don’t have to do anything. (And I’m not advocating sending kids into the coal mines or factories again.)

    I think grades 1-12 should be condensed into 9 or 10 years with more separation into trades and academic pursuits. The trade people can graduate at 15 or 16 and be ready to start a job or apprentice further and the academically-inclined-and-capable kids can go onto university and graduate by 19 or 20. Those who realize later they want to switch tracks can do so.

    This would make kids realize they need to be responsible sooner and can’t just F around in high school. It would provide more skilled labor and that would help the economy grow (assuming there are jobs available and that robots and computers haven’t taken over all work by then) and have more tax payers and innovators contributing sooner.

  • Jesse

    Plain Jane, I don’t think that people who imbibe do so in order to get turned on; I think they do it to either

    1) deaden the pain that a sober hookup would entail

    I’m not saying you’re wrong, but Jesus, this is amazing. I cannot wrap my mind around the logic. I thought people hook up because it’s fun?

    I mean, if I were bracing myself for something really unpleasant then yeah, I might get smashed just to get through it, but in my mind sex is not on that list of things.

    As for JR Smith, I guess it’s nice to have those opportunities, but the whole thing just seems so brazen and intellectually unstimulating. If they do meet, it’s not like they’re going to engage in any conversation or flirtation, are they? They’re just going to get straight down to business. I struggle to differentiate between that and masturbation, and it just seems blah and unfulfilling.

    I remember a quote from an old-time race car driver about how he found prostitution totally uninteresting because it lacked the risk and effort entailed. At first I didn’t understand what he meant, but now I think I do.

  • Iggles

    @ HanSolo:

    I was simply pointing out that if he was a sleaze for asking about whether her intentions were pipeward bound then so was she for confirming that that they were but up til this point the comments had been just calling him one and no attention was being given to her, an equal participant.

    Where did she confirm she wanted his pipe? All of the screen grabs I saw ended after his comment.

    @ Jesse:

    As for JR Smith, I guess it’s nice to have those opportunities, but the whole thing just seems so brazen and intellectually unstimulating. If they do meet, it’s not like they’re going to engage in any conversation or flirtation, are they? They’re just going to get straight down to business. I struggle to differentiate between that and masturbation, and it just seems blah and unfulfilling.

    I agree, but different strokes for different folks I guess. *shrug*

  • HanSolo
  • J

    Regardless of emotional constitution, sober and safe sex between consensual adults is nothing to drink over.

    I was giving you an explanantion of a phenomenon, not a justificattion. You asked why people do it. That’s why.

  • J

    I have started going around asking people whether or not they are “trying to get the pipe”. I can thank him for giving me such a great line to use.

    LMAO. I asked DH to “give me the pipe” last night.

  • HanSolo

    Here’s Chinese love, internet dating style.

    http://www.vice.com/read/face-shapes-and-blood-types-wading-into-the-world-of-online-dating-in-china

    With an excess of tens of millions of single men, the women there can afford to be pickier…and they are! lol

  • http://www.4stargazer.wordpress.com Anacaona

    I haven’t done the tassels thing with my hubby yet (Can’t find the damn things) now I will do it while singing “Give me your pipe” I doubt I can’t do with a straight face :D

  • Iggles

    HanSolo – Thanks for the link. Couldn’t find the rest of convo anywhere. I swear, Google gets more censored everyday :P

  • Morgasm

    “I don’t think that people who imbibe do so in order to get turned on; I think they do it to either

    1) deaden the pain that a sober hookup would entail”

    Jesse, “I’m not saying you’re wrong, but Jesus, this is amazing. I cannot wrap my mind around the logic. I thought people hook up because it’s fun?

    I mean, if I were bracing myself for something really unpleasant then yeah, I might get smashed just to get through it, but in my mind sex is not on that list of things.”

    - That’s my point too. I can’t understand it at all.

  • Morgasm

    “Here’s Chinese love, internet dating style…”

    - I clicked on that link and two things stood out to me as an Asian from down under China, that is South Asia.

    “The Mandarin term shengnu literally means “leftover woman.” It was coined to describe China’s growing crop of middle-class women who, thanks to new educational and economic opportunities, have been able to rise to unprecedented ranks within Chinese society—at the expense of their love lives. Nearing (or heaven forbid passing) the age of 30, these women find themselves materially successful but romantically unattached.”

    - Sex ratios are skewed heavily in two states in India; Haryana and Punjab. These states also have the reputation as being the most macho and male-chauvinist-piggish in all of India, though all other states come in a close second. Basically not too long from now, due to sex selective abortions, the females being few in number will be able to negotiate and call the shots. From personal experience I can say that a very large number of Indian women do not see marriage and family life in favorable light because of the joint family system in which the bride is expected to go and live in her mother and father-in-law’s home as free slave labor. Many would rather go without marriage and live for the rest of their lives in their own parents home than do that.

    More from the article about China;

    “As a female in her mid-20s living in China with a graduate degree and no significant other, I’ve been particularly sensitive to the term’s use. But while local media and gossipy mothers often use it derisively, my leftover sisters and I have come to embrace it as a badge of honor worn by independent women who know what they want and are unwilling to settle.”

    - This will soon happen in Haryana and Punjab. Good.

    “And why should we. In 1979, the One-Child Policy was implemented to curb population growth. Because of culturally ingrained preferences for male heirs over female dowries, experts estimate there could be more than 180 million single men now in China, with up to 50 million failing to ever find wives over the next 20 years. That’s the population of California and Pennsylvania in the form of single, lonely Chinese men.”

    - India refuses to curb population and sex selective abortion there has nothing to do with population but everything to do with ” culturally ingrained preferences for male heirs over female dowries”.

    “But just like democracy, dating in China has developed distinct Asian characteristics. Your blood type, face shape, and willingness to have your future in-laws live with you are treated as basic information ”

    - Interesting. Haryani and Punjabi women might start demanding this now too. A reversal of the bride-to-in-laws-joint-family-home tradition.

    The future of East and South Asia lies with its women. Finally!
    Its been a long time comin’.

  • https://en.gravatar.com/jimbocollins Megaman

    @HS

    That reminds me of the post on Jacob, the underachiever and internet dater, where he was disparaged but no attention was being given to the women choosing him.

    Though Susan did call him “ruined for monogamy”, she also described the women sleeping with him as “hopelessly unrestricted” (or words to that effect). I don’t recall anybody in that particular situation actually being taken seriously.

    Couple that with the recent article/study WRT rank dishonesty in online dating, is there any reason to admire these morons? Maybe they were all embellishing to some degree…

  • HanSolo

    @MM

    I don’t think that most of the women he had dated were hopelessly unrestricted or words to that effect. I think they wanted an LTR or marriage and tried one with him or tried to obtain it with him. With many other possible men to choose from, it raises the question, why were they choosing him?

    Most of the focus in the comments in that post were on how he was such a slacker, a douche, a man unworthy…. And I rightly raised the question that cut to the heart of the matter, “why are these women choosing him?”

    And that is the question I ask so many of my female friends that have other options but date, marry or hookup with assholes, “Of all the guys you could have picked, you picked him? And then you were surprised when he turned out to be an asshole?” It’s not just the hooking up that ruins the market for women, it’s also their choosing poorly in too many cases when they do choose to have an LTR or marry. Why? Because to some extent that rewards that behaviour in men and thus encourages it in others and leaves some of the good guys single for longer than if they had chosen more wisely.

  • Ramble

    It’s the idea that where I live an adult could have sex with a 16 year old and not end up in jail that was shocking.

    So some 18 yr old guy has sex with a (willing) 16 year old girl and you think his (soon to be raped) ass should end up in prison?

  • Jesse

    I agree, but different strokes for different folks I guess. *shrug*

    I’m not saying I wouldn’t entertain an offer from a woman who propositioned me point-blank, but I have to think a lot of the fun is in the chase, and I’d not like to be robbed of that. She’d have to be pretty damn attractive to offset my reservations, so I’d definitely be picky about it.

    I think I also have a strong preference for being the active party in these matters, so just flatly being propositioned for sex out of nowhere might rub me the wrong way. If I say yes I’m just complying, which is not the position I like to be in. I could easily see myself dismissing her, because I like to be in charge, and maybe because I’m a bit of a dick. If I did say yes I’d have to assert my dominance physically during the act.

  • https://en.gravatar.com/jimbocollins Megaman

    @HS

    Because to some extent that rewards that behaviour in men and thus encourages it in others and leaves some of the good guys single for longer than if they had chosen more wisely.

    I located the Blog Queen’s primary observation WRT the types of women this “slacker” was rolling in:

    Now, he’s dating several women at once, most of whom had sex with him on the first or second date. IOW, unrestricted gals. The one he likes is making him wait for sex, so he’s going to dump her.

    IMO smart, single guys looking for serious GFs wouldn’t take lessons in love from women like that, nor guys like Jacob. Why would they? The whole scenario reads like a bad cliché. Beware overrating the influence and importance of online testimonials like this…

  • http://www.4stargazer.wordpress.com Anacaona

    @Sai
    I lost your email. Can you shoot me a message ASAP. I found your celebrity match! :)

  • Morgasm

    That “Dating an Athlete” list is pretty much what EVERYONE wants from a partner, and good luck finding someone who will do all those things for you all the time.

    If we’re lucky we get half of them at least half the time.

  • Emily

    >> “Most of the focus in the comments in that post were on how he was such a slacker, a douche, a man unworthy…. And I rightly raised the question that cut to the heart of the matter, “why are these women choosing him?” ”

    A lot of that is less about “shaming” the player to try to convince him to stop (which I agree wouldn’t work) and more about employing a sort of reverse-preselection so the women will stop seeing guys like that as desirable. If the guy is a loser, then it’s also strongly implied that the girls who sleep with guys like that are also losers.

  • Underdog

    Just to clear things up, JR Smith does have a father. His father has all of his trophies and awards in his living room and appears to be very proud of his son. And rightfully so.

  • Jason773

    This post was funny, but LOL at the comments trying to shame the athlete. As always, the athlete’s actions are only a response, not the cause.

    Let’s not forget that Wilt Chamberlain claimed to have slept with 20,000 (yes, you read that right, 20,000) women in his lifetime. But of course, all 20,000 of those women were either losers, skanks, hoes, low class or somehow not in control of their own actions.

  • http://bastiatblogger.blogspot.com Bastiat Blogger

    Re: Smith. His Twitter exchange brought to mind Thucydides: “The strong do what they can, and the weak suffer what they must”.

    In another recent thread there was a discussion on shit-testing tactics: a woman requests compliance to an unreasonable or otherwise subordinating request. The man who complies has “failed” the shit-test since the woman’s covert goal was actually to provoke him into denying her (i.e., she meant to kick his psychological tires and reassure herself that she was with a leader, alpha, ballsy man, etc. ).

    I was trying to think of ways that men might shit-test women, and had occasion to get input on his topic from some friends on Sat night. We all agreed that there actually is a form of male shit-test that roughly mirrors the female variant, and I could call it the “Fiduciary Responsibility Shit-Test.”

    The purpose of this test is to determine if the woman in question possesses the budget-consciousness and team ethos appropriate for wife candidacy. The man asks the woman if he can take her out on a traditional date that will involve a reasonably expensive set of activities. He secretly wishes for the woman to stop him and to say something like, “You take me out all the time. Let’s be less reckless with your money. Why don’t we do something simple, like cook at home, watch ‘Game of Thrones’, and fuck?”

    If the woman complies with his request, she has failed this particular shit-test by failing to show that she is a prudent fiduciary, interested in being a steward of a shared budget, etc. Few men will next her for this, but I can begin to cause a slow deterioration in wifey candidacy status.

    It is important to note that this form of shit-test is usually reserved for girlfriends—in the initial stages of a relationship, the typical guy is not overly concerned these more mundane aspects of domestic compatibility.

    Anyway, just an FYI for the girls here. Might be a useful counter-measure to have in your bag of tricks!

    • http://www.hookingupsmart.com Susan Walsh

      We all agreed that there actually is a form of male shit-test that roughly mirrors the female variant, and I could call it the “Fiduciary Responsibility Shit-Test.”

      The purpose of this test is to determine if the woman in question possesses the budget-consciousness and team ethos appropriate for wife candidacy

      +1!
      I consider this an excellent filter for qualifying a woman’s LTR potential. In fact, I’d take it a step further – filter out the women who are all about going out on the town constantly, shop till they drop, etc. One woman I know had her daughter tell the husband that Valentine’s Day gifts would no longer be accepted if they did not come in an aqua box tied with a white ribbon (Tiffany’s reference for those who don’t know). What a bitch. Then again, she was 45 and her husband was 75. She didn’t marry him for his looks.

  • http://bastiatblogger.blogspot.com Bastiat Blogger

    *Sorry for the typos

  • https://en.gravatar.com/jimbocollins Megaman

    But of course, all 20,000 of those women were either losers, skanks, hoes, low class or somehow not in control of their own actions.

    Or non-existent, as the case may be. According to Rod Roddewig, Wilt basically pulled the number out of thin air following a 10-day bender (bedding 23 women, allegedly) in Hawaii in the mid-1980s. Simple math certainly wasn’t his strong suit. Though I have no doubt a guy like that scored 20,000 times over the years… all by himself!

  • Jason773

    Megaman,

    Yea, there was sarcasm in my post, and I am sure hyperbole with that number, but it still wouldn’t surprise me if the number was something like 5,0000-10,000, as he never married and lived past 60yo. Athletes in America, whether basketball, football, baseball or hockey, pretty much have girls spreading their legs and throwing themselves at you on a nightly basis.

  • http://bastiatblogger.blogspot.com Bastiat Blogger

    I’d groundlessly speculate that Wilt was probably around N=3000-5000. He was a legendary swordsman (pipesman?). To put it in context, Tiger Woods apparently cheated on his wife with over 100 women over their 5 year marriage, and he at least had to *pretend* to be a squeaky-clean family man. Wilt the Stilt didn’t even pretend.

  • https://en.gravatar.com/jimbocollins Megaman

    @J773

    Athletes in America, whether basketball, football, baseball or hockey, pretty much have girls spreading their legs and throwing themselves at you on a nightly basis.

    Unrestricted groupies! One could wonder how a loaded athlete or drugged up rock star could even tell if he’s sleeping with a new girl or one he’s already been with (not to mention his contemporaries). Hence the problem with “1,000″ or “5,000″ or “10,000″ different women. No way to verify.

    The thing about a guy like Wilt… all those years supposedly sleeping around, particularly during the 1970s and 1980s when contraceptives and safe sex were low priorities. He admitted to never having a single biological child. Did he pick up something nasty that impeded his ability to contribute to the gene pool?

    I’ll admit he’s a source of humor for a restricted guy like me, not admiraton (except for his BB skills). Case in point, everybody knows about the 20,000 claim, but he also said this:

    With all of you men out there who think that having a thousand different ladies is pretty cool, I have learned in my life I’ve found out that having one woman a thousand different times is much more satisfying.

    That makes him sound like A. C. Green, his polar opposite in the NBA! :shock:

  • Escoffier

    I’m probably banned, but in case I’m not, a pedantic but important point:

    It is a mistake, BB, to attribute that quote to Thucydides, if by that you mean it represents Thucydides’ own views. It does appear in Thucydides’ book, but in the mouth of a character–a historical figure, but one delivering a speech that Thucydides did not hear and could not have heard and so had to invent; much the same as Pericles’ funeral oration in the same book: real person, invented speech.

    The character in this case is the Athenian ambassador to the island of Melos, a small independent city-state island in the Aegean that Athens wishes to recruit into its war with Sparta. Melos, however, wishes to remain neutral. The ambassador says, in effect, you are either with us or against us. If the latter, you will be destroyed. The leader of the Melian assembly protests that such would be unjust. To which the ambassador replies with your quote (among others). The upshot is, there is no justice or injustice. Justice is what they strong do, injustice is what the weak suffer and object to. Everywhere, might makes right. (The same position, by the way, of Thrasymachus in Plato’s Republic and Callicles in the Gorgias. Both are refuted by Socrates.)

    The Melians refuse to join Athens and are, indeed, destroyed. As in, all adult males killed, the women and children enslaved, the city re-populated as an Athenian colony.

    However–and this is crucial–Thucydides indicates between the lines that not only does he not share the official Athenian view (and remember, Thucydides was himself an Athenian) but that he in fact disapproves. Moreover, he shows how the argument of the Athenian ambassadors contributed to Athens’ eventual defeat. That rhetoric (along with the aforementioned funeral oration, which identifies Athens’ war effort solely as a matter of glory and empire and ignores justice) undermined Athenian morale. It made people cynical.

    Thucydides’ ultimate judgment, IMO, is that Sparta won because Sparta at least had a plausible claim to a just cause (defense), which positively motivated the Spartan people. Athens lost because its openly relativistic/nihilistic/selfish casus belli dispirited and eventually corrupted the Athenian people. As a great scholar once put it, “It is ultimately impossible to encourage citizens to indulge their passion for ‘having more’ at the expense of other cities without also encouraging the same passion at the expense of fellow citizens” (quoted from memory and not exact).

    The point is, with some authors, quoting is fraught. As a writer and thinker, Thucydides actually believed almost the precise opposite of what that quote says.

    Carry on.

    • http://www.hookingupsmart.com Susan Walsh

      No, not banned.

  • http://asinusspinasmasticans.wordpress.com Mule Chewing Briars

    It may come as something of a surprise to those who read here, but there are men who are just plain good at sex, can ensure that even a one-night stand can be a, uh, memorable experience, and are quite highly sought after as a result.

    I don’t know if more athletes fall into this category, but they do have youth and stamina on their side. My suspicion is that pro athletes, being highly paid young men, are desperately sought after by apex women anyway, and their sexual prowess is generally not an issue.

  • http://asinusspinasmasticans.wordpress.com Mule Chewing Briars
  • blogRot

    regarding the ‘haunted hookup’: I’m undecided on the merits about confronting the hookup-ee (could go either way, judgement call) but 1 – do not tell the wife, ever, and 2 – apologizing for a past hookup is just absurd.

    My own ‘haunted hookup’: in this most recently passed century I was in the Navy on a submarine primarily based out of Pearl Harbor. Fast forward to ~2009, a too-damned-hot Texas evening and I’m digging in my yard expanding my driveway. The octogenarian across the street has her grandson staying for a few weeks with wife and daughter. That wife and daugther are caring for the dog the septuagenarian neighbor closest to my drive way that I’m shovelling and travel over to feed it every evening after work, a polite ‘hello’ or nod of the head is all that passes. She looks familiar, as in she sort of looks like that girl I had (consenting) events with during an extended port call, the kind of (consenting) events one has when you’ll truly never worry about having to run in to them ever again, and while that tatoo could be common the placement of it sort of looks too familiar. On the third and final day I’m excavating I have to comment as they pass.
    Were you in the Navy?
    “Yes.”
    Stationed on [name of submarine tender*] at Guam?
    Her eyes narrow, almost hisses an inquisitive “Yes.”
    As the child continued to the neighbor’s backyard, How old is your daughter?
    Long pause + hostile stare. “Not old enough for you to be concerned about” and that girl did look too young to be a bastard of mine, but truthfully I had a nagging/hopeful(?) doubt and wanted to be 100% sure.
    I turned my back on her and continued with the pavement tiles, she stayed frozen and burned holes in my back with her eyes until her daughter was done and they went back across the street.
    They departed shortly after, and I have not seen her again (though the grandson’s SUV shows up every summer for a few days; I just haven’t seen them out). No way in heck will I tell my wife of that encounter. And I’m assuming that since the grandson hasn’t come over to lay me flat that she hasn’t told her husbad about it, either. Is it a small f’n world, or what?!

    Education time (a bonus for those reading my tripe): for those of you not knowledgable about our military navy a submarine tender is a classification of a large ocean going vessel (about as large as an aircraft carrier, ~1300 crew) used in a support role to repair and resupply (all-male) submarines, and could forward deploy to locales like Guam or remain state side. They typically have workshops available to affect major repairs, and allsub tenders I had experience with of were mixed gender crews. The female crews had (and probably still does) a reputation of the sort of which there are very few terms I can retell in polite company, some of which were outright prostitutes.

    50/50 chance I delete this before Submit.

    • http://www.hookingupsmart.com Susan Walsh

      @blogRot

      Her eyes narrow, almost hisses an inquisitive “Yes.”
      As the child continued to the neighbor’s backyard, How old is your daughter?
      Long pause + hostile stare. “Not old enough for you to be concerned about” and that girl did look too young to be a bastard of mine, but truthfully I had a nagging/hopeful(?) doubt and wanted to be 100% sure.

      What a story! You put the kindergarten dad to shame!

      50/50 chance I delete this before Submit.

      So glad you didn’t. I love it when people share their stories. You can’t make this stuff up!

  • Jesse

    Dammit.

    (pipesman?)

    You’ve given me a whole new way of thinking about using the pipe on Miss Scarlett in the study.

    • http://www.hookingupsmart.com Susan Walsh

      You’ve given me a whole new way of thinking about using the pipe on Miss Scarlett in the study.

      LOL! Throw in the rope for extra fun.

  • Escoffier

    My recollection re: Wilt was not that it was an off-hand comment. Rather, he wrote it in his memoirs/auto-bio. I didn’t read the book but it got a lot of coverage when it came out and the 20,000 figure was widely cited and subject to much skepticism. Sounds rather fantastical to me, but who knows.

    Hugh Hefner, I recall reading somewhere, claims an N of “only” 1,000, which I can believe.

  • Jesse

    Quality over quantity.

  • http://bastiatblogger.blogspot.com Bastiat Blogger

    Escoffier, great insights. I was aware of the context re: Melian Dialogue, but of course enjoyed your learned commentary nonetheless. My preferred quote attributed to Thucydides is: “Of all expressions of power, restraint impresses men the most.”

  • Escoffier

    “The grounds and motives of every action he setteth down before the action itself, either narratively, or else contriveth them into the form of deliberative orations in the persons of such as from time to time bare sway in the commonwealth. After the actions, when there is just occasion, he giveth his judgment of them; shewing by what means the success came either to be furthered or hindered. Digressions for instruction’s cause, and other such open conveyances of precepts, (which is the philosopher’s part), he never useth; as having so clearly set before men’s eyes the ways and events of good and evil counsels, that the narration itself doth secretly instruct the reader, and more effectually than can possibly be done by precept.”

    ~from Thomas Hobbes’ introduction to his translation of Thucydides.

  • Jesse

    In other news, JR Smith turns the ball over late in a big game:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1dAikJfeLrw

    Guess LeBron wanted the pipe.

  • Sai

    @HanSolo
    “I think grades 1-12 should be condensed into 9 or 10 years with more separation into trades and academic pursuits. The trade people can graduate at 15 or 16 and be ready to start a job or apprentice further and the academically-inclined-and-capable kids can go onto university and graduate by 19 or 20. Those who realize later they want to switch tracks can do so.”

    +10
    They can also save money this way.
    (I’m 99% certain there are several countries that do this, but don’t quote me on it…)

    @Anacaona
    Email is 321sailorstars(AT)gmail(DOT)com

    @Bastiat Blogger
    Would it be acceptable for me to respond with
    A. “You take me out all the time. Let’s be reckless with MY money.”
    B. “Why don’t we do something simple, like cook at home, play ‘Super Mario’, and fuck?”

    @blogRot
    “The female crews had (and probably still does) a reputation of the sort of which there are very few terms I can retell in polite company, some of which were outright prostitutes.”

    I thought they got fired if things got out of hand like that within a submarine. I guess not. Ew.

    Remember everybody, gonorrhea does not discriminate.

  • http://bastiatblogger.blogspot.com Bastiat Blogger

    Sai, either of those responses would cause penis-tingles. Good show, young lady

    • http://www.hookingupsmart.com Susan Walsh

      Sai, either of those responses would cause penis-tingles.

      Haha! I have not heard that expression before. I suspect that just as for women, it’s not a tingle, more of a “pull.”

  • INTJ

    @ Morgasm

    Well the feminists support complete pro-choice, including sex-selective abortion, so what can be done about it?

  • http://www.4stargazer.wordpress.com Anacaona

    So glad you didn’t. I love it when people share their stories. You can’t make this stuff up!

    Chinese proverb time:”If you don’t want anyone to know, don’t do it”

  • Escoffier

    BB, the reason I think it’s important, apart from the fact that the book is among the best ever written and puzzling out the details is great fun, is that I think probably THE worst intellectual aspect of our times is the “teaching” that nothing is true, everything is relative, there is no right or wrong, it’s all preferences, follow your inner voice (i.e., your impulses and appetites), etc. This is both untrue and destructive yet it’s a very powerful idea that not only dominates today, it has roots in ancient times.

    These days it’s hard to find a prestigious thinker who will argue the opposing case, for truth, virtue, morality, natural right, the good, etc. (Sort of philosophic version of Superman’s triad). All the trendsetters are nihilists whether they want to admit it or not.

    They only recourse we have, as a civilization, is to look back to earlier thinkers who did not think this way. They can help us think our way out of the current morass. Our intellectuals laugh at them, or think they have been superseded (by themselves of course). However, a fresh look can demonstrate that these old wise men make more sense than the current “stars.”

    So, when I see that cynical teaching ascribed to a writer whom I know thought the opposite, who did believe in standards and permanance, I feel it’s important to speak up.

    “Other contemporary readers are reminded by Machiavelli’s teaching of Thucydides; they find in both authors the same ‘realism,’ i.e., the same denial of the power of the gods or of justice and the same sensetivity to harsh necessity and elusive chance. Yet Thucydides never calls in question the intrinsic superiority of nobility to baseness, a superiority that shines forth particularly when the noble is destroyed by the base. Therefore Thucydides’ History arouses a sadness which is never aroused by Machiavelli’s books. In Machiavelli, we find comedies, parodies and satires but nothing reminding of tragedy. One half of humanity remains outside of his thought.”

    This is important because Machiavelli is ultimately the source or origin of every modern error that is messing everything up.

    • http://www.hookingupsmart.com Susan Walsh

      This is important because Machiavelli is ultimately the source or origin of every modern error that is messing everything up.

      Talk about casting a long shadow…

  • Escoffier

    Indeed. I have recently written a lot about Old Nick, which I can send you if you like.

    • http://www.hookingupsmart.com Susan Walsh

      I have recently written a lot about Old Nick, which I can send you if you like.

      Please.

  • Morgasm

    1. “Well the feminists support complete pro-choice, including sex-selective abortion, so what can be done about it?”

    – Wrongo. Many feminists are anti sex-selective abortion.

    2. “In another recent thread there was a discussion on shit-testing tactics: a woman requests compliance to an unreasonable or otherwise subordinating request. ”

    – Care to give an example? I keep hearing about these “shit tests” but have yet to be given a concrete example of what it is.

    3. “Guess LeBron wanted the pipe.”

    – There’s a book by James L. King titled, “On the Down Low”.
    Read it.

    4. “BB, the reason I think it’s important, apart from the fact that the book is among the best ever written and puzzling out the details is great fun, is that I think probably THE worst intellectual aspect of our times is the “teaching” that nothing is true, everything is relative, there is no right or wrong, it’s all preferences, follow your inner voice (i.e., your impulses and appetites), etc. ”

    - I agree.

    5 . “Other contemporary readers are reminded by Machiavelli’s teaching of Thucydides; they find in both authors the same ‘realism,’ i.e., the same denial of the power of the gods… ”

    – As a Hindu I’m keeping the power of the gods and goddesses alive.