Women are the gatekeepers of sex for a simple reason. The “cost” of a sexual encounter is much higher for women than for men. There is the risk of being impregnated, possibly even by a bad or unworthy man. Women are far more likely to contract STDs than men are. And of course women are more likely to invest emotionally in a sexual encounter, even a casual one. (Note: It’s true that pregnancy can now be prevented or terminated, but our brains haven’t changed in thousands of years.)
The most important thing a woman can do in mating is manage these risks. She does this by filtering men based on cues that signal an intent to stick around after sex. By delaying sex long enough to assess a man’s intent, character, and reproductive quality she eliminates poor prospects and considers only men with the potential to be good fathers.
One reader suggested recently that the ideal mating strategy is the one with the highest reward, “if you can pull it off.” What he neglected to consider is that the highest reward often entails the highest “cost” or risk. A good strategy is one that thoroughly considers both costs and benefits, and has the highest “net” payout of all options.
Here’s an illustration of how this works:
Obviously, the best outcome is the top right quadrant, WIN THE LOTTERY. You believed him to be a good man who cared for you and you were right. Well done.
The next highest payout is the top left quadrant, DODGED A BULLET. You didn’t get a good guy out of it, but you did avoid having sex with a bad guy, and thereby prevented the destruction of your future. You have suffered no damage, and you can return to the pool of potential mates unscathed and try again.
The third best outcome is the bottom right quadrant, THE ONE THAT GOT AWAY. You missed out on a good guy because you judged him unfairly. This is an opportunity cost – you forfeited “what might have been.” But as in DODGED A BULLET, you may return to the dating pool and try again. It’s probable you’ll never know you missed out, but even if you do, there are many guys on the guy tree.
The worst outcome, which is unfortunately very common among young women, is the bottom left quadrant, QUEL DESASTRE. Either he gave an Oscar-worthy performance or you were in denial about his true intent. He made it through your filter, you had sex with him, and it blew up in your face. You will pay a price for this error in judgment. You may be pregnant, you may have contracted a disease, or most likely, you may get hurt and feel used. Every time you experience this you chip away at your own worth, and your hopes for the future. You may return to the dating pool, but you are not unscathed.
It is imperative that you stay out of the bottom left quadrant.
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The key is to have good discernment, then, because assessing the situation correctly has the top two outcomes. Bad judgment comes with the second worst and worst possible outcomes.
And because people may lie to obfuscate the assessment, the default position should be skepticism and careful filtering.
Incidentally, the very same thing applies to business/money deals. Don’t be scammed!
Good post.
One of the biggest aspects of true female empowerment is for women to realize that they are ultimately responsible for the men they decide to date, have sex with and marry, especially in the rich and safe environments of modern society where they won’t starve or be killed if they don’t have any male in their life.
Cads will not respond much to shaming so that’s a futile strategy.
Getting the large portion of women who don’t want to be with cads to be more vigilant is likely a more effective strategy. (The women who do want to be with cads or players like the JR Smith girl are a whole different story.)
In relationships or hookups with jerks and assholes, whenever women solely focus on how the man is a jerk (or all men) then it shifts the focus from their own accountability and agency and shifts them somewhat over into the category of powerless victims. But that is a futile strategy too. The women chose to sleep with them or marry them. No one held a gun to their heads to do it. Instead of just focusing on the ills of the internet Jacobs or the JR Smith ballers (and some negative attention to them is or may be warranted), more attention needs to be focused on the women choosing them and not sending them much sympathy (a little is alright) but rather asking the question:
“Girl, there are other men to choose from so why, of all people, did you choose him?”
If it takes longer to filter before putting out then that’s what women should do.
And I’m not talking about what men should do (we have lots of room to improve too). Just that women need to accept that empowerment means taking responsibility for discerning who they sleep with and when. Anything less and they are just acting like powerless victims.
This is precisely why, from the male perspective, Game is so important: we need to obfuscated the situation, concealing who are the cads and who are the dads, in order to filter out unworthy women for the dads among us.
If Becky wants a guy like Alex, a stand-up dude with high intelligence and good genes who will be a good dad, then she should certainly filter out anyone who doesn’t fit that criteria. By that same token, Alex needs to know if Becky is good future mother material . . . by seeing if she’ll sleep with any of his cad friends. If Becky decides a “bad boy” fling (or several) will tide her over until her prince charming shows up, the real Prince Charmings among us are going to avoid Becky like a plague rat. Oh, they might screw her — even future dads are horndogs — but her chances of becoming Mrs. Alex and having Alex’s high-quality babies is gone, barring a broken condom.
If women can tell the cads from the dads right off the bat, then there’s no filtering process for men. We need to know who the Sexually Liberated, Uninhibited Tarts are by their behavior . . . and keep our sperm away from their ova.
Because if Becky’s number is higher than her age, then Alex is going to want to be in the lower right hand quadrant . . . even if he has to do something caddish to make it happen. Good dads aren’t going to hand over their C-card to low-quality stock.
Good post.
Women are not managing their risks. They seem to just overlook them for short-term gratification. Lessons are not learned.
There was a time when I thought a 25 year old woman was old. Now, a 35 year old women is old and there are more of them than ever that never married and are currently in the dating pool. The time for stop making mistakes is long past. It is time to be proactive in making the right decisions.
They filtered poorly, but I’m more inclined to think it is intentional.
wow SWOT analysis B-school 101.
My my. What a two-dimensional world you paint for us. I recommend a third dimension to your grid – “Relationship Growth Potential”. There will be eight possible outcomes – try your analysis again and see what it reveals.
There lies the problem…men are really choosing when it comes to making a commitment, and most girls are unaware of that or some girls are.
This is also why prostitutes exists in the past and countries like India, Mexico, and Thailand. Being a virgin was the only way to get a husband, yet the men visits brothels because they were expected to have their sexual needs fulfilled. No self-respecting girl would have sex with a man other then her husband.
I was watching this documentary about prostitution in foreign countries, and many of the men that visits the brothels admits that these women are saving many women from rape. They themselves refuse to marry sexually experience women, because they can get a virgin.
I’m 100% fine with this because I have a habit of examining everyone through the blue quadrant by default (even in a platonic situation), then deciding very slowly who gets further consideration and a chance to be green-quadrant…
What’s a C-card though?
@Jacob Ian Stalk
Your charm is nothing short of magnetic. Are you available for birthday parties and bar mitzvahs?
I do agree that women are the gatekeeper of sex, and I acknowledge that I was responsible for my own past. I did it because he lead me to believe that we were to elope, and we were dating for 3 months. He was very respectful, had a nice job, and did give me the commitment that I demanded until I disqualified myself.
At the same time, had men looks at themselves and see if they are worthy of a restricted girl? I know that this blog has little to do with my 72 year old Uncle, but I also think he was a good example.
In order to get his c-card, she must be a 20-something women and that was why my 55 year old friend was too old to give his c-card too. (She wasn’t entirely hurt by this, and had already move on).
It also annoys me when men talks about a woman’s looks and judging her unworthy of commitment as she ages. Men always talks about how as they grow older, they got more options whereas women just grows old.
What is a c-card? It means commitment. Seriously, I look at my Uncle or men who tries to date 20-something or even teenagers because women near their age is too old. You are too old!!
Josie88 wrote:
I find your attempt at proof by anecdote a little suspect. The actions of one delusional elderly man, your horn-dog uncle, do not not prove the rule.
I don’t even think they are useful as an anecdote. By your own admission, a 55-year old women was interested in him. That’s not half plus seven by any means, but it’s still a substantial age gap. When men talk about increasing options as they age, they are principally looking at it from a statistical perspective. Literally, they can pick from a wider field just because of how the histogram of women as a function of age is shaped. If men want to date a women their age, they can. A man who wants to buy a woman’s youth generally has to pay for it by one means or another.
I know a handful of gals in relationships with (and children by) much older men, and they’re all happy. I STRONGLY suspect that this would be Terra OhMyGod-ica (is too a word) for the majority of women.
Totally agree with Susan. Discernment for both sexes is ABSOLUTELY key. If you can’t get your A-game and win the lottery, you can at least avoid having your years of your life ruined by a terrible relationship.
Truly a noble cause. You should start a charity for this. Make sure to file for your 501(c)(3) status!
@ Jacob Ian Stalk
I recommend a fourth dimension – “Inconsequentiality”. Too bad you’d be unable to think in four dimensions though.
I certainly have no problem with women dating and marrying much older men and finding happiness. To each and their own. So long as they were older then 18 or 21 when the courtship begins, whatever dude.
However, I do have a problem with adult men sniffing around around high schools or colleges for young girls after they sow their oats.
I do agree with Susan. Women should be more choosing. A man has every right to want a chaste woman as a wife and mother of his child. The problems lie when that man was neither chaste nor a person of character. Then again, this is a world of welfare moms, prostitutes and rich men in corporate offices with trophy wives.
I’ve dodged so many bullets, they should have cast me in The Matrix.
“The third best outcome is the bottom right quadrant, THE ONE THAT GOT AWAY. You missed out on a good guy because you judged him unfairly. This is an opportunity cost – you forfeited “what might have been.” But as in DODGED A BULLET, you may return to the dating pool and try again. It’s probable you’ll never know you missed out, but even if you do, there are many guys on the guy tree.”
Unless you set a pressure mine and don’t realize that you did it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naval_mine
LOL Sassy. But, you put yourself in the line of fire just a tad.
Delusional ancient uncle aside, good ol’ alpha Danny easily gets away with hitting the colleges – they’re legal after 17 in most US states. You may not like it, but if the women consent, it’s on them as much as him.
@INTJ
Sorry, I don’t understand. What does this mean?
LMAO!
Is Josie PJ?
@ Susan
Oh I see. This question. I apologize for making a personal attack, against your stated recent policy. I’ve just gotten tired of seeing Jacob Ian Stalk’s nonsensical posts and wanted to respond in kind to him.
It seems that women’s “accuracy of assessment” has gone to hell over the last few decades. Many of them seem to be stuck in the second row of the matrix – choosing “quel desastre” while “the one that got away” writes endless disgruntled comments on blogs like this one!
Eighty percent of women are in the bottom two categories. Pareto’s Law. Another example of Pareto’s Law is 80% of the women who think 80% of the men aren’t good-looking enough. That’s why more women are in the bottom right category than any other.
Wavevector and Bob, I’d like to see the stats that support your arguments.
Am I PJ? No…but I do think that there nothing shameful about rejecting an older or old man.
Honestly, I understand why older or old men being attracted to teenage and young women because of the evo-pshy thing.
What I am trying to said that older and old men shouldn’t feel entitled to a young women or teenager. They shouldn’t shamed them either for being gross out by their age.
This is why I agree with Susan, in that young girls should be taught to be aware of men thinks that they would be more cautions about dating men.
Women are the gatekeepers of sex for a simple reason. The “cost” of a sexual encounter is much higher for women than for men. There is the risk of being impregnated, possibly even by a bad or unworthy man. Women are far more likely to contract STDs than men are. And of course women are more likely to invest emotionally in a sexual encounter, even a casual one.
^^^VERY IMPORTANT POINTS! ^^^
” It’s true that pregnancy can now be prevented or terminated, but our brains haven’t changed in thousands of years.”
Pregnancy termination is not a simple thing. It can be both physically and emotionally traumatizing for women and many women would not consider terminating a pregnancy for these reasons as well as religious, ethical or other reasons.
And pregnancy cannot be prevented 100% from condoms or birth control pills. Even hysterectomies have been botched and an expected conception takes place.
SEX IS A HUGE RISK FOR A WOMAN!
“I do think that there nothing shameful about rejecting an older or old man.”
Who’s suggesting its shameful to do that? Nobody here I hope. On the contrary it is shameful to get with a man old enough to be your grandfather. Even father’s age is pushing it beyond civilized limits. Eww. Gross.
10 years up or down is ok. 15 years max. More than that its just …. shudders.
” Then again, this is a world of welfare moms, prostitutes and rich men in corporate offices with trophy wives.”
And rich men in corporate offices “slumming it” with welfare moms and prostitutes. Hell, some of those welfare moms are those rich mens’ baby mamas!
How hard is it to pick one assortive mate and stick with her life long? Stretch marks and all.
Thanks Kiwi.
Look, I am sorry for so many posts. I am just responding to some shaming that was inflicted upon me and my sister when we were teenagers by my 30-something sister.
She had a good time with men in their late 20s – 30s when she as a teenager, so she told so us to do the same. She also told us that we will grow old with wrinkle too, so stop judging.
So I want to said that I am sorry and hopes for the best for everyone. Now I am off to spring break. Have a nice week.
“This is precisely why, from the male perspective, Game is so important: we need to obfuscated the situation, concealing who are the cads and who are the dads, in order to filter out unworthy women for the dads among us.”
One way for women to figure out who is dad and who is cad is to become the gatekeeper of not only sex, but of emotional investment as well.
Let him take the first serious emotional steps such as introducing you to his parents and other demonstratable signs of seriousness. Parental introduction in itself may mean nothing, but if its one of, say, 5 different emotional commitment behaviours, then you can begin, just begin, to consider “ok, maybe this guy is serious about me after all”.
Don’t give way to wild displays of emotional attachment just yet. Continue to observe him with one cautious eye and one hopeful, loving eye.
“She had a good time with men in their late 20s – 30s when she as a teenager, so she told so us to do the same. She also told us that we will grow old with wrinkle too, so stop judging.”
I’m not an ageist proper, but every stage of life has its appropriate and corresponding behaviors. Uncles and aunties are meant to behave as such. It is within their age appropriate roles they will get the respect they deserve as elders from us young folk.
@Josie88
What part of the world do you live in, if you don’t mind me asking?
The older man, younger woman thing doesn’t seem such a common dynamic in North America.
@ SayWhaat,
How about the 40% of children that are now born outside marriage? That’s “quel desastre” material – especially for the children themselves.
“She had a good time with men in their late 20s – 30s when she as a teenager, so she told so us to do the same. She also told us that we will grow old with wrinkle too, so stop judging.”
Stop judging? Whatever for?
Seriously though, we will grow old with wrinkles too and we will do so in tandem and step with our mates of similar age. That way it won’t be so hard on us.
+several for HanSolo at #2 above, very well stated and important.
In relationships or hookups with jerks and assholes, whenever women solely focus on how the man is a jerk (or all men) then it shifts the focus from their own accountability and agency and shifts them somewhat over into the category of powerless victims.
The technical (== unnecessarily fancy) term here, I believe, is hypoagency, and you can turn up some interesting stuff by searching on the word. For example, girlwriteswhat has a thoughtful video essay on female hypoagency, starting with the counterintuitive involvement of feminism but ultimately going back to an evo-psych explanation — which I don’t personally agree with but was interesting to hear — and touching on such topics as women who regularly videogame online along the way. Anyway, you seem like the type to appreciate that there may be deeper explanations for this kind of behavior, rather than simply disrespecting it.
wavevector at 24: It seems that women’s “accuracy of assessment” has gone to hell over the last few decades.
Is it fair to say, that this is the main reason HUS even exists, on this scale?
@Esau
I’ll look it up.
Yes, feminism ironically creates some areas of female hypoagency by excessively blaming the patriarchy (not that some criticism wasn’t/isn’t warranted) for all of the ills that women face.
Where is the female quality control post?
Abbot, you do realize that this is a website for advice to women, right?
“Abbot, you do realize that this is a website for advice to women, right?”
That’s why he’s here.
This is a really good post. I think that a lot of women tend to be unaware of this kind of thing, some of them willfully. I know several women who’ve been unchoosy and have ended up badly or less-than-desirably, and I also know several who’ve been very careful and have ended up well. I myself have never dated before my current boyfriend, and we aren’t being sexual (we kiss and get a bit handsy, but the clothes stay on.) I told him upfront that I was intending to wait sex till marriage, and he didn’t complain. I think that if more women would stay out of men’s beds until they had reason for confidence that this was serious, a lot of bad choices would be avoided, because sex muddies things with all the hormones and feelings.
Side note: with the talk about older men above, I’d like to put my two cents in and say that I will generally not consider a man more than two or three years older than I as a viable option (I am 25), both because I feel that a man with N>2 has been with too many women for my taste (and the older someone is, the higher their N tends to be), and because from what I’ve seen, the older a man gets and stays single, the more bitter he gets and the more likely he is to have issues with women that he might take out on me. My boyfriend is 3 1/2 years younger than I am.
“Side note: with the talk about older men above, I’d like to put my two cents in and say that I will generally not consider a man more than two or three years older than I as a viable option (I am 25), both because I feel that a man with N>2 has been with too many women for my taste (and the older someone is, the higher their N tends to be), and because from what I’ve seen, the older a man gets and stays single, the more bitter he gets and the more likely he is to have issues with women that he might take out on me. ”
Bingo!
Also autism in children has been linked to older fathers.
Its best for humans to get all their breeding done by 36.
Mr. Nervous Toes,
To be fair, I’ve seen what Josie was talking about on March 14, 2013 at 6:45 pm on websites like Roissy’s, but would like to think that the guys on that site don’t represent a large number of men.
There lies the problem…men are really choosing when it comes to making a commitment, and most girls are unaware of that or some girls are.
Josie, right. But the problem is some women don’t want to be aware. See the last thread. Some of us guys tried to discuss something that could play a part in a guy making a commitment, and we got beat over the head with it.
Reading these comments, I know why women can’t find decent men. Start at half plus 7 for dating and run it out to 20 years older.
38, and I ATTRACT (ie: they ping off me) 22-27 daily. Over 27 or single mom, “very nice to meet you”. Those girls can’t bond with a man. Don’t blame me, Im just exposing the dark soul of 2013 American society.
“Reading these comments, I know why women can’t find decent men. Start at half plus 7 for dating and run it out to 20 years older. ”
The older some get the less decent some become. Could because of bitterness as Aimee mentioned above. Could be because of outdated ideas. Who knows? What we do know is that if a woman wants to have healthy children then she needs to mate with a man under 40 because older fathers are linked to autism in children.
that study only applied to older fathers with the mother over 35.
Sorry.
“To be fair, I’ve seen what Josie was talking about on March 14, 2013 at 6:45 pm on websites like Roissy’s”
So many myths to bust, so little time.
The carousel does not exist;
http://aaronsleazy.blogspot.ca/2013/03/manosphere-myths-cock-carousel.html
No kid wants an old dad. Its not cool.
PSA:
End bullying by having kids young so the other kids don’t have to pick on him/her.
Lets just said that my parents and older sisters grew up in a country where it was normal for a young girl of 16 to be consider a woman and is now ready for marriage. One gets married young because one dies young. A man that lives to an old age is consider wise.
My parents and older sisters certainly thinks that a 16 year old “woman” should marry an older man that can provide for her and is already financially accomplished, instead of a younger man with an unstable future.
My parents may had chosen to immigrate to the United States, but they still held on to their conservative, traditional values. My older sister was raised in that foreign country. she came with them when she was a teenager and got marry fairly young.
Certainly that 40-something man that was hitting on my then 16 year old sister also shared the same mindset. To them, it is perfectly normal. However, my sister and I grew up in the USA and had been “corrupted” by western ideologies. So our disgust at dating 30 – 40 something is more of a westernized, modern concept.
If my parents and older sisters knew that my younger sister and I are no longer virgins, they should be heartbroken. Both of us are already consider old maids because I am in my twenties and the other is 20.
@ Abbot
Cause males already know how to do quality control. And yes, quality control potentially includes filtering out women with alphas in their past.
@ Aimee
^^ lol , so cute! ^^
I don’t make the rules, I just exploit them for my maximum benefit. FYI, shaming only works on the dregs and other girls, but it was a spectacular attempt. I especially like how you gently shifted your personal opinion on todays reality about how young women view and date older men into a thinly veiled cautionary tale on bullying.
lemme guess. 30+, single, and are mad as hell but devote untold hours convincing yourself and others how happy you are. Right? If only men were not so darned intractable huh? The failure of women to life split thread is >>>>>>that way.
” And yes, quality control potentially includes filtering out women with alphas in their past.”
A funny and pertinent comment from that site;
JohnnyMarch 12, 2013 at 6:02 AM
What I always love about these replies is that they are NEVER about their own experiences, and always about someone they have heard of, or a friend of a friend, or the mythical “alpha male”.
How many guys can tolerate an 18 year old girl for long enough to have sex with her? I certainly can’t. Then this point “one man can dominate the sex lives of 5 women” – dude seriously, have you ever even had sex, forget “dominating the sex lives of 5 women”? I find the amount of effort it takes to “dominate” the sex life of one girl tiring, forget dominating 5 women! At two chicks, it seriously starts to affect all other areas of my life.
Next time, please go out, think for yourself and reflect on your own experiences. It will do you a world of good!
_______________________________
So how many women have you personally filtered out with “alphas in their pasts”, INTJ?
@Kiwi / PJ
Peejcon alert…ease off a little sweetie
I know that you miss my elder(ly) guidance on a day to day basis, but I’ll always be there for you in spirit. Casting my paternalistic, caring eye over you from afar (in years and km) regretting our love that can never be.
Peace baby, take it easy
Shut up, PJ.
@Ana
Did you like the Wang movie?
Moff nighty night.
Play nicely PJ, it’ll save making up yet another identity… <3
Did you like the Wang movie?
Couldn’t get it in Netflix
Heh, even a broken clock is right twice a day.
An ironic waste of time: Priding oneself on filtering out women (either real or imagined) who’ve probably already filtered you out…
@Ana
Insomnia is on going.
Shame, it’s a good film if you watch it without any preconceptions ie spoilers.
Arrive derci (hope that’s right, io non doa da Italiano)
Or
Cheers me dears
If in doubt, don’t put out!
“If in doubt, don’t put out!”
Feeling antsy? Keep it in your pantsy.
And if you’re going to be really careful with your sex, try to be really nice, genuine and friendly when you explain to your prospective significant other that you’re just trying to be careful and only have sex with guys who are serious about the relationship.
If he’s worth anything he should back off completely and show total understanding, and hopefully show plenty of non-sexual affection to show that he respects and appreciates your desire to vet carefully.
In other words, try to patch the leaks between the boxes “Win The Lottery” and “The One That Got Away.”
Actually I am in my twenties and despite respecting my uncle, I live in pleasure when he fails to get one of my 20-something friends.
Ha….the best thing my then teenage sister did was to reject that 40 year old man. The shock on his face was priceless and a joy to the world when she pick her boyfriend over him.
I wouldn’t be surprise if you some creepy old guy that is hitting on young girls.
Don’t be insulting. I’m a creepy young guy hitting on young girls.
If she’s a creep, with her don’t sleep.
I may be consider an old maid in my twenties by men in my culture, but I am certainly happy that my boyfriend and I are in the same age bracket.
No way will I date some 40 year man that my sister tries to shame me into dating.
It feels so good to reject them for being too old. It feels even better when my parents, sisters, and other relatives expressed anger for dating a young guy of a different race. The greatest joy in life while one is yong is rejecting an old man for being old!!!!
“If she’s a creep, with her don’t sleep.”
Anyone following the Jodi Arias trial on HLN? I’m surprised the Manosphere isn’t all over this one. And they are using the “creep” word – in reference to HER. Dr. Drew said many times, “this is what will creep out guys” and “for men the creepy thing about her is….”
What? Am I the person that people are referring to as a creeper?
Just answering a question. Honestly, my younger sister and I are more open minded when it comes to dating. Each to their own. If an old man wants to be with a young woman, go for it but don’t demand that she submit to your “charms” and no old man is entitled to a young woman.
My parents, sisters, and men from my culture disapprove of both of us for dating young guys of different race. Will, we rather pick a young beta guy of a different race than an old man of the same culture.
Oh, and even if we are consider old maids we are still being hit on by 40-something men of our culture because they still want a young bride. This is why our sister continues to shame us for rejecting them.
@HanSolo,
I’m loving all those catch phrases (Pj’s too)! They should make posters with those and display them in nurseries in high schools or something.
I’ve always applied the “When in doubt, don’t put out”, maybe too well!
WRT catch phrases, they look like they’d come out of a Dr Seuss tale or Alice In Wonderland!
“My parents, sisters, and men from my culture disapprove of both of us for dating young guys of different race. Will, we rather pick a young beta guy of a different race than an old man of the same culture.”
Me too. I’m a culturephile anyway and love traveling to new places, meeting new people, and learning new things, and of course eating new food. Dating men from different backgrounds is a great way to learn about our world’s various cultures, (and eat a lot, LOL).
When in heat (Sassy), bid a hasty retreat!
So… when do we start testing discriminators to classify the quality of new cases? I suggest Support Vector Machines to circumvent the curse of dimensionality and possible non linear relationships between the variables (which will need to be found as well, preferably eliminating the redundant ones to limit computational complexity using Principal Component Analysis).
It’ll allow probability scores as well to deal with borderline cases.
True that!
Support for that claim please?
“Women are the gatekeepers of sex for a simple reason. The “cost” of a sexual encounter is much higher for women than for men. There is the risk of being impregnated, possibly even by a bad or unworthy man. Women are far more likely to contract STDs than men are. And of course women are more likely to invest emotionally in a sexual encounter, even a casual one. (Note: It’s true that pregnancy can now be prevented or terminated, but our brains haven’t changed in thousands of years.)”
Also, women are more likely to not orgasm or even be injured from bad sex compared to men.
Worse, women are more likely to be raped by their date.
@Susan
Though I realize you meant your ideogram to display the LTR vs. STR choices it could just as easily be applied to any male trait.
I would like to speak of this bitterness and age gap thing for a moment.
As a single man, I’m in my early forties, live on my own and never been married. Part of it had to do with economics and personal circumstances, but I don’t want to focus on that, or make excuses.
Bitterness is a choice one makes after life experiences. You are either happy and accepting or regretful. Many Men in my age group tend to lose connections with their friendships with other men. Unlike women, the social circle tends to become smaller. Men generally communicate less than women do. When this happens, one or two things occur.
They either seek out Women to fill this void, or they withdraw.
This becomes more difficult as one gets older because people generally have certain prejudices to age groups. Like a woman said in an early post, they are afraid that Older men have issues with Women and baggage that they don’t want to deal with.
Well, that goes both ways.
As I have aged, I have learned Happiness is a choice and state of mind.
Often when I run into Men my age, I can see the hardship and stress in them from raising children and being married. Their hair often is greyer, and they are working more.
I made a promise to myself that no matter how I age, I will always keep my intention on being happy, regardless if I am in a relationship or not.
In my mind, I am eternally young, feel like 20, and can rock harder than some of the youngsters now. Some 20 year olds act like cranky old men if you can believe it.
So yeah, I may not be for every age, but I am not bitter.
I don’t regret anything, because I have lived, and still alive.
Good stuff by Hansolo.
Angelguy, I know where you’re coming from. I keep meeting men my age that look 15 – 20 years older than me. Terrifying what a wife, 2 kids & a mortgage can do for your sex appeal.
Plain Jane’s constant trolling creates an ugly climate of distrust & expectations of dishonesty. She’s been doing it for years & is never going to change. Do everything you can to ban her for good. Failing that, find her address & hunt her down with a cattle bolt gun.
@Byron
I am not saying that being married is a bad thing necessarily, but it does have an impact on ones self, if the marriage and family is not properly handled.
I think aging is difficult for either sex btw. Men and Women go through many changes, not just physically, but psychologically too.
Changing one’s mindset can be more difficult than the body, sometimes.
AG,
well yes, & as you say, men simply do not cultivate the network of friends & support that women do, especially after marriage. Which is why such a huge number of many men kill themselves after divorce – they have invested themselves so heavily in that life that they have literally nothing left once it is over.
Uh-huh. Tell that to the guy I knew who got pissed when the girl he was fucking wouldn’t leave her boyfriend from him. The same girl who took anger management classes and had a tattoo on her punani.
She was hot though. If that’s what you mean by “quality”, go right ahead.
“well yes, & as you say, men simply do not cultivate the network of friends & support that women do, especially after marriage. Which is why such a huge number of many men kill themselves after divorce – they have invested themselves so heavily in that life that they have literally nothing left once it is over.”
@Byron
Exactly. It is very devestating when this happens. I think it is important to have friends. There is only so much one’s spouse can do for you.
Unfortunately, most men don’t want to admit this.
While Women have no trouble calling up theirs, and getting together.
I have a few guy friends that I speak with, so I know.
Their wives seem to like me, so it is all good.
http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/333885/girls-not-coming-age-betsy-woodruff?pg=2
Just published some thoughts on the last episode of “Girls” here:
http://triggeralert.blogspot.co.uk/2013/03/adam.html
@Byron
I love your post on the recent episode of Girls. I hadn’t gotten quite that far in understanding Adam, but was definitely on the same wavelength. I find that I have more empathy for Adam – by far – than any other character on the show. Adam Driver is brilliant at conveying his isolation, aggression and vulnerability all at the same time.
FTR, any notion of that scene being rape is 100% bogus.
Oh good, that’s really nice to hear, Susan.
“But Dunham seems to actually believe they should. Dunham makes tons of money, and I’m quite confident she can afford to pay for her own birth control.”
And for everyone else just make the guy buy condoms. Shit, there’s many places where he can even get them for free.
@Byron
Good post. The vulnerability of Adam wondering whether he is good enough to be accepted as his true self is something many men struggle with and often mask for their whole life because most women don’t want to see a man’s true vulnerability, they only want to see a small portion of it like a dab of colored paint on strong and steadfast steel. Most men bridle their dark urges, out of love or out of necessity, rarely if ever thanked, because that is what is expected and the expected can’t be truly appreciated.
@Jacob Ian Stalk
I’d be intersted in seeing that third dimension you’d want attached to Susan’s chart. If you are intersted in developing those ideas, I think you should share them with the rest of us.
@Byron
I liked the part of your analysis in which you notice that Adam still stays within Natalia’s stated rules while pushing the limits. I do understand however the “gray rape” comments you are seeing on the net. What happens on the show IS mostly consensual. Natalia could just have easily walked out when Adam told her to crawl to the bedroom. It was obvious then that things were going to get weird from there on. Adam’s ejacualtion on her chest after being told not to was not consensual, but it’s not rape either. It was, because of that particular context, degrading. That’s what people are reacting to.
Han, I think you are right in saying that Adam was seeking validation for the darker side of his nature and of his sexuality. Natalia unintentionally triggered that need by criticizing his laughing at toilet humor and living in a dump. Hannah, in contrast, had a gross and earthy nature of her own and a desire to explore the dark side for the sake of her art. The same act with Hannah has a sense of mutuality that would not offend some of those commenters who found the scene rape-y. Hannah and Adam work have interlocking craziness. This is why they can’t forget each other despite the fact that neither is a 10.
What writing! Now tell me haters that my girl Lena isn’t brilliant!!
@J
I missed that – did she say no? I think I need to watch the episode again. I didn’t see Charlie flip on a webcam either.
In contrat to Byron’s comment:
Plain Jane’s constant trolling creates an
uglyamusing climate ofdistrustgiggles & expectations ofdishonestybelly laughs. She’s been doing it for years & is never going to change. Do everything you canto ban her for goodencourage more of her bullshit, especially those bigoted remarks about believers in the Abrahamic faiths. I’m feeling blue and enjoy a good laugh.Every blog needs a troll
J: Adam’s ejacualtion on her chest after being told not to was not consensual, but it’s not rape either.
SW:I missed that – did she say no?
J: I believe so.
SW: I think I need to watch the episode again. I didn’t see Charlie flip on a webcam either.
J: I missed the webcam, but I heard Marnie object to being seen. I thought she meant by the people at the party.
” Natalia unintentionally triggered that need by criticizing his laughing at toilet humor and living in a dump. Hannah, in contrast, had a gross and earthy nature of her own and a desire to explore the dark side for the sake of her art. The same act with Hannah has a sense of mutuality that would not offend some of those commenters who found the scene rape-y. Hannah and Adam work have interlocking craziness. This is why they can’t forget each other despite the fact that neither is a 10.”
Absodiddly.
“What writing!”
Yep, I am truly astounded by her handling of male characters in particular. I never read depictions of men by female writers that think & talk like actual men. It’s almost unprecedented.
Yes she did, but someone here said Charlie reached over and turned on a camera without her knowing!
J, re:PJ,
Seriously, cattle bolt gun. It would be like inventing that time machine & going back to kill Hitler: a better world for everyone.
“J: Adam’s ejacualtion on her chest after being told not to was not consensual, but it’s not rape either.
SW:I missed that – did she say no?
J: I believe so.”
My recollection is she said ‘not on my dress’.
Yeah, she has indeed created some really interesting, multi-dimensional male characters. She must be a very perceptive and compassionate young woman IRL.
I also love Ray’s vulnerability and inability to find himself at 33 contrasted with Charlie’s finally getting moving professionally and socially.
@Byron
Seriously, cattle bolt gun. It would be like inventing that time machine & going back to kill Hitler: a better world for everyone.
Meh. Trolls are like the hydra’s heads. Cut ‘em off, and they just grow back.
My recollection is she said ‘not on my dress’.
I thought I heard “not on my breasts.”
someone here said Charlie reached over and turned on a camera without her knowing!
Maybe. I need to rewatch it. That would be a remarkably shitty thing to do.
I thought I heard “not on my breasts.”
No, its ‘not on my dress’, that’s why she pulls her dress down herself. I just went back & checked.
‘Not on my breasts!’ would be a pretty unusual thing to shriek out during sex, when you think about it.
I recall he fiddled with the computer when he pulled her into the room, and it struck me as slightly odd. It didn’t occur to me that he turned on a webcam, though. I guess we’ll find out.
‘Not on my breasts!’ would be a pretty unusual thing to shriek out during sex, when you think about it.
I thought she glad he wasn’t ejaculating in her, but didn’t want him to ejaculate ON her or her clothes–as in “Not on my breasts! Go get a towel.”
I really have to re-watch it now.
Seriously, cattle bolt gun. It would be like inventing that time machine & going back to kill Hitler: a better world for everyone.
PJ? NOPE EVER!
THAT was amusing!
Well, in that case he’s in the clear!
@Byron, @J
I really didn’t like Natalia’s “rules” – or the way she laid them out for Adam to obey. I was surprised he said, “I like it that you’re clear with me.” It reminded me a bit of when he told Hannah (in the eyebrow episode) that he liked it when she talked to him so assertively. He clearly likes to dominate sexually, but wants some pushback too. Mostly I felt that Adam was so uncomfortable in that relationship – going off the wagon to show this “out of his league” girl a good time. She’s no good for him.
*chimes in*
I was the person who made the observation about Charlie turning on the webcam before he & Marnie had sex on his desk. Maybe I was mistaken, but why else would he need to do something with his computer at that precise moment in time?
Either way, that along with the Natalia/Adam scene struck me as pretty awful. Susan knows I am an Adam Driver aficianado from way back. But couldn’t he see that the degrading stuff he was asking of her (i.e. crawling on all fours through the filth of his apartment, getting woodchips, dirt and goodness knows what else embedded in her palms and knees)– it clearly made her uncomfortable.
Afterwards, she kept saying, I really didn’t like that. It seemed that the whole encounter was, at some level, Adam trying to get her to pull the plug on their relationship. Look at the dialogue– in the middle of sex he keeps asking, Do you like me? Do you like my apartment? Etc. Then afterwards, when he asked, So are you done with me now? it could almost be argued he was saying it in relief.
Adam has entered a world of engagement parties and guys who say, Too bad we’re missing the game for this, huh? The Hannah encounter, the alcohol, the horrid sex– these are all terrible dominoes he is trying to get to spill to knock the whole thing down.
This is how Adam will discover his SMV, trying high and low and seeing where he fits. I think Adam and Hannah are the same person. Both are consumed and self-involved but in different ways. Adam thinks too much about how to deal with his emotions and doesn’t see other people’s emotions. Hannah thinks too much about her self and her art but does not consider how it affects other people. Add to that the lack of boundaries and opportunistic behavior…
It will be very interesting if Dunham intends Hannah & Adam getting back together – the feminists who’ve put forth the interpretation of Adam as a ‘rapist’ will really have their heads messed with if he becomes the happy love interest once again…
@J
“someone here said Charlie reached over and turned on a camera without her knowing!
Maybe. I need to rewatch it. That would be a remarkably shitty thing to do.”
==
Hi J, that was me.
I think Charlie, like possibly some commenters, is *so* incredibly emotionally invested in Marnie that he believes that somehow revenge will purify her from his system. (Not true, but the revenge-fantasies that power the ‘Sphere could fuel a small planet, if they could only be channeled.)
Look: His whole success is due to an app that he based off of her. If he is a score-keeping kind (and how could he not be, when his app charges him $10 every time he places a call to Marnie?) he probably feels that the score must be evened. First for season 1 (their OTHER awful sex scene), then for the perceived betrayal by the hipster Ewok, he self-loathing Booth Jonathan.
In the moment, I’d bet he isn’t thinking, This is a horrible thing to do. He is thinking, Charlie 1, Marnie 0, FINALLY.
@Byron
“the feminists who’ve put forth the interpretation of Adam as a ‘rapist’ will really have their heads messed with if he becomes the happy love interest once again…”
===
Byron, I too am interested in seeing the direction things go. Clearly, what’s happening between Adam and Hannah isn’t over. From my POV, I don’t see this show having a “happy” love interest– ever!
Even Shosh and Ray, for example. When they declare their love for each other in the subway, it is only after Ray acknowledges homelessness and self-perceived loserdom. They’ve been together 6-8 weeks at that point and this is his longest lasting relationship EVER.
Or Jessa & Thomas-John: The smugness goeth before the fall. Just when Jessa thought she had it all figured out and was smugly smugging to Hannah about how real love is “supposed to be”… that was when everything hit the fan.
This show has not, will not and will never have a happy love interest. (Although I would love to be proved wrong.)
Oh absolutely Jackie, but it’s possible there’ll be a gentle lull in the storm for awhile. I’d like that.
I think the Charlie/Marnie relationship is being used mainly to talk about the shifting of the balance of power in a relationship: so far Charlie has been used to show what Marnie took for granted & threw away – now he’s thriving & she’s floundering, even though in any other show she’d be the most stereotypically gorgeous ‘golden girl’ that everyone likes & goes out of their way to help.
Charlie feels both obsessive desire & – post Booth Jonathan – utter revulsion for her: he can’t help but WANT her, but he doesn’t LIKE her anymore. She’s dead to him, but he still wants to fuck her. Not a good place to be in.
That scene was awful. The way that horrid bride referred to Natalia as having blown her cousin! So crass.
@Byron
Well, the coming attractions showed Adam taking a call from Hannah in the finale. Sadly, I think his having a gf rekindled her interest. She’s a shallow one.
But not as shallow as Marnie.
I think Adam felt a bit humiliated when he tells her that it’s like a car that you can drive anywhere and she says he needs help to clean up his place. That possibly struck right to the heart of his male need to be respected. He then asks if it changes the way she feels and she says no and then he tells her to get on all fours. He perhaps feels the need to now humiliate her and bring her down (or into) his level and world.
Though I haven’t demanded a woman get on all fours and crawl, there have been moments in life where I have opened up to a woman, and you’re literally putting some real, vulnerable part of your soul in her hands. In cases where she understood and respected me then it developed an incredible sense of loyalty and trust in me for her. In cases where she didn’t understand or seemed repulsed then it led to a complete emotional numbness and shutdown on my part and it didn’t matter if she was hot, I had no desire to bond with her. I still found such women physically attractive but couldn’t bond with them anymore because I felt rejected for who I was and that a deep connection was no longer an option.
I like to see the portrayal of his emotions (and obviously my interpretation is just that and was colored by my lens and past experiences) and how it can be very crippling (or enraging) for a man to feel humiliated or disrespected.
One criticism is simply that she seems so out of his league (she seems like an 8 or 9 and he’s maybe a 5 in SMV) that it happening in real life seems highly unlikely, though not impossible. But that doesn’t take away from the merit of portraying his feeling disrespected or not good enough and the need to humiliate and dominate her (my interpretation and not saying it is THE true interpretation).
Definitely. I turned to my husband and said, “Whoa! Revenge f*cking.” I like how in the scenes at his office, Charlie is calling Marnie out on her BS, asking whether she is there to lend support or seek it, etc. He’s not over his oneitis – no way – but he’s finally figured out that it made him unattractive to her. He deserves better. But not that wench Audrey!
The way that horrid bride referred to Natalia as having blown her cousin!
I’d kind of forgotten about that – there were a number of subtle moments that led up to the Adam/Natalie sex scene, that was one of them.
@J
“I also love Ray’s vulnerability and inability to find himself at 33 contrasted with Charlie’s finally getting moving professionally and socially.”
===
Sorry to talk your ear off with “Girls,” J, but I was thinking about this, too.
Actually, I was thinking when Shosh brought up the Trump seminar to Ray and he was inwardly rolling his eyes at her. (I would be, too, but for different reasons. That seems like a super scam!) I can’t see him ever striving or trying or risking. Ray is, to my eyes, not nearly as resilient as Hannah or the rest. He is going to be manager at Grumpy’s *forever*.
While he was able to give advice to Marnie about following her dream (and maybe this is just me, but I almost sensed something between them), it was advice you knew he’d never take for himself.
(Also, I say this because they have been dropping some pretty heavy anvils about the unsuitability between him and Shosh.)
Anyway, I’d actually be interested to know more about his background and how it relates to resiliency (or lack thereof). What do you think?
Girls has a dilemma, because the guys are so well drawn and the actors who play them have become real favorites. Also, the viewership is actually more male than female, or at least it was in Season 1. That means Adam and Ray are really important to the series, but if they’re not dating anyone, why have them around? It’s a bit of a dilemma for LD, I think.
Personally, I was glad to see the end of Elijah, but I read he’s coming back. The sex scene with Marnie just put me over the edge.
In cases where she didn’t understand or seemed repulsed then it led to a complete emotional numbness and shutdown on my part and it didn’t matter if she was hot, I had no desire to bond with her. I still found such women physically attractive but couldn’t bond with them anymore because I felt rejected for who I was and that a deep connection was no longer an option.
Yup, been there done that.
@Susan (118)
Y’know, seeing the transformation of Charlie reminded me of something.
I remember reading about a very successful, well-respected and hot guy whose personal history was that of a former nerd who got cheated upon by the first woman he ever loved. It has crushed his heart. Underneath all the shining success was someone with wounds just like anyone else– and maybe worse, since they had driven him to revenge-success.
Remember Shosh’s comment to Charlie, how super-hot he was now? If you were meeting him for the first time now, would you have believed the pathetic dynamic between him & Marnie last year? I think that sometimes we want to air-brush our perceptions of people, as much as we do their appearance. But even the hottest person on Earth around is carrying baggage, which I find quite humanizing.
Yes, that sculpture was a key part of who Adam is, and she just made a face – she didn’t act the least bit interested in what is important to him. His place is really gross, but so what – she has no right to pass judgment.
I wonder if that’s why Adam reduced her to an object in the way that he did. Clearly the sex he “had” (by himself) had zero emotional component. She may have turned that off in him completely.
Yes, I felt that her remark when she first saw him, “Oh, I LOVE my mother!” was not at all plausible. He’s grown on me, he’s cute when he laughs, and he’s got great hair. But her thinking he’s hot is a stretch.
She seems very limited and disengaged in general – I figured it was because she grew up with an alcoholic mother.
the viewership is actually more male than female
I did not know that, that makes it even more unique.
I think many girls don’t like it because it’s too real – it doesn’t allow them to hang on to the make-believe the way Sex & The City or Ally McBeal did.
It wasn’t until the nude ping pong episode that I learned Ray is just the manager. I thought he was the owner of Grumpy’s.
I love his character, he’s funny, and I think he’s got a big heart. But he has clearly got issues, and he is NOT the boy for Shoshanna. Actually, that’s the issue. He’s too boyish for 33. That’s why she wants him to go to a college party. She thinks he fits right in.
@Byron
“Charlie feels both obsessive desire & – post Booth Jonathan – utter revulsion for her: he can’t help but WANT her, but he doesn’t LIKE her anymore. She’s dead to him, but he still wants to fuck her. Not a good place to be in.”
===
Agreed! The interesting thing would be if he actually decides to take the better path and cut her out of his life for good. Someone *finally* learns a lesson and makes a positive choice! Otherwise, they will continue this kind of traumatic bonding, where they are kind of sealing themselves to one another in a hate-pact.
I wonder if that’s why Adam reduced her to an object in the way that he did. Clearly the sex he “had” (by himself) had zero emotional component. She may have turned that off in him completely.
That’s probably it.
I loved Ray in Season 1; it seemed he was the only person realistic in that show. I think he figured that those kids will never “settle”, even if they have to suck their parents dry to achieve their dreams. I remember he told Hannah that instead of complaining about her parents cutting her off, she should work at McDonald’s to pay the bills. It’s fine because, in all groups of friends, there is always one that is “too” grounded.
“Yes, that sculpture was a key part of who Adam is, and she just made a face – she didn’t act the least bit interested in what is important to him. His place is really gross, but so what – she has no right to pass judgment.”
==
Yes! He is pretty much letting her into his inner sanctum:
When he shows her the sculpture, the mess, the carpentry he is saying, This is me, who I really am beyond the nice guy your mother find adorable. All the clues he has been dropping– not liking romantic comedies, beyond “wishing the best” for Sandra Bullock (
) , his grossout (to her) humor– she has been missing right and left.
And now he is finally showing her, This is me. *That* is why he asks her if she likes his apartment during sex.
Also, maybe Adam has blinded me with his weirdness and strange compassion, but his face looks like a Modigliani portrait to me, I think! He is not handsome, but he is *compelling* at some undefinable level. When they were together in a frame, I thought they made a really nice-looking couple.
It’s so true. The idea that good-looking men don’t get cheated on, or that pretty girls can easily find love – none of it is true. I’ve known beautiful women who were admired but never loved. I’ve known very handsome men who are painfully unsure of themselves – not their looks, but some other aspect they wish was different.
It’s easy to think that life would be so much better if I could only get x, or achieve y. And yet research shows that those things make us happy only briefly. Then we return to a baseline of contentment, whether it be high or low, that we were at before.
Charlie’s revenge won’t make him happy, but I can’t say I wish he was still the old Charlie. I like the way he is exorcising his demons, and he’s not doing anything Marnie doesn’t deserve and isn’t asking for.
@Byron
I do think men appreciate the fairness and honesty in Girls, but there was also some speculation that it did well with men initially because it came on right after Game of Thrones. That’s not the case for Season 2, so I’d be interested to know the breakdown.
@Jackie
That’s so funny you mention Modigliani. I defended that kid Nathan Harden using that description. There is a certain something that Adam Driver has – no question. Interesting that he was a Marine!
That line about Sandra Bullock was hilarious. The writing really is brilliant.
Oh, and the way Adam called Hannah “Kid.” I can’t help but wish for a reunion. I agree with you though – this is not a show for happy endings.
Also, interesting how Marnie massively disrespected Charlie before (and Charlie was acting way too needy and was cringe-inducing). Not sure how the show will go but in real life he likely wouldn’t be able to overcome that ever. Maybe if Marnie massively changes and makes amends but even then that memory will always be with Charlie.
Women seem to miss an obvious point: men are in the market for “good” women as much as women are in the market for a “good” man. This was conveniently “overlooked” in the article. I have said it dozens of times but it is, obviously, not sinking in: if you want a quality man then you need to be a quality woman. A quality woman worries about how she can please her man (as he does her), not about simply what she can extract from him.
Most American-born women miss this simple (but very, very important) concept to thier own detriment. You women must remember that American men are desired on a planetary basis because we can offer women a very high standard of living (by global standards). You are competing for the affections of American men on a global scale against women from very poor backgrounds, who have enormous incentive to marry one of us.
If you want to remain single and childless, follow the advice in this column. If you want a quality man who is “daddy and husband” material, become a quality woman who is “mommy and wife” material. It is truly that simple.
@VeriSeeker
Yes, women need to be good to attract good men for husbands but you’re missing the point. Part of being a good woman is being able to discern between the men that just want to have sex with her and those that are good and want to marry her.
Being discerning and wise is a huge part of being a good woman. So, your attack on this article is misguided.
But why are you ignoring the other posts on how a woman should be a good woman and emotionally bond with her man and treat him well. The 25 ways to get a boyfriend post is a prime example.
Susan has often said that there are too many entitled and narcissistic women in the US so I just don’t get why you’re shouting at the choir.
I personally think that too many women in the US are too masculine, too bitchy and too unpleasant. There are also a lot of good ones. In spite of my arguments with them at times, I think most of the female commenters on here are making anywhere from a reasonable to an outright great effort in treating men well.
So, in most ways I agree with you. I just don’t agree that HUS isn’t telling women to be good women. I think it is.
@VeriSeeker
And I do know how latinas are, at least. I lived in Mexico, Brazil, Chile, Peru and Costa Rica and between there and the US have had several latina gf’s. I do like that many of them are educated and have careers yet are still romantic and feminine.
So, basically I just think you’re off-base for coming here and attacking HUS for not trying to help women be good women. That just doesn’t agree with the plain and simple facts.
@Kiwi,
thanks…there is nothing wrong with dating men your age. Have fun with your culture learning.
I probably gave the wrong impression here or had been falsely accused of being PJ, when I am not.
My sister and I are doing what Susan is telling us to do. Dating young beta guys within our age. My beta boyfriend is a biology major and spends his weekends at the lab or playing video games. He dislike parties. Her beta boyfriend is going to college and working part time.
I mean, we are doing the best we can with what Susan is advising here. we are restrictive girls who dates betas. Do you guys humble yourself to at least admit that we are doing something right. Now i really have to go to Spring Break.
I was wrong with nice guys…because we are dating nice guys. I am just talking about personal experience of being hitting on by creepy older guys who shamed us for being creep out by their age yet they refused to date women their own age.
@ SW:
Perhaps I’m an outlier, but I actually liked the Elijah/Marnie sex scene. I thought it was hot — until they starting sniping at each other
(“don’t you roll your eyes at me!” “I’m not!”)
Then it became like watching a trainwreck, but a hilarious one! It was clear that it was two people hitting rock bottom and seeking validation by going through the motions. They clearly don’t like each other due to their possessive of Hannah, so the dynamic between them was interesting, to me at least! They called a brief truce, but reality came crashing down. Neither can escape their life and/or who they truly are at their core..
“I was wrong with nice guys…because we are dating nice guys. I am just talking about personal experience of being hitting on by creepy older guys who shamed us for being creep out by their age yet they refused to date women their own age.”
@Josie88
I think you are going in the right direction.
There are many women that don’t date guys in their age group when they are young.
While I think creepy older men with a huge age difference should scale back their expectations. I understand the biological need to date women much younger, especially if you want to have children.
I wonder why Susan blocks certain post and not others? Is she scared that her ideas will not stand up to the facts? I wonder
At the risk of being accused of “white knighting,” that’s unwarranted, Veri. I can tell you from first-hand knowledge that filters are flaky. Wordpress, for instance, will can your comment for too many or inappropriate links, according to it’s own definition of “too many” and “inappropriate,” not the admin’s.
Susan admits to not being a techie, and I’m sure she had better things to do with her time than futzing with a comment filter. Yet, I know she’s already taken the time to do just that. The adjustments may not be to your liking (so far), but they serve the purpose.
As for Susan’s deliberate blocking, it’s never come without good reason and without warning. Her tolerance for certain posters who shall remain nameless (but who’s initials are PJ) is legendary. Stick around for only a little while and I’m sure you’ll find out what’s out of bounds. You’ll find her limits reasonable – that is, you will if *you* are reasonable.
Shut up PJ.
Oh nevermind. Veri-Hata is just VeriSeeker, not PJ.
@Veri-Hata
You are indeed a hata, and that is why I deleted your comment. Plus it was redundant.
I’m always amazed when people take the time to be unpleasant on blogs. I have no interest in allowing you to piss in the punchbowl.
Speaking of Girls, I find it interesting that three of the four are unrestricted (or quite so) and even Shoshonna cheated by making out with the hot doorman.
Interesting to compare with SATC where all four of them are unrestricted. I wonder where the Girls will end up with when it’s all over.
This link says how many the SATC women slept with over 6 seasons:
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_many_guys_has_Samantha_Jones_from_sex_and_the_city_slept_with
Samantha 41 men +1 woman
Charlotte 18 (so much for her “good girl” veneer LOL)
Carrie 18
Miranda 17 in the episodes, confesses 42 to Skippy
@HanSolo
In season 1, Hannah says her N is 2 – Elijah and Adam. Since then, she had the fling with the pharmacist when she went home, with Patrick Wilson and the black guy. Anyone else? If not, her number is now 5 at age 25.
Jessa is clearly a slut.
Marnie is at 2 I believe – Charlie and Booth.
Shoshanna is at 1.
I don’t think you can claim unrestrictedness based on these numbers.
Are you seriously saying that Hannah isn’t unrestricted?
She has sex with four guys during season 2 (what’s that, like a few months in the show?) and I’m not sure what happens in epidose 10. There’s Sandy, then the ONS’s with Laird the Junky, Joshua and Jessica’s 19 y/o step-brother.
So, I think it’s safe to say that Hannah is now clearly unrestricted with 4 in a time-span of likely a few months.
Marnie also had ONS sex, if even just for a moment with Elijah while he had a bf. Or should I say E-bi-jah? So, although she wasn’t cheating she was facilitating his cheating. Also, Marnie kisses Jessa, so some bi-experimentation, even if wasn’t sex. I’m not expert on the show but do you know what Marnie did before Charlie? Was he her first?
So, maybe Marnie isn’t as unrestricted as Hannah or Jessa but she’s displaying some unrestricted behavior.
Shoshonna started out as a virgin but is displaying some unrestricted behavior throughout. In Season 1, ep. 4 she makes out with a guy but he won’t have sex with her because she’s a virgin so she probably would have had he been willing. She has a fling with Ray before they are “dating”. (I’m not shaming her, just pointing out unrestricted behavior.) Then, while dating Ray, she cheats on him with the hot doorman–how far they go we don’t know but, regardless, that’s unrestricted behavior.
Summary:
Jessa–unrestricted
Hannah–unrestricted
Marnie–some unrestricted behavior
Shoshonna–some unrestricted behavior
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